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LSAT Question
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:33 PM Author: Hyperventilating disturbing sanctuary While it is true that bees' vision is well suited to the task of identifying flowers by their color, it is probable that flowers developed in response to the type of vision that bees have, rather than bees' vision developing in response to the flower color.
Which one of the following, if true, most strongly supports the statement above?
a) many insects that have vision very similar to that of bees do not depend on perceiving an object's color
b) some flowers rely on insects other than bees
c) the number of different species of lowers is greater than the number of different species of bees.
d) many nonflowering plants rely on bees.
e) Present-day bees rely exclusively on flowers for their food |
Date: February 12th, 2017 6:36 PM Author: beady-eyed codepig school cafeteria pretty sure it is (a) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606101) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:38 PM Author: Magenta Thirsty Pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606112) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:52 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt e. Because if flowers are actually adapting to bees, then it stands to reason that bees the flowers did not "target" would die out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606203) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:53 PM Author: charismatic navy doctorate principal's office but (e) is about bees not relying on any other food sources than flowers, not about flowers relying solely upon bees (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606208) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:53 PM Author: Magenta Thirsty Pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606211) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:56 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt Idgaf about what the lsac writers think it is. Other species are irrelevant here. E strengthens the statement far more: a food source adapts so that certain bees can find it, and now all modern bees use that food source. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606235) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:58 PM Author: Magenta Thirsty Pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606250) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:59 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt If that's so, then e is right, because e has a nexus with the actual critters at issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606260) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:01 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606271) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:03 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt How so?
Am I supposed to assume bees are a monolithic group that have always had color vision?
This is not supposed to be a test of knowledge! |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:07 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606325) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:10 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt No the question says that flowers likely developed colors in response to bee vision rather than the other way 'round, and asks which statement most supports this statement of probability.
A does not support the statement, in fact it adds nothing unless you interpolate some assumed facts. E does support the statement. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:02 PM Author: Magenta Thirsty Pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606279) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:04 PM Author: floppy bawdyhouse mood (e) does not strengthen the statement. not even the first part of the statement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606302) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:08 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt Why not?
T1. There are certain bees with color vision, certain without T2. Flowers mutate to get colorful, attracting certain bees *T3. The non-color vision bees die out; present-day bees rely solely on flowers. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:14 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606389) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:17 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt ? It's a statement about probability and causation. That means I need to compare possible worlds.
Knocking down a bad theory, as A does, does not make a statement more probable.
But I've given a causal account of a possible world implied by E that makes the statement more likely. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:16 PM Author: floppy bawdyhouse mood you said it yourself
"this is not supposed to be a test of knowledge"
following the logic of the passage alone (e) is irrelevant |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:18 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt Knowledge != imagination grounded in the text of the question (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606426) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:20 PM Author: floppy bawdyhouse mood in this case, yes it does. your T3 is entirely outside of the scope of the logic of the question strictly speaking. pretend you were a student who hand't been exposed to biology. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606443) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:28 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt Look, I get that a is the correct lsac answer. I just think it is wrong to think that knocking down a bad argument somehow makes a statement more likely. There are an infinite number of unsound theories and erroneous arguments that you can make as to any statement of fact; you don't make the statement more likely by knocking any one of them down.
Further, I think it is fair to posit possible worlds based on a very crude understanding of evolution in a question that asks about adaptations && bees && flowers.
That said, the important meta-skill here is to learn what the retard test designers are on about. On the LSAT they want you to evaluate the strength of dumb arguments in various ways; so in this question, you want to find some dumb argument that can be strengthened.
As an aspie, I found studying for the LSAT painful, for just this reason - it seems to do away at times with the ordinary rules of reason in favor of a logic internal to the test. That said, it is an okay exam.
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:31 PM Author: Hyperventilating disturbing sanctuary what did you get on the lsat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606521) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:32 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt 176 :/
Got four straight 180s on practice tests going in. Then got two wrong on reading comp. Still sore about it. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:40 PM Author: Hyperventilating disturbing sanctuary how did your law school/legal career end up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606595) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:43 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt Ohio biglaw, I am living it up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606628) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:44 PM Author: Hyperventilating disturbing sanctuary JONES DAY MASTERMAN.
or vorys sater |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:45 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt I can't tell if ur the ''''' pumo who hates me so I'm getting scared (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606647) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:47 PM Author: Boyish cowardly pistol national Which of the following can be inferred from the statements above?
