The most prestigious college admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Ivy-Equivalent Schools
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 20th, 2008 2:22 AM Author: Nubile sound barrier university Schools Equal to or Greater than at Least 1 Ivy League School in Every Objective Measure Used by the U.S. News and World Report College Rankings:
Amherst Duke MIT Stanford Williams
Had to be at or better for the following statistical measures:
4.3 – Peer Assessment Score 96% - Average Freshmen Retention Rate 92% - Actual Graduation Rate 60% - % of Classes w/ Fewer Than 20 (06’) 16% - % of Classes w/ 50 or More (’06) 10/1 – Student/faculty Ratio 86% - Full-Time Faculty 1280-1490 - SAT/ACT 25th/75th Percentile (’06) 84% - Freshmen in Top 10% of HS Class 25% - Acceptance Rate 34% - Avg. Alumni Giving Rate
What's interesting is that this actually yields the results that it should. No other school should be considered Ivy equivalent, and please don't tell me about that shithole, specialty school Caltech that shouldn't even be ranked and has like 800 undergrads.
|
 |
Date: July 20th, 2008 12:02 PM Author: Spruce Site Your methodology is pretty fucking retarded because it relies on hard floors while lacking any concern for magnitude above the floor in other areas.
Furthermore, your SAT/ACT measure is entirely unsuable. Is a 1270-1500 (hypothetical) better than a 1280-1490 (your floor)? Do we only pay attention to the 25th? |
|
Date: July 20th, 2008 12:32 PM Author: diverse death wish duke troll (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9992100) |
|
Date: July 20th, 2008 1:07 PM Author: galvanic incel Let me guess: rejected form every ivy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9992141) |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 10:24 AM Author: Buff address stock car The poster's rationale may be suspect, but the conclusion is not.
"Ivy League" is an athletic conference. Several non-Ivies are academically superior, more prestigious, more selective, than several Ivies.
Stanford and MIT are closer to HYP than the rest of the Ivies...under any reasonable definition. Cal Tech and Duke are comparable to if not better than Columbia/Dartmouth/Penn. U Chicago, Northwestern, Hopkins and WUSTL are comparable if not better than Cornell.
This is not a groundbreaking point but it's worth repeating to posters on this board that think that being an Ivy means something more than a top 16 ranking in US News and World Report and a northeastern athletic conference affiliation. |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 3:30 PM Author: French Indian Lodge no doubt
tho id esteem chicago even higher as an academic powerhouse (and berk) - but your point is taken if we're just talking undergrad. |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 5:33 PM Author: galvanic incel being an ivy does mean more than that.
I've spoken to Ivy alumni who say that the Ivy brand gives you an automatic leg up when looking for work. Superficial? Yes. But true, all the same.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's ridiculous when people apply to schools just because of a brand, but the brand prestige reaches beyond idealistic applicants. Employers like it, too (as far as I've heard, anyway). |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 9:43 PM Author: French Indian Lodge hmm no.
no one gives someone from dart, penn, cornell, etc. props over people from duke, mit, stanford, chicago simply because the first three play against each other (poorly) in football.
seriously - where do you get these ideas? |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 11:12 PM Author: galvanic incel Ha, they play each other poorly in football! What wit! Actually, I get these ideas from people in the work force.
Where do you get yours? |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 2:57 PM Author: French Indian Lodge from being in the workforce..
you do know that the ivy league is an athletic conference, right? its not some honor given to the best schools...
edit: i will say that it might be helpful when you meet someone abroad (or heck even in most of the US) who hasnt heard of dart, brown, penn you get to add, 'its an ivy league'. People who do that are, of course, awesome.
The ivy league is a construct that doesnt mean a whole lot outside the northeast, or even within. My friends from the west coast (berk and stanford types) tend to have trouble naming the right 8.
Again, its silly to assert that dart or brown kids will have any edge over stanford, chicago, or duke kids because their school plays yale in basketball. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 4:17 PM Author: galvanic incel Of course the league was founded as an athletic conference. I feel that my point has become a bit convoluted in this argument; I never said that a Brown kid has an edge over a school like Chicago (even though I never said otherwise, either). What I am responding to is the kid above who simply brushed off the league as an athletic conference, saying that it should not be perceived as anything more. You have to admit that, while that may have been the original purpose, the Ivy image has grown prestigious and academically prominent outside of athletics, and this image helps with employment. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 4:23 PM Author: French Indian Lodge my point: it doesnt give students graduating from those schools any edge over students graduating from comparably ranked schools.
edit: and the obsession with 'ivy' tends to be from folks outside of hyp - check out how schools define themselves on the web, for example. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 8:31 PM Author: galvanic incel Did I ever say otherwise?
