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Proposal to replace HYS and CCN with HYSC and CNPM

More appropriate considering the gap between Stanford and Co...
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
M should never be in the same category with CN it belongs...
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
Good point. HYSC and CNP are more appropriate. Basically spl...
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
It should be (and is): Y SH CCN MVBP DC GN
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
actually, it's
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
Correct
marvelous up-to-no-good kitchen
  09/29/04
once again you are wrong wrong wrong.
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
saying wrong three times doesn't help your cause
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
red-herring
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
Nah
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
HSC (CLS or U-C?) Penn is most certainly in the MVB group...
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
C in HSC is Columbia. If Penn belongs in MVB then so does...
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
C should never be in the same class as h. c is full of h re...
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
H is full of Y rejects and S is full of H and Y rejects.
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
I think it's easier to get into H than S, so I don't think y...
grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting
  09/29/04
that's why Y is in its own category S, however, is not fu...
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
I'll bet Y has S rejects, though.
grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting
  09/29/04
I'm sure y has some s and h rejects, but probably not many.
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
I think it's probably full of S rejects, not necessarily H r...
grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting
  09/29/04
GTO you know I love Penn, but U-C is in the class with NYU a...
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
IMO Stanford and Columbia are more similar than Columbia and...
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
see my question below
grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting
  09/29/04
based on?
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
are columbia and nyu that different?
Vigorous brass becky chapel
  09/29/04
they are identical in every way
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
they sure dont seem different enough to me to group them sep...
Vigorous brass becky chapel
  09/29/04
Except that Columbia wins the common admit game by a large m...
Ocher concupiscible area
  09/29/04
What school do you go to?
grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting
  09/29/04
where are the stats to support this claim?
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
what matters is what employers, not students, think, IMO
Vigorous brass becky chapel
  09/29/04
That's actually false. NYU wins the common admit battle by ...
Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry
  09/29/04
just out of curiousity, how do you know?
nofapping rigor headpube
  09/29/04
I don't think either really beats the other, or that would b...
black nibblets
  10/02/04
yes, they're different. columbia has had a long history of ...
Contagious orchestra pit toilet seat
  09/29/04
Isn't it harder to get into the holy trinity than into Colum...
grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting
  09/29/04
H/Y (Y has "slightly" better ls, but h tops to all...
Cheese-eating geriatric location
  09/29/04
correct
Stimulating Stag Film Degenerate
  09/29/04
The gap between Stanford and Columbia is huge. And NYU is o...
Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry
  09/29/04
"The gap between Stanford and Columbia is huge." ...
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  09/29/04
Just to add fuel to the flames: If you go by the USNWR re...
mewling low-t university
  09/29/04
yeah, those rep surveys are crap tho lets just go by medi...
Odious stage sweet tailpipe
  09/29/04
I guess it depends on what you care about. I might note, by...
mewling low-t university
  09/29/04
Who would care about an unscientific and completely unreliab...
Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry
  09/29/04
They are certainly imperfect surveys in many ways. But &q...
mewling low-t university
  09/29/04
like this makes a fuck of a difference to anybody. I thin...
Dashing turquoise electric furnace
  09/29/04
splitting a school into halves is ingenious. congratulation...
Aromatic chocolate business firm
  09/29/04
if you can't see the sarcasm inherent in my post, then that'...
Dashing turquoise electric furnace
  09/29/04
see my edit. i misworded and misinterpreted.
Aromatic chocolate business firm
  09/29/04
no problem. Perhaps N could be sliced up into 1/3rds, or ...
Dashing turquoise electric furnace
  09/29/04
you're on to something here. all schools should be split in...
Aromatic chocolate business firm
  09/29/04
so that if you finish in the bottom 10% at NYU, part of your...
Dashing turquoise electric furnace
  09/29/04
Can't you fucking morons find something more interesting to ...
Aromatic chocolate business firm
  09/29/04
Bingo!
Dashing turquoise electric furnace
  09/29/04
...
Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry
  09/29/04
Y H/S Everyone else.
puce locale
  09/29/04
typical of xoxo rankings...
diverse dopamine
  09/30/04
Onizuka, you're the prototypical, aggressively mediocre Penn...
Beady-eyed bearded dragon
  10/01/04
Please learn to use the "reply" function before yo...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
Good rejoinder.
Beady-eyed bearded dragon
  10/02/04
Thanks. I see you're catching on.
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
I have to say that GTO needs to calm down with the trolling....
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  10/02/04
He's an excitable kid.
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
both of them are.
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  10/02/04
*high five*
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
Wow, you're a fucking stooge. The only way to analyze it ...
sable regret psychic
  10/02/04
In academic hiring Penn is not even be in the same category ...
sable regret psychic
  10/02/04
In regular hiring M is not even in the same category as PV (...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
indeed.
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  10/02/04
Michigan definitely has more prestige than any school outsid...
Beady-eyed bearded dragon
  10/02/04
"Michigan definitely has more prestige than any school ...
Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry
  10/02/04
Michigan's great young academics are few and far between. I ...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
Actually, I think you're right. Also, Penn has made a big j...
Beady-eyed bearded dragon
  10/02/04
Also, I'm hoping that the introduction of the Levy scholarsh...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
Michigan also has 130 more students per class. If Penn ha...
sable regret psychic
  10/02/04
it seems at Michigan you have to worry about getting a job f...
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  10/02/04
Also, at the MVP level, I don't think the difference between...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
I suspect intuitively that you are right.
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  10/02/04
You might find this illustrative. http://lsolum.blogspot....
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
WBA, your point about academic placement is absurd. Chicago...
Beady-eyed bearded dragon
  10/02/04
Michigan will live on its reputation at least another 20 yea...
sable regret psychic
  10/02/04
on what reputation? It is widely considered a Top 10 as o...
talented chest-beating meetinghouse
  10/02/04
However, in the USNWR reputation surveys, Michigan consisten...
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
"on what reputation?" It's Top 10 reputation.
Zombie-like haunted graveyard
  10/02/04
I assume you mean Frantz and Milnikel. Milnikel graduate...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
I suspect the other one is actually Adam Cox, who made the r...
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
You could be right. I'm not that familiar with the young...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
She's not tenure-track, however.
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
Shit, you're right. My mistake.
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
Oh, and as an aside, graduating summa or magna, having an ed...
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
Certainly not, but I don't think one would be noticeably *le...
Unhinged massive new version
  10/02/04
I'm not sure you can distinguish "personal factors"...
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
One more thing Penn has 257 students and manages 3.4/3.8 ...
sable regret psychic
  10/02/04
Your claim would be stronger if Penn had a larger class. ...
Razzmatazz Slate Messiness Pocket Flask
  10/02/04
Obviously, though, the goal of going to law school is to bui...
mewling low-t university
  10/02/04
Any ranking scheme, online or not, that purports to rank Y a...
pearl french chef codepig
  10/02/04


