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Europe Head offered me the promotion again.
Poast new message in this thread
Date: April 27th, 2018 6:13 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Some things have changed. Work isn't as hectic anymore since regs have been implemented or are near implementation.
Pay offer can be increased. initial bump was like 20k euros, now we're looking at a total increase of 35-40k euros. Looking at stats I'd be top 3% income bracket for that city. [Pretty sure I'm butting up against the pay band, so maybe ask for housing costs?]
Wife more willing now to go but would still be conditioned on her getting a gig. [I suggested maybe do 3 mos there, 3 mos here, and back and forth; her sis just had a kid and parents are here so she is unsure about leaving]
Title bump as well with Head EMEA Legal for XYZ.
Been working with EMEA for some time and EMEA business likes me.
Mom no longer has cancer. So leaving wouldn't be so bad. |
Date: April 27th, 2018 6:28 AM Author: Unholy site Do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35929892) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:31 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Definitely inclined to take it. Worst case I do a year or two and try to get a better gig in the US, which I hope isn't too hard. It'd be a pay and title bump and give me mgt exp over two teams in diff countries.
Are you pedrastrian? Cost of living is still kinda shit. How do normal Euros live there? Jfc. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:37 AM Author: Unholy site not pederastrian, different expat poster, you and I emailed about this a few months when you got offered this the first time yeah COL is an issue in some of Europe but is it still as high in [your possible location] than a few years ago? |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:41 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Oh, hey! Yea. Same location. I just looked up listings and still high. We'd be doing like a suburban lifestyle which I'm not sure is all that great. Who is renting these expensive ass apt? Russian oligarch's kids? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35929910) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:48 AM Author: Unholy site yeah housing in that location is a lower standard than in America: to get the same you have to pay a lot more (not true for all of Europe btw, in some countries housing is a much better standard than in America in my opinion) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:26 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy OUT the countries and locations where the housing standard is much better (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931592) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: Smoky useless brakes switzerland outside geneva IMO, housing is much better quality and way more beautiful environs
geneva is TTT |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:52 AM Author: Glittery sinister lodge Dont most companies factor that into your comp when sending you on foreign assignment? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930032) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:56 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Yea, supposedly. First offer wasn't that great. I rejected it. A few months have passed. We're looking at like a 20k USD increase from the previous offer, but CoL in Chicago is so much better than Euro location. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930045) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:07 AM Author: Glittery sinister lodge Can you go back and raise that issue? Maybe get a few more shekels? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930961) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza May try for housing costs. If they can help wife cop comparable job there, we'd likely be set. Promises of "we will make some phone calls on her behalf" are not really encouraging. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937307) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:33 AM Author: Maize exciting crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35929895) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:37 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza I could see that. It's not ususual in our culture. If we were in Poland it'd be usual for the dude to go work in UK or US for a few years, while wife stayed.
I am 99% sure she'll go, but she'll take a huge hit. She makes like 100k usd here, there it'd be like 40k euros. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:54 AM Author: Pea-brained dingle berry business firm I know tons of expat couples and it's really hard if wife is a shrew. If she can't find work or takes a huge hit she'll be resentful and discontent (never mind that she'd probably quit her job in 2 years anyway) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:03 AM Author: Unholy site “I moved for you and now I’m miserable, so yeah that’s why I’m drinking at lunch and had to fuck my tennis coach!” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35929955) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:37 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Not a shrew, but her parents sacrificed for her to get a degree. Parents had a nice life in Poland but started from scratch here in the US. So she feels compelled to continue her career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35929999) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:48 AM Author: Maize exciting crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930022) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:27 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Is it that surprising? From her POV she is giving up $60k from her career which may be permafucked so that he can make $35-40k more to live in a higher cost place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931600) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:27 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman who cares (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931615) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:29 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Uh, he and his wife should both care. Presumably, they have joint bank accounts so any move that ends up being a major net loss needs to have some compelling justification. Doesn't sound like this does. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931639) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:32 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman not everyone treats their family like a publicly traded corporation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931677) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:36 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford But presumably they make major financial decisions together, right? And one that ends up fucking their finances and one person's career for a small bump in the other person's career deserves significant scrutiny, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931743) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman if u make joint financial decisions with your wife you aren't a man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931759) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:39 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Uh, that's totally insane actually. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931772) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:09 PM Author: grizzly candlestick maker forum flame jumped shark here. Let’s double back on this past, see where it went wrong and make sure it doesn’t happen again in the future, thank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932061) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:22 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman embarrassing post (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932170) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 6:55 PM Author: Maize exciting crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35940166) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:29 PM Author: Idiotic Rose Station I have sympathy for women like this. they've grown up thinking they HAVE to have a prosperous career to be happy. they're just as much a victim as the men in situations like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931648) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:34 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford I don't understand why XOers are so negative on this. My mom made only slightly less than my dad for the entirety of their careers (spanning approximately 4 decades). Both had STEM grad degrees.
