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BIGLAW mid-level associate in HK, taking questions...
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:36 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask ...before I go to sleep.
Feel free to ask about the job, how to lateral out here, the city in general, expat life, the dating scene and so on. |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:37 AM Author: Smoky Multi-colored Property Kitty are you white?
what's the dating scene like for young, professional white men? |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:43 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I am white.
Dating/hookup/party scene is EXCELLENT. If you like Asian women, there are plenty of hot, well-educated, intelligent and interesting Asian women who went to school in the West. If you like more "local" girls, you can find those as well.
Basically, the dating scene is similar to college - lots of parties, some cliquishness, some gossip - except everyone has money and is presumably no longer a virgin. People tend to be of the well-educated, successful and career-minded type. If you're looking for a laid-back woman who doesn't have much career direction, you probably won't find her here. All of the women I know who fall under that category moved here to follow a significant other. Most women I know are quite aspirational/ambitious and like to date and hook up with similar men. Surprisingly, they are all a lot of fun and the percentage of shrewbeasts to cool girls isn't noticeably higher than that amongst women in general.
If you are only into blonde CGWBTs, you'll find some here as well. A lot of Aussies come to work in HK and plenty of these girls fall under the CGWBT variety and are blonde, but most of these girls will have jobs in law or finance (or an industry that supports law or finance, such as headhunting or marketing). |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:37 PM Author: Puce set Damn Aussies taking my jerbs :P (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465148) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:45 PM Author: snowy state DERGUB DEEEEEWWW!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465217) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:37 AM Author: boyish elastic band goyim How is the boating scene? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461064) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:45 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Awesome. A popular summer activity (and when I say "summer", I mean the time period from April to November) is to go "junking". A junk is a traditional Asian boat, but now the term "junk" refers to any kind of party boat.
Basically you either rent or borrow someone's boat, take it out to one of the outlying islands where there's a nice secluded beach, and party all day with unlimited alcohol. You can't ever do this in the West - laws against boozing heavily on boats would be too strict. The water out in the outlying islands is pretty clean and sometimes on a very clear day you feel like you're in the Med or Thailand. |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:39 AM Author: trip national security agency language skills? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461069) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:44 AM Author: talented onyx church building how much of these do you need? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461093) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:46 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I have none. Fortunately I made the move out here in 2007 when you didn't need language skills to land a good job if you had solid credentials and the right personality fit.
Now you pretty much need either Mandarin or Korean to get out here before 2010. I suspect this will change as firms get busier and busier. |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:51 AM Author: trip national security agency yeah, I had the opportunity to do so without language skills in 2007 and I didn't take it b/c I wasn't ready at the time. Now that I am ready there is absolutely no change without fluency. Hope it does change soon. So you still think it will change? Do people in your office acknowledge that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461117) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:53 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Things won't be back to 2007 levels for quite some time, but there are probably going to be some positions open here and there for people without language fluency. Positions basically group themselves into two categories: Mandarin Preferred and Mandarin Required.
I'd say by mid 2010 things might open up for non-Mandarin speakers with otherwise top credentials (T14, V20). |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:55 AM Author: trip national security agency yeah. I have those credentials. I hope I can hold on until 2010. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461131) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 11:57 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask What do you mean by "hold on"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461148) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 1:38 PM Author: trip national security agency last at my job. I am a midlevel and have been looking at midlaw opportunities, which would probably preclude a move to HK. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461702) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:32 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask You're right about that - it's exceedingly hard to find a position out here if you're a layoff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465086) |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 5:28 AM Author: dashing pozpig chapel Why are you such a weak ass bitch nigger? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492697) |
Date: August 9th, 2009 11:56 AM Author: adventurous locus trump supporter i want to fuck your asshole so badly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12461142) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:35 PM Author: Puce set You have to pay your US fed taxes I assume? Hong Kong taxes as well? Are you able to mask large portions of your income into expenses to avoid US taxes? (of course feel free to not answer something possibly outing)
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:41 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask You have to pay both US fed and HK taxes, but you can deduct (or take as a tax credit, depending on circumstances) the latter from the former.