Poast new message in this thread





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:12 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area

More appropriate considering the gap between Stanford and Columbia is tiny and that the gap between Chicago and Penn/Michigan is even tinier.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408484)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:13 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

M should never be in the same category with CN

it belongs in the bvcndg crowd.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408491)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:14 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area

Good point. HYSC and CNP are more appropriate. Basically splitting the top 14 down the middle.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408495)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:15 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

It should be (and is):

Y

SH

CCN

MVBP

DC

GN

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408499)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:16 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe
Subject: actually, it's

y

hs

ccn

the rest

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408503)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:17 PM
Author: marvelous up-to-no-good kitchen

Correct

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408508)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:17 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

once again you are wrong wrong wrong.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408510)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:19 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

saying wrong three times doesn't help your cause

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408518)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:22 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

red-herring

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408544)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:17 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area
Subject: Nah

It's:

Y

HSC

CNP

MVB

DC

GN

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408509)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:18 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

HSC (CLS or U-C?)

Penn is most certainly in the MVB group.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408514)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:19 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area

C in HSC is Columbia.

If Penn belongs in MVB then so does Chicago.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408517)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:19 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

C should never be in the same class as h. c is full of h rejects.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408523)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:21 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area

H is full of Y rejects and S is full of H and Y rejects.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408536)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:23 PM
Author: grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting

I think it's easier to get into H than S, so I don't think you can make this statement as a generalization.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408551)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:24 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

that's why Y is in its own category

S, however, is not full of h rejects.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408557)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:25 PM
Author: grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting

I'll bet Y has S rejects, though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408567)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:26 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

I'm sure y has some s and h rejects, but probably not many.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408572)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:28 PM
Author: grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting

I think it's probably full of S rejects, not necessarily H rejects. S has just as small a class as Y. When you get to that level of selectivity, it's random. If there are any geographic factors to the admissions decision, even if miniscule, it's bound to cause S to reject some candidates that Y would accept, and vice versa.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408585)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:21 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

