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Feel like my shitlaw firm has too high expectations of me

Because i'm graduating from a good school and a semi-impress...
....................,.......,....  05/02/12
as a biglaw corporate drone, i'm curious - what is shitlaw c...
.,.,.,,.,.,.,,..,..,,,...,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.  05/02/12
also curious abt this
United Against a Nuclear Latham  05/02/12
no idea. I don't even know if they'd qualify as shitlaw actu...
....................,.......,....  05/02/12
if they do *relatively* sophisticated work, it could be a pr...
.,.,.,,.,.,.,,..,..,,,...,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.  05/02/12
yeah. I think I prob sold myself short - I lost the job ad f...
....................,.......,....  05/02/12
"...they want to retain me if i do well." you m...
..,.....,,,,,...,,,,.....,,.,.,,,,.,.,.,,,.,  05/02/12
no, but they're looking to build from the bottom up, someone...
....................,.......,....  05/02/12
that's not shitlaw, little breh
bubblegum  05/02/12
sounds like non-shitlaw work with shitlaw pay. In some ways...
;;.;.;,;,;,;;...  05/02/12
It's only shit law pay because he asked for 50K. I bet if he...
Zoomer who thinks this is red lobster fb wall  05/03/12
why not? I base shitlaw based on salary, clientele, and numb...
....................,.......,....  05/02/12
$50k starting as a lawyer from a "good school?" d...
The King in the North  05/02/12
T30 but just outside T14.
....................,.......,....  05/02/12
50k for an attorney out of UCLA/UT/Vandy doing corporate wor...
;;.;.;,;,;,;;...  05/03/12
I know it is. But my salary will def increase after first ye...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
Agreed little brah. Any experience is better than nothing....
;;.;.;,;,;,;;...  05/03/12
Thanks dood. Only my really close friends know how much I'm ...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
Just for the record, you won't even be close to set for late...
;;.;.;,;,;,;;...  05/03/12
that's fair. thanks. you're a good poster on here, appreciat...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
haha, thanks. Just trying to give it to you straight. Also...
;;.;.;,;,;,;;...  05/03/12
same
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
lol you left money on the table. idiot.
Doggie Suicide*  05/02/12
Yeah but I just needed a job and went with what was stated i...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
dude if they are willing to hire you, they won't revoke the ...
Doggie Suicide*  05/03/12
Yeah oh well. Water under the bridge now
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
i think only shitlaw asks how much you expect to get paid du...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  05/03/12
Most jobs do this. You gotta be prepared, and you always go ...
Zoomer who thinks this is red lobster fb wall  05/03/12
I don't thinks so. Yeah if it's someone with experience but ...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  05/03/12
I feel like killing self now. But what could I do....I didn'...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
Don't worry about this. Worry about it when you are actuall...
BigDs  05/03/12
Thank you dooder. I am just being fucking neurotic due to ex...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
You did the right thing. You have a job (a lot of 3Ls don't)...
BigDs  05/03/12
thank you. I haven't started this job yet and trying to stay...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
breh you did the best you could and all told it doesnt sound...
,.,...,..,,.,:,;,;,.,.,:,:,.,.,:,.,.:,:.,:.::,.  05/03/12
thanks bro - i'm hoping in a year I'll see a good salary bum...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12
What's so great about your resume?
............;................;.............  05/03/12
honestly idk. I don't have any corporate experience, but lot...
....................,.......,....  05/03/12


Poast new message in this thread



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:50 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

Because i'm graduating from a good school and a semi-impressive resume. They said they will give me a significant bonus if I'm 'half as good as my resume' when I was inquiring about my salary, etc. for purposes of applying for school award. The problem is that I've learned the key to success in life is simply to over perform expectations. In this firm, I will know nothing about the area of law in which they practice (corporate), as I never took any courses in it besides corps and doing awful, and things will prob go over my head and I don't want them to think i'm a dumb. Is there any way to lower their expectations of me so I look good or what is the credited strategy for impressing when they already have too high expectations?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600422)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:51 PM
Author: .,.,.,,.,.,.,,..,..,,,...,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.

