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China to destroy diamond cartel
Poast new message in this thread
Date: March 13th, 2018 2:38 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner The spread of synthetic diamonds in China, originally designed for industrial purposes such as oil drilling, is posing such a threat to the global diamond market that it has forced dominant player De Beers to invest tens of millions of dollars on methods to identify the man-made stones that look exactly like the real thing.
http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2076225/de-beers-fights-fakes-technology-chinas-lab-grown-diamonds |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 11:48 PM Author: Marvelous Bbw Spot good de beers is dirty af. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600704) |
Date: March 13th, 2018 2:38 PM Author: yellow stimulating juggernaut dilemma Lab-made diamonds are so prole
I want my diamonds excavated from the earth by underpaid slaves, cut by a diamond artiste, that's prestige |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:39 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner But identical (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596138) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:39 PM Author: yellow stimulating juggernaut dilemma It's not the end result, it's how you get there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596144) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner *scratches head* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596153) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:45 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal diamonds are DUN HERE
pretty soon they will become like cubic zirconias and engagement rings will once again be made from rubies or whatever (until that gets DUN HERE) too
the fake rubies I have seen look awful (they still need to work on those), but fake diamonds generally look the same |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:38 PM Author: concupiscible coral casino Of course women-- as directed by GC -- will want men to pay for a real ruby that costs more than a Chinese "diamond" even though said chink diamond is EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING THAT THEY DEMANDED BEFORE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597133) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:05 PM Author: sepia garrison not identical if they can be found out (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596380) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:06 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner It's possible that the blood diamond crowd may get a law passed banning the labeling of a diamond as real (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596389) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:08 PM Author: sepia garrison there already are laws. iirc, there are FTC regulations and it's required to put 'laboratory' something or another on a listing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596410) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:11 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner That law could be rescinded and designations of real or lab would be prohibited. Activists want to figure out a way to stop the flow of blood diamonds and this is the simplest most straightforward way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596429) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:12 PM Author: sepia garrison shrews want MY dead niggers. MY blood diamond. nobody cares about activists (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596443) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner Very harsh and inappropriate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596445) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:46 PM Author: Impertinent feces base You're an anti-semite running kike flame, correct? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596209) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:37 PM Author: fragrant forum gaping Is it even possible to underpay a slave? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596639) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:44 PM Author: shimmering twisted stage codepig ljl Jews maf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597184) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:39 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal 180 diamonds are such GC scam
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:29 PM Author: grizzly learning disabled international law enforcement agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596582) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:46 PM Author: Histrionic copper meetinghouse lol 180, fuck diamonds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596213) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 2:47 PM Author: Idiotic nofapping parlour the chinks are making an end-run around the kikes here, 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596222) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:03 PM Author: Vibrant lodge idiot 180 lol at needing a giant machine to authenticate your "real" diamond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596363) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:05 PM Author: Impertinent feces base (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596384) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:23 PM Author: Disrespectful turdskin box office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596526) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:06 PM Author: sepia garrison there have been forgeries and knock-offs since the beginning of time. news at 11 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596391) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:07 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner why are you the only one defending the diamond cartel? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596394) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:09 PM Author: sepia garrison i'm not defending it. i bought pddj a colored stone bc diamonds are a scam for the goyim. my point is that lab stones are only equivalent if they cant be detected, and they can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596418) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:12 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner Is it because you want the guys with black hats (what do you call them) in Antwerp to still have a living trading rough diamonds? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596439) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:14 PM Author: sepia garrison it's not what i want. i'm saying lab created stones are going to be easily detectable for the foreseeable future, so this thread is much ado about nothing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596451) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:15 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner It doesn't seem like it can easily be detected, requiring huge machinery. And, there's such a large activist crowd against the diamond trade in Africa, it's hard not to see them seize this opportunity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596467) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:23 PM Author: sepia garrison you already need expensive equipment to appraise/grade a gemstone. that's what GIA et al do. what's new? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596523) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:24 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner Does that equipment to appraise/grade cost $50,000? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596538) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:27 PM Author: sepia garrison i'm sure GIA has equipment that costs far more than $50k. they charge several hundred for a grading report. do you really think they cant afford a 50k machine? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596558) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:28 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner Not a clear answer
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:29 PM Author: sepia garrison i'm not going to make up that i know the price of every machinery that GIA has in its lab, but you'd be an idiot to think they cant buy a 50k machine to stay on the cutting edge of what they do. they're the industry leader in diamond grading. this is what they do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596581) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: vermilion mad-dog skullcap stag film This is absurd. If it's identical to the naked eye and requires a specialized machine to tell the difference, then for nearly all purposes the lab diamond is an identical product that costs a lot less. Conventional diamonds will be for various types of fool-- people who like something just because it costs more, people stupidly using it as a store of value, people trying to compete on price with others people they know, etc. For everybody else, there's literally no reason to prefer one over a lab diamond. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596601) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:46 PM Author: shimmering twisted stage codepig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597194) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:49 PM Author: sepia garrison my point is that lab vs natural diamonds are no different than any other kid of high-quality forgery/copy. people still buy $300 burberry scarves when you can get the same shit on canal street for $15 and nobody knows the difference. some people will always irrationally buy a $300 burberry scarf even if it defies logic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597214) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:50 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal goys like buying "luxury" items b/c they honestly believe it is higher quality, even though it is literally made of the same material. plus some goys think their purses and scarves are "investments" JUST LJL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597226) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:54 PM Author: sepia garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597247) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:56 PM Author: shimmering twisted stage codepig plenty of jews eat up scam luxury items especially JAPs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597263) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 11:47 PM Author: walnut razzle hell *crickets* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600694) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:28 PM Author: excitant glassy immigrant Unless you can see it with your eye, it doesn’t matter. Lol at the idea of women comparing gia certificates. They’ll all just lie and say their ring isn’t from a lab.