The first US$85k that you make is not considered taxable income by the U.S. government. For instance, if you're a U.S. citizen who has a job out here doing, say, HR and your salary is $90k, only $5k of that would be considered taxable income by the U.S. federal government assuming you were living overseas for the entire year (they adjust the haircut amount pro rata for how long you've been overseas, i.e. if you spent half a year overseas, then the cutoff would be only half of $85k). You'd still have to pay HK taxes, which are only 15%. |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:44 PM Author: Puce set Do they tax you marginally at the rate of your total gross or do they consider only income past $85k/yr?
Like they tax a $145k/yr person the same as a domestic $60k/yr person?
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Date: August 9th, 2009 10:02 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I know what you're asking, but I don't know the answer. I think they only consider income past $85k/year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465382) |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 2:32 AM Author: mind-boggling red business firm cumskin Foreign income is now taxed at marginal rate of total -- it used to be the other way but it was changed a couple years back. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12476559) |
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Date: August 10th, 2009 9:54 PM Author: Ocher adulterous digit ratio Don't forget the housing allowance, which is massive in HK. Basically, you can also deduct your rent up to a certain amount. That amount varies by city. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12473692) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:40 PM Author: scarlet confused whorehouse boltzmann filthy asian fetish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465178) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:42 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I actually prefer white or hapa girls. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465191) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:43 PM Author: out-of-control personal credit line generalized bond How are the exit opportunities for senior corporate associates in HK who are good but not quite partner material? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465200) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:46 PM Author: out-of-control personal credit line generalized bond What is the current expat housing allowance at most good firms? I heard $60-80K per year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12465228) |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 9:56 PM Author: Puce set That would be pretty substantive for someone without language skills (read relatively replaceable).
Not saying some firms don't offer that much, I would just be very surprised ITE. |
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Date: August 9th, 2009 10:03 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask $60-$80k/year, depending on whether you're single or married and how many kids you have. Singles tend to get around $60-$65k. Marrieds tend to get $80+. I hear that expat packages in Tokyo are significantly higher, for what it's worth.
You get the expat package regardless of whether you're coming over with language skills. |
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Date: August 10th, 2009 9:37 PM Author: Puce set Cool... pretty stellar gig. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12473500) |
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Date: August 10th, 2009 9:35 PM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth roommate When is last call. Do all westerners hang out at expat bars or what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12473487) |
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Date: August 10th, 2009 9:55 PM Author: Drab center there's no such thing in asian countries. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12473706) |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 2:37 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask There is no "last call" in certain bars. In Wanchai, some bars (Dusk 'Til Dawn) board up the windows so you can't tell that the sun is out. I've been in there until 7 AM before thinking it's maybe 4 AM.
Lan Kwai Fong has last call at around 5 AM.
M1NT has last call at around 2 AM, but they're by far the exception. |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 9:37 AM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth roommate Do they expats stick to their own set of bars or is there overlap? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12477313) |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 10:57 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Expats stick to their own bars. By and large, the "local" scene is a different drinking scene entirely. It consists of a lot of odd drinking games and gambling (dice, mahjong), and the bars have a completely different vibe to what Westerners are used to. Westerners and western-educated locals (i.e. grew up in HK, went overseas for boarding school/college) go to the same bars, which are all very similar to bars in the U.S. Most of the local bars are in Causeway Bay and Kowloon.
If you want to meet the best of the attractive locals, go to Prive. |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 10:59 AM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth roommate Are the expat bars / places I want to drink close to the good hotels or am I in for a cabhike? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12477653) |
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Date: August 12th, 2009 12:14 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Many of the good hotels are in Kowloon, overlooking the skyline on HK island. It's a woeful cab ride but a very, very short MTR (subway) ride by New York standards. All of the good bars are in Lan Kwai Fong or Wyndham Street.
