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abandon biglaw offer to pursue commercial real estate dev?
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Date: June 13th, 2015 7:48 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig the situation: just-graduated 3L with an offer at a major market V50, low 100s in debt. through personal connections, some shit i learned in/prior to LS, and a ton of luck, i've been offered the opportunity to manage a ~$20m commercial real estate project from start to finish. details are still hazy but i would pull a salary around $75-90k for 2.5 years while working on the project and 25-30% equity in the project, which i estimate would be worth $8-10m net of debt in 7 years.
pros: the upside is obviously huge. i am more interested in the CRE opportunity. i would be self-employed and self-directed. i am generally ill-suited to working for others and skilled at managing people and projects.
cons: much higher chance of failure. the development is relatively high risk/high reward. i would live like a pauper while making loan payments until the payout, which is quite a ways down the road.
input welcome. seems like i know the answer already but it's always good to see if others have insights i missed. |
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Date: June 16th, 2015 12:32 AM Author: sienna internal respiration Bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28129858) |
Date: June 13th, 2015 7:49 PM Author: Spectacular Slap-happy Friendly Grandma Karate do not look back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112208) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 7:53 PM Author: Startling diverse water buffalo death wish Guess I can stop checking my email to see if Johnsmeyer has responded to my application to manage that Mega farm he inherited. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112251) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 7:54 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig sadly this is urban CRE and i won't know the joys and intricacies of BBW ranching... yet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112262) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 7:59 PM Author: blathering windowlicker CRE will always be there if you want it. BigLawl will not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112301) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:04 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig do you think this is true re: CRE? bearing in mind that this is not an entry-level associate position at a CRE firm but a chance to manage & be a full-fledged partner on a project. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112339) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:28 PM Author: Twinkling Nudist Kitty Senate (literally the worst advice ever poasted) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112517) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 1:58 AM Author: misanthropic greedy indian lodge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114519) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 10:21 AM Author: Appetizing whorehouse people who are hurt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115671) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 1:52 AM Author: Learning disabled swashbuckling associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114492) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:15 PM Author: insanely creepy mint library go do CRE you idiot. you know that you are better suited for, and more interested in it. Even if it doesn't pan out you'll get some experience and contacts and can keep progressing.
Whereas if you do biglaw, you'll make an extra 200k over that 2 year span (100k after taxes) but will have been miserable and have no relevant experience. |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:26 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig thank you. i think you're right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112504) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:30 PM Author: insanely creepy mint library btw, you will also probably suck at biglaw so I wouldn't factor in any possibility that you can maek it to partner. no offense, but most people suck, especially those that dont want to be lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112531) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:58 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig no, agreed that i will definitely suck. the choice is basically take this chance now or put in my 3 years to pay off my loans before doing something similar to this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112747) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 1:51 AM Author: scarlet sweet tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114486) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:17 PM Author: galvanic onyx parlor flame. but why the fuck would you even ask this question? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112440) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:27 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig like every idiot who attended LS, i am somewhat risk averse. i also have personal connections in the major market where my V50 would be. i'm trying not to factor that into what i think should be a professional decision, but it's tricky. (the CRE gig is in my secondary city hometown.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112510) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:32 PM Author: ivory digit ratio reading party THIS IS YOUR FUCKING BEST CHANCE IN LIFE YOU IDIOT. DO NOT PASS THIS UP. EVEN IF YOU FAIL COMPLETELY, YOU WILL BE 100% MORE PREPARED FOR 100% MORE INTERESTING AND MORE LUCRATIVE SHIT THAN BIGLAW. DO NOT FUCK THIS UP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112549) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 10:21 AM Author: Appetizing whorehouse people who are hurt cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115676) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:19 PM Author: ivory digit ratio reading party Take the CRE opportunity, aggressively refi your loans down to <3.0% interst, do not look back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112454) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:24 PM Author: Spectacular Slap-happy Friendly Grandma Karate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112487) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 8:29 PM Author: Twinkling Nudist Kitty Senate A lot more shit on your college and law school campuses were named for real estate developers than for lawyers. HTFT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28112522) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 11:26 PM Author: Glittery mental disorder fortuitous meteor Let's switch up the facts w a little hypo. What if the guy had an MBB associate offer instead of Biglaw? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28113613) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:25 AM Author: Glittery mental disorder fortuitous meteor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114066) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 1:58 AM Author: misanthropic greedy indian lodge Depends, how FRATTY is the team he's joining (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114517) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 2:20 AM Author: Glittery mental disorder fortuitous meteor BAIN Dallas (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114641) |
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Date: June 13th, 2015 11:28 PM Author: vengeful generalized bond box office Didn't read OP but yes of course (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28113627) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 2:00 AM Author: thriller coffee pot property "i am generally ill-suited to working for others and skilled at managing people and projects."
let me stop u right there chief |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 2:22 AM Author: Glittery mental disorder fortuitous meteor This thread is a good example of the doors law school can open w focused efforts. I've noticed especially employers in the real estate space LOVE hiring fresh law school grads and new lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28114653) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 7:08 AM Author: Glittery mental disorder fortuitous meteor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115319) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 7:15 AM Author: Stirring ratface toaster You should probably think about why this multimillion dolar opportunity was not offered to an experienced RE project manager and/or snapped up by said individual. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115322) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 9:59 AM Author: Free-loading Carmine Stage Patrolman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115590) |
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Date: June 16th, 2015 12:04 AM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig "There is an old story about a financial economist and passionate defender of the efficient markets hypothesis who was walking down the street with a friend.
