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Started NYC Biglaw in September; billed 20 hours so far
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Date: January 26th, 2012 11:47 PM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon Half of the hours came from an all night diligence assignment and the other half was research on SEC regs. Not on any deals. Firm seems pretty slow (nothing to compare it to), but I know some midlevels and first years who are busy. I talked to one partner that I know well from my summer about it, and he suggested that there's not much work to go around and changes are needed if this keeps up a few months into the year.
How fucked? What if I get to March-April and it's still like this? WTF can I do if I get laid off 6 months into the job with no real experience? |
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Date: January 26th, 2012 11:50 PM Author: Chartreuse confused area 20 hours total since September? so like 5 months, 4 hours per month average? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845431) |
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Date: January 26th, 2012 11:50 PM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon of billables, yes. alot of pro bono (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845434) |
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Date: January 26th, 2012 11:51 PM Author: Chartreuse confused area holy shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845441) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:53 PM Author: Racy library nowag Does your firm count the billables during the stub period (between Sept and Dec for first-years)? Or does the official hour counting begin in January and run through Dec? If it’s the latter, then you may be safe through the end of the year even if things don’t significantly pick up. Typically firms will wait at least a year before doing a layoff. But the first-year layoff precedent has been set if work really dries up (e.g., Latham Feb. ‘09) so you never really know.
FWIW, if I were in your shoes, I would brush my resume up and start looking for other opportunities now – apply to postings, talk to other attorneys, etc. You probably don’t have to take the first offer you get if it’s a total shit job but I would strongly consider anything decent. Regardless, watch your Q1 and Q2 billables closely. If they do not significantly improve (to something like 30 - 40 average per week), there is a risk that the firm might stealth you for “performance reasons” at your mid-year review. You do NOT want to wait around for that.
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Date: January 26th, 2012 11:51 PM Author: unhinged ceo hell vault range? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845443) |
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Date: January 26th, 2012 11:53 PM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon V100, not getting more specific (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845457) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:01 AM Author: cocky preventive strike piazza You sound more fucked than a Boalt student out of state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845502) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:05 AM Author: Crusty Foreskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845525) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:03 AM Author: Chartreuse confused area you should probably be doing everything you can to find any work at all outside your group (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845518) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:05 AM Author: Autistic charismatic ticket booth goal in life it's over. you have zero chance of surviving at said firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845524) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:07 AM Author: cocky preventive strike piazza cr. especially if ENJOYING DLA PIPER (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845540) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:05 AM Author: 180 mad-dog skullcap wat? these are the billables that you're RECORDING?
i mean my time gets written down like crazy but i've at least recorded a respectable amount |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:07 AM Author: Chartreuse confused area someone else here gave this advice, but ask around to associates and find out who knows about a big diligence or doc review project (outside your group) and get on that shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19845541) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 2:42 AM Author: Copper irate stead CR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19846256) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:37 AM Author: massive athletic conference Jesus. I was feeling bad about billing 140 in December.
You need to figure out something fast. |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 2:48 AM Author: Curious bisexual senate this is why you don't work in the satellite office of a V75 firm. your life is fucked bro. accept it now and cushion yourself from the crushing blow of getting stealthed next review period. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19846269) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:07 AM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon Main office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19846940) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:12 AM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon Are they really gonna can me as a first year? I haven't even been staffed on anything. I'm not aspie and I've been asking around for work, but there's so little to go around. I'm pretty sure the first years who have work got it through luck and not because of hustling or their reputation.
They wouldn't just layoff midlevels off who actually have exit options as opposed to me who will be fucked and praying i can find a 50k gig? |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:14 AM Author: Autistic charismatic ticket booth goal in life it's mean but i actually lol'd at this poast (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19846963) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:14 AM Author: Bearded Pisswyrm Abode lol brother. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19846967) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:21 AM Author: glittery translucent resort they will absolutely can you. You are dead weight bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19846986) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:27 AM Author: appetizing center toaster *sheds a tear for the poor overpaid first year* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19847002) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 11:35 AM Author: swashbuckling parlour bbw In their minds bro you don't have work and more importantly, you haven't been able to MAKE work. You need to shake some branches until some assignments fall out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19847019) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:12 PM Author: brindle cowardly school cafeteria "They wouldn't just layoff midlevels off who actually have exit options as opposed to me who will be fucked and praying i can find a 50k gig?"
lmao. you must be a flame. do you think the firm gives a shit about you? |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 12:14 PM Author: disturbing box office A midlevel is leaps and bounds more valuable than a 1st year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19847201) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 2:47 PM Author: Racy library nowag Assuming not a flame, start looking for another job ASAP and take almost anything you can get - even if it pays 1/2 of your current salary. You are 100x more employable now (when you have a job) than you will be after they lay you off. Most likely, they will wait until your next performance review and let you go then. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19847896) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 3:13 PM Author: marvelous property CR. Assuming not a flame, you are screwed.