And I don't think that HYP are free of the IVY obsession. I think everyone in the league likes the label. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 9:40 PM Author: French Indian Lodge did you ever say otherwise? are you kidding?
"I've spoken to Ivy alumni who say that the Ivy brand gives you an automatic leg up when looking for work." |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 11:00 PM Author: galvanic incel You need to work on your argument skills.
Yes, the Ivy brand gives you a leg up, but I never said that it gives more of a boost than other schools like Chicago or Stanford. You made that part up.
Try again. |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 10:01 AM Author: French Indian Lodge nice try. read the whole chain again.
so a dart grad has a leg up over a UMBC grad? Yea, no shit, but it has nothing to do with Dart being ivy league. The duke kid has the same 'leg up' - please explain to me how being ivy league is any different than any other top school. |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 10:43 AM Author: galvanic incel You really aren't getting this, so try to read carefully; I never, ever said that the Ivy league brand will make one more successful than having a diploma from another top school, what I said was the Ivy league brand helps in the employment market. period.
As an employer once said, "Ivy LEague opens doors for jobs...employers snap to attention for a resume with an Ivy League school at the top". He is not saying anything with regard to a school like Duke, but rather talking about the Ivy allure when compared to all other American colleges. The point is, the Ivy bran dis not just athletic, for many people it has bceome more than that.
|
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 11:03 AM Author: French Indian Lodge reread the chain my friend.
edit: let me help
"This is not a groundbreaking point but it's worth repeating to posters on this board that think that being an Ivy means something more than a top 16 ranking in US News and World Report and a northeastern athletic conference affiliation" http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9994697
sferret: "being an ivy does mean more than that" http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9995764
And the answer is still: No, it doesnt.
|
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 1:00 PM Author: galvanic incel Sure it does.
While the Ivy brand may not make the student any more successful later in life than the Duke brand, for example, our culture holds great reverence for the Ivy league idea.
You and I need to clarify what we mean by "mean". I think it affects opinion, you interpret "mean" as boosting socioeconomic status. I'm only talking about people's reactions when you say "Ivy League" as opposed to "Duke". And, yes, there is a huge difference for most people. |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 1:44 PM Author: mewling piazza "our culture holds great reverance for the Ivy league idea."
Really? Great reverance? Hmm...
"And, yes, there is a huge difference for most people."
Huge? Are you sure? I think you're overestimating the extent to which people are impressed by the Ivy label. Ar there really many (any?) companies and firms that will recruit at Penn but not at Duke? Plus, if you have to specify that the school you attended was an Ivy ("I went to Cornell." "Oh, Cornell...nice." "You know--in the Ivy League." "OH WOW!!!! WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO IN THE FIRST PLACE???!!!"), then you are both insecure and a monumental d-bag. |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 2:03 PM Author: galvanic incel Firstly, is there anything strange about the statement "great reverence"?
Secondly, I think it's safe to assume that employers, who handle thousands of out-of-college applicants a year, will know the eight. Yeah, it may be superficial, and I'm not trying to advocate it, but there are preconceptions people draw when they hear the term. I don't think I am overestimating it. Most people in this country don't give nearly as much thought to college and prestige as people on this board do, and I would be willing to wager that many, many more people are familiar with the idea of the Ivy League than any individual top 16. I'm not saying anybody is "better", I'm just talking about public opinion. |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 2:06 PM Author: mewling piazza Yes, "great reverance" is a bit hyperbolic, but you can call it semantics. With all due respect, though, your assertions are pretty presumptuous, IMHO (speaking as someone who's had a variety of work and educational experiences, including being involved in hiring decisions in the NGO world, and has lived on both coasts). Just because somebody "knows the eight" doesn't mean they're automatically more likely to hire someone from Penn or Brown than from Duke. It's safe to say that those who know the eight also know Duke, UChicago, and the like. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#10001924) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 4:55 PM Author: French Indian Lodge dont bother. he doesnt make any sense. he made some arrogant statement at how ivies are superior by virtue of being ivy and is now trying to back peddle. Take a look at his first post in this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#10002530) |
|
Date: July 24th, 2008 12:05 AM Author: mewling piazza To me, it just seems like the typical jaded NYC cocktail party mentality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#10003547) |
|
Date: July 24th, 2008 9:08 AM Author: galvanic incel Subject: ok, I haven't said anything arrogant as of yet, as you would see if you actually read what I'm saying. Rather, you both seem extremely threatened by the topic of the conversation. But if you want arrogance I'll give it a shot.