In general, it is easier to get two professionals to make ~$200k sustainably than to get one person making ~$400k. That is just how it is. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:37 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy because that type of arrangement isn't as complimentary as a marriage should be, and you're significantly underestimating the increased costs of that arrangement (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931745) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:40 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford I basically have this arrangement now. I make a bit more, she makes a bit less, but ultimately, that's how it works out. What's the problem with this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931778) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:41 PM Author: Idiotic Rose Station I think the general argument is wife with no job or 50k part time job contributes more than wife with 200k job, even if you make 200k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931789) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:42 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford God no. If my mom stayed home that would have been an epic disaster for everyone. Same with my wife (who readily acknowledges this). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931804) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:44 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy he's just not taking into account the cost cutting of having a woman at home (or even part time).
nor is he taking into account the increased costs of everything when the baseline is two working spouses, but that's a different topic. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:45 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford I've had both. You come out way ahead with 2 working spouses in good careers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931834) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:47 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy bro, you don't have kids. that's a pretty major cost driver. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931848) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:49 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Well, look, I have to give somewhere and I'll give on this. Personally, I'm fine without them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931877) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy And that's fine. I'm just saying a lot of the cost savings of a non-working spouse are realized once you have kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931895) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:53 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford It is cheaper to hire help and have 2 good careers than to scuttle 1 career for temporary child costs.
Also, not for nothing, but shit happens. If 1 person gets laid off in that scenario you can live on a measly $200k/year. If the $400k/year guy gets laid off and your HHI goes to $0 then you have a problem. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:27 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931612) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:55 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman I'm in London brother do u have any Qs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35929939) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:36 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Thanks, brother. What's the general perception of US attys in Europe? How difficult do you think it'd be to return to the US? A fear of mine is getting stranded there. I want to do this for a few yrs but return to the US.
I'm in the financial sector. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 8:27 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman this will probably not be a good move for your US career. you can probably get a similar move while staying in the states by switching companies. dont go unless you actually want to live in europe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930119) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 8:48 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza I'd like to live in Europe for a few years. It'll probably be the only time I can actually do it until wife and I retire.
How is movement within Europe? If you're a US atty working in London, are you essentially stuck in the London market or is there mobility to other Euro cities? (Not sure if it's similar to a NY atty trying to break into the CA or FL market.) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 8:56 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab In my experience, b/c of visa requirements, you'll have a hard time finding work outside of UK. I've made it through a few rounds in France (trying to return) but got dinged b/c of work visa requirements. If you stay in the UK for 5 years, you can get citizenship, then can work in the EU unless we get brexit-fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930232) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 10:08 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza This would be an EU member country. Would I still likely face the same restrictions/hurdles? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930575) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 10:09 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab I think so. Since you are not a citizen, then I believe you will only have W/A in that one country, not the entire EU. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930583) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 10:11 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab That said, make the jump and move to EU. It's a great place to live, seriously. There's some annoying shit, but far outweighed by all the other benefits. Which country? I lived in Paris last year and it was 180. Moved to London and it's 168. Kinda like the awkward cousin of the US. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930587) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:08 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman where do u live in London no doobs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930966) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:12 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab I live near Kentish Town, 10 min walk to Hampstead Heath. Work in Soho b/w Tottenham Court + Oxford. How's abouts yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930991) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:13 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman how do u like Kentish Town. im thinking of moving. im near barbican. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931420) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:55 PM Author: olive multi-colored rehab Dude, get outta the concrete jungle. Kentish town area is great. Good transport, a few really good bars. Pineapple pub has 180 thai food. It's an easy commute to the middle of the city, but far enough out that it's quiet. Big draw is being so close to the heath. Great hiking/running and views of the city. We have a puppydood so we needed to be by a big park. Really like it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931946) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:22 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman nah man I know. I used to live between Finchley road & hampstead. it's a great area. heath is insanely 180 and one of the GOAT city parks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932182) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 10:13 AM Author: Unholy site In that EU country you can also get citizenship in 5 years. But if you want to move to another EU country, you have to get a work visa for that new country — work visas in the EU are granted by the individual countries, not the EU as a whole, and they are only valid for that country — freedom of movement only applies to citizens, not to residents. However, if your wife has an EU country’s passport, then you’re free to move anywhere in the EU as her spouse and don’t need a working visa anywhere. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930604) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:09 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman just say where youre moving JFC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930968) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:25 PM Author: Khaki gaping parlor Brexit is happening and FOM will end. Citizenship laws are likely to tighten substantially in the UK. Don’t bank on it anymore.