I've never heard of 20 hours per month, let alone over 6+ months.
Go talk to the partners ASAP. You have nothing to lose at this point. Go seek a recruiter. Go talk to the partners. And switch ships ASAP. |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 3:17 PM Author: jade orchestra pit black woman lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848005) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 3:26 PM Author: arousing gold cuckold What do you do all day? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848036) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 4:14 PM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon This is seriously not flame. I've talked to 5 first years today and 3 of them are in the same boat as me. The 2 who had work just got on deals within the last week. Is it a good or bad sign that I'm not alone here? Other than pro bono, I just surf and go to lunches. I try to talk to partners, but j get the feeling that they're getting annoyed because everyone is asking them.
I assume massive layoffs are coming. Do they let first years go during these?
Any advice for job search. Back to mass mailing law school style? How to get in contact with a recruiter?
Not flame, just looking for help |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 4:43 PM Author: glittery translucent resort they absolutely will fire you. It's nothing personal and it's not your fault, but they will show you the door if things don't pick up soon.
Recruiters aren't going to want to talk to you bc you are a first year. But you should try anyways. You should also uses your law school's simplicity and try some mass mailing too. Ever thought about clerking? That could be an option too. |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 4:45 PM Author: Stirring coral institution Weak flame, good lord. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848407) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:14 PM Author: khaki spectacular locus degenerate LOL 180 if this is true. Somehow ITE I believe it's true.
Stupid fucker. Never shld have gone to LS. |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:28 PM Author: Stirring coral institution My slowest month was December, and I was panicking because I billed like 70-80 hours. In midlaw.
This shit didn't happen. |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:27 PM Author: Salmon step-uncle's house I also started in September and haven't billed very much. I've done lots and lots of pro bono, though, and just got an excellent performance review. I also get 2-3 calls/emails from recruiters a day. I will start worrying only if another six months pass and I'm not staffed on anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848619) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:31 PM Author: Seedy laughsome sneaky criminal U got a review as a stub year? Never heard of this before. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848638) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:34 PM Author: Salmon step-uncle's house Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848661) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:33 PM Author: Seedy laughsome sneaky criminal To OP, reach out to recruiters. Try getting ur resume out there. There are few jobs for 1st year laterals, but at least beat the rush. If that means going into a diff practice, then so be it. Being that slow is not good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848653) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:43 PM Author: vibrant shitlib space at $10,000/hr, you're only a bit off the typical pace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848715) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:25 PM Author: multi-colored stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849415) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 5:46 PM Author: Shivering odious fat ankles URM or hot chick? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19848724) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:19 PM Author: Out-of-control thirsty multi-billionaire spot started in sept, close to 1,000 hours billed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849107) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:28 PM Author: galvanic lilac love of her life principal's office i was in this situation once. it did not end well for me. in fact i woud say it pretty much wrecked my legal career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849161) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:41 PM Author: khaki spectacular locus degenerate This fucker can't call recruiters and hope they can help. He has no fucking experience. Other firms will obviously know that he is about to get shit canned from his current firm.
Even if she is a blond swimsuit model with magna from HLS she has no fucking chance.
Just milk it as long as possible, take the severance, and move on. It is over nigga... sorry |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:43 PM Author: Sapphire dead faggotry nah. he could just say he hates the people or something like that....I think he could definitely make up a plausible reason for leaving that doesn't involve getting shit canned. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849228) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:55 PM Author: galvanic lilac love of her life principal's office that's probably an even riskier approach than saying in interviews he doesn't have any work at his current job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849300) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:53 PM Author: galvanic lilac love of her life principal's office he has to just ride it out for 2 years or more if he can. reading this thread pisses me off. firms without steady deal flow should not be hiring tons of first years. it does nobody any good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849285) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:54 PM Author: Razzmatazz yellow theater The time to address this was last October. Start making other plans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849289) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:54 PM Author: Orange Volcanic Crater i am aware of someone in a similar situation several years ago who changed groups within their own firm as a 1st year at a v100, into a group that was busy. obviously not their first choice group, but preserving job is more important than preserving practice area of interest in your situation. the person i am thinking of is still at the firm and doing well in the area they shifted into. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849293) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 7:56 PM Author: Orange Volcanic Crater many of you are a little too dramatic. if others are in OP's situation, it's not his fault. i would be surprised if they laid people off before next annual reviews, which will not be until early 2013. firms do not want to be out there as doing "layoffs" these days when other firms are not. if he gets busy in the next 6-8 months he'll be fine. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849309) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:14 PM Author: Onyx deranged national national security agency As someone who was told that it wasn't my fault when I got laid off, I can tell you that it ultimately makes zero actual difference whose fault it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849379) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:26 PM Author: multi-colored stage He's saying that it's bad PR for the firm to lay off first years without work ITR(ecovering)E. Take that for what you want (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849424) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:28 PM Author: Onyx deranged national national security agency Eh, it still happens. If they really want to be assholes they'll blame you and say it was for performance reasons. The era of keeping around dead weight because of reputation or helping them land on their feet is over. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849434) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 9:16 PM Author: Orange Volcanic Crater agreed that "fault" doesn't matter when a firm decides to do layoffs.
