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I'm starting to think Plato had the right idea
Poast new message in this thread
Date: May 16th, 2013 1:48 AM Author: spruce state nowag With regard to his attack on poetry and art. They are wrapped up so pleasingly that most people mistake them for the truth by which to order your life. Hollywood's influence is insane. Often I watch a film with a message I know if followed would lead the follower to a life of misery, but got damn the movie wraps up the message so nicely with music and timing and everything that if I didn't know better I might go for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23208325) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 1:53 AM Author: mind-boggling hospital Falling Down (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23208348) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 2:01 AM Author: Brass corner mental disorder a prophetic film about the wonders of diversity in California:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=a2YRMixW9u8 |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 2:07 AM Author: zippy flickering hunting ground preventive strike lulzy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23208413) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 7:46 AM Author: smoky gaping gas station yeah that's a pretty credited take
random movies and TV shows often make me pine after girls who's personalities I know aren't compatible with mine
or want to start careers that I know I wouldn't enjoy |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 9:26 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy soul-stirring doctorate milk this is really interesting. have you had success de- or re-programming yourself to be attracted to girls that are more suitable to your happiness? if so how (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23209102) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 2:25 PM Author: smoky gaping gas station well I'm still attracted to them,
I just tell myself to quit being a dumbass, and don't act on those attractions |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 2:07 PM Author: spruce state nowag Yeah same. That shit is so powerful even when you are introspective enough to realize it wouldn't be good for you. Now imagine what it does to all the dumbs who can't come to that realization. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23210435) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:06 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown Please cite passages? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211547) |
Date: May 16th, 2013 2:18 AM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown Yeah dude, Hollywood movies are art. Jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23208489) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 7:43 AM Author: Cyan Frum Rigpig the same principle applies to real art (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23208995) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 2:03 PM Author: spruce state nowag It's just one example. It applies to any fiction, whether books, movies, TV, whatever. Back in Plato's day it was all poetry, namely shit about the "gods", which he believed polluted the minds of citizens and gave them the wrong values, but the concept obviously applies to new forms of fiction. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23210402) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 4:47 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown When such a high percentage of the underlying artwork is evaluated by the size of the audience that will consume it before it is produced the artwork looses its essential characteristic qua art, namely the expression of the artists mind, and becomes something else, namely a commercial product concerned with revenue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211390) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:01 PM Author: stirring depressive set that's kinda gay sounding, dood. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211513) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:02 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown My moniker used to be metaphysics is gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211520) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 2:31 PM Author: Rose church building digit ratio Read Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation, friend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23210605) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 9:08 PM Author: Lime Theatre Gaming Laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23212940) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 4:42 PM Author: emerald narrow-minded market Highly credited. Obviously this is incredibly influential to the adolescent mind, but many adults, particularly women, perpetuate this mistake throughout their life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211349) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:06 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown Interesting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211544) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:06 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown I dunno man I lead my life based on pomo epistemology and I'm happy how it turned out. Currently moving away from nonrealism towards more classical theories of language. will report back |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:45 PM Author: Turquoise rambunctious fanboi "Currently moving away from nonrealism towards more classical theories of language." EXPLAIN how this affects your life in any measurable way |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:55 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown Depends on if you're an epiphenomenalist about knowledge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211823) |
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Date: May 17th, 2013 4:37 AM Author: multi-colored lemon azn I read this the first time as PORNO epistemology and started nodding in deep sympathy at this precise evocation of the deep alienation we experience even in our most intimate areas of life, only to re-read and find it was just gay analytical philosophy trolling. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23215656) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:13 PM Author: chrome seedy sanctuary skinny woman yeah, this explains everyone who does hte "i love law in order" --> lawyer track. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211577) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:19 PM Author: nighttime liquid oxygen regret you don't understand plato, bro. there's 2 things basically every dialogue has: a socratic logical cx type examination of the issue THEN a story/poem about the mythical gods tying into the issue. as delineated in the republic, logic alone is not enough achieve the edios...the thumos (the spirit part of the tripartite soul) aids logic and you cannot have pure logic solely as a means to attaining the truth without a proper use of the thumos to guide the emotions with helping the logos (logic only) to use all 3 parts of the soul to "see" the edios (true form) of the issue at hand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211623) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:21 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown *reads the republic for frosh Phil 100*
*accuses people of not understanding plato* |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:23 PM Author: nighttime liquid oxygen regret lol i translated the entire symposium from attic greek. i read the republic in attic greek with just a liddell-scott at my side (before widespread internet access). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211640) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:58 PM Author: Turquoise rambunctious fanboi (POTUS Josiah Bartlett) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211853) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:58 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown (Old as fuck dude) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211855) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 5:59 PM Author: spruce state nowag what? i'm talking mostly about republic X.