And I spent 30k on a ring. Fma. |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:30 PM Author: Arousing ebony home water buffalo My shit real (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596587) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:31 PM Author: sepia garrison women cant even spot a shitty $10 CZ fake, let alone a high quality lab stone. what's your point? women are stupid and irrational. that wont stop them from demanding MY blood diamond. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596592) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:31 PM Author: excitant glassy immigrant It’s not if they can tell. It’s if any one of their friends can tell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596599) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:33 PM Author: sepia garrison their friends cant spot a $10 CZ fake either.
it took a while for pddj's ring to get made so she wanted to wear something. we got a $100 ring at macys (and returned it later) bc she wanted to wear something. everyone said it was so beautiful and made the same comments about the $100 ring that they made about her actual ring.
tl;dr = women are stupid |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:35 PM Author: excitant glassy immigrant Some people can tell. I can tell.
Seems like maybe her custom ring isn’t all you think it is. |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:15 PM Author: sepia garrison or, women are stupid and say flattering bullshit on matter what (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596935) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:47 PM Author: shimmering twisted stage codepig no plenty of women can tell idiot how the fuck would you even know? you have no friends |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:49 PM Author: sepia garrison yes, women are geniuses. ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597216) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:55 PM Author: shimmering twisted stage codepig you don't need to be a genius you dumbfuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597252) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:33 PM Author: vermilion mad-dog skullcap stag film CR. By the time your lady is taking the ring to a lab to test whether it's "real," you're headed to divorce town anyway ljl. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596612) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:34 PM Author: sepia garrison cr, ljl made me think of this thread: www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3913380&mc=39&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596621) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:41 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597160) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:29 PM Author: green dog poop travel guidebook i'm about to spend 30k on a ring too. fuck, should i get one of these cheapies? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597067) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:38 PM Author: sepia garrison your future wife wont know the difference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597132) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:10 PM Author: Titillating Greedy School Cafeteria lol 180 what a SHITINUDSTRY (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596423) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: Pontificating macaca oy vey (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596604) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:58 PM Author: Spruce Associate House more like GOY VEY (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597285) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: Adulterous sweet tailpipe set shrews DEMAND 'natural' diamonds, but want test tube babies at age 40 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596605) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:34 PM Author: Pontificating macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596617) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 3:35 PM Author: sepia garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596627) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:29 PM Author: Big voyeur quadroon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597064) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:43 PM Author: topaz milk idea he suggested (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597175) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:49 PM Author: walnut razzle hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597213) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 5:00 PM Author: Talking Den (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597291) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 5:03 PM Author: flatulent cerebral range multi-billionaire (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597313) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 10:49 PM Author: mentally impaired violet patrolman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600245) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 10:53 PM Author: opaque thriller center telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600275) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 11:15 PM Author: Trip people who are hurt There was a 180 gender war thread around 2008-2009 that started out as an engagement ring price thread. The focus switched to synthetic diamonds and nearly every female poster said they wouldn't want a synthetic. After miles of subthread wastelands, they couldn't produce a single choate explanation as to why. I think medea or 1XX lbs. of fat chick eventually reduced it to 'natural diamonds are special because they come from the earth.'