If you want to make life easier, stay at the Four Seasons or Mandarin Oriental. Both are in Central. If you want to be right by the action, stay in Hotel LKF, which is perched right above Lan Kwai Fong and Wyndham Street and has its own great bar scene (Azure - great rooftop bar). |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 9:36 AM Author: Cheese-eating ticket booth roommate I will bump this when I get there, you can explain where I want to drink based on what night of the week it is once I nail down which dates I am in HK. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492996) |
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Date: August 10th, 2009 9:48 PM Author: mahogany appetizing theater stage therapy Are there Latinas? If so, tell me about the Latinas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12473625) |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 2:37 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask There is actually a decent-sized Mexican expat population. The Mexicans here are all very well-educated and wealthy. Girls tend to be pretty hot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12476589) |
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Date: August 10th, 2009 9:56 PM Author: impressive big cruise ship whoa
too bad hk probably has too many scientists already :( |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 9:49 AM Author: Cerebral ratface public bath by FAR the most important question: where do you go for nice, clean, escorts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12477338) |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 11:00 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I haven't taken advantage of it, but I can't imagine it to be too difficult. One of the financial printers (I think it could have been RR Donnelly) hosts an annual Super Bowl breakfast, complete with "cheerleaders". The "cheerleaders" provide entertainment during the commercial breaks (American commercials aren't shown in HK). One year, the "cheerleaders" showed up in uniforms with the number 69 on them and it was very obvious they were escorts hired to perform. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12477657) |
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Date: August 11th, 2009 9:13 PM Author: lascivious travel guidebook son of senegal what is the process of lateralling out to hk? did you search job search engines? law firm websites? also, if I end up working for a firm that has an hk office, say, clifford chance nyc, is it easier to try to transfer offices than to lateral to another firm? the expat packages, are they common? how much are they usually? are there requirements for keeping them? are salaries comparable? tyia, sorry for the woeful formatting, I'm typing this on my phone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12481771) |
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Date: August 12th, 2009 12:12 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I used a recruiter who specializes in the Asia markets but is based in the States (Evan Jowers - the dood who does the Asia Chronicles on ATL). He gets a lot of shit on ATL for being a bit of a blowhard, but he's a pretty solid guy to work with and knows his shit. I'm not usually a fan of using recruiters, but on occasion you stumble upon one who knows his shit and is more of an agent than a headhunter.
Transferring to Asia from a U.S. office could be an option, especially ITE when the Asia offices of firms are much busier than the U.S. offices of firms. However, make sure that the skills you're getting in the U.S. are transferable. You want a lot of PE/M&A, and you also want some exposure to capital markets deals (particularly unregistered deals, i.e. Reg S/144A).
Expat packages are par for the course. I don't think they've decreased the expat packages for new offers since the economy tanked. Single people (i.e. me) get $60k+/year. There are some firms which don't give expat packages, but they are not top-tier. No requirement for keeping the expat package other than keeping your job. If you're a U.S. associate in HK, you will be paid NY market. |
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Date: August 12th, 2009 3:13 PM Author: lascivious travel guidebook son of senegal Is it significantly more difficult to transfer/lateral if you really have no connections to HK other than something like a study abroad semester in UG?
Also, if someone has a somewhat less-impressive resume, such as LS right after undergrad, T14+V50 with 3-4 years PQE, rather than T6+V20, is it still doable? By doable, I don't mean just working in HK, I mean getting a gig similar to yours, or at least a similar salary+benefits package.
I suppose I'm just curious if the setup you have is something that ex-DPW, Skadden, and Craveth folks do, or if it's something that's more accessible to people who practiced at places like Stroock or Cadwalader or DLA Piper.
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Date: August 12th, 2009 8:50 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I think T14 + V50 would be fine, as long as you're in NYC or California (i.e. a major market). Coming from Strook or DLA you'd obviously be less competitive than someone coming from DPW or Cravath, but you'll get an interview or two. Chances will likely be better in 2010.
