Magical thinking is Jordan Peterson's fatal flaw
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: April 13th, 2018 7:55 AM Author: Chestnut laser beams
(1) His opinion on whether Jesus was physically literally resurrected is that he doesn't know what is possible when someone perfectly embodies the apex competence hierarchy narrative. (2) His opinion on miracles is that the laws of physics break down as time since the big bang goes to zero, so who knows.
Magical thinking is when someone believes the way they think influences otherwise casually understandable events. It seems pretty straightforward that (1) is an instance of magical thinking, and (2) is some sort of quasiscientific justification.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35831302) |
Date: April 13th, 2018 8:06 AM Author: talented insanely creepy skinny woman newt
This is very cr and my main gripe with him, he straight up won’t answer whether he believes in superhero cartoon like aspects of the Jesus story and also never even glances at the astrotheolgical meanings behind the resurrection or crucifixtion (winter solstice rising and pausing for 3 days before reaching apex)
I think it’s disingenuous to continue the pop metaphysical quaint version of these stories being good lessons and dig much deeper into the not necessarily occult but at the least an honest discussion about astrotheolgical guidepoints (which they are inarguably).
I respect him for realizing things are super fucked in society especially amongst males and he needs to package it so people can buy what he’s selling.
I’m just frustrated that there’s not mainstream discussion on these things beyond a surface level, maybe it’s just my spectrum speaking heh
But yes as a “scientist” which he claims to be and is from a publishing standpoint I believe you are on to something with the fallacy brewing here maybe not necessarily magical thinking but it’s a start for sure
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35831327) |
Date: April 13th, 2018 11:39 AM Author: Floppy rough-skinned business firm
JP's whole shtick is that objective material reality is not mutually exclusive with human spiritual ("magical" if you want) reality and understanding, which clearly provide us with practical utility, just like how understanding objective material reality provides us with practical utility
how can you not get this?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832572)
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Date: April 13th, 2018 11:57 AM Author: Floppy rough-skinned business firm
for people like us, yes, this contradiction makes no sense and is not useful in any way. but if the other 95% of the population benefits more from believing in spirituality that is contradicted by physical facts, are we really going to try to tell them otherwise?
(imo) it seems pretty clear that an explicitly athiest (defined by lack of spirituality) society has proved to be an utter failure, and that normal people NEED this spirituality to function properly in the same way that people NEED to understand the science behind the weather so that we can grow crops to eat
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832696)
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Date: April 13th, 2018 12:10 PM Author: Floppy rough-skinned business firm
that's all jordan peterson is - a guru for telling young men to take responsibility for themselves, get their lives in order, and have families
the actual details of his shtick are totally irrelevant. he could be making up random shit as he goes along (it sure seems like it) and it wouldn't matter, as long as he could successfully convince people of the above message
if telling people that jesus is a magical lobster accomplishes the above goal, great. who cares? normal people are really dumb and they need something to believe in or else they get confused, lost and self-destructive - see modern society. this is not rocket science
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832800) |
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Date: April 13th, 2018 12:13 PM Author: Charcoal filthpig mediation
yeah i don't disagree, it just relates to whether i have any personal affection for what the man thinks. i am remiss in reading up on this particular NEW HOTNESS in the alt-right. what little i've seen of him strikes me as good enough.
i'm totally fine with the telling of noble lies. if jesus = lobster gets people to church (at least "low church," as it were) and paying their taxes and off of tinder, whatever, great. go nuts. theology is a high grade problem.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832828)
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Date: April 13th, 2018 12:05 PM Author: Chestnut laser beams Subject: APOTHEOSIZED LOBSTER
DID HIS BODY RESURRECT: https://youtu.be/VPIh1xQiuI8?t=238
I DONT KNOW. I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO A PERSON IF THEY BRING THEMSELVES COMPLETELY INTO ALIGNMENT. WE DONT UNDERSTAND THE WORLD VERY WELL. WE DONT KNOW HOW THE WORLD COULD BE MASTERED IF IT COULD BE MASTERED COMPLETELY.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832755) |
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Date: April 13th, 2018 12:11 PM Author: Charcoal filthpig mediation
yeah, i mean, this is ... a strange look. i'm willing to grant him that he's speaking off the cuff and it isn't clear quite what he means, perhaps even to himself. this is certainly a mote of evidence in favor of your characterization of him though.
