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9th Circuit finds transgender Mexican legally required to immigrate to US
| Contagious School | 09/03/15 |
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| Citrine dopamine garrison | 09/03/15 |
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: September 3rd, 2015 2:23 PM Author: Contagious School http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2015/09/03/13-73744.pdf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28681736) |
Date: September 3rd, 2015 2:23 PM Author: razzle ultramarine pistol plaza Just won Trump another 10,000 votes... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28681745) |
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Date: October 30th, 2015 2:16 AM Author: Ivory candlestick maker donald trump is des moines: "DID YOU GUYS READ THAT 9TH CIRCUIT OPINION?!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29073082) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 10:02 AM Author: brass rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369287) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 2:28 PM Author: saffron set place of business So an illegal alien two time Dui offender who injured someone in a drunk driving accident can't be deported because they are transgender?
Lol at this country. Fuck that |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 2:32 PM Author: bronze know-it-all menage "The BIA concluded that AvendanoHernandez failed to show that the Mexican government will more likely than not consent to or acquiesce in her torture. This conclusion is not supported by the record."
The Ninth Circuit considered it established that the Mexican government is acquiescing in torture? That's their finding? Holy shite. No one believes that. The judges who wrote the opinion don't believe it. |
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Date: December 1st, 2015 2:36 PM Author: Pontificating comical university Mexico is a country with legal gay marriage. LOL @ them acquiescing in the torture of a tranny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29284052) |
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Date: December 30th, 2016 1:32 PM Author: cruel-hearted heady incel people who are hurt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#32263029) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 2:32 PM Author: Vigorous Piazza Ape Ftge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28681814) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 8:14 AM Author: iridescent slimy electric furnace cuckoldry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28686965) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 3:20 PM Author: saffron set place of business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682135) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 3:28 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison The opinion glides right past it, but the petitioner was an illegal.
So, if you're a Mexican transgender and can sneak into America, then you become undeportable-- even if you commit very serious crimes.
Libs, explain.
---- "Shortly after her mother’s death, in July 2000, Avendano Hernandez unlawfully entered the United States and settled in Fresno, California. . ." |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 3:30 PM Author: saffron set place of business it's insanity (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682192) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 3:31 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Have patience, brother. I am sure the libs will be ITT to explain any second. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682194) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:01 PM Author: Umber excitant stag film mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682676) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:50 PM Author: charismatic flesh roast beef goyim (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684625) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 12:08 AM Author: Slippery cumskin mexican it's governed by the INA, it's probably the right result even if no one wants more mentally ill trannies in amerikkka (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28685725) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 10:30 AM Author: ruby pungent point fanboi You think citizens can be removed? If you write immigration opinions all day long you can assume you're not dealing with a citizen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369373) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 3:34 PM Author: Milky Pozpig Box Office Daaaaaaamn I thought this would be fake. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682209) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:59 PM Author: turquoise swollen library (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682661) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 3:34 PM Author: electric crotch resort This is some fucked up shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682211) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:00 PM Author: topaz stock car "Similarly, her father beat her for being a “faggot” after he saw a hickey left on her chest by her brother while he raped her. " |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:14 PM Author: bronze know-it-all menage The majority opinion has to convert that to torture by the Mexican government. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682381) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:52 PM Author: charismatic flesh roast beef goyim OH MY GOD THEY USED THE WORD FAGGOT!!! Quick give this tranny a billion dollars!
Libs are so mentally ill it blows my mind,
also, kind of funny how the court doesn't even bother to explain how it is that a bunch of poor Mexicans are using English, rather than Spanish, homophobic slurs. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:01 PM Author: emerald persian death wish Jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682336) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:08 PM Author: passionate toaster spot i am rock hard reading the first paragraph under BACKGROUND (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682359) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:09 PM Author: Maniacal tanning salon seems like the decisions rests on the finding that she had been raped by police officers in mexico.
how exactly was this determined to the courts satisfaction? is this simply a matter of the defendant (i guess petitioner in this case?) asserting that it had happened and the other side not bothering to challenge the claims?