(A) You're talking to Doobs |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:48 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606677) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:31 PM Author: Magenta Thirsty Pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606525) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:35 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt You've been very good at perpetuating the gospel of this dumb question to which you looked up the answer, less good at actually refuting a single argument I've made. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606552) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:34 PM Author: floppy bawdyhouse mood man i'm just giving the lsac answer. op posted an lsat question so i and everyone else here evaluated under lsat rules. it's an unstated part of the game. not making a statement on absolute truths here.
nowhere did i say your answer was dumb, just wrong. no need to turn it into a sermon on the lsat. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:36 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt Haha sorry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606557) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:10 PM Author: Boyish cowardly pistol national if present-day bees relied exclusively on flowers for food, it stands to reason that they adapted their vision to find flowers. especially due to the 'present-day' part.
(e) would strengthen if it said present-day flowers relied exclusively on bees for pollination. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:12 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt No no I'm too aspie for you my friend, you can define adaptation as mutation PLUS culling, my answer is that bees already had the color sensing type and the others died out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606372) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:16 PM Author: Boyish cowardly pistol national is your argument that the other bees magically lost their ability to find flowers once the color change occurred? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606410) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:19 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt No they died. That's the point, they had no food source. It's a possibility, which is enough to strengthen a statement of possibility. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606433) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:17 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm where does the question say bees relied exclusively on flowers for food? You assumed that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606419) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:21 PM Author: charismatic navy doctorate principal's office that's the hypothetical suggested in (e), and presumably he is exploring the implications of it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606450) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:29 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606510) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 6:59 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606259) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:07 PM Author: Hyperventilating disturbing sanctuary explain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606324) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:08 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm Copying from above.
The question basically says that bees don't GAF about color. Since they don't GAF about flower color, they might eat other shit too-- it doesn't tell you anything about what they eat (so it's not e).
(a) is right because if you are an insect who has a bees vision, you don't GAF about flower color. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:08 PM Author: Boyish cowardly pistol national what an SPS question. none of them actually strengthen the causal conclusion. (a) weakens an alternative explanation of causality, which is as close as it gets.
EDIT: actually, it's better than I initially thought. (a) makes it less likely that bees developed color vision to find flowers, as their system of vision does not depend on color given the information we have about other insects with similar systems. it still offers no real support for flowers developing color in response to bees, but knocking out an alternative explanation is a common LSAT strengthen question CR. |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:12 PM Author: Garnet zippy volcanic crater MOST strongly supports EDIT: MOST strongly supports |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:12 PM Author: Garnet zippy volcanic crater A the only statement that makes it less likely that bees are reacting 2 flower color |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:15 PM Author: Provocative impertinent faggot firefighter pisswyrm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606399) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:19 PM Author: beady-eyed codepig school cafeteria Jesus Christ you guys are dumb. The link between bee vision and flower color is either (1) bees developed to respond to flowers, (2) flowers developed in response to bees, or (3) a coincidence. If you can eliminate either (1) or (3), then (2) becomes more likely. The answer is (a) because it helps you to eliminate option (1) and thus strengthens explanation (2).
If bees developed vision specifically to see color, you wouldn’t expect a bunch of insects that don’t give a fuck about color to develop the exact same type of vision. Since insects that don't give a fuck about color have the same vision as bees, it suggests that the bees developed their type of vision independently of flower color (i.e. not in response to the color of flowers).
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:31 PM Author: Laughsome Sienna Public Bath Newt The question is to choose the answer that makes the statement more likely, NOT to evaluate as between the two given causal directions! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606523) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:33 PM Author: Boyish cowardly pistol national his explanation is 100% correct. please state your LSAT score before we engage you further. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606536) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:22 PM Author: Razzmatazz round eye i got a 172, but i'd be fucking guessing on this question. that is unless i just got way dumber since i took the test. though in all fairness, i would have guessed (a). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606460) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:25 PM Author: Garnet zippy volcanic crater if u had 2 guess what wd u guess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606486) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 7:28 PM Author: Razzmatazz round eye i can't tell if i actually would have guessed (a) or if i think i would have guessed it because i had scrolled a little too far and saw the first answer. mostly because it seemed like there was some depth there, but i just couldn't get it, like a pyncheon novel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32606505) |
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Date: February 12th, 2017 9:28 PM Author: Odious Cocky Community Account Temple Got 49/51 on LR and barely made it thru LS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3524157&forum_id=2#32607407) |