Christ's literal and miraculous resurrection relates to whether He is the son of God, not just a really, really, really, really, really, really good person.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832809) |
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Date: April 13th, 2018 1:02 PM Author: Charcoal filthpig mediation
For me, suggesting that Christ is just like, super engaged with the Logos or works really hard at being good or something but that he was otherwise ordinary is kind of Mormon or Gnostic or something. You know, we're all kind of God, man, and all we have to do is act right, whatever that is (forming secret societies, taking multiple wives and learning secret handshakes, whatever).
But, for me, the story of Christ is not like that at all. The story of Christ is about God making the gracious choice to excuse us our literally irredeemable selves--but for His intervention, we have literally no hope of maeking it. So the notion that one can achieve Godhood, with all its attendant characteristics (for instance, perfection), is at direct loggerheads with our nature.
Now, you can of course say, yes, but this is all bullshit. Okay, sure, perhaps so. But it's hard to read the story of Christ, and the Bible and its supporting scholarship, as a story about an ordinary man who became extraordinary. So if Peterson were playing by the typical rules of Biblical exegesis, there would be no way he could conclude that Christ is, yanno, Rudy.
In a way, that story would be the more miraculous one. At least Christ is, according to convention, a truly literal deus ex machina. Peterson would be, by my reckoning, more "magical" in his thinking by believing that, yes, becoming actual Christ such that the bodily resurrection is possible can be done if you will but will it.
Of course the waters get muddied here, because we are called to be like Christ. But being like Christ, in our limited capacities, is not the same as being Christ. And we are, in practically every doctrine and at some point in practically every liturgy, reminded of that again and again.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35833193) |
Date: April 13th, 2018 12:07 PM Author: mustard galvanic state
how is magical thinking not real
i impose my will to power and my understanding of the nature of the board on the board
over time my understanding of the nature of the board becomes the actual nature of the board
my thinking has become reality itself
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35832784) |
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Date: April 13th, 2018 3:21 PM Author: talented insanely creepy skinny woman newt
Terrence McKenna had a really good answer to this in a lecture of his about reality being a solid state matrix
A guy in audience basically called him out about reality only existing within our respective purviews say Amazon tribe and Wall Street, the former having no conception of latter but the choices of the latter could exhibit an effect on the reality of the former to the point of eliminating their reality
Essentially, McKenna’s take was that psychedelic or even spiritual experience showcases that Occam’s razor has a event horizon when it comes to actually reality that we make potential energetic choices within and anyone or anything that tries to simplify the domain of reality to a simple concept or framework fails to point out how impossible it is to account for all the permutations that go into existence like internal motivations etc
It’s a tremendous lecture of his from a biological point of view
https://youtu.be/bmcAesBjauY
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35834236) |
Date: April 13th, 2018 1:29 PM Author: deranged space
haven't looked at much of his stuff but that clip about christ being “in alignment” is a good example of what seems wrong with his oeuvre.
trying to get people to take “spirituality” seriously as an existential matter is well and good (and important at some level, depending on how it’s done) but he desperately clings to this notion that he’s a “scientist” to convince himself and others that he’s not just spouting french-style literary theory-as-philosophy, when that’s more or less what he’s doing in many cases. that's not necessarily a bad thing so long as you’re not just trying to be a malignant marxist for its own sake (as most are) and so long as you surrender any claim to speaking “scientifically”/on any level but the symbolic or existential. but he desperately wants to preserve his identity as a “scientific” academic because most people who go this intellectual route don’t have that. so he backs himself into talking about spiritual/existential objects in terms of this hard-and-fast science and psychology that’s he’s created and suddenly his whole discussion loses some of its force because it sounds like he’s doing extremely stretched science rather than existentialism for its own sake. makes him sound like terence mckenna in his worst moments (like the christ one).
you can be nietzsche in your philosophical writing and a “scientist” in your academic psychological work but it’s hard to do nietzsche *as* a scientist, and it makes the nietzchian bit seem ridiculous at points.
i really haven’t seen much of his shit at all though so could be wrong.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35833378) |
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Date: April 13th, 2018 3:37 PM Author: talented insanely creepy skinny woman newt
Love jp and termck but this is pretty accurate
He needs to stick to simple life advice schtick and veer away from metaphysical realm
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35834410) |
Date: April 13th, 2018 3:12 PM Author: Bateful theater
this thread blows out JPs hold.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3948058&forum_id=2#35834150)
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