The friend stops and says, "Look, there is a $20 bill on the ground!"
The economist turns and coolly replies, "Can't be. If there was a $20 bill on the ground, somebody would have already picked it up." |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 9:59 AM Author: Free-loading Carmine Stage Patrolman what experience do you have managing people and projects? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115594) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 10:31 AM Author: fragrant hyperventilating heaven marketing idea TBF not sure what kind of advice you even hope to get here. You seem to understand the criteria well enough, less certain higher reward with more stable but lower returns. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115704) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 11:42 AM Author: cordovan supple theater stage Op - listen to Colt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28115907) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:25 PM Author: submissive travel guidebook electric furnace Flame. What the fuck kind of CRE project pays out that much in equity to the project manager? And are you saying you only get equity at the end?
This sounds like a retail construction project (anchored strip center in the burbs), but still probably flame. |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:26 PM Author: ivory digit ratio reading party It sounds like he is talking about a back-in after payout, which wouldn't be uncommon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116126) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:32 PM Author: Appetizing whorehouse people who are hurt his prediction is also probably wildly optimistic, but that's not really the point. the point is that even if he makes far, far less than he expects on that back end, even nothing, it's a better route to go down than biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116154) |
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Date: June 15th, 2015 11:59 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig this is correct (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28129520) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:29 PM Author: Poppy Offensive Shitlib So you have no experience managing commercial development...
but someone is willing to pay you 30% equity to act as a project manager without any skin in the game yourself...
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:31 PM Author: vivacious hospital newt Cr OP has some further explaining to do before I can make the flame/not flame determination (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116145) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:32 PM Author: Appetizing whorehouse people who are hurt what difference does it make? it'll get him good experience in a much better career path than biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116157) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:35 PM Author: Poppy Offensive Shitlib the difference is, if he is lying about one thing, he may be lying about a lot of things and it may not actually be a better career path. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116163) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:46 PM Author: ivory digit ratio reading party Not disagreeing but that line of discussion is not super helpful to him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116212) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:35 PM Author: irate station I'm guessing it is some hookup from his dad or uncle or someone in the family. Obviously no one gets 30% of the promote on a $20mm development deal with zero experience without a major hookup. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116167) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:37 PM Author: Alcoholic Maize Den yep that's how u make it in amerika. these faggots then tell Russian girls they are self made men. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116179) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:43 PM Author: Poppy Offensive Shitlib Even if it is a major hookup, no one/group with $20 million is going to give someone with no experience the type of responsibility that is reasonably compensated by a 25-30% promote.
Unless it is literally his dad's money, the dad is going to be doing the work, and there are no other financial partners.
Even non-capital partners have to have some skin in the game, or a tremendous amount of service potential. |
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Date: June 15th, 2015 11:44 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig presumably you understand that a $20 million project does not require investors to put up $20 million in cash (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28129350) |
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Date: June 15th, 2015 11:43 PM Author: Emerald Razzle Legend Filthpig there's a family connection to the prospective investors, yes. without giving too much detail, the project is one that i identified myself (though i obviously would have to learn an absolute fuckton). it's viable largely because of a combination of tax credits that are not commonly used or well understood in this market, but that i happened to study in great detail in LS. so i do add some value. i have pretty unimpeachable leadership/mgmt credentials from before LS – apologies but not going to give more detail.
30% was probably on the optimistic side, but i am going to try to pull it. i would probably be happy with 15-20% if that's all i can get. |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:38 PM Author: Twinkling Nudist Kitty Senate it sounds almost as crazy as the idea that somebody with no prior experience as a corporate attorney might be offered a $160,000 starting salary and partner-track job at a large law firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116188) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:44 PM Author: irate station Well, except that happens all the time. What the OP is describing almost literally has never happened....unless the OP is the son, nephew, brother or twink of whoever runs the development company. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#28116208) |
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Date: June 14th, 2015 12:45 PM Author: Poppy Offensive Shitlib $160,000 is compensation for potential which is signaled by a lot of years of going to good colleges and or law schools.
Most of these jobs are no partners track except in name. |
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Date: June 16th, 2015 12:09 AM Author: shaky hall telephone >>Most of these jobs are no partners track except in name.
Wait, WHAT?! |
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Date: April 21st, 2017 3:26 PM Author: Glittery mental disorder fortuitous meteor bros should I take 3.5mm/yr for a CRE project or work at DLA Piper??? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2907676&forum_id=2#33128613) |