Remember: hours worked is not equal to a normal job, so you need to adjust the pay for that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845829)

and parents don't respect teachers -- rather, they want to use them as scapegoats for their own failures as parents. so they aren't going to support increased taxes for teacher pay.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843161)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843211)

anyways if you ever see tons of women in a job it means it's relatively manageable hours because it generally means it's pretty fucking compatible with motherhood.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843223)

this is closer to reality in highly populated areas:

https://teachereducation.steinhardt.nyu.edu/high-teacher-turnover/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843194)

it's also retarded that we don't have public pre-K.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843183)

"get off at 2:30 or 3" the day starts at 7:00am, at the latest 7:30am, and ends at 3:30pm. school may get out a half hour earlier, but they still have to grade papers, submit test scores, submit reports to administration, etc. also, they often have parent meetings or staff meetings, then the day ends at 5:00pm. 30 minute lunch break, but in most school districts they're expected to supervise the kids during "lunch".

teachers usually work 9-10 workdays. they get 2 1/2 months off at summer to compensate. it's not biglaw, but it's not less than a normal job either.

also, it's a job where you're constantly "on". you can flip over to ESPN or zone out for a while when you're responsible for a room full of 13 year olds.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843222)

i assume it's from those who were raised in a very white, sheltered, probably well-off environment

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843285)

Where i went to high school, suburban white flyover, salaries started at 50k and went to low 100k, plus 60k pension after 25 years.

Teaching in suburban white flyover is CR

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845176)

i saw something on facebook that showed that teachers actually work the equivalent of 50 hours per week, 50 weeks of the year

so quit bitching about teachers. they are one of our most important resources and should be compensated accordingly

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843541)

where i taught it was 7 hours bell to bell for the students. obviously the teachers have to arrive at least 20 minutes earlier in most schools, as the buses come earlier and the kids have free breakfast, etc.

teachers probably do more actual work in a workday than the majority of white collar professions, and have to stay well after the kids leave doing bullshit paperwork for the administrators, not to mention the paper grading and test-making and parent calls and planning lessons. granted the test-making and lesson planning get easier over time, until the curriculum changes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843251)

no, you have to write detailed "intensive education plans" for each student. then provide constant, detailed updates in each of a shit ton of different categories. for each student.

then there are always curriculum and standards related paperwork you have to fill out from the idiots at the school district, who keep coming up with new bright ideas.

and, of course, the principal will always have bright ideas about improving test scores, so you're going to have after school meetings where he has you read a bunch of bullshit liberal pseudoscience, and then prepare plans for how you're going to implement them in your grading process.

you have to fill out specific forms in a computer system every time a child has a disciplinary infraction. which is several kids every class every day.

and then you have to make sure your lesson plans follow a specific bullshit format, and keep them in a certain manner, and the principal will duck in and check up on them to ensure they are up to date.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843309)

Funny, though that you would act like 45 minutes devoted to paperwork doesn’t count as “work,” yet an entire day of paperwork for other white collar professionals is much harder work than non-teachers face.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843692)

I wasn’t certified as a special ed teacher. I had no special ed classes. Yet I had IEPs for 95% of my students.

Oh, & I had at least 32 students in each class.

You are detached from the reality of a majority of public schools.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843671)

"then there are always curriculum and standards related paperwork you have to fill out from the idiots at the school district, who keep coming up with new bright ideas."

Yes and they have armies of admins who never, ever end up having to do this shitwork themselves.

"If you could also do a statistical regression analysis in your attached Excel file that would be great."

Email sig: Londretta Tompkins-Walters, Director of Standards and Development, EdD, MSW, LCSW, MA - "Achieving the dream for disadvantaged youth in the community!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843375)

YOU DONT PUT IN THE HOURS I DO!! MUH SPREADSHEET

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843345)

Where does the money go? Salaries for “administrators,” pensions and benefits, social justice programs, benefits for illegals, and debt financing for buildings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35843738)

Firefighters: $49,080 per year

Police and Detectives: $62,960 per year

Bus Drivers: $33,010 per year

Kindergarten and Elementary School Teachers: $56,900 per year

High School Teachers: $59,170 per year

Considering these numbers, I don't agree with the prior assumption that they get paid significantly less than any other public position. On average they are pretty well compensated and have pretty good benefits. So good in fact that large portions of state budgets are used to finance their healthcare and pension.

---

Why they don't get paid even more? I'm no expert but I can think of a couple potential reasons off the top of my head:

1) The structure of public education is generally against meritocracy and rewarding the "good" teachers. I assume this is a function of unions. Are there objective tests to determine relative competency and to reward it? Are they used?

2) The public doesn't trust the typical administration to spend wisely and is understandably reticent to fund additional waste. Consider the horror stories out of the KCMO fiasco while it was under a nominally competent direction of a federal judge.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/money-school-performance-lessons-kansas-city-desegregation-experiment

3) Women make up the majority of teachers. Women are also notoriously bad negotiators and horribly inefficient. The two posters above describing the long work day of the teacher are undoubtedly true, but also unnecessary to the core function of the job. That they have to deal with bullshit paper pushing and crazy lib education theory is a result of the structures set up by unions and self interested bureaucrats. Again those are understandably less than desirable to tax for.

4) The solution would be to completely start again but like higher education and the healthcare industry there are just too many interested parties who would be made worthless. Not just "fat cats" and "big wigs" but the millions of plebes doing bullshit jobs and getting paid decent for it also would like to keep their jobs, even if it means deluding themselves that they serve a purpose.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35844904)

Grading papers was tough but only bc it was hard to distinguish between the equivalent of As and A-s.

Not sure what teachers make but here in Chicago there is like a threat of a strike every few months. I think some schools are shutting dow bc of cost.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845115)

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Syosset-Central-School-District-Teacher-Salaries-E211519_D_KO32,39.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845136)

Having said that, if you add up all of the generous pension/benefits/time off which is cumulatively worth, eh, maybe $40k a year or more, and consider that teachers literally major in liberal arts which makes them 0% more employable than a high school grad for anything but government work, then.... what was the question again?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845139)

also, in good districts, teachers can tutor for additional $80-100/hr cash.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845171)

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845157)

They have lavish, preposterously generous pensions. And, they only have to work 30 years to get them, so they can start teaching at 22 and retire at 52 with full pension.

They work 9 months a year, 7 hours a day, and have more paid holidays than almost any private sector job.

Tons of people love kids and want to do the job, so supply is high.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845172)

Suburban flyover teachers make decent money, have an insane pension after 20 to 25 years and dont have to deal with gangs, etc.

I can barely think of a better job in suburban flyover.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35845203)

Cush public school teaching jobs where the vast majority of students are well-behaved, smart kids from stable two parent households?

Or hellish public school teaching jobs where the vast majority of students are buckwild dumbs from single parent households?

And lol at the failure to understand all of the uncompensated administrative bullshit teachers are required to do, now, as administrators try to find excuses for “minorities” terrible performance.

And, yes, our country keeps wasting ever increasing billions on public ed, that doesn’t go to the teachers, all in an effort to pretend the issue isn’t cultural.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35846169)

If you think my case was the exception rather than the norm in 2017-18 America, you’re living in a bubble.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3949637&forum_id=2#35848469)