as a biglaw corporate drone, i'm curious - what is shitlaw corporate work?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600437)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:52 PM
Author: United Against a Nuclear Latham

also curious abt this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600451)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:54 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

no idea. I don't even know if they'd qualify as shitlaw actually, they're in MFH, smaller firm, 7 lawyers. They do commercial/corporate law and some real estate. I'll be working for one partner primarily.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600482)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:55 PM
Author: .,.,.,,.,.,.,,..,..,,,...,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.

if they do *relatively* sophisticated work, it could be a pretty good job

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600492)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:58 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

yeah. I think I prob sold myself short - I lost the job ad for this position, didn't think they'd give me an interview, they contacted me a little over a month later. I know they stated salary in the job ad, I could swear it was around $50K so when they asked salary expectations in the interview, that's what I cited and they seemed a bit surprised and asked if I could live on that. In this economy, as a graduating 3L without a job, I was happy to be working for a firm downtown and got along really well with the partner, my negotiating capacity was slim to none so I said yes, knew there's prob lots of others interviewing. But maybe I honestly miscalculated or didn't recall correctly - I think they were prob willing to offer more around $65-70, and they sent me an email saying if I do a good job there's room for significant bonuses and they want to retain me if I do well. I just feel a lot of pressure because I do like this firm, I just got the impression they were shitlaw based on the salary but the office is sweet.

Edi:; that said, they're not a large firm, I just looked up the partner I'm working for on Westlaw and only found a few cases, some small claims stuff. It's probably helping smaller/mid-size businesses, rather than the larger clientele that larger, more prestigious firms serve. They said they have one large real estate developer client. I guess they're not exactly shitlaw but they're not doing large corporate deals.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600527)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:14 PM
Author: ..,.....,,,,,...,,,,.....,,.,.,,,,.,.,.,,,.,

"...they want to retain me if i do well."

you mean this is a temp job?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600718)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:35 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

no, but they're looking to build from the bottom up, someone permanently to stay there, potentially make partner, etc. They only have 6-7 lawyers, whereas some BIGLAW firms will cut after a year or two.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600931)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:09 PM
Author: bubblegum

that's not shitlaw, little breh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600652)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:13 PM
Author: ;;.;.;,;,;,;;...

sounds like non-shitlaw work with shitlaw pay. In some ways better than straight shitlaw, in some ways even more demeaning.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600697)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:43 AM
Author: Zoomer who thinks this is red lobster fb wall

It's only shit law pay because he asked for 50K. I bet if he asked for 80-90K he would have gotten it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603719)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:25 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

why not? I base shitlaw based on salary, clientele, and number of lawyers. I'm pretty sure the salary they were offering was $50K, clients are prob small-mid-size businesses and only 6-7 lawyers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600835)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:33 PM
Author: The King in the North

$50k starting as a lawyer from a "good school?" define good school, brother.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600918)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:34 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

T30 but just outside T14.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600924)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:00 AM
Author: ;;.;.;,;,;,;;...

50k for an attorney out of UCLA/UT/Vandy doing corporate work in MFH? that's obscenely poor pay. You get that the non-independently contracted security guards standing at the federal court house make that w/o high school diplomas, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603580)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:10 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

I know it is. But my salary will def increase after first year with them substantially (if not I'm leaving) and they said they'll throw in 'significant bonuses' this year if my work is good. You're right that I should have asked for higher but srly what firms ask 3Ls to state salary expectations AND I could have swore they posted $50K in the job ad. I wish I emailed them to ask them for the posting again before the interview. But I like the partner I'm working for & had nothing else besides a legal aid offer so can't be picky dood.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603607)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:45 AM
Author: ;;.;.;,;,;,;;...

Agreed little brah. Any experience is better than nothing. Also, do remember that other people don't know how much you're making. Spin the shit out of the position and boast about the 10 million dollar M&A deal you wrote some middling memo for and it will look like you worked at a corp boutique paying a little under market.

App to other positions while you're working and when they ask about salary requirements say something like "I'm really impressed by the people and practice you have here, so salary isnt really that important of a factor for me. That said, I'd ask that you at least match my current salary of 85k." I know a girl who was making 55k and they totally bought this line and were like "Well, if you're taking the trouble to come to us, we feel like you should at least get a raise so we'll offer you 90."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603673)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:53 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

Thanks dood. Only my really close friends know how much I'm making here because I was discussing the job with them before I accepted, but besides that, you're right. I'm going to spin it... it looks prestigious - it's in a great location, great building, and I just remembered my firm did say that they work on multi-million dollar deals (they told me this after I accepted.. there's hardly any info about the firm online, they don't even have a website, and hardly any info on Westlaw. I think they just negotiate/mediate everything, so not a lot of info re. trial work they do.)