GTO you know I love Penn, but U-C is in the class with NYU and CLS (who are dominated by HYS, esp Y). Penn with all due respect while a clear top 10 (and a favorite of mine) is edged by Chicago. There is no reason or evidence to believe otherwise.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408534)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:22 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area

IMO Stanford and Columbia are more similar than Columbia and Chicago. I think Chicago is definitely in the same class as NYU but Chicago and NYU have more in common with Penn than they do Columbia.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408543)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:24 PM
Author: grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting

see my question below

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408554)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:24 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

based on?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408559)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:20 PM
Author: Vigorous brass becky chapel

are columbia and nyu that different?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408525)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:20 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

they are identical in every way

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408531)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:21 PM
Author: Vigorous brass becky chapel

they sure dont seem different enough to me to group them separately

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408538)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:24 PM
Author: Ocher concupiscible area

Except that Columbia wins the common admit game by a large margin. For most people NYU is the second choice school.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408556)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:24 PM
Author: grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting

What school do you go to?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408560)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:25 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

where are the stats to support this claim?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408564)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:25 PM
Author: Vigorous brass becky chapel

what matters is what employers, not students, think, IMO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408566)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:34 PM
Author: Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry

That's actually false. NYU wins the common admit battle by a substantial margin.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408612)





Date: September 29th, 2004 7:08 PM
Author: nofapping rigor headpube

just out of curiousity, how do you know?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1411025)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:24 AM
Author: black nibblets

I don't think either really beats the other, or that would be reflected in the GPA/LSAT numbers. I think it's ridiculous to make a distinction between schools whose students are indistinguishable.

The measure of a school is the talent it can attract.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423748)





Date: September 29th, 2004 7:35 PM
Author: Contagious orchestra pit toilet seat

yes, they're different. columbia has had a long history of being a T5. NYU gamed the rankings recently. more successful columbia grads out in firms, businesses, and courts than nyu grads.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1411209)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:22 PM
Author: grizzly soul-stirring yarmulke famous landscape painting

Isn't it harder to get into the holy trinity than into Columbia? I think this is the reason it's HYS CCN. The admissions profiles for HYS are all like, you "must" have superior academic achievements and be in the top 5% in terms of both GPA and LSAT. Columbia's (and probably NYU and CHic) are more like, we look for diversity and beyond the numbers so you have a chance even if you get dinged from HYS. That's my perception, anyway.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408541)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:25 PM
Author: Cheese-eating geriatric location

H/Y (Y has "slightly" better ls, but h tops to all people outside law)

S

CCN

MVBP

CD

GN



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408562)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:27 PM
Author: Stimulating Stag Film Degenerate

correct

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408579)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:35 PM
Author: Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry

The gap between Stanford and Columbia is huge. And NYU is only slightly better than Columbia.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408617)





Date: September 29th, 2004 1:36 PM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

"The gap between Stanford and Columbia is huge."

With you so far...

"And NYU is only slightly better than Columbia"

What a crock of shit!!!! The two schools couldn't be any more comprable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1409012)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:48 PM
Author: mewling low-t university

Just to add fuel to the flames:

If you go by the USNWR reputation surveys, it should be something like:

HSY CC M BNV P.

And it has been that way for a long time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408685)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:49 PM
Author: Odious stage sweet tailpipe

yeah, those rep surveys are crap tho

lets just go by median lsat

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408693)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:51 PM
Author: mewling low-t university

I guess it depends on what you care about. I might note, by the way, that median LSAT is a particularly tough category for distinguishing top schools, since the differences tend to be trivial.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408710)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:52 PM
Author: Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry

Who would care about an unscientific and completely unreliable survey?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408722)





Date: September 29th, 2004 1:05 PM
Author: mewling low-t university

They are certainly imperfect surveys in many ways.

But "completely unreliable" is an overstatement, particularly considering their stability over time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408809)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:54 PM
Author: Dashing turquoise electric furnace

like this makes a fuck of a difference to anybody.

I think N should be sliced in half, so it would be

HYSCC1/2N and 1/2NMP and the rest.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408735)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:57 PM
Author: Aromatic chocolate business firm

splitting a school into halves is ingenious. congratulations on outdoing all the other idiotic rankings people have posted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408766)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:58 PM
Author: Dashing turquoise electric furnace

if you can't see the sarcasm inherent in my post, then that's your problem.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408773)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:59 PM
Author: Aromatic chocolate business firm

see my edit. i misworded and misinterpreted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408778)





Date: September 29th, 2004 1:01 PM
Author: Dashing turquoise electric furnace

no problem.

