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Columbia LSMA- Your Thoughts
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Date: November 11th, 2007 4:21 PM Author: zombie-like zippy water buffalo I know there have been some threads on this, but I'm looking at the stats on it and the admissions rates are not much higher than the "traditional" M.A. programs. Also, this program is really unlike the other "non-traditional" ones in that: 1) You attend the regular classes. 2) Its administered from the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences.
Questions: What does the actual degree say? Does it say LSMA or ALM? Or is it really an M.A.? Also, what would be the cutoffs to get in? Any ideas? Any former or prospective applicants?
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Date: November 12th, 2007 10:36 AM Author: zombie-like zippy water buffalo No takers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8885058) |
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Date: November 13th, 2007 2:37 PM Author: Stubborn space Subject: LSMA I'm currently applying to Columbia's LSMA program in American Studies, and from what I've surmised, their LSMA is directly tied to the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Your degree, if earned in Liberal Studies, will essentially be a Masters and will be awarded as such, since the LSMA programs are within the GS of Arts and Sciences. The only difference between the LSMA and the "traditional" MA appears to be the amount of flexibility. Students enrolled in LSMA programs pay by the credit, not by the semester as a whole, and the LSMA programs are also more interdisciplinary than their traditional counterparts. I also found a statistical abstract on Columbia's LSMA admissions/acceptance rates, and from what I can tell, the LSMA programs have around a 60% acceptance rate, which is higher than most of their other programs by a considerable margin. Are you thinking of applying? |
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Date: November 14th, 2007 12:51 AM Author: zombie-like zippy water buffalo Subject: LSMA Yeah, definitely considering it. In fact, its the only program I'm really interested in because I could also work to support myself. I also like the sub-concentrations they have. 60% is comforting, but that still means they reject a considerable portion of applicants. I'm just wondering what criteria they judge by. My transcript will be somewhat weak, but my letters, CV, and PS will be good.
Are you applying for Spring? |
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Date: November 14th, 2007 1:47 PM Author: Stubborn space Yeah, I'm applying for this upcoming spring semester. I think the biggest things the admissions committee looks at is your CV. They're also interested in how well you write, hence the need for all the writing samples and a statement of purpose. They want to see how conceivable your intended study is at their school, and they need to make sure what you want to do is interesting enough for them to let you in. I think the reason people knock it is because of its name, "Liberal Studies", but the truth of the matter is, you're taking the same exact classes as everyone else in regular masters programs, so there is virtually no difference in terms of class rigor. The program culminates with a "paper" instead of a thesis, but it is still of substantial size and depth. My application and all its credentials were received by late October, so I should be hearing back pretty soon, or at least I hope. Which program in the LSMA were you interesed in the most? |
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Date: December 1st, 2007 6:47 PM Author: Crusty hyperventilating sneaky criminal sanctuary Traditional MA programs at Columbia have a 40% acceptance rate, give or take a few percentage points depending on the year.
You'll also notice that the application deadline for LSMA is actually after the admission decision notification dates for the traditional programs, so if you apply to a traditional MA program and are denied, you can still apply to the LSMA as a backup (it's too late for you to do this, but the info might be helpful to others who are interested in taking this route). |
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Date: November 13th, 2007 10:23 PM Author: cheese-eating nibblets Its a piece of shit and an even bigger joke that a regular Columbia humanities masters. Which is saying something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8891631) |
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Date: November 13th, 2007 11:16 PM Author: Stubborn space It all depends on what you're seeking in the program. If you're looking to go on to some kind of advanced Ph.D. programs, it's obviously not for you. If you're interested in doing some interesting research at a great university without compromising your career or other priorities, then it's a great program. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8891923) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2007 8:33 AM Author: Crusty hyperventilating sneaky criminal sanctuary Columbia is generous in that their LSMA is indistinguishable from a traditional MA in terms of the physical degree itself. However, graduate programs and many employers know the difference on a resume. LSMA programs are less focused and less intense than the other programs at Columbia and really aren't sufficient if you want to go on for a PhD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8925064) |
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Date: November 22nd, 2007 7:24 PM Author: Stubborn space I think the LSMA is fine for people who have no desire to pursue a life in academia. If you want a hardcore academic program that leads into a competitive Ph.D. program, it's obviously not going to be right for you. If you're looking for some enrichment or an advancement in personal knowledge with a degree attached to it, it seems great. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8926153) |
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Date: November 26th, 2007 11:38 AM Author: zombie-like zippy water buffalo Well, now I'm confused. The website says that its intended for students who are not yet ready to engage in PhD level research. To me, that says that this is a step in achieving PhD-level work! Meaning, not detrimental in helping you get there! But, I may just be naive...