Gigs like mine are the only gigs available in HK to U.S. qualified attorneys. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 1:52 AM Author: Puce set What about US and HK qualified attorneys? HK qualification isn't really that difficult anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12500526) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:29 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask HK qualification isn't that hard compared to US qualification, but it's a far cry from "drivers' test" ease. It's probably similar to the CFA - something you can pass even if you have a full-time job, but it will stress you out and take up a ton of your time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501109) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:35 AM Author: Puce set Figured it wasn't a cakewalk, but it definitely seemed much less intrusive than most decent bar exams. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501141) |
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Date: August 12th, 2009 6:25 PM Author: crimson electric meetinghouse How many hours do you work and what is the workload like? Does it make you want to killself? Do you have time to enjoy HK? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12488593) |
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Date: August 12th, 2009 8:55 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask When I first got here in 2007, the hours were brutal. I'd be at the office until 2 AM at least 2-3 nights a week. One of those nights would be a post-4AM night. At least one weekend night would be spent working. Then the markets tanked and none of us were very busy. Up until September-October 2008 there were the odd deals which would keep us busy (in August I had a string of nights where I would be in the office as late as 6 AM). Things really slow down in the period between Christmas and Chinese New Year. After that, my firm went through a large round of layoffs and culled a ton of people. Since the layoffs, we've been understaffed and quite busy, almost to 2007 levels. However, many of my other friends at other firms are not busy at all. How busy you are in 2009 largely depends on the firm.
Fortunately, the people are much friendlier and collegial than in NY. I was working much harder, but I felt like I was around friends as opposed to colleagues so I never felt lonely.
I still had time to enjoy HK - so much of this city is partying, and if you leave the office at 1 AM on a Saturday night (i.e. Sunday morning) there's still 6 good hours of partying left in the night. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 1:48 AM Author: crimson electric meetinghouse That sounds miserable. How do you rationalize working that much? I take it you, along with many other professionals there, work six days a week?
So you have a few hours to party Sunday morning (snort a gram of coke and fuck two hookers) then the rest of the time you're working nonstop only to watch your HSBC savings account grow?
The life of a baller lawyer in HK sounds great. However, I don't understand how you rationalize the discrepancy between that dream and the reality of your current situation.
I look forward to your reply. Is your numbing situation the best I can hope for in law? Do you find your current life worth living because it's better than being a huge nerd in undergrad? |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 1:51 AM Author: Puce set HK isn't for most people mate... you have to love what you do and be brilliant enough to do it better than anyone else could.
I've heard the first year over there is beyond brutal (think close to double the hours that first years work in NYC)
Most people couldn't do it... It's kind of the only thing I've dreamed about though, and I don't mind working 90 hour weeks.
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:44 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I agree that HK isn't for most people, but it's not twice as brutal as NYC (maybe ITE yes, but in 2007 it was only slightly more brutal).
HK isn't for most people because you have to be very outgoing and adventurous to survive here. If you're an introvert who likes museums, you won't fit in well here. If you're a religious type, you won't fit in well here (although religious Jews tend to do better than religious Christians). |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:33 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask There's enough downtime. It's not all go-go-go. Sometimes you have the entire day off on Sunday, then you go on a boat trip with your friends to one of the outlying islands or you just sleep all day.
There's an energy of being overseas that is indescribable and unlike anything I felt in the States. You are such a short flight from so many awesome destinations and you meet an amazingly diverse amount of people (although they're not diverse in terms of socioeconomic status or education - most people are highly educated/successful and earn a lot of money doing something preftigious). |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:47 AM Author: Puce set While I agree with all of this... it just simply isn't for everyone.
I'm glad you like it so much mate.
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:55 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I never agreed that it was for everyone. I don't think there's anything on earth that's "for everyone". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501243) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 5:27 AM Author: crimson electric meetinghouse I understand the attraction to the country as I have some friends who grew up there and went to HK Island School. But let's not forget ARE country. Do you have any idea how ridiculous "Sometimes you have the entire day off on Sunday" sounds? That is hell on earth to those of us who aren't striver-fags (i.e. not on this board).
Again, how is it bearable? Low taxes and a housing package is nice, but that's not enough to justify the death of your life outside of work; you can't have a healthy dating life on only a few spare hours a week. Are you already making big $$$?
Like the i-banker fucks always say: WHAT IS YOUR EXIT STRATEGY? |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 6:35 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Hours aren't this bad all the time and everywhere. Some firms are still dead and others are spotty. We all suffer downtime patches. August is a particularly slow month as many people are out of town for holidays (explains my time to post). The time from Christmas to Chinese New Year is also very slow.
