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ksg/sais/fletcher/sipa
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Date: March 31st, 2009 12:15 AM Author: mischievous chestnut filthpig candlestick maker Subject: ksg/sais/fletcher/sipa I was lucky enough to get into all four but it really is tough deciding where to go.
The plan is to go straight into PhD after completing my masters, preferably at the same institution, but the notoriously small window of opportunity for PhD applicants (plus I'm a non-chinese Asian student) precludes me from neglecting the possibility of having to secure a satisfactory job with only my masters. In other words, I need a degree that can serve me well in both situations either as I advance academically or seek a professional career as practitioner at the end of my masters study. My areas of interest, both academic and professional, are conflict resolution/management, post-conflict re-institution, and energy policy/security.
Money is not a concern, or at least not a significant one. I've already sort of ruled out SIPA for various reasons. I am frankly more attracted to the programs offered at SAIS and Fletcher, but Harvard name is a Harvard name and this is particularly true where I come from. Ultimately, I would like to be able to teach and do policy work at the same time or at least switch between the two as opportunities permit. Although I will mostly likely spend a considerable amount of time abroad during the early phase of my career, at some point down the road I think I'd want to come back and settle down in my home country. These are some of the thoughts that are going through my mind at this point as I plan on making my decision within the next couple of days. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 1:37 AM Author: henna coldplay fan point if you want energy/security, your best bet is SIPA. SAIS would be okay for this too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11292567) |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 10:06 AM Author: cordovan circlehead This is a no brainer. HKS.
For Asian people, nothing trumps the Harvard name unfortunately so your employment prospects would be much better with the HKS degree. Columbia would be the runner up. If you go to SAIS, they'll wonder why you're not a doctor.
In terms of PhD prospects, I guess it depends on your very specific interests and the prof you want to work with, but, again, a Harvard PhD trumps all in Asia. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 9:59 PM Author: mauve vigorous tank useless brakes I agree strongly.
Besides, KSG allows you to cross register in Harvard's fabled Faculty of Arts & Sciences departments, where you can get the recommendation letters needed to get into a solid PhD program here or abroad. There is no denying the best way to show your competence for doctoral studies is to actually take PhD level courses, not merely professional school ones.
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Date: April 6th, 2009 10:04 PM Author: Floppy blood rage not just in asia. i remember an aussie professor (who works in IR!!) telling me i should make yale my top choice program rather than sais because of yale's overall rep. not that it matters anyway... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11352473) |
Date: March 31st, 2009 10:20 AM Author: cerise contagious alpha place of business Subject: exact same situation I'm in the exact same situation with the same feelings. I've ruled out SIPA, but Fletcher, Harvard, and SAIS all bring something to the table. From what I've read on these forums, Fletcher has the most flexible curriculum, has the smallest and most close-knit community, and seems generally happy. Harvard has a great program, career services, and the Harvard name, but a limited international focus compared to the other two. SAIS is probably the strongest name of the 4 for IR (I'll be doing Strategic studies) and a lock for DC or foreign policy jobs, but outside the beltway and foreign policy careers, has more limited recognition.
I'm going to go to the open houses and see how I feel...let me know how you end up deciding and why. I'll do the same. |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 12:18 PM Author: mischievous chestnut filthpig candlestick maker Subject: wilco Will do. Unfortuantely I won't be joining you at any of the open houses simply because I can't. I am roughly 15 - 18 hours away from those schools, and moreover, I am an active duty Air Force officer (as some of you might have guessed by the subject of this post) who will be called into play if nK actually decides to go ahead with the missile test launch (missile... rocket... satellite... whatever... it's all the same) which I think they will.
To provide some update, Fletcher is no longer a consideration, at least for me, and I am sort of being forced into making the KSG decision. Most of the people I talked to over the past few days seem to agree that the Harvard name is and shall remain uncontested in the society to which I belong and will return, not to mention the fact that I am already being fed KSG contacts, professors and current students, regardless of where I stand on this issue. Fletcher's curriculum did seem very flexible and I am a huge fan of close-knit communities, but I was under the impression that such a wide array of concentrations somewhat compromised the quality and academic integrity of each of those separate concentrations. Forgive me if I sound as if I am talking right out of my ass, but even so, I think SAIS offers a much more glamorous curriculum in comparison to Fletcher and has great faculty especially in the fields that I would like to pursue. At the end of the day (and I am literally at the end of my day), I still need more time and advice. I am waiting to hear from a friend who is currently studying at SAIS. Hopefully, she will provide some meaningful insight into the programs in question. In the meanwhile, please let me know how the open houses went. zZz. |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 12:34 PM Author: disrespectful field boiling water SAIS or Fletcher for professional reasons, KSG for academic/PhD oriented ones ... and yeah you really do sound like you're talking out of your ass with regards to the curriculum comparison, haha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11294174) |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 12:55 PM Author: mischievous chestnut filthpig candlestick maker Subject: zZz Thanks!