I |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:11 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman near zero mobility from London to EU for US attorneys. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930983) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:13 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab This is accurate. Even with US companies with EU satellites. I was so close to getting a gig, but the immigration hurdles were too much for them to move forward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930995) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 8:54 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab Hey AssFaggot, wanna grab a drink? I work in Soho. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930223) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:14 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman idk man are u chill (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931428) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:00 PM Author: olive multi-colored rehab Very chill. From LA have a 180 puppydood, smoke my fare share of weed but won't judge if that's not your thing. Wife is a chef. Enjoy good beer and plotting my way out of the law, but in a good spot right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931996) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:15 PM Author: olive multi-colored rehab hit me up if you ever want to grab a drink (or a smoke if you're down) - xoentlaw@gmail.com (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932119) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 5:06 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman ok man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35936848) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:46 AM Author: swashbuckling newt chapel I'm in Paris let me know if you have any questions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930011) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 7:52 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza I guess same as the dude above:
What's the general perception of US attys in Europe? How difficult do you think it'd be to return to the US? I'd be dealing with EMEA laws and regs, may be able to do a 1 or 2 side projects for NAM.
A fear of mine is getting stranded there. I want to do this for a few yrs but return to the US. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 8:57 AM Author: olive multi-colored rehab How did I not know this when I was in Paris all year last year? I now work in London. Lemme know if you are down for a drink next time I'm in Paris...next month or so, likely. Should go to Candelaria and grab some tacos or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930239) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:47 PM Author: arousing mint casino crotch Any jobs for US shitigators in Paris? I lived and worked there before LS and speak French. (Used to be fluent, and probably could get back there, but don't want to be drafting memos in French.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931853) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:47 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman zero chance (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931858) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:51 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931894) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: arousing mint casino crotch Yeah, figured I would be better off just becoming an author or doing food tours haha. Fucking law is so shitty. I would have had a better chance as a fucking video game designer LOL. (See lots of ads for those kinds of jobs in France.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931909) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:23 PM Author: olive multi-colored rehab No. I tried for a year. Best chance would to be to get an in with a startup at Station F. But US atty's are not really welcome in France. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932189) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 8:30 AM Author: mustard cocky feces At my current bank lateral promotions outside of Associate to VP dont even come with a comp bump. You have to leave the bank and come back for more money which I find hilarious as fuck. A VP moving up to ED gets $0 more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930133) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:11 AM Author: Crawly idiot this would be completely retarded to do. you are getting jack shit as an expat and giving up quite a bit as a family and taking on career risk since you don't plan on immigrating there. other people coming in have housing allowances, international schools, US expatriate healthcare plans, allowances for back and forth family visitation flights. you are getting jack shit for a lot of risk on your wife's side and for your own career. this only makes sense if you'd entertain the idea of living there indefinitely. ljl at moving from chicago to EU for a mere 20K or anything even close to that. maybe it makes sense if they'd can you if you don't take it. your costs, especially as you're a family, will be markedly higher than costs for locals as you'll need more accessible versions of everything (e.g. services in English, imported household & food products). you may need tax filing help for US and local tax. are they including that at least. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35930986) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:28 AM Author: Glittery sinister lodge cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931059) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:38 AM Author: Maize exciting crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931126) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:05 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Total bump will be 35-40k Euros (they initially offered like a 20k euro bump, and I rejected; they've now increased it another possible 15-20k euros). They'll include tax services, we're in a major city so english isn't an issue, and they're offering some housing assistance (about 3 mos housing, but that's not much).
Talked to my current boss. I'll run my counter (last and final kinda thing) past him. He wants me to stay. He says, "Don't go just bc of the promotion. You're lined up for that here in the US. And, X and Y like you here." |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:17 PM Author: Idiotic Rose Station is ex-pat life actually that miserable in europe? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931476) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:19 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman its fine but women are mentally ill and will use it as an excuse to go insane (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931503) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:25 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford I mean, there are pros and cons. But you're supposed to be compensated to make it worth your while and come out ahead as a family. They're not doing that for you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931578) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:05 PM Author: Glittery sinister lodge You should not be financially worse off if sent on foreign assignment. So you should get COL adjustments, allowances for school for your kids, additional comp if it's an undesirable location, tax equalization etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35934432) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 9:24 AM Author: spectacular wrinkle philosopher-king No, especially if you’re single. This guy should try to negotiate a better pay bump though. Many companies pay for housing etc. London is expensive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937207) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:24 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931570) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:30 PM Author: high-end theater stage internal respiration Totally agree.
Nobody moves abroad absent significant pay bump and COL stipend/housing/schooling costs. It’s understood that it’s part of the expat package given that you have to leave the US.