There's also the ebb and flow of deals. Sometimes you have busy nights, sometimes you don't. Sometimes a deal dies, or you can't get your visa processed in time to take a certain business trip and you have an unexpected weekend off.
Even during the busiest times I had a healthy dating life. Maybe it's because I wasn't dating for relationship purposes, but I still went out, partied, managed to meet up with whatever girl I was hooking up with at the time and have a respectable amount of sex.
HK is not the place for you if you're not a "striver-fag" of some sort. The entire place lends itself to striverism and there are no mid-market jobs or 9-5 jobs here which pay well. The people in HR, marketing and recruiting may have more normal lives, but they make less and don't have as large of an expat package if they have one at all. This makes living in HK hard - there aren't many mid-range options here. Even going out to dinner (at the nice, but not too expensive places) is more expensive than in NYC. Cabs are cheap, and you can sometimes go to a "local" restaurant and get a tasty and obscenely inexpensive meal, but HK isn't a city which caters to the middle of the road (in all senses of the word) very well. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:55 AM Author: impressive big cruise ship That sounds fucking awesome. I know you've answered it before but is it really not a big deal not knowing Chinese?
Outside shot, but do you know anything about HK grad school admissions? I figure it's one of the foreign countries I'd have a better shot at considering their universities are taught in english and all |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:57 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask It's a big deal if you don't know Mandarin, at least as far as job prospects are concerned. In HK, you don't need to know a word of Cantonese (the local dialect) outside of taxicab directions and counting numbers. I only recently learned how to count to 5, and my Canto vocab consists of "good morning", "thank you", "road", "keep going", "stop here please" and 1-5. Some of the guys here with yellow fever have learned to say phrases like "pretty girl". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501252) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:01 AM Author: Puce set No offense, but doesn't that piss you off? (them learning something so pejorative as "pretty girl") (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501267) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:04 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Guys who don't date local-local girls look down on the guys who do date the local-local girls.
I only know one white guy who dates and hangs out with locals who knows more Canto than pejorative pickup lines, but he's a bit of a wackjob himself. He's taking Cantonese lessons and is very enamored with all things east Asian (especially the women). He went so far as to say that he considers himself Chinese, and gets mad when he is given a knife and fork in a Chinese restaurant.
He dated a pretty Hapa girl (from America) for a month and a half and then dumped her because she was too white for him, both in the cultural and the physical sense. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:12 AM Author: Rough-skinned House Ceo Hapa? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501297) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:15 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Half Asian, half white. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501306) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:22 AM Author: Obsidian really tough guy resort Hawaiian slang for a part-white person. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501325) |
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Date: August 12th, 2009 10:14 PM Author: Gay tanning salon For those without language skills, when do you think lateral options will be available?
which practice groups will get picked up first? |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 9:39 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask There are some firms that may be looking for people who are committed to moving to Asia without regard to language skills. Other firms will care more about having fluent English than being fluent in Mandarin/Korean.
Most firms at the moment require (or strongly prefer) at least some kind of proficiency, according to my friends trying to lateral into the market.
PE/M&A/Capital Markets will be the first practice group to "rise", at least from a U.S.-qualified lawyer perspective. |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 5:21 AM Author: vigorous turdskin people who are hurt Let's say that you would like to be a partner or in-house in the U.S. Is it better to start in HK or NY? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492693) |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 9:43 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask NY. For better or for worse, some firms in the U.S. see the training you get in Asia as very specialized and particular to Asia work. If the firm or corporation doesn't have an Asia presence (i.e. if you were trying to lateral back to MIDLAW in a small to mid-sized city) they might not have much of an understanding of the kind of work you did in Asia.