It was a world class display of terminal bird brains. |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 11:18 PM Author: maize location personal credit line (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600441) |
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Date: March 14th, 2018 5:43 AM Author: Carnelian Stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35601784) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:18 PM Author: lime genital piercing station 18000 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596964) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:19 PM Author: kink-friendly drab messiness Thankfully i have a FRIEND IN THE MOTHERFUCKING DIAMOND BUSINESS who will personally ensure that EACH diamond I purchase is appropriately soaked in African blood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35596974) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:23 PM Author: sepia garrison or you can pay GIA $150 for a certificate saying the same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597006) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:25 PM Author: kink-friendly drab messiness (guy who thinks TOM MOTHERFUCKING SHANE would be satisfied with a measly $150 certificate, when he bushwhacks through pristine, virgin lands to bring you the BEST DIAMONDS on EARTH) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597032) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:29 PM Author: sepia garrison virgin lands -- until your wife went there on spring break (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597068) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:38 PM Author: Floppy bat-shit-crazy fat ankles dysfunction Isn't he into diapers and asphyxiation with Thai hookers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597137) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:52 PM Author: charismatic peach theater i think our friend in the diamond business has passed on to the great diamond mine in the sky. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597236) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:35 PM Author: Floppy bat-shit-crazy fat ankles dysfunction lol @ all you GIA proles. AGS is the HYS of diamond grading and stones of real quality go there for accurate assessment.
AGS = real = best stones
GIA = scores everything 1 notch more generous than AGS = better than average stones that wouldn't get anywhere close to AGS 000 rating.
EGL & IGI = TTT, 2-3x more generous than AGS across, total fakery for people that want to buy a "certified" diamond from lower end chain stores. The only thing it gives you is that it's a real diamond, but you can't trust it at all for the specific qualities. |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:39 PM Author: sepia garrison scholarship. i know colored stones, not diamonds.
AGL = the best for colored stones. |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:42 PM Author: Floppy bat-shit-crazy fat ankles dysfunction I got super into PRICESCOPE when I bought my wife's e-ring ~9 years ago, so got a pretty solid education on round diamond evaluation and ideal ratios. I don't know much about colored stones, but the board jews did help me on my recent ruby GC-approved "right hand" ring I bought her for Christmas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597161) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:50 PM Author: sepia garrison what sort of design was it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597221) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:53 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal what is it with people and right hand rings?
i got a right hand ring for Xmas - is that some kind of tradition |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:55 PM Author: Floppy bat-shit-crazy fat ankles dysfunction GC invention I'm sure to get women asking for another piece of (((jewelry))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597258) |
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Date: March 14th, 2018 11:47 AM Author: sepia garrison wtf do these even look like? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35603043) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 5:09 PM Author: Titillating Greedy School Cafeteria (guy who pays srs attention to diamond rankings (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597362) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:52 PM Author: Adventurous rough-skinned kitty cat school https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597238) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:54 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal way tl;dr
what's the summary? it's worthless? |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:56 PM Author: Adventurous rough-skinned kitty cat school longread about how diamonds are only considered valuable due to cartel practices and successful marketing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597261) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:57 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal yes, engagement rings weren't even made with diamonds until sometime in the 20th century i believe
they used to have colored stones like rubies (my mom got a ruby engagement ring back in the day) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:59 PM Author: Adventurous rough-skinned kitty cat school Got my wife a sapphire one from some shop in midtown diamond district and had jeweler friend cast a platinum ring and arrange for setting. Total cost around $1k, with savings going to a nice house. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597286) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 5:02 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal sup, prince william (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597310) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:59 PM Author: sepia garrison cr. this is why i got pddj a colored stone e-ring. diamond = prole tell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597288) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 5:02 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal colored stones are much prettier than diamonds IMO
i got a hand me down heirloom diamond ring from the 1930s that was in the family - i think it's only worth about 5K though and was given to us for free |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 5:08 PM Author: sepia garrison bu bu but A DIAMOND IS FOREVER, the kikes whispered in your ear (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597357) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 10:49 PM Author: curious sneaky criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600248) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:58 PM Author: sepia garrison we know what tho (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597281) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:55 PM Author: sepia garrison tl;dr. cliffs beyond jews gonna jew? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597256) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 4:58 PM Author: Adventurous rough-skinned kitty cat school that about sums it up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35597280) |
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Date: March 13th, 2018 11:17 PM Author: opaque thriller center telephone xo China (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35600433) |
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Date: March 14th, 2018 1:43 AM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner Still don't know what you call the guys with black hats (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#35601353) |
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Date: June 25th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#36307035) |
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Date: November 14th, 2018 1:17 PM Author: Beady-eyed digit ratio corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917460&forum_id=2#37231229) |