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Taking ?'s on Chicago and Chicago firms
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:19 PM |
Date: July 7th, 2012 4:23 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:30 PM
EDIT: also look at Skadden and Sidley.
Baker pays market ($160k), not sure about bonuses. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:38 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:46 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:51 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:56 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:57 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:02 PM
I will say this- the neighborhood is only going to improve. Not a bad place to buy and flip in 4 years with a decent return. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:57 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:05 PM
The vibe is different because it has more of the no-character, off-the-rack condo buildings that shot up overnight whereas LP/Lakeview have actual character and legacy buildings that make them nicer overall, in my opinion. Bucktown was created by young professionals looking to buy, that neighborhood once sucked and the second it turned, people began buying in droves so all those condo buildings went up overnight. It was quite a boom, friends of mine made killings. It's like a potemkin village, however, seems cheap. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 12:01 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:49 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:27 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:48 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:11 PM
2) Lincoln Park if you want a neighborhood environment and like a little quiet. This means NOT living on Halsted, Lincoln, Clark, etc., and living more off the beaten path. Some awesome spots in LP.
3) Old Town. I really like it, it's a hybrid of LP and River North, in my opinion, and offers the best of everything including easy park/lake access plus good restaurants.
This list is cliche but I wanted to give you an honest assessment. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:50 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:48 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:00 PM
Mayer is #2, way above NYC/Cravath scale but probably below Kirkland. I believe first years were at $28,000 or something, MB has always bonused well.
Sidley is a notch above Cravath but lower than Mayer and way below K&E.
Winston bonuses aren't that hot at all. Jenner bonuses also suck but I think their base salary is higher for third years on.
I would imagine that Skadden/Latham are at the same level nationwide. No idea about Jones Day. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:05 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:08 PM
Plus, Sidley is not a clear #2 in everything, you have to be a bit more practice specific in Chicago to get a better understanding. As far as pure overall firm prestige, however, yes, Sidley is definitely, solidly #2.
One thing that also helps is that Sidley's character/work environment is really top notch. People tend to be happier there on average, in my opinion. Awesome office, partners invest in people, high end work, stable, etc. It's really a phenomenal firm, end to end, and easily has the best Washington office of any of the Chicago firms and probably the best west coast outposts too. Sidley has become more national and less Chicago. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:28 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:18 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:20 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:19 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:29 PM
Some of these are more BIGLAW than "boutique" but:
1) Goldberg Kohn especially for bankruptcy and real estate. Very good firm, but probably only 100 lawyers. They definitely work hard but it isn't a factory.
2) Ungaretti & Harris. Squarely midlaw but people there tend to like it, I don't think I would call them truly transactional focused, they do some lit too.
3) Chapman & Cutler. These guys are purely transactional, no litigation whatsoever. I think they do a lot of muni finance, however. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:21 PM |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:31 PM
2) Current superintendent is really not smart at all. The guy 2 chiefs ago was very smart, knew how to use strategy to keep things down. This guy thinks NYPD stuff will work in Chicago and he is wrong because our gang issues are so much worse here.
3) It's really been hot as fuck since March but if your policing strategy is dependent on weather, you have larger problems.
4) Unfortunately they disbanded all of the specialized police units that were really effective but also did a bit of coloring outside the lines a time or two. Gangs knew better than to mess with the 4 dudes in unmarked cars wearing black kevlar and a badge on a chain. Those were the real police and they knew their stuff. They also got engaged in some not so good stuff and were ultimately disbanded. You need super specialization and good street level intel to make things work here, not just beat cops answering a back logged radio.
5) The Cook County Courts are completely and totally fucked up beyond belief. Guys commit felonies and are on the street instantly. It's a joke. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 12:00 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 12:03 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 1:25 PM
Jenner second. Higher expectations but smaller classes these days makes it much easier to stand out. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:38 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:46 PM
Every chicago firm "targets" 2000, but 2000 gets you further at some places than others. I'd be scared of losing my job if I billed 2000 at kirkland.
As for bonuses at Schiff, I have no idea. I will say that the Chicago bonus outlooks is nothing special with the exception of Kirkland which is at the high end nationally and, at least in Chicago, followed by Mayer which may surprise some people. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 1:20 PM
EDIT: Actually, what I really want to know is hours spent at the office for these firms. Is face time generally a big deal in Chicago? Any firms in particular more known for this? |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:20 PM
K&E: I think if you're below 2,200 you might be in trouble. Probably don't distinguish yourself unless you're over 2,700. A good number will be at 2,900-3,000. K&E pushes their people very, very hard.
Sidley: I think 2,600 distinguishes you there, most are at 2200-2300. Not sure the bonus rewards you like it does at Kirkland.
Mayer: they cut the bonuses at 2,400, you won't get a higher bonus for exceeding it. They don't crush you as much there but a 300 hour month in banking/finance isn't unheard of.
Winston: grindhouse. Hours are tough there.
Jenner: also pushes people very hard, I think 2600 is a good number there.
Facetime? Probably depends on your group. I think it matters at Jenner, they do all these firm events and want you there. Kirkland doesn't give a fuck on facetime, same for Sidley. Mayer has a lot of work from home on weekends/nights but I'm sure deal teams get crushed on facetime. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 1:41 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:40 PM
Chicago is more down to earth, more friendly and more parochial but I obviously like it better.
For a lawyer? Again, if you're an IP mastaman, SF is way better, same if you like the cutting edge technology stuff. Chicago is probably better for biglaw overall. I'd venture there are less expectations in chicago, less hours and your buck goes further. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:54 PM
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:03 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:26 PM
nyc probably wants more facetime in the late evenings.
Otherwise, most V20's = 2200 average, V20-50 = 2100 average, V50 and below is probably 2000
Also, I think jorts' numbers are a bit high, at least for averages. When firms/associates actually post their numbers in surveys, etc., it always ends up being lower, rarely above 2000 even. The truth is probably somewhere in between |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:52 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:53 PM
I think the most important things for Chicago laterals would still be 1) ties to chicago, 2) school. I bet you it would be easier to lateral the chi offices of latham and skadden. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:35 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:58 PM
Ill say this- I've been told that Jenner has really been pipelining people into the non-equity/service partner category and that they are a bit underpaid relative to their peers.
Firms with phenomenal appellate practices definitely comp the brief writers well even if they are just income. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:13 PM |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:17 PM
EDIT: keep in mind, this shit is a total black box. At Sidley, the equity partners don't even know what the other equity partners make which is part of the collegiality theme. At Kirkland, everybody knows what everybody makes. Same with Schiff. |