From a practice perspective, the capital markets work we do out here is very narrow - it focuses pretty much exclusively on Reg S/144A deals. We don't deal with reporting requirements of registered companies (10K, 10Q, 8K), or S1s, or S4s, so common first-year tasks like going through the redbook and making sure the prospectus contains all the required data will be alien to senior associates who spent all their time in Asia. In fact, all parts of the redbook except those dealing with exemptions to registration requirements will be a huge blind spot for people who practiced almost exclusively in Asia. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 7:40 AM Author: vigorous turdskin people who are hurt What if it's a choice between these two career paths:
2 years in Asia --> 8 years in NY --> Partner/In-House
2 years in NY --> 2 years in Asia --> 6 years in NY --> Partner/In-House
10 years in NY --> Partner/In-House. |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 5:31 AM Author: dashing pozpig chapel I think you should go kill yourself right now with a rusty pair of scissors. Start by stabbing yourself in the eyes and cut out each eyeball, one-by-one. Now you will be blind so you will need to be careful. You should next have a ball peen hammer in your other hand and use that to crush your fingers one-by-one on only one hand. It is important you only fuck up one hand because this is the most important part. Pick up a rusty saw and then start hacking off your legs. At this point you will be in pain and want to faint. Don't be a fucking pussy and don't faint. You need to cut through both fucking legs before you die. Only pussies and weak ass niggers die before that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492703) |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 5:32 AM Author: Pontificating bateful range brethren the fuck is this shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492705) |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 5:42 AM Author: dashing pozpig chapel The best fucking advice ever you pussy ass bitch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492717) |
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Date: August 13th, 2009 5:39 AM Author: Insanely Creepy Mad-dog Skullcap Hospital teddy, control yourself (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12492714) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 1:55 AM Author: cracking dragon Do you like your work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12500550) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 1:55 AM Author: Rough-skinned House Ceo Sounds like HK>>>>>>>>>US. Is there anything you prefer about the US? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12500553) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:26 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I miss a few things, like March Madness and red velvet cupcakes.
There aren't many CGWBTs here, either, other than the girls who came over here with their boyfriends.
Girls here tend to have the urban physique (thin, toned, small breasts) when they are the most in shape. They're not as cynical as their NY counterparts, but many of the girls here came over from NYC or other large cities and have a similar career-focused and self-focused mentality.
They're all down to party and a lot of them are also down to fuck pretty quickly, but they're largely a bunch of overeducated, overachieving, overprivileged, undersupervised brats who now have a ton of money that they want to blow on hookers and coke (or handbags and coke, if female). Some of them walk around like they're too good to talk to you, which is surprising since they'd barely be noticed in most parts of America.
If you find Asian or half-Asian girls attractive, HK can't be beat. If you like alpha females, HK can't be beat. If you like party girls, HK can't be beat.
If you prefer a nice, sweet, genuine, cheerful woman who is unconcerned with where you went to school, who your family is, what kind of books you read, how many stamps you have in your passport, or how much you make, she's not in HK and if she is, she probably came over here with her BF. The quality (for relationship purposes) of women who came over with boyfriends >>>>>> the quality of women who came over here by themselves.
So I guess I could say that I miss certain aspects of ARE COUNTRY women, namely CGWBTs and nice, sweet feminine girls. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:29 AM Author: Rough-skinned House Ceo "Some of them walk around like they're too good to talk to you, which is surprising since they'd barely be noticed in most parts of America. "
Aren't the western girls starving for guys or do they go out with local men? |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:31 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I have heard of NO western girl going out with a local (read: chinese) man. Even among Asians who grew up abroad or were educated abroad, they still prefer Western men. There really is a bit rift between the local population that was not educated overseas and the expat population.
Many western girls date men who grew up in HK but are of British or Australian origin. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:33 AM Author: Rough-skinned House Ceo What are these whites who grew up in HK like? Do they speak Cantonese? Do they relate better to Chinese than Westerners? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501129) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:42 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask No. Remember, HK was under British rule until 1997. There's still a substantial amount of Western people who live here. In the U.K and Australia, HK is considered one of the cities you go to if you don't want to go to London/Sydney/Melbourne.
None of these white people speak Cantonese fluently. Some of them have picked up enough to get around and converse with locals for day-to-day purposes such as getting around in taxicabs. They are definitely Western in terms of culture and do not see themselves as Chinese one bit. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:44 AM Author: Rough-skinned House Ceo So they formed their little subculture? Are they considered foreigners now? Are they leaving in droves? How is Singapore compared to HK? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501198) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:50 AM Author: Puce set Singapore has a lot more English speaking people there (about 80% of everyone speaks English).
Salaries are also a bit higher, real estate is a tad more lucrative to invest in, etc.