At any rate, I think I want to pursue law and I was talking to someone in the program who has expressed that several of her fellow classmates are doing that.
Overall, I'm just wondering if its incorrect to think of it as a stepping stone to a higher degree. I mean, I know that its not INTENDED to help you prepare for a PhD or law, but does actually having done the program make it (more) difficult for you to do so?
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Date: November 27th, 2007 12:54 AM Author: Stubborn space The biggest thing to remember when you apply to any masters programs with a Ph.D. in mind is that applying directly to a Ph.D. program is the best thing you can do. Obtaining any master's degree en route to a Ph.D. is the roundabout way of doing things, and it's also more expensive. If you know for certain that you want a Ph.D, apply directly to a Ph.D. program. (Ph.d. programs are where the money's at.) Masters degrees are good if you want to pursue one subject and move on to something else for your doctorate. The Liberal Studies MA can prep you for a Ph.D... it's just that it's not the "traditional" route. Plenty of people have gotten a Ph.D. after a liberal studies degree. It's not impossible. It's still a marketable degree if you play it as such, and it can't hurt your resume or CV. It's a matter of preference, really, and if you're seriously into getting a Ph.D, don't look at Columbia as a stepping stone. However, if you're testing the waters, and you're not sure about being in academia for another decade, get a master's first. The LSMA is perfect for that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8941191) |
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Date: November 30th, 2007 1:41 AM Author: Crusty hyperventilating sneaky criminal sanctuary "Obtaining any master's degree en route to a Ph.D. is the roundabout way of doing things"
Yes and no. People with the raw ability to do a PhD but without well-defined interests or research experience are well-served doing a terminal MA, because they are unlikely to be admitted to PhD programs right out of undergrad without good knowledge of research methods and strong faculty connections. Terminal MA programs can help you in all of these areas (my experience is a perfect example of this).
LSMA, however, is not the preferred route if you are, in fact, going to pursue a terminal master's before applying to PhD programs, because even though you take the same courses as PhD and traditional MA students, there is no thesis requirement, and the focus that exists in other programs simply doesn't exist in the LSMA program, which is largely designed for working professionals and for part-time completion.
You're right that the LSMA won't necessarily hurt your CV, but even if your interests aren't defined to a few dissertation-quality topics, you should at least have an idea going into an MA program of the direction you'd like to take. From what I can tell, it's very difficult to have the kind of directed, intensive experience in an LSMA program that is available to students in traditional programs. |
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Date: November 30th, 2007 2:08 AM Author: Stubborn space Agreed. For the most part, I see the LSMA as an enrichment degree. Seeing that I would like to teach at the community college level in the future, how would you rate the LSMA program for a prospective instructor? Most community colleges require an MA, and many of the instructors do not continue research past the MA level. Would this be a desirable degree for that kind of profession? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8955473) |
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Date: November 30th, 2007 10:45 AM Author: Crusty hyperventilating sneaky criminal sanctuary It depends. Most community colleges require instructors to have a certain number of coursework hours in the subject that they're teaching, which essentially means that if you want to teach, say, history, then you should at least a master's in history. If you want to teach stats, then you should have a master's in stats.
However, I believe that some of Columbia's LSMA programs actually concentrate enough to give people the required credits (for instance, if you focus on American Studies or something like that within the LSMA program, you'll probably take enough history credits to fulfill the minimum requirements to be hired by some community colleges). Again, if you know what subject you want to teach, then you're better off just getting a traditional master's in that subject and avoiding the extra hand-wringing that the LSMA route might cause.
My advice would be to take a look at the hiring policies of some community colleges, and then look at the various LSMA tracks that Columbia offers, and see if you'll be able to fulfill the minimum coursework requirements for instructors with that degree.