Drunk, tired, and deprived of sleep. I guess all I was really trying to say was that SAIS offered more courses that I would personally want to take. I just read my previous post and you're right, it doesn't make much sense. Ha ha.
Back to SAIS vs KSG. For some reason, I always thought SAIS had a more academic feel to it than KSG which I have always considered a professional school. Can you please elaborate on your answer? |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 1:19 PM Author: disrespectful field boiling water Sure, in my personal opinion SAIS (and SFS) are beltway feeder schools that draw incredible faculty for a large part due to their location (ie. the prof can hold whatever lucrative private sector consulting job in DC, for example, and still teach/write). Attending SAIS allows you to network, interview, intern, and work inside the beltway for your 2 years as a student, while schools like KSG and Fletcher just don't offer similar options due to their location. You can definitely go to a PhD program straight from a SAIS Masters (many do), but that isn't as much the purpose of the school as sending grads straight into the DC bubble. KSG is a public policy school, not a traditional IR program, I think you can even specialize in like "human resources" or some crap. The Harvard name is what carries the school, if you talk to alums who went there for undergrad or HLS, it's seen as kind of the bastard child of the litter. Going there will allow you to network in a much more academic circle (as far as PhD programs are concerned), but yeah you can go straight to work after graduating too. For the most part you're in a win win situation, so congrats, you really can't lose here. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 8:09 PM Author: Olive multi-colored theater becky When I interviewed for SAIS, I had the impression that SAIS is much more a policy school and not so much an academic-oriented school. I don't know if I would have gone to SAIS if I knew I was going to apply for a PhD program right afterwards. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11351213) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 9:38 PM Author: Razzle Lay it is entertaining to read comments such as yours. i don't even know what it means to be a policy school versus an academic one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11352223) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 10:14 PM Author: mauve vigorous tank useless brakes I think more to the point is that the courses at SAIS are intended to prepare one for a professional policy career, whereas KSG, via the X-registration and cross-listed options, leaves the academic preparation door wide open. You could easily have one full year of *very* theoretical courses at Harvard, i.e. ripped right from the first year of a PhD program.
No one is trying to knock your SAIS degree or the impressive route you took after it, but you cannot honestly say that a course on political-economy at SAIS is going to be the same as a graduate level course on political-economy being taught out of FAS / CGIS. An exceptional SAIS student might be able to squeeze the same level of learning out of each syllabus, but it would not be required by any JHU prof, and he or she would be missing out on the vastly more challenging writing requirements which clearly demarcate the qualitative social sciences en route an elite PhD.
But as for the regular KSG curriculum, yes, the “oh so much more academic” claim would be very off mark. SAIS would certainly be as “theoretical,” if not more.
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Date: April 7th, 2009 12:31 AM Author: Razzle Lay didn't get the "ripped right from the first year of a phd program" impression from hks courses. (well not sure what phd program you are referring to...but anyway) where do you get your impressions from? i'd be the first to acknowledge that the mpa/id program has more "academic-focused" courses than the general sais curriculum but that is certainly not true for the mpa/mpp hks curriculum vs sais. god no.
btw, you seem to be confusing different parts of harvard. hks and fas/cgis are not affiliated with one another, not to mention that they are different parts of the university. the only part that is true in your msg is regarding the rigor of politicaly economy coursework out of FAS/CGIS which pertains to the peg program. hands off -- strong political economy coursework, but do you know how many hks MPP/MPA students take it? i'll help out - the number is close to zero. cgis has as much to do with hks as much as sais has anything in common with jhu econ. the relevant comparison that you attempted should have really been between SAIS and HKS PED courses. |
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Date: April 7th, 2009 1:26 AM Author: mauve vigorous tank useless brakes Reread the above post first.
I don't disagree that the general HKS courses are like a twist on B-school by way of difficulty (that is, not hard at all).