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:13 PM Author: saffron set place of business I'm sure that all of the mexican police officers committing the rapes admitted to the rape in either proper depositions or as a subpoenaed witness to the original proceedings. Ditto with the tranny's dad and brother. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682378) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:16 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison While we're on the topic, supposedly they knew the petitioner was transgender because of estrogen and wearing hair in a ponytail. So... they're afraid for their life, but not enough to get a haircut? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682396) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:19 PM Author: saffron set place of business you.....bigot.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682411) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 7:36 AM Author: hyperventilating garnet twinkling uncleanness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28686902) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:15 PM Author: orange irradiated dingle berry hospital Libs: Trump is RAYTHIST for saying Mexico sends us rapists and criminals. btw this tranny can never return to Mexico because she'll be raped or killed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682391) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:16 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison OH SHIT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682398) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:26 PM Author: Wine confused base jewess cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682463) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:02 PM Author: Odious Olive National Patrolman 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682678) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:56 PM Author: cerebral bipolar theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684660) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 10:08 PM Author: dark hairless bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684723) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 7:42 AM Author: Overrated Property Factory Reset Button (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28686907) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 7:57 AM Author: spectacular pea-brained locale headpube (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28686922) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 10:29 AM Author: Jet-lagged pocket flask windowlicker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28687390) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 10:30 AM Author: Appetizing Glassy Degenerate Senate Holy shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28687402) |
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Date: December 1st, 2015 1:50 PM Author: Thirsty chest-beating therapy killshot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29283771) |
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Date: December 1st, 2015 2:34 PM Author: yellow preventive strike filthpig devastating. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29284043) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 10:39 AM Author: sadistic 180 mad-dog skullcap game set match (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369424) |
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Date: February 2nd, 2016 12:41 PM Author: balding puce location boltzmann (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29737113) |
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Date: December 30th, 2016 1:33 PM Author: cruel-hearted heady incel people who are hurt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#32263038) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:00 PM Author: mauve native black woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#35743710) |
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Date: July 16th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: emerald persian death wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#36437724) |
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Date: July 16th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: dull harsh athletic conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#36437892) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:52 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Libs haven't explained yet. Maybe they didn't see the thread? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682625) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:52 PM Author: sinister primrose home I'm a dumb. can someone ELI5 the ruling to me? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682626) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:55 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Normally, the illegal immigrant would have been deported on account of a DUI conviction/violating parole. The immigrant said they couldn't be deported, because they wouldn't be safe in Mexico on account of being transgender. The Ninth Circuit accepted this argument. If this precedent stands, then it will become effectively impossible to deport Mexican immigrants who claim they are transgender in states covered by the Ninth, including Arizona and California. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682640) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:58 PM Author: sinister primrose home "The immigrant said they couldn't be deported, because they wouldn't be safe in Mexico on account of being transgender. The Ninth Circuit accepted this argument."
Why did the court accept this argument. Is there some law on this specific immigration point that protects transgenders (or a member of a protected class)? |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:00 PM Author: Wine confused base jewess convention against torture (CAT) basically says that you can't be deported to a home country where it's more likely than not you'll be tortured. torture can be done by the government or by government acquiescence.
basically if a trans latina says she got raped by la policia and is found credible by an immigration judge, you can't deport in the ninth.
she will never be on a path to citizenship but will have a work permit and basically won't ever be deported. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:04 PM Author: sinister primrose home Ah I see. So I could be ANY KIND of immigrant from Mexico but if I could show that my life would be in danger if I am deported, then in the 9th, I would be able to stay in America. However, this ruling would probably be taken advantage of by immigrant trannies who can simply claim rape and they could stay, correct? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682696) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:05 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain "if I could show that my life would be in danger if I am deported, then in the 9th, I would be able to stay in America"
I think that's true in any circuit, but I'm not an immigration bro. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:09 PM Author: Wine confused base jewess it kind of varies - asylum and withholding of removal are discretionary forms of relief, so it's possible they could deny you these forms of relief if you had, say, two DUIs (as this translatina did).
if you could show that you'd be tortured (as defined above), CAT would preclude the us government from deporting you. ie, the us government would be violating the convention by deporting you. it is generally easy for trannies from latin america to win on testimony alone because there is a lot of NGO documentation of tranny murder / rape by police. of course, there is also a ton of immigration fraud... |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:14 PM Author: sinister primrose home thanks. this makes sense. Wow, now I really want to vote for trump. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682780) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:01 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison The Convention against Torture, which the US is a party to, says that you won't send an immigrant back home if they'll be tortured by the gov't when they get there. The Ninth Circuit read this very broadly and found that Mexican cops/soldiers would "torture" the petitioner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682675) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:03 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain The law protects people who show that they will more likely than not be tortured by or with the acquiescence of the government. She provided unrebutted evidence that she had been tortured by the government at least twice before due to her gender identity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682690) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:07 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Lol @ unrebutted. The petitioner had nothing but their own testimony. How, exactly, is the government supposed to rebut that? If the standard is "take the person's word for it," then no immigration petition will ever be denied. HTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682720) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:09 PM Author: Wine confused base jewess pro-tip: this is how most LGBT asylum works anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682740) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:09 PM Author: sinister primrose home so really, this ruling effectively gives immigrant trannies a free pass, correct? They could claim they suffered hardship because of their "gender" and they could then remain in America. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682743) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:12 PM Author: Wine confused base jewess correct. you need to state credibly that you were raped by the police, provide some third-party evidence that there's anti-tranny violence in central america, and then you win. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682765) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:13 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain "hardship" isn't the standard for this case. Torture is. Rape and beatings generally meets that standard.
