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JUDGE POSNER ADMITS TO DECIDING CASES ON THE BASIS OF FAIRNESS, NOT LAW
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:51 AM Author: bright hot dilemma https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/us/politics/judge-richard-posner-retirement.html
He called his approach to judging pragmatic. His critics called it lawless. “I pay very little attention to legal rules, statutes, constitutional provisions,” Judge Posner said. “A case is just a dispute. The first thing you do is ask yourself — forget about the law — what is a sensible resolution of this dispute?”
The next thing, he said, was to see if a recent Supreme Court precedent or some other legal obstacle stood in the way of ruling in favor of that sensible resolution. “And the answer is that’s actually rarely the case,” he said. “When you have a Supreme Court case or something similar, they’re often extremely easy to get around.” |
Date: September 15th, 2017 10:51 AM Author: aromatic insane spot Awesome. As they should be (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34216956) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:35 PM Author: cracking box office messiness Horseshit.
That's terrible for for predictability. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:36 PM Author: aromatic insane spot Jajajajaja (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218676) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:40 PM Author: marvelous church building just predict what's fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218695) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: cracking box office messiness Flame or not flame?
If not flame, that's largely what structured law is for.
It provides the rules for determining what's fair. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:45 PM Author: aromatic insane spot Laws aren't fair though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218731) |
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Date: October 16th, 2017 7:12 PM Author: bright hot dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34458247) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:22 PM Author: bright hot dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34220653) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:53 AM Author: lemon odious stage mexican judges like this are why you settle litigation. i have appeared before this one federal judge where you can literally show them their own published cases saying "Point of Law X" on the exact same facts, sometimes with the exact same parties, and they will say "I think I'm going to rule Point of Law Not X because it feels right."
charlatans. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:56 AM Author: bright hot dilemma but didnt he masquerade his feeling of "right" with a plethora of legal citations ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217001) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 1:32 PM Author: lemon odious stage mexican Posner did. The judge(s) I'm talking about rule from the bench and never issue anything in writing other than the transcript so that they can't be reversed on appeal or ever called out (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218203) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:23 AM Author: bistre razzmatazz menage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217241) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:31 AM Author: twinkling bisexual house Truff, bro. Judges like this are also why the Russian way of just firing a few AK clips into the judges car with him in it is by far the credited response. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217278) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:37 AM Author: Cheese-eating Resort Gaming Laptop Some day you will get arrested for what you write. It will make me happy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217315) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:40 AM Author: umber rehab mad cow disease (mentally ill fascist shitlib) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217333) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:42 AM Author: twinkling bisexual house Before or after Red Dawn? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217336) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:16 PM Author: histrionic milky ladyboy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226787) |
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Date: October 16th, 2017 8:04 PM Author: Sticky base Had a judge say he was going to limit our depositions to 16 because his birthday was on the 16th. Seems fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34458568) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 10:57 AM Author: dashing heaven fanboi DESCRIBE the amount of projection in these statements:
----- “I pay very little attention to legal rules, statutes, constitutional provisions,” Judge Posner said. “A case is just a dispute. The first thing you do is ask yourself — forget about the law — what is a sensible resolution of this dispute?”
The next thing, he said, was to see if a recent Supreme Court precedent or some other legal obstacle stood in the way of ruling in favor of that sensible resolution. “And the answer is that’s actually rarely the case,” he said. “When you have a Supreme Court case or something similar, they’re often extremely easy to get around.”
I asked him about his critics, and he said they fell into two camps.
***
He said he had less sympathy for the second camp. “There are others who are just, you know, reactionary beasts,” he said. “They’re reactionary beasts because they want to manipulate the statutes and the Constitution in their own way. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:02 AM Author: geriatric heady orchestra pit knife this is why judges need to be intimidated (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217057) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:04 AM Author: Hairraiser corner should be impeached. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217065) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:22 AM Author: pink beady-eyed jap giraffe He retired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217221) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:40 PM Author: marvelous church building he retired (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218701) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:24 PM Author: balding iridescent degenerate *imprisoned (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34220667) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:22 AM Author: bistre razzmatazz menage this is exactly why us law is a national embarrassment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217231) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:24 AM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested He has been running this schtick for literally decades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217248) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:27 AM Author: Boyish Yarmulke lol @ "the law" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217260) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:32 AM Author: beta startled property That's always bee his schtick (except that "fairness" to him means "economic rationality"), and the main reason he sucks. This shouldn't be a surprise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217288) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:35 AM Author: bright hot dilemma this doesnt suck--he is talking reality--judges dont really decide cases based on what 18 USC 2340 says, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217302) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:36 AM Author: beta startled property Yes it does, because it fucks up the law for all the other litigants that actually try to fucking follow the law (or at least act according to the law). You look at the law, and it's pretty clear on one point or another, but there's this shit Posner case out there that fucks everything up and injects uncertainty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217307) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:38 AM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested I agree with all this. In fairness, though, Posner's vaunted pragmatism doesn't appear to have influenced how he actually decided cases all that much, as an empirical matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217317) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:53 PM Author: Charismatic cocky hall link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218779) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 3:48 PM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested Daniel A. Farber, Do Theories of Statutory Interpretation Matter--A Case Study, 94 Nw. U. L. Rev. 1409 (1999), Available at: http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/facpubs/1724 |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:42 AM Author: bright hot dilemma But aren't you assuming that there is actually a formalist conception of law? Isn't law at the end of the day a matter of interpretation?
