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AMLAW 100
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 12:26 AM Author: motley house selfie can someone post all the subscriber-only info?
specifically the revenue-per-lawyer stats, thanks |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 2:17 AM Author: hyperactive cracking bbw hell Should be on Westlaw in a couple days. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8046904) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 7:15 AM Author: motley house selfie gracias
just out of curiosity, what do you think of the utility of law students looking for a good place to spend their first few years essentially ranking firms by PEP (Vault), i couldn't believe how many people last fall in my class were picking firms solely on vault ranking
seems like it makes a lot more sense to consider a host of other statistics (especially revenue per lawyer) and prestige rankings (like chambers) ... this seems especially true when you're looking at a major market outside of NYC (chi, dc, la) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 7:16 AM Author: abnormal violent psychic USNews -> tells us where to study Vault -> Tells us where to work
hth |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 7:28 AM Author: motley house selfie enjoy getting scraps of work in a 25 attorney DC branch office of a NY firm! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8047388) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 7:30 AM Author: Brindle massive lodge pozpig i generally ask questions in job interviews (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8047389) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 7:30 AM Author: motley house selfie fascinating, tell me more (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8047391) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 8:00 AM Author: Brindle massive lodge pozpig wear a suit? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8047404) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 8:56 AM Author: Odious slimy stock car Vault IS a medium for prestige rankings and is not sorted "essentially ... by PEP." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8047479) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 12:08 PM Author: hyperactive cracking bbw hell Vault is useless and I wouldn't give any weight to it (especially outside NY). I agree that at CLS I see too many people basing their opinions solely on Vault. I think this is partly because of a lack of other information, and partly because 2Ls are confused about what they want and too lazy to find out. But to the extent that it doesn't really matter to me how other people screw up their career choices, I don't really care.
Vault is not a good reflection of PPP, otherwise firms like DPW should be much lower and firms like Cadwalader should be much higher.
What I like about PPP is that it is the purest measure of a law firm's success. That is because law firms are set up to benefit their partners, so PPP is the single stat they should care about most. If a firm has high PPP, its partners will feel they have been successful regardless of RPL, etc. So it's something of a disconnect to evaluate a firm in any other way, because there is no real reason why a firm should want to maximize anything else.
Also, all things equal, rich partners are happier partners, etc etc etc. Had some other thoughts at http://xoxoreader.blogspot.com/2007/04/selectivity-and-firm-prestige.html and http://xoxoreader.blogspot.com/2007/03/should-i-choose-higher-vault-ranked.html |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 1:26 PM Author: jade thirsty stead but what about Cad's high leverage? Do you want to be one of 12 children in a rich household, or the only child? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8048527) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 1:38 PM Author: hyperactive cracking bbw hell Is your law firm going to be like a family to you, and be your primary source of affection and self-worth? Or will you treat it as a place to make some money and get some skills with as little effort as possible, before you move on? (I'm not knocking the former; many people do view their firm this way.)
High leverage has pros and cons. One advantage is that (all other things being equal) it lets partners make more money without demanding more hours of each individual associate more. Whether this is what you're looking for or not is up to you. Cadwalader's managing partner is actually very proud that they are the most leveraged firm: http://xoxoreader.blogspot.com/2007/02/cadwalader-managing-partner-guest.html |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 1:48 PM Author: Impertinent principal's office hairy legs Associates seem the most miserable at the highly leveraged and/or high PPP firms, just talk to them. The hours are definitely not better, in most cases they are worse. There really isn't any benefit. Are partners happier? Yeah, about their paychecks, but this doesn't translate into any real tangible benefits for the average associate who is going to stick around 3-4 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8048665) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 1:51 PM Author: Wine Area titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8048683) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 2:03 PM Author: jade thirsty stead Income aside, there are other intangibles such as meaningful mentoring, availability of good work, chances at pship, and resume value of the name. All of these things are affected by leverage. So even from just a benefit-to-associate perspective, leverage matters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8048791) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 3:55 PM Author: hyperactive cracking bbw hell I was only talking about the case where *all other things were equal* to point out that high leverage is not intrinsically a problem. If you are more interested in things like mentoring, chances at partnership, etc. then we can have a separate discussion about that; there is no need to use leverage as a proxy. There are certainly firms with higher leverage and still better "resume value of the name" than firms with lower leverage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8049525) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 2:41 PM Author: boyish hissy fit useless brakes Why isn't RPL a better indicator of law firm success? RPL shows how profitable each attorney is. A firm can easily get around PPP by never promoting anyone to partner, and that makes for one heck of a shitty firm (aka Cadwalader).
I really don't think that law firms are set up only to benefit their partners, if only because then then promoting someone to partner would be against their interest.
It seems to me that all of this conflicts anyway. The more PPP you have, the less chance of partnership. The more RPL you have, the more hours you have to freaking work. At the end of the day, I think its probably best to work at a firm with middle PPP, RPL and all of those other indicators. |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 3:46 PM Author: hyperactive cracking bbw hell The problem with other metrics other than PPP is you have to consider, why would a partner care? At the end of the day, the partner does not care how much revenue each lawyer generates, the partner cares how much money he himself makes. *All other things equal*, a partner is not going to prefer a firm with lower PPP and higher RPL, and a firm is not going to try to improve its RPL at the expense of PPP. If a firm can improve its PPP without improving its RPL (or even by lowering their RPL), then it is completely rational for it to do so. This is what I mean about the disconnect -- you are evaluating firms and partners by a standard other than what they themselves are trying to achieve.
Promoting any *random* associate to partnership is against the firm's interest. This is why it is hard to make partner. Firm's promote somebody to partner because they believe the firm will be better off (i.e. more profitable) with that lawyer than without. Thus, the higher PPP at your firm, the more you have to excel (in terms of extra revenue that you will bring in) to be valuable enough for partnership.
You can increase RPL without increasing hours by billing more than your competitors. But not every firm can do this and there is a limit to how much you can do. |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 2:13 PM Author: Cerebral Aquamarine Brunch Ceo What would be the Westlaw cite for the AmLaw 100? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8048851) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 3:47 PM Author: hyperactive cracking bbw hell Just periodically run a search for "amlaw 100" and see if the new issue is available yet. The cite for last year's info is in this thread: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=373243&mc=123&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8049484) |
Date: May 2nd, 2007 2:35 PM Author: Multi-colored costumed haunted graveyard Bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8049019) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2007 8:42 PM Author: Adulterous Cruel-hearted Affirmative Action Home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=624976&forum_id=2#8051055) |