however, OP has seemingly not done anything wrong to put himself in the "no work" situation, given that a number of OP's peers are in the same boat. i don't think that firms are looking to push 1st years out the door 6 months into their careers b/c the economy is somewhat better and the PR issue would be substantial. as such, i think OP has a good 6-8 months more to get busy before OP's job is in jeopardy |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 9:20 PM Author: Onyx deranged national national security agency I don't think there are any PR issues. They will just stealth. In terms of the economy getting better - either they have work or they don't. the fact that it has been months and this guy has gotten about 0 work indicates that his future isn't bright. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849706) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:01 PM Author: trip blathering field Switch to litigation immediately, start reviewing docs like crazy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849325) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:18 PM Author: bright soul-stirring gaping alpha explain to me why someone would hire you if there is no work to be done? then explain why they would blame you and fire you for this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849398) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:26 PM Author: galvanic lilac love of her life principal's office law firm hiring is done like 2 years out.
they won't blame him for not having work but they will fire him anyway to cut expenses and increase profits, as any rational company would do. |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 8:28 PM Author: Onyx deranged national national security agency tcr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849439) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 9:00 PM Author: Motley Kitchen Striped Hyena horribly pathetic flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849597) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 9:11 PM Author: Orange Volcanic Crater i'm not sure this is a flame. there is not enough big ticket business out there to keep all groups in all v100ish firms viable. firms will continue to merge and disappear. it's not hard to believe that OP is a 1st year in a slow group. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849651) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 9:16 PM Author: opaque corner puppy Inventive flame, I'll give you that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19849681) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 9:27 PM Author: metal vivacious newt I was in this situation. My worked picked up around March, but I still finished year one (i.e. first full years) with like ~1000 hours. My review six months in was fine, my one year review was basically like if things dont improve, you might want to start looking elsewhere (still there, was class of 2010).
I would see what they say at your review (is it six months or a year?). Unlikely they will can you before, and you may get some work. In the meantime keep up with the probono (but not so much that you can't do it if real work comes along). Every day you stick it out there is another day's worth of "experience" you have to find a different jerb. |
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Date: January 29th, 2012 10:22 PM Author: Aromatic home I'm confused. If you were class of 2010, wouldn't 2011 have been your first full year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19861796) |
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Date: January 29th, 2012 10:33 PM Author: metal vivacious newt yes, that's right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19861898) |
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Date: January 29th, 2012 10:36 PM Author: Aromatic home Got it, has the outlook improved at all? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19861918) |
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Date: January 27th, 2012 10:13 PM Author: Bossy Voyeur It's not August 2011 anymore. You should be busy. If not, either you or your entire firm are in trouble. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19850014) |
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Date: January 29th, 2012 10:17 PM Author: Aromatic home I know a few people in this situation at my firm or at other firms. I wouldn't bother trying to contact recruiters now. Lateraling after <1 year is really tough and you have a much better shot at keeping your job. Firms aren't really laying lawyers off at all right now, let alone first years. I doubt your firm will unless absolutely necessary for their financial stability. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1859174&forum_id=2#19861750) |
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Date: March 3rd, 2012 2:38 PM Author: cracking house-broken tanning salon billed 65 hours in feb (mostly research and diligence). still no signs of firm stealthing people and corp seems to be picking up a little with more first years getting busy.
review is in june, chances i stick around? i think ill get decent-good reviews from the 3 or 4 midlevels ive worked with so far. |
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Date: March 3rd, 2012 2:45 PM Author: Chartreuse confused area unless your firm is shit pure shit, they're not going to fire you after not even a year because the whole group is slow. firms can't hire very quickly, and the economy is starting to do well. people expect things to pick up, and they won't slim down the group now just to try to save a little bit of money for over the next 6-12 months, given the costs and time needed for recruiting when they need to have more people again.
i would talk to that partner again though, he'll probably say the same thing i just did. the only way to get fired after a year is to do bad work. you don't get fired for not hitting your hours as a first year.
you really should try to get on a deal or two though. keep talking to midlevels and remind them how available you are, and try to talk to them about if they know of anything upcoming. |