There are some downsides. Tax rates are 3% higher, the people aren't quite as diverse (though they still are pretty diverse) and there's a bit of "native culture" which is definitely different than Hong Kong.
Almost no white person I met in Hong Kong spoke Mandarin or Cantonese... don't even ask me why. I think it's just arrogance and our nationalist mindset in the western world.
Personally, this sort of nationalist mindset will only harm them in the long run. As China's economy becomes First world in all regards, usurps the US's GDP, these people will be replaced. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:00 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask "I think it's just arrogance and our nationalist mindset in the western world."
I disagree. If you go to Korea, mainland China or Japan, many expats speak the local language. You just don't need to in HK. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:02 AM Author: Puce set I noticed a hell of a lot more Japanese that spoke English than white people that spoke Japanese while in Tokyo.
I never made it to South Korea... but I would like to if I have time this year.
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Date: September 11th, 2009 9:34 AM Author: Infuriating dingle berry nursing home Well duh. English >>> Japanese for business. It's necessary for Japanese businessmen to speak English if they do int'l shit, but not vice versa. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12718870) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:54 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask People who have ties to HK aren't suddenly picking up and going back to the UK or Australia. Neither are they considered "foreigners" here in HK.
HK truly is an odd blend of Chinese and Western. The Westerners feel like the city is theirs and have adopted certain Chinese holidays (namely Dragon Boat Day) as their own. To Westerners, Dragon Boat Day is an excuse to get on someone's boat and consume a shit ton of booze. Law firms and banks sponsor a dragon boat team, and the entire day is a boozefest.
Westerners also tend to concentrate themselves in certain parts of the island. Central/Mid-Levels is almost all young, single expats in their 20s and 30s. Discovery Bay is almost all the "dogs and babies" expat crowd. The south side of the main HK island (nice beaches, green space) is also expat families, as is Sai Kung and Clearwater Bay (lush, green, suburby spot in the New Territories).
Locals tend to live in the Kennedy Town suburb (west side of the island) and other, less upmarket parts of HK (namely Kowloon and other cheaper parts of the New Territories).
While there are a lot of very wealthy locals in HK, they are almost all educated abroad and live in buildings or in areas where plenty of expats live.
There's a large socioeconomic divide in HK between wealthy locals/expats and the more "middle class" locals who were not educated overseas. While there's almost no racism here (unless you're black, then the local middle-class will be afraid of you), there's a shit ton of classism. Classism is not frowned upon even in social settings, and I'd even argue that it's encouraged. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 3:59 AM Author: Puce set There's still such a stark difference in education available here and available in China/HK.
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:02 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Very true, although isn't HKU one of the top universities in the world?
There are many great private schools and international schools, but like everything in HK, you can get elite, top quality products but they come at a high price.
I don't know the exact details since I wasn't a child here, nor do I know anyone who has school-aged children here well enough to ask these questions. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:07 AM Author: Puce set HKU isn't one of the top universities in the world..
Out of the top 20 universities in the world... 17 are in the US. Tokyo University (which has absurd admission standards) is the only one to break into the top 20 in Asia.
Harvard University has been #1 in the world for at least 15 years now.
HKU isn't even in the top 100 lists I have available. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:10 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-colleges/2009/06/18/worlds-best-colleges-top-400.html?PageNr=1
University of Hong Kong is 26th here. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:12 AM Author: Puce set http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities
Wiki sucks I guess. My mistake. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:04 AM Author: impressive big cruise ship I imagine education in HK is at least as good as ours since it's based on the UK system (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501279) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:10 AM Author: Puce set This simply isn't what I've seen.
Though I think Chinese secondary schools dollar for dollar grossly outperform American public high schools in every regard ($500/yr for a boarding school because of no gov subsidies), at the collegiate level they are still very behind.
I'm not talking about public colleges here though. The top schools here are still the top ones in the world... for now.
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:14 AM Author: Rough-skinned House Ceo 500/yr boarding school?! Is it high quality? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501304) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:16 AM Author: Puce set I don't have any sources to send you on it, but that is generally what peasant farmers do to teach their kids English etc.
Quality wise they seemed decent enough...