I think it's amusing that two supposedly working adults come onto this board daily to have a circuitous argument with a teenager. Maybe if you had the jobs you wanted you wouldn't be distracted by the "jaded" NYC cocktail attitude of a kid who, in all honesty, will probably make much more money than either of you, get a job he likes and not be compelled to go onto a board daily while he should be working and put words into young people's mouths (yes, I just implied that you are both old). I would rather be a jaded New Yorker at a cocktail party than be on this board after college. |
|
Date: July 24th, 2008 9:25 AM Author: mewling piazza looks like you're the one with the chip on your shoulder, but allow me to respond:
1. Until this post, I never had a problem with you as a poster, but clearly, as a self-described "teenager," you seem to have some growing up to do to realize that you are not (or should not be) defined by where you went to school. Alumni and recruiting networks should be helpful coming from a school like Dartmouth or Duke or any of the schools that HStudent and I attend/attended, but the further you get from college, the more you realize that your skills and abilities are going to have a greater impact on your professional advancement than the name on your diploma.
When I was 18 and 19 years old and a bright-eyed college freshman/sophomore, I thought I was hot shit too. It's understandable, given the fact that freshman at good schools are constantly told that they were "chosen" or "selected" from "among the best and brightest," etc., etc (and I didn't even go to THAT good a school, so I can only imagine what it's like such a venerable institution as Dartmouth). That will wear off, and you'll grow to look back on college fondly but not as a period of time that somehow defined your role in society.
It seems like you're at the stage where you're beginning to get it (your post below kinda/sorta indicates that, although the insults seem misplaced), but you still have that intellectual "baby fat" that causes you to hope that things like "Ivy League" matter more than they do.
Additionally, it is hardly an insult to be called old. In fact, I find it amusing. |
|
Date: July 24th, 2008 9:32 AM Author: French Indian Lodge i dont think ive ever written this in a post, but LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#10004338) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 6:18 PM Author: galvanic incel right, I agree with your last bit.
I don't understand why you and HStudent don't understand this. Here it is, for the last time: I never claimed that Ivy schools are superior to schools like Duke. I never said it, that was made up by HSTudent.
I'm saying that the Ivy brand (not necessarily the individual schools, but the Ivy brand) catches people's attention, in many situations more so than other equal schools (which is, by it's nature, superficial). Again, I never claimed that Ivy schools are better than other non-ivy equals. HSTudent just wants something to argue about, apparently post-college life is not engaging him enough. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 3:29 AM Author: mind-boggling soggy library keepsake machete Blatant WUSTL troll. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9997329) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 9:23 AM Author: magical filthy corner Well, you probably couldn't get into Caltech, which stands head and shoulders above everyone save for H,P,MIT, Stanford in science, where it matches them toe to toe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9997432) |
Date: July 20th, 2008 12:59 PM Author: sable cuckoldry Theres alot more schools on par with the lower-Ivies (Cornell, Brown, Penn). What are the stats for schools like Swarthmore? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9992131) |
|
Date: July 20th, 2008 4:18 PM Author: milky fragrant bawdyhouse telephone Subject: You Ivy reject You Ivy reject. You too stupid get into Ivy. You bitter that I, a Harvard student, am better than you.
I super smart Asian. I eat bulldogs at Yale. Harvard no have many bulldogs, but Harvard best school in Asia. Asians in Harvard most successful. They rich and powerful. Harvard alumni control China. I want to be like super famous and super rich Chinese Harvard alumni and control wealth of China. |
|
Date: July 20th, 2008 7:16 PM Author: big windowlicker theater Washington & Lee Y'all! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9993171) |
|
Date: July 20th, 2008 9:10 PM Author: multi-colored ticket booth codepig NYU (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9993532) |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 10:51 AM Author: Green Athletic Conference Pistol Subject: Depends which Ivy you're talking about. A different set of schools are comparable to Harvard than to Cornell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9994744) |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 11:05 AM Author: mewling piazza Reed College, of course (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9994776) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 3:42 AM Author: Grizzly passionate kitchen azn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSzsp7mdddY (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9997338) |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 12:51 PM Author: Irate brunch Oxford/Cambridge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9994995) |
|
Date: July 21st, 2008 1:00 PM Author: swollen nowag point Shaddup U (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9995005) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2008 12:31 AM Author: umber rehab Or you could just pick the lowest Ivy's raw score and call every school with a raw score equal to or higher than that score an "Ivy equivalent." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#9996973) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 9:14 PM Author: Bearded Naked Theater Stage Corn Cake Carnegie Mellon and Georgetown and Northwestern are all better than cornell imo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#10003172) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2008 9:26 PM Author: French Indian Lodge as a university, cornell is much better than it gets credit for (on this board). very strong in arts and sciences, law, med, etc. it produces a great deal of scholarship - certainly far more than georgetown.
|
|
Date: July 24th, 2008 8:30 AM Author: mewling piazza Credited with ref to Gtown and Cornell. Excellent undergraduate program, but its faculty is generally far less productive than Cornell's (and it lacks graduate programs in many standard disciplines). CMU is underrated as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=836984&forum_id=1#10004244) |