Perhaps N could be sliced up into 1/3rds, or even quarters if necessary to make people feel better about the prestige level of their school grouping in the top 14.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408787)





Date: September 29th, 2004 1:03 PM
Author: Aromatic chocolate business firm

you're on to something here. all schools should be split into fractions, and then weighted to various prestige levels.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408798)





Date: September 29th, 2004 1:08 PM
Author: Dashing turquoise electric furnace

so that if you finish in the bottom 10% at NYU, part of your diploma will actually say University of Michigan Law School on it, so as to show that you don't really deserve all of the 'prestige' that goes along with an NYU degree.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408818)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:56 PM
Author: Aromatic chocolate business firm

Can't you fucking morons find something more interesting to argue about?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408745)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:56 PM
Author: Dashing turquoise electric furnace

Bingo!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408758)





Date: September 29th, 2004 12:57 PM
Author: Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry

...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1408764)





Date: September 29th, 2004 7:02 PM
Author: puce locale

Y

H/S

Everyone else.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1410987)





Date: September 30th, 2004 5:42 AM
Author: diverse dopamine
Subject: typical of xoxo rankings...

really it is

My school

the others (i.e. yours)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1413582)





Date: October 1st, 2004 11:46 PM
Author: Beady-eyed bearded dragon

Onizuka, you're the prototypical, aggressively mediocre Penn Law toolbox. You offer no justification as to why Penn is close to Chicago or NYU. Your faculty doesn't hold a card to Chicago's (or Columbia's, NYU's, or even Michigan's). The legal community certainly doesn't think Penn is comparable with said institutions. Your school would rather do yield protection and compete against Fordham for applicants (probably you) than to legitimately compete for the top students.

Also, how many Supreme Court clerks do you have this term? Here's some reading material for you as you enjoy your overhyped garbage hole:

Supreme Court Clerks in 04-05

1. Harvard (9 clerks)

2. Chicago (7 clerks)

3. Yale (5 clerks)

4. Stanford (4 clerks)

5. NYU (3 clerks)

6. Virginia (2 clerks)

7. Northwestern, Michigan, Columbia, UCLA, Boston College (1 each)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423579)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:04 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Please learn to use the "reply" function before you argue.

Thank you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423646)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:05 AM
Author: Beady-eyed bearded dragon

Good rejoinder.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423651)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:07 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Thanks. I see you're catching on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423657)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:09 AM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

I have to say that GTO needs to calm down with the trolling. He is getting to be almost as bad as Edgar "The NYU jackass" Martinez.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423667)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:10 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

He's an excitable kid.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423670)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:12 AM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

both of them are.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423681)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:12 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

*high five*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423685)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:39 AM
Author: sable regret psychic

Wow, you're a fucking stooge.

The only way to analyze it is hiring prospects.

Y

HS

CCN

MVP

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423836)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:40 AM
Author: sable regret psychic

In academic hiring Penn is not even be in the same category as MV.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423844)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:41 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

In regular hiring M is not even in the same category as PV (judging by the anecdotal evidence in MFS's thread).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423849)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:43 AM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

indeed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423854)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:52 AM
Author: Beady-eyed bearded dragon

Michigan definitely has more prestige than any school outside the big six. Outside of NYC, Michigan is still considered to be better than NYU (probably fallaciously so, but whatever). Also, Michigan still produces great young academics, better than NYU, Columbia, or UVA, and miles ahead of Penn. If you're from Penn and on the academia market, your options are restricted to places like Temple and the Appalachian School of Law.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423895)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:53 AM
Author: Exhilarant Overrated Private Investor Dingle Berry

"Michigan definitely has more prestige than any school outside the big six. Outside of NYC, Michigan is still considered to be better than NYU "

Ummm . . . no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423905)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:56 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Michigan's great young academics are few and far between. I suspect that the academic market is very much an individualized process, and that the difference between having Penn, Michigan, or UVA on your diploma will be practically irrelevant.

Also, from a purely personal standpoint, I'd rather teach at a TTT in a nice area than at a top school. Less work and pressure that way.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423920)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:03 AM
Author: Beady-eyed bearded dragon

Actually, I think you're right. Also, Penn has made a big jump in selectivity recently, so you should have more promising law professor candidates. Sorry for the hostility earlier. :-)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423964)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:15 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Also, I'm hoping that the introduction of the Levy scholarship will improve Penn's luck on the academic market. Giving students the opportunity to work closely with faculty will (hopefully) make them more competitive for academic positions.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424036)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:52 AM
Author: sable regret psychic

Michigan also has 130 more students per class.