There are of course better schools than that in some areas... but the schools I saw in the growth/boom areas had computers/decently fluent English teachers... Education results seemed extremely good, I suppose because the kids actually felt some great pride in it... and generally seemed to work extremely hard knowing what a financial burden it was for their parents to send them there.
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:20 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask The more I read your posts, the more I think that you may not like most of the people in HK. Very, very few of the expats have a genuine interest in Asia and learning about the Asian cultures for their own sake. Either they are Asians who want to move closer to home for family purposes, or they are whites who may have studied business or international relations (with an Asian focus) in school and predominantly socialize with similar people while in HK.
I notice the Americans tend to hang out with each other. There's a large group of Americans in their mid to late 20s who almost all went to top universities and almost all have jobs in finance or law (or an industry supporting finance or law, such as headhunting). They don't really branch out of their circle of friends too much. The British and Australians are more inclusive. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:23 AM Author: Puce set I would call it simply a respect than an actual interest. Historically I'm much more interested in Japanese culture than Chinese.
I don't really understand that whole "socializing" with your own kind thing, but I suppose it just happens in certain areas of Hong Kong.
Career wise, I've always found that the more you absorb, the more unique knowledge you have (ie. only person in a company speaking Mandarin or Spanish or whatever) the easier it is to shove the incompetents out of the way.
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:26 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask As much as it happens along nationality lines, the Brits, Americans, Aussies, Canadians and other expats all are intermixed. The cliques tend to blend due to a few "adventurous" people who don't mind being part of multiple cliques, or being part of no clique at all.
The real lack of diversity in HK is socioeconomic. You don't get to meet anyone who is blue-collar or didn't go to any university (other than people in the hospitality industry), or who is even the lesser-educated white-collar "cube guy". Some people think this distracts from the HK experience and adds to the snobbery and self-absorbsion of the place. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:50 AM Author: idiotic crackhouse sweet tailpipe What about tax work? Have you worked with any tax attorneys (you know, part of the corporate team) in the HK offices of US firms?
Are there ANY US tax attorneys in HK (as in, in the HK offices of US firms)? |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:53 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask It's very rare, although I've come across the odd tax attorney here and there. I don't think a tax attorney has much of a chance to come out here ITE at the moment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501426) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:56 AM Author: idiotic crackhouse sweet tailpipe what about in a few years, if ITE picks up in Asia? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501433) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 5:01 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask I honestly don't know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12501444) |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 4:55 AM Author: Cerebral ratface public bath Okay, back to hot, white escorts. I had a hard time finding them. Where would you go?
My ex-pat friends point me to some shady shit, or china (not hk) girls. That's fucking dirty. |
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Date: August 14th, 2009 6:38 AM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Not part of my knowledge. Moscow, perhaps?
The white expat girls are almost uniformly down to fuck (or at least hook up) if you come from a good family (i.e. upper-middle class) and good school and work in finance. If you fall into that group you'll have little trouble with the ladies and won't need an escort.
If you don't, they probably won't give you the time of day. |
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Date: August 17th, 2009 9:19 PM Author: lascivious travel guidebook son of senegal does "housing allowance" and "expat package" = the same thing? as in 60k given for housing plus 60k for being an expat? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12527579) |
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Date: August 17th, 2009 9:41 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Yes, they mean the same thing. Technically, the "expat package" can comprise the housing allowance and any allowances given for childrens' tuition, but for a single person with no kids, the expat package is just the housing allowance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12527715) |
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Date: August 17th, 2009 9:51 PM Author: french massive den Are Asian-Americans discriminated against in biglaw firms in HK? I would think to some extent not because they may have language skills...but we all know that Asians respect (sometimes obsessively) the white man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12527781) |
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Date: August 17th, 2009 9:59 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask Absolutely not. There are Asian partners as well as white partners. If anything, I've seen more discrimination go the other way (Asians discriminate against whites) both professionally and in daily life. For instance, Koreans are very fussy about working with only other Koreans on Korea deals. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12527830) |
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Date: September 10th, 2009 1:03 PM Author: narrow-minded crawly pocket flask bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1059980&forum_id=2#12711349) |