like whether a doctor violated the standard of care in a malpractice suit--isn't that all interpretation? |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:43 AM Author: beta startled property That doesn't mean any old interpretation is just as valid as any other interpretation. Jesus are you still a law student after 10 years? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217350) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:49 AM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested Careful he is leading you down a subthread wasteland. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217381) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:53 PM Author: Charismatic cocky hall (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218782) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:35 AM Author: aquamarine deranged jew kitty It would be funny to see Posner's reaction from the other side of the bench when some judge told him "I'm not concerned about what the law says, I'm looking for the reasonable solution here. Also I will bring in my own evidence from outside the record to support my conclusion." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217303) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:36 AM Author: Cheese-eating Resort Gaming Laptop Old England had courts of equity. If you could not get justice in the court of law, you went to the court of equity. This isn't all that earth shattering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217308) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:38 AM Author: twinkling bisexual house And in Russia you just blow up the dude giving you a problem. Makes for a mich more civil society when you just kill dudes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217324) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:48 AM Author: Concupiscible area (pudgy dork with a compliance job) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217377) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:21 AM Author: Gay national philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34222985) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 5:42 PM Author: bright hot dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231097) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:39 AM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested That's not at all how the equity - law divide worked. Wtf. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217325) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:36 PM Author: cracking box office messiness So let equity swallow it all?
Maybe.
But even the exercise of equity is (or at least should be) subject to principles of law. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 11:49 AM Author: Stirring filthpig chad Just like every other judge in Amerikwa (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34217382) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 1:18 PM Author: bright hot dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218046) |
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Date: September 20th, 2017 10:59 AM Author: bright hot dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34250150) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:34 PM Author: vigorous institution This "forget about the law" thinking is how you end up with rulings like the Title VII case where the Seventh Circuit said a law that explicitly bans gender and racial discrimination also implicitly bans discrimination based on sexual orientation, even though the law doesn't say anything about that.
Why even have a legislature if the judges are just going to do whatever they want, laws and Constitution be damned? If Posner's retirement means we get a new judge who will predictably and faithfully follow the law, then good riddance. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:50 PM Author: beta startled property To be fair, sexual orientation discrimination is gender-based discrimination in 90% of cases. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34218764) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:37 PM Author: Maize round eye brunch The "law" States that if your 6 year old son demands to be a girl you will have the state take him and feed him estrogen if you refuse.
Ljl at our "laws", what a joke.
I love reactionary dandies like this judge. |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 2:54 PM Author: bateful cerise coffee pot office OMG THAT'S SO ZEN AND ICONOCLASTIC. SO 'PRAGMATIC'! HEHEHEHE |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 3:49 PM Author: umber rehab mad cow disease moar like pozner amirite (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34219138) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:28 PM Author: bateful cerise coffee pot office 'THE LAW' IS FOR THE LITTLE PEOPLE, THE PLEBES. I AM ABOVE THE LAW. I AM PURE. I ABIDE BY A HIGHER TRANSENDENT STANDARD OF COMSIC JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS. OOOOH LOOK AT MY ROBES! I'M LIKE A WIZARD! |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 7:32 PM Author: lascivious saffron abode becky imagine having a 7th cir argument in front of Posner or Easterbrook.
you'd tell your client, "look, they are going to ignore all the facts and law we've been arguing about for years. they're just going to do whatever they want. and there's a good chance they will trash me, trash opposing counsel, or both of us, just for fun." |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 8:06 PM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested (Albert Alschuler) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34220841) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:32 AM Author: bat shit crazy pozpig circlehead Not earth shattering legal advice. Counseled clients into settlements for similar reasons in 9th circuit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34223018) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 6:15 PM Author: citrine supple death wish garrison God, the terror of having to make a practical argument. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231248) |
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Date: September 15th, 2017 9:42 PM Author: cracking box office messiness Dear Posner,
Did anyone ever tell you that you think far too much of your legal writing abilities? |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 8:53 PM Author: bright hot dilemma elaborate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226371) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 9:56 PM Author: cracking box office messiness The best legal writing has a strong, logical, well structured heart.
In addition to playing fast and loose with the facts, Posner sacrifices much of that in service to his goal of telling simple stories for the masses.
That's not a call for jargon or any such nonsense. Posner simply isn't as good a writer as some other notable judges, but Posner doesn't seem to understand that. |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 9:59 PM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested (Selya) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226694) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:04 PM Author: cracking box office messiness A nut from a different tree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226723) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:09 PM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested I'm partial to Friendly's method of writing opinions, but it is an acquired taste.
I'd rank Easterbrook over Posner on the Seventh Circuit. This includes both opinions and scholarship.
Some DC Cir. judges are good, but boring.
To name some ladies of the bar, I've been favorably impressed by King (5th Cir.) and Kearse (2d Cir.).
Did you ever try to read Posner's N.D. Il. damages opinions (he sought to sit by designation a few times)? |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 7:23 PM Author: olive gas station Kill yourself. Selya is awesome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231577) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 7:35 PM Author: Diverse library idea he suggested ? I like Selya. Was just trying to think of who might level this type of charge at Posner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231633) |
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Date: September 17th, 2017 7:47 PM Author: olive gas station *heaves sigh of relief* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34231675) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:54 PM Author: trip theatre corn cake This is why he got magna-pwned. Prescient HLS faculty wanted to put him in his place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226953) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 9:26 PM Author: swashbuckling halford Kennedy, J., concurring (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226532) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:46 PM Author: arousing violent nowag Good to have a smart guy inside the judiciary who's willing to speak up when something doesn't make sense. You guys want judges like Scalia who talk about the letter of the law disingenuously and reach whatever result they want? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34226906) |
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Date: September 16th, 2017 10:56 PM Author: bateful cerise coffee pot office can't stop lolling at 'the law' what a joke |
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Date: September 20th, 2017 11:00 AM Author: racy crackhouse hominid think there was something about this on last Saturday's LSAT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34250158) |
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Date: September 28th, 2017 3:23 PM Author: bright hot dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3732746&forum_id=2#34318718) |