If Penn had a class size equal to Columbia or NYU, it would probably be competing with GULC right now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423896)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:44 AM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

it seems at Michigan you have to worry about getting a job full stop.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423858)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:47 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Also, at the MVP level, I don't think the difference between those three schools will have any real impact on one's academic job opportunities.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423870)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:49 AM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

I suspect intuitively that you are right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423884)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:53 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

You might find this illustrative.

http://lsolum.blogspot.com/archives/2004_07_01_lsolum_archive.html#108912594144211701

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423901)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:56 AM
Author: Beady-eyed bearded dragon

WBA, your point about academic placement is absurd. Chicago just hired two great Michigan grads, both of whom were among the top catches in the market. What Penn grads do you see out there?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423923)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:58 AM
Author: sable regret psychic

Michigan will live on its reputation at least another 20 years.

But its headed downhill nevertheless.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423937)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:59 AM
Author: talented chest-beating meetinghouse

on what reputation?

It is widely considered a Top 10 as opposed to the Top 5 it once was.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423941)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:09 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

However, in the USNWR reputation surveys, Michigan consistently ranks ahead of all the schools in the top 10 but the top 5. In other words, it is consistently #6.

It is also #6 in Leiter's SCOTUS clerkship rankings, and #7 (after Boalt) in Solum's Top 18 Law School hiring rankings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423999)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:12 AM
Author: Zombie-like haunted graveyard

"on what reputation?"

It's Top 10 reputation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424021)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:11 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

I assume you mean Frantz and Milnikel.

Milnikel graduated magna cum laude from Michigan, was managing editor of the LR, and clerked on the First Circuit COA.

Frantz graduated summa cum laude, was an articles editor on the LR, clerked for Tatel on CADC and O'Connor at SCOTUS, and was a Rhodes scholar.

Both were full Darrow recipients.

I tend to think that either one would have been competitive on the academic job market if they had JDs from Penn or UVA instead of Michigan. Basically, I think they got that job because of their individual resumes, and not based on the name on their degree.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424016)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:15 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

I suspect the other one is actually Adam Cox, who made the rare (and perhaps unprecedented) transition from being a Bigelow Instructor to getting hired as a tenure-track professor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424035)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:18 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

You could be right.

I'm not that familiar with the young faculty at Chicago. I knew Frantz went to Mich, but then I just started looking through names until I found another one who fit. Milnikel made sense.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424042)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:19 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

She's not tenure-track, however.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424050)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:21 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Shit, you're right.

My mistake.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424060)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:18 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

Oh, and as an aside, graduating summa or magna, having an editorial board position on LR, and clerking on a top circuit does not make one automatic for a top professorship.

But nonetheless, Frantz (who of course added a SCOTUS clerkship) was a widely-acknowledged All Star candidate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424045)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:20 AM
Author: Unhinged massive new version

Certainly not, but I don't think one would be noticeably *less* competitive if one had a Penn or UVA JD instead of a Michigan one. I'd imagine that personal factors would greatly overshadow any marginal reputational advantage that Michigan might still retain in academia.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424057)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 1:25 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

I'm not sure you can distinguish "personal factors" from, say, a better alum network.

Anyway, Michigan places significantly more people in tenure-track positions than UVA, which in turn places more than Penn.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings02/tenure.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424087)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 12:48 AM
Author: sable regret psychic

One more thing

Penn has 257 students and manages 3.4/3.8 166/171

NYU has 441 students and manages a 3.6/3.9 167/172

Thus, while NYU has 110 students with a 172+, Penn has only 64 with a 171+

Thus, NYU beats Penn over the ass in student LSAT quality, even while Penn acts as LSAT whores (as evidenced by their completely shitty 25 percentile GPA)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1423880)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 8:52 AM
Author: Razzmatazz Slate Messiness Pocket Flask

Your claim would be stronger if Penn had a larger class.

But generally I have no illusions of superiority to NYU.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424664)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 8:56 AM
Author: mewling low-t university

Obviously, though, the goal of going to law school is to build the biggest possible army of cyborg lawyers using the brains of your classmates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1424665)





Date: October 2nd, 2004 4:45 PM
Author: pearl french chef codepig

Any ranking scheme, online or not, that purports to rank Y as something other than the exclusive top school in the Nation, loses any and all credibility.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=88227&forum_id=2#1425855)