But, back to my original point, that does not mean the door is closed to FAS PhD courses in government / history / area studies if he is motivated enough to take on the challenge. I also know (first hand, former FAS student) the numbers are low - as they should be. Yet some people do it, and it can be an exceptional way to get all important rec letters. SAIS, by virtue of its location / academic structure, cannot offer you that option. Nor can Tufts. |
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Date: April 7th, 2009 7:27 PM Author: Razzle Lay i am still confused by parts of your message. like, fletcher literally has the same cross-registration privileges within harvard as hks. actually i take this back, the registration constraints on "registering from" regarding credit limits is more stringent for hks than it is for fletcher. so, fletcher students could actually have, in theory, more harvard credits than hks students. unless you were referring to some geography/location constraint, which is quite sensible to think about but not an insurmountable hurdle... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11361321) |
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Date: April 7th, 2009 11:51 PM Author: mauve vigorous tank useless brakes I forgot about Tufts in this regard. But if that is the angle you are going to play, why not just take the Harvard cache as well unless Fletcher gave you money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11364716) |
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Date: April 8th, 2009 1:23 PM Author: Razzle Lay I thought the ultimate objective in the original post was applying for a PhD program. While the Harvard name might hold a premium with the private sector over the Tufts one, I certainly don't think that a Harvard master's program (relative to a Fletcher program), all else equal, will increase your odds of getting into a PhD program. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11368552) |
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Date: April 9th, 2009 10:53 PM Author: Irradiated depressive Disclaimer: I am not a grad of any of these programs, or even of IR/public affairs. I have several friends who are, and my wife is an HBS grad. I have three masters degrees in a variety of unrelated fields from top-ranked institutions (incl Harvard) and have leveraged them into a non-traditional yet very successful career spanning healthcare and business...so take this all with a grain of salt. That said, I can relate to having "too many" good options and not knowing exactly where I wanted to end up. I felt such a strong visceral reaction to your post that I had to say a few things:
1) Congrats on having all of these options open. Quite a testament to you and your hard work.
2) It is extremely obvious to me that, if I were in your shoes knowing what I know after 33 years on the planet, that I would do the HKS option. I say this because:
* In the "real" world (outside of academia), I have found that network and name recognition are two of the most important things you can have (aside from talent, drive and the ability to work well with others).
* All of the programs are great, with some pluses and minuses that may or not matter to you in 1, 10 or 30 years from now. Since you don't have a burning desire that makes one option stand out obviously from the pack, go for brand: Harvard is Harvard the world around. Brand draws power. I'm sure you would rub elbows with impressive people no matter where you go, but my sense is that Harvard community (include HLS, HBS, etc.) is the most connected, powerful alumni base in the world, bar none.
* As other have stated, the HKS program is flexible. Yes, you can enroll in classes at Fletcher, MIT, etc., and a course difference here or there won't make a difference a few years from now. But you also have the world's greatest academic community right down the street at Harvard. And yes, there are cross-listed PhD-level econ courses you can take at GSAS (see e.g. ).
* Don't worry about proximity to the DC community. If you spend your time at HKS learning and meeting people, you will have all the connections you need to land a great gig if you decide not to go the PhD route. But more importantly, you will have a also have a strong network OUTSIDE of the Beltway, inside and outside of the IR community...something that I wonder if the DC schools can offer.
* None of the above hurts you if you end up going the PhD route...and yes, you may even impress the right people to network you way into the program you want at Harvard.
3) Regardless of everything above, follow your gut if it tells you otherwise.
Just my two cents. |
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Date: April 9th, 2009 10:57 PM Author: Irradiated depressive Oops, here is link to a cross-listed HKS/GSAS PhD level econ course that I meant to include above: http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/degreeprog/Syllabus.nsf/0/6E5EDA2D087A29D1852574B20055EA73/$FILE/syllabus.pdf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11384347) |
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Date: April 9th, 2009 11:14 PM Author: Razzle Lay this class is for harvard phd students only (the peg government track program, public policy phd, health policy and the health econ doctoral programs and the hbs DBA program). you are correct this is a cross-listed with gsas but most of the phd programs that i listed, which are required to take it are gsas programs. you will need a strong support from your hks or whatever advisor to get into this class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11384498) |
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Date: April 9th, 2009 11:25 PM Author: Irradiated depressive That really bursts my bubble...was counting on that option being around in a few years when I feel the itch to spend more time out of the real world!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11384626) |
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Date: April 11th, 2009 9:33 AM Author: mischievous chestnut filthpig candlestick maker Subject: HKS Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. I had already made the decision to attend HKS before I read your comment, but it definitely helped me feel more confident and comfortable about my decision. Now, I need to go find some money. Haha. Thanks again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11398763) |
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Date: April 11th, 2009 11:23 AM Author: Floppy blood rage "In the "real" world (outside of academia), I have found that network and name recognition are two of the most important things you can have (aside from talent, drive and the ability to work well with others)."
so by your own list, name recognition is #5 on a list of qualities that help someone succeed. i wouldn't say that's very high... |
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Date: April 11th, 2009 11:27 AM Author: Territorial Mexican you are pretty annoying, are you AZN? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=964460&forum_id=3#11399079) |