see generally http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-rhetoric/#RepX
Book X starts us off with a reaffirmation of a main deficiency of poets: their products “maim the thought of those who hear them.” And by means of the following schema, this is now connected to a development of the allegation (repeated at 602b6–8) that poets do not know what they are talking about.
Listen and consider. When even the best of us hear Homer or any other of the tragic poets imitating one of the heroes in mourning and making quite an extended speech with lamentation, or, if you like, singing and beating his breast, you know that we enjoy it and that we give ourselves over to following the imitation; suffering along [‘sympaschontes’, a word related to another Greek word, ‘sympatheia’] with the hero in all seriousness, we praise as a good poet the man who most puts us in this state” (605c10-d5). So the danger posed by poetry is great, for it appeals to something to which even the best—the most philosophical—are liable, and induces a dream-like, uncritical state in which we lose ourselves in the emotions in question (above all, in sorrow, grief, anger, resentment).
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Date: May 16th, 2013 6:04 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown I don't see any disdain for what nietzche would call living life as literature here, more a concern that we may forego pragmatic dealings for wholesale poetic idealism (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211906) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 6:08 PM Author: spruce state nowag The poets don't know the originals of (i.e., the truth about) the topics about which they discourse; they appear to be ignorant of that fact; and even worse, just as a trompe-l'oeuil painting can deceive the naïve onlooker into believing that the imitation is the original, so too those who take in poetry believe they are being given truth. Imitation now starts to take on the sense of “counterfeit.”[14] Unequipped to put claims to knowledge to the test, the audience buys into the comprehensive picture of “all arts and all things human that have to do with virtue and vice, and the divine things too” that the poet so persuasively articulates (598b-599a). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2257345&forum_id=2#23211938) |
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Date: May 16th, 2013 6:45 PM Author: vivacious snowy whorehouse clown You might be right nietzche actually echoes this:
Is it not a very funny thing that the most serious philosophers, however anxious they are in other respects for strict certainty, still appeal to poetical sayings in order to give their thoughts force and credibility? and yet it is more dangerous to a truth when the poet assents to it than when he contradicts it! For, as Homer says, "The Poets tell many lies!"
But at the same time reminds us:
What, then, is truth? A mobile army of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms—in short, a sum of human relations which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use seem firm, canonical, and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that this is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins.
And concludes:
There are ages in which the rational man and the intuitive man stand side by side, the one in fear of intuition, the other with scorn for abstraction. The latter is just as irrational as the former is inartistic. They both desire to rule over life: the former, by knowing how to meet his principle needs by means of foresight, prudence, and regularity; the latter, by disregarding these needs and, as an "overjoyed hero," counting as real only that life which has been disguised as illusion and beauty...
The man who is guided by concepts and abstractions only succeeds by such means in warding off misfortune, without ever gaining any happiness for himself from these abstractions. And while he aims for the greatest possible freedom from pain, the intuitive man, standing in the midst of a culture, already reaps from his intuition a harvest of continually inflowing illumination, cheer, and redemption—in addition to obtaining a defense against misfortune. |