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Why I'm not going to SAIS this fall

A message for the do gooders
Ruddy Ratface School Cafeteria
  08/24/09
You made the right choice. All these idiots taking out 10...
puce cracking temple fanboi
  08/24/09
I don't think grad degrees are necessarily a waste of time a...
Ruddy Ratface School Cafeteria
  08/24/09
LOL
Vengeful Codepig
  08/26/09
tell this message to the dumbfuck KSG people. LOL at them th...
Exhilarant high-end corner international law enforcement agency
  08/25/09
i don't believe that most people in the "real world&quo...
Chocolate Public Bath Sneaky Criminal
  08/25/09
120,000 is nothing
Ungodly comical nowag
  08/24/09
Fine for JD, MBA, and MD (or other high-paying careers), but...
Spectacular opaque mad cow disease
  08/24/09
this whole thread is full of lol
Electric Fuchsia Voyeur Round Eye
  09/01/09
you'll probably regret it, but hey, best of luck! lol
Racy offensive pervert rehab
  08/25/09
Most definitely agreed! There is really not much sense in t...
indigo stead
  08/26/09


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Date: August 24th, 2009 12:50 AM
Author: Ruddy Ratface School Cafeteria
Subject: A message for the do gooders

(So this board seems sort of dead right now, but since I've used it quite a bit I figure I'll post something anyway.. )

As the thread says, I was accepted to SAIS for this fall, but after lots of deliberation, I decided not to go. I'm writing this for all of you interested (or currently working) in the nonprofit sector. It's where I've worked since graduating, it's where I imagine being for the future. And it seems a big percentage of applicants to IR schools are interested in public service or "doing good" in some vague way.

If you are interested in nonprofit or other low-paying career fields, it is probably NOT WORTH paying for a super expensive degree. Totally obvious, you might say, and repeated often enough on this board. Yes, you are smart and ambitious, and you worked hard to get into a good program. But sit down and crunch the numbers first, something I only did after being accepted to schools - hopefully you are smarter and will do this from the outset.

SAIS' estimated student budget for 2009 is around $58,000 for one year. Hmm, almost $120,000 for two years? I've always been frugal, so I can take that down somewhat. But even taking into consideration fellowship funding, (of which 3/4 of the incoming class does not receive) I would likely owe around $70 to $80,000. The average debt load of a graduating SAIS student is $75,000.

Looking at big numbers can be misleading, so you have to break it down on a monthly scale. What is a REALISTIC salary that you can expect to make upon graduation? There are new programs from the federal government (check out ibrinfo.org) to help out, but these are tricky. Income based repayment (IBR) will give you a much more manageable repayment plan per month, and any debt left after 25 years will be forgiven. I'm 26 now, do I want to be 51 when I make my last loan repayment?

There's also public service loan forgiveness (PSLF) - work in public service, nonprofit, or a couple of other sectors for 10 years, and any remaining debt will be forgiven. Sounds great! But your repayment is tied to your salary - if you get a good salary a couple years down the line, you will end up paying a great deal of your loan back. It doesn't have to be 10 consecutive years, but still - if your life plans change, or you are otherwise disqualified for the program, you have to pay back the rest. And here's the great part - as of right now, there is no way to determine that you definitely qualify for either program. You have to take it on faith that your work qualifies, and that this program will not be altered, cut back, or otherwise curtailed for many years to come.

It simply came down to this: I didn't want to tithe 10 to 15% of my salary every year for the next 10 years (or 30, should I somehow be disqualified for the PSLF program). I expect to take a certain amount of debt wherever I go, but there is a spectrum. For me, anything north of $40,000 or $50,000 is madness. Debt is certainly not the only factor in grad school, and if you are absolutely convinced this is the best thing for you evar, then do it. But your happiness and career satisfaction are not predicated solely on where you went to school. And that monthly cut of your paycheck will simply disappear for many years to come- not to be used for your kids, house, apartment, or vacations.

My last point is more philosophical - it's really easy to buy into careerism and the idea of school prestige. We all have to do it to an extent. But in the nonprofit world you will encounter people who have gotten to where they are in a million different ways. And your expensive degree will narrow your career choices, maybe beneficially, maybe not. Justifying taking that low-paying but really interesting job will be much harder. You want to "do good," but look: these IR schools are generally not places to become a social justice activist, and you will be steered both by chance and necessity to more lucrative, but less activist (and perhaps less rewarding) work.

As for me, I'm going to start the application process again soon. I'm going to take on some debt wherever I go, but I am setting my own cutoff for how much I'm willing to pay. Your individual experience may vary, but I for one am not convinced I have to pay a hundred thousand dollars to get a job and life that I like.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12580096)



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Date: August 24th, 2009 1:19 PM
Author: puce cracking temple fanboi

You made the right choice.

All these idiots taking out 100k loans for TTT IR cashcow masTTTers degrees are typically prestige whores who think a grad degree will make up for their TTT undergrad. Graduate degrees in IR, or just about anything for that matter, are a waste of time and money. Time you could be using to gain more work experiance/advance in your career and money you could be spending on a house.

Besides, it sounds more prestigious telling people you got in, but declined. hehe.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12582912)



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Date: August 24th, 2009 10:47 PM
Author: Ruddy Ratface School Cafeteria

I don't think grad degrees are necessarily a waste of time and money - at least in the nonprofit sector, at a certain level it's basically required you have a masters degree. It didn't used to be that way but it's increasingly true.

But then the question is how much you want to pay for the thing, assuming you need to get an MA for your career (and plus, two years of taking a break from work and studying sounds pretty nice too). I say the less the better - it will pay back in the long run to be careful about your money.

As for me, I'd rather have my application fee money back than the 'prestige' of saying I got into SAIS but declined :)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12587155)



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Date: August 26th, 2009 1:03 PM
Author: Vengeful Codepig

LOL

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12598694)



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Date: August 25th, 2009 4:41 AM
Author: Exhilarant high-end corner international law enforcement agency

tell this message to the dumbfuck KSG people. LOL at them thinking others will believe it is a respectable harvard degree after 130k.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12589794)



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Date: August 25th, 2009 10:48 AM
Author: Chocolate Public Bath Sneaky Criminal

i don't believe that most people in the "real world" think the way xoxo'ers do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12590249)



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Date: August 24th, 2009 1:11 PM
Author: Ungodly comical nowag

120,000 is nothing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12582848)



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Date: August 24th, 2009 2:57 PM
Author: Spectacular opaque mad cow disease

Fine for JD, MBA, and MD (or other high-paying careers), but an IR Master's isn't worth 120k

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12583539)



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Date: September 1st, 2009 10:41 AM
Author: Electric Fuchsia Voyeur Round Eye

this whole thread is full of lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12644136)



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Date: August 25th, 2009 10:34 AM
Author: Racy offensive pervert rehab

you'll probably regret it, but hey, best of luck!

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12590198)



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Date: August 26th, 2009 6:16 PM
Author: indigo stead

Most definitely agreed! There is really not much sense in taking out 120k in loans if you want to work in government or non-profit sectors. Those programs are fine if you get a great fellowship or your employer is paying, but it makes no sense to pay full price for them if you won't be working in the private sector.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1070158&forum_id=3#12600768)