The bigger question, I think, is whether you will have to show past personal torture to make a winning argument. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:11 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain I don't think it's that bad (i.e., I don't assume that all immigrants and immigrants' attorneys are liars). Their testimony has to be credible, at a minimum, I think. There may be a higher burden than that. A friend of mine does a lot of asylum work and it seems like you've got to have some good evidence of persecution back home.
At any rate, it's not like this person's story is unbelievable. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:54 PM Author: charismatic flesh roast beef goyim Kill yourself for indulging this insanity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684645) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 10:11 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain Yeah, cause people in Mexico would *never* behave brutally to someone, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684746) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 10:01 PM Author: Black mediation bbw Trannies are some of the most unreliable people in the world. They are histrionic fags. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684695) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 10:13 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain Maybe so. But nobody seemed to be contesting the truth or falsity of her allegations in this case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684753) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 10:08 PM Author: avocado house-broken site stain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684722) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 4:59 PM Author: Maniacal tanning salon "im transwoman"
"you don't look very feminine"
"all the more reason why my life will be in danger" |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:02 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison (guy about to have breakfast at an immigration firm) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682677) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 5:03 PM Author: Wine confused base jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28682682) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 6:01 PM Author: Bateful narrow-minded area How does Trump go about fucking with shitlibs in the courts when he is elected? Try to impeach them? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28683151) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:38 PM Author: passionate toaster spot "...now let him enforce it" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684547) |
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Jfc |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 10:27 AM Author: abusive theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28687382) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:49 PM Author: cerise underhanded crackhouse ceo When the Soviet tanks are crushing your children just remember that you deserve it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684615) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2015 9:55 PM Author: charismatic flesh roast beef goyim If congressional republicans weren't nullos they would immediately send a bill to the presidents desk that vacates this retarded shitlib interpretation of the CAT and force him to veto it, which he will because he's an unhinged shitlib lunatic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28684653) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 12:02 AM Author: charismatic flesh roast beef goyim (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28685662) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 7:45 AM Author: Cocky Useless Brakes Brunch Conservaheroes should be happy. At least this trans-person is not having anchor babies, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28686910) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 10:29 AM Author: Appetizing Glassy Degenerate Senate (guy not familiar with transpeople going off their hormones temporarily for the sake of having kids, leading to retarded shitlib news stories about "OMFG a pregnant man!!!") (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28687389) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 3:45 PM Author: titillating temple telephone Every normal human: That's not a man....
Shitlibs: CISSSSSSS!!! |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 10:33 AM Author: Startling Institution Police Squad Someone get this in the hands of @TeamTrump16, thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28687418) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 3:41 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Libs never explained. I guess they missed the thread? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28689333) |
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Date: September 4th, 2015 6:53 PM Author: carmine bat shit crazy striped hyena corner Great find Judge Nguyen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#28690455) |
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Date: October 30th, 2015 1:28 AM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison I was reminded today that libs never explained. Bumping so they can. TYIA. :). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29072946) |
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Date: December 1st, 2015 1:49 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Libs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29283759) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 9:57 AM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3057446&mc=32&forum_id=2 Hmmmm.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369261) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 10:29 AM Author: ruby pungent point fanboi Sorry but that's how immigration law works. Want to change it? Then withdraw from the relevant treaties and repeal the immigration statutes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369367) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 10:37 AM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison "Nobody can be deported if they say they were a transexual and raped by a soldier" is not actually in the treaty. What's more, the immigration judge found that the petitioner should be deported. The shitlibs on the 9th circuit took it upon themselves to add a "no deportation for trannies" clause to the treaty using, ironically, tortured legal reasoning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369412) |
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Date: December 13th, 2015 10:41 AM Author: charismatic flesh roast beef goyim sorry but you obviously dont LAW like that pumo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29369430) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2016 7:35 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Just remembered that libs never explained. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29657540) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2016 7:36 PM Author: curious wrinkle mental disorder (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29657547) |
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Date: February 2nd, 2016 12:33 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Libs are coming out of the woodwork today, so I hope today is the day they finally explain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29737064) |
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Date: February 2nd, 2016 12:34 PM Author: coiffed kitty cat I don't think we can fairly judge this decision until we see pics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#29737075) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:45 AM Author: Fragrant alpha hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#35743595) |
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Date: December 30th, 2016 1:31 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Bumped in honor of "deported 10 times rapist" fucklibs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#32263025) |
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Date: July 29th, 2017 9:01 AM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison I just remembered that libs never explained.
Libs? |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:39 AM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison Libs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#35743537) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:01 PM Author: razzle-dazzle clear tank depressive (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#35743713) |
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Date: July 16th, 2018 1:46 PM Author: Citrine dopamine garrison I just remembered libs never explained. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#36437697) |
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Date: July 16th, 2018 1:51 PM Author: emerald persian death wish They never do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2980082&forum_id=2#36437728) |