At any rate, I will say that I see the LSMA program as a great option for people who need scheduling flexibility or who just want some mid-career intellectual enrichment (the only general program that's better is Chicago's MAPSS, and that's not really even the same type of program, because it's designed specifically for students looking to make the leap to a PhD). IMHO, Columbia's LSMA is far better than the Harvard ALM, Dartmouth LSMA, etc., because you are taking true graduate courses with other MA and PhD students and are held to the same standard. This probably results in a better overall education than you would receive in something like the Harvard ALM, where you take classes primarily with other ALM students and are more or less isolated from the rest of the student body. |
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Date: November 30th, 2007 4:14 PM Author: Stubborn space It seems like many community college professors have their higher degrees in education, which doesn't lead to any sort of subject specialization. If I wanted to teach intro anthropology (with my BA being in anthropology) and an LSMA, wouldn't this more or less be the same idea as a masters in education? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8957371) |
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Date: December 1st, 2007 11:23 AM Author: Crusty hyperventilating sneaky criminal sanctuary It depends. Many community colleges care more that you can teach a certain subject than whether or not you have background in education (if you think about it, do you really know any professors at 4 year institutions who have education degrees? I sure don't).
Yes, a BA and an MA in anthropology would be sufficient to teach anthro at a community college. You need to make sure that the LSMA offers you enough anthropology credits to fulfill the minimums that community colleges require in order to teach the subject.
Out of curiosity, what is more attractive to you about the LSMA than a regular MA? It's completely understandable if you've got a career that you don't want to give up while pursuing your education. However, if you're going to put that much work into a degree--and if you know that you want to teach a certain subject--why not at least have something that you know will qualify you to do that?
You may want to call Columbia and ask them these questions, because they're better equipped than I am to answer them (I didn't do an LSMA program).
Something else to think about--do you have your heart set on Columbia, and if so, why? In the eyes of a community college, if you want to teach anthro, a master's degree in anthropology from Local State U. is likely more valuable than a liberal arts masters from an Ivy, not to mention more affordable.
If you have your eye on a PhD down the line, you might want to look into Columbia's more traditional master's programs, because they will train you specifically to do doctoral-level work, whereas the LSMA does not operate with this goal in mind. Otherwise, take a look at anthropology programs at other universities that might offer funding for master's students, because Columbia offers essentially no financial aid beyond loans to students in its MA programs.
If I were you, I'd take a long look at your options before jumping into a Columbia program that might not be the best fit for your goals. |
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Date: December 2nd, 2007 12:49 PM Author: Stubborn space The thing is, I'm not sure if I absolutely want to teach. Community college was just one of the options I was looking into in terms of potential jobs. What draws me to Columbia's LSMA program is that I plan on attending graduate school part time, so as to gain professional as well as academic experience simultaneously. The LSMA is also flexible enough where I can design my own course of study while still adhering to a structured program. I've looked at other LSMA programs, and they just didn't seem to cut it. I also looked at more traditional masters, and they seemed difficult to manage while attending part-time. I also got into a NYU Gallatin's traditional masters program, which seems great. Columbia's program, however, actually ends up costing less than NYU's, as does Penn's. I've always been an excellent student, adept in research and study skills, so graduate school seems like a natural step for me. No matter what, I want an advanced degree, it's just a matter of where I want it from. I like the idea of teaching, but I am also into documentary, museum studies, and sociology. So, the idea of a liberal studies MA appeals to me because I won't be stuck on one thing for too long. What professional gains would be possible through such a program? I've asked recent LSMA grads, two of which are currently in law school. It seems like the possibilities aren't as restrictive as people think. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=715449&forum_id=3#8965164) |
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Date: December 2nd, 2007 3:11 PM Author: Crusty hyperventilating sneaky criminal sanctuary Well, it sounds like the LSMA might be the answer for you. If you really want to go part time, then I would say that there is no better program than LSMA, because despite its drawbacks, you can still get a very strong graduate education without the pressures that accompany a traditional program.
As I said, I'm a fan of the LSMA for the right student, but I do think that people tend to view it as a more versatile degree than it really is. If you simply want more education--and I believe that you can never go wrong with more education--and you want it in a flexible setting, then I say go for the LSMA, especially if you're willing to pay what they're asking. Just make sure that you can achieve all of your desired exit options with that particular degree. |