I will apply to other positions maybe after 10 months in.. want to see how I like it. They said they'll give me bonuses, but when do u think they'd do that, near the end of the year? Salary isn't everything for me actually, I just need experience at this point. I didn't even work for a firm in 2L (worked for the school) so it's no wonder I didn't have luck with 3L interviews. With some credible firm experience and good references/grades/school, I should be set if I want to lateral.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603677)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:02 AM
Author: ;;.;.;,;,;,;;...

Just for the record, you won't even be close to set for lateraling in MFH. Not to be a dick, but there are literally HLS grads with 2 years of experience at Dewey that are going to stagnate on the market for significant periods of time because hiring is just that soft. That said, you'll be significantly further than where you were and that's something. Just gotta spin everything you have to the best of your ability, keep learning, and keep hustling for positions. If you play it smart and are hungrier than other ppl, you'll make it. Just don't get complacent, the MFH legal market is a complete clusterfuck right now.

All in all, I'd say you're in a good spot overall as a fresh grad. Pat yourself on the back.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603681)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:05 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

that's fair. thanks. you're a good poster on here, appreciate it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603685)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:08 AM
Author: ;;.;.;,;,;,;;...

haha, thanks. Just trying to give it to you straight. Also, procrastinating from doing this paper.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603690)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:13 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

same

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603696)



Reply

Date: May 2nd, 2012 11:46 PM
Author: Doggie Suicide*

lol you left money on the table. idiot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20601846)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:11 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

Yeah but I just needed a job and went with what was stated in the job posting as the salary. I wasn't even sure id get the job, they said they had a lot of competition too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603613)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 11:20 PM
Author: Doggie Suicide*

dude if they are willing to hire you, they won't revoke the offer because you asked for more than they are willing to offer. they are prepared for some give and take. unless you ask for like 160k or something.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20609840)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 11:21 PM
Author: ....................,.......,....

Yeah oh well. Water under the bridge now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20609854)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 1:35 AM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

i think only shitlaw asks how much you expect to get paid during the interview

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603081)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:44 AM
Author: Zoomer who thinks this is red lobster fb wall

Most jobs do this. You gotta be prepared, and you always go pretty high. It's a negotiation. He should have asked for 100K they would have given him 80.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603720)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 10:44 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

I don't thinks so. Yeah if it's someone with experience but not a law student

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20609472)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:14 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

I feel like killing self now. But what could I do....I didn't know it was possible to negotiate salary as a 3L without an offer especially when I badly need a job and the salary was posted..unless it was incorrectly posted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603623)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:17 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603632)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:18 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603635)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:19 AM
Author: BigDs

Don't worry about this. Worry about it when you are actually working, and if it is actually an issue.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603637)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:22 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

Thank you dooder. I am just being fucking neurotic due to exams right now. Can you give me your opinion re. my salary on this thing? I wasn't unreasonable, with NO job offer in March as a 3L to simply say my expected salary was what was printed on the job ad, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603647)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:31 AM
Author: BigDs

You did the right thing. You have a job (a lot of 3Ls don't), decent money, and sounds like you are going to get great experience.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603655)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:34 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

thank you. I haven't started this job yet and trying to stay positive about it but thus forum is making me more neurotic than anything. I guess the concentration of BIGLAW people here makes it a different environment.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603660)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:52 AM
Author: ,.,...,..,,.,:,;,;,.,.,:,:,.,.,:,.,.:,:.,:.::,.

breh you did the best you could and all told it doesnt sound like a bad situation. now just try and perform competently, and in a few years you'll probably see a big salary bump.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603676)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:53 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

thanks bro - i'm hoping in a year I'll see a good salary bump. see my above msg to other poster re. moving to a different firm if not..

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603678)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:20 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603640)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:25 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603650)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 6:18 AM
Author: ............;................;.............

What's so great about your resume?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603793)



Reply

Date: May 3rd, 2012 6:21 AM
Author: ....................,.......,....

honestly idk. I don't have any corporate experience, but lots of leadership roles in student organizations/government/clinics. Also litigation experience with clinics, and an international moot competition.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603798)