If they’re really desperate for someone, they need to offer more. It’s telling that nobody has taken the position and they have only under qualified candidates. Qualified candidates are only enticed by money. Your wife’s giving up her salary should absolutely be part of the negotiation.
It sounds like your company just doesn’t want to compensate people properly for uprooting their entire lives to move overseas. That’s not a good indicator of how you’ll be treated there long term. I’d prob just find a new job.
Also, specifically to fianancial sector, if you’re moving to Luxembourg or wherever with high COL and doing EMIR, MiFID and GDPR and whatever latest regulations are constantly coming down, you’ll be pigeon holed and never make your way back to the US. It’s one thing to do EMEA stuff here in the US where you can still sell yourself as a US atty up to date with SEC and US regulations. It’s another to move abroad and be so specialized that you’ll be stuck there forever. The money and the career options are in the US, not Europe. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:39 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman Nobody moves abroad absent significant pay bump and COL stipend/housing/schooling costs.
what are you talking about |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:55 PM Author: high-end theater stage internal respiration Fine “nobody” is too broad.
If you’re in the legal, finance or other highly compensated industry though, there’s a standard expat package that includes all the extras to make it worth your while esp for people with families. He is in that industry and just works for a cheap company it looks like. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:56 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman those perks are becoming less common in those industries. tons of law firms are cutting COLA & expat benefits for exmaple. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931956) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:09 PM Author: high-end theater stage internal respiration Ok, but that doesn’t mean he should lower his standards particularly when this is going to fuck his US career and cause issues with his wife. It’s not as if he’s desperate for a move and looks like he’s in a position of strength to get more given that they’re approaching him AGAIN and havent found anybody (likely due to being too cheap). There’s no reason for him not to play hardball about his demands. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932060) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman it doesn't fuck his US career calm down (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932265) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:39 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford It absolutely can make it tougher. US companies tend to view expat experience as inferior to local experience except for other expat gigs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932300) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 3:23 PM Author: high-end theater stage internal respiration He wants to work for an investment adviser ultimately, this absolutely fucks his US career. Europe is a totally different space. Maybe if he wants to work for UCITS and SICAVs, go, but why would you do that, not as much money as working in the US. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35933340) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 5:26 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman nah ding u can hustle ur way into anything and hes still going to be working with the US team (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35934211) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 8:44 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Nutella. U havr a throw away? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937067) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 9:51 AM Author: high-end theater stage internal respiration Nutella1@gmail
I have kid activities until this afternoon so might take me a bit to respond |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 11:38 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Thanks. NP. I'm out with wife so prbly won't email until later anyways. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937627) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 9:27 AM Author: spectacular wrinkle philosopher-king As someone who has moved to Europe to work in a similar role, you are wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937214) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 11:03 AM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman Go on brother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937514) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:46 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford There's a huge amount of GDPR work in the US. I do a ton of it now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931847) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:02 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza From what I've gathered it's been either inexperienced candidates getting lowballed or experienced candidates unwilling to move. Experienced ppl are like, "Can I just work from London?" I guess the business has told them no.
My boss here in NAM wants me to stay. I already have a business that I own here in NAM (although, a small unit given the other business units). I'm being considered as the heir to another business unit.
At one point, they were considering letting me work from Chicago. But, not sure if that'll work given the time difference. I've been doing very well here in NAM and LatAm and getting exposure to big projects, so I think my career may be better here.
It's become a bit of a political mine field. When NAM business heard about the offer, I guess the business head called my boss to talk about it. While poaching isn't necessarily prohibited, I guess it's causing some issues btw the regions.
Also, expat pkgs are becoming tighter in Fin World. I was talkign to the Abu Dhabi SWF, and they've cut back too. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:03 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy Sounds like you should stay put. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932017) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:05 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932026) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:14 PM Author: high-end theater stage internal respiration It’s a no brainer to stay. Your boss likes you, you don’t have to start over with all new people and office politics and your career trajectory is better here.
The experienced people they’ve offered the job to haven’t moved because the money’s not enticing enough. If just shows how little they value the person ultimately taking the position. I wouldn’t do it. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:22 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza I'd like to work for an IA, and I don't think this gets me there. I've received offers from some of the institutional IAs like JH, but their pay wasn't great either. I get some IA work here in my current gig, but not as much as I;d like. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932179) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Crawly idiot expat packages are becoming slimmer and sometimes nonexistent in east asia because there is more local talent and less of a need to buy american and send an american over. not because it takes less to make a move make sense for an american family. idk about the situation in europe or mideast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932143) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:33 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford But it still doesn't change the dynamic that there has to be some concrete reason to make that jump. Doesn't seem to exist here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932249) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:34 PM Author: Crawly idiot there is probably less of a need to have much higher COL than locals in europe since y'all white and will be more comfortable with most quotidian shit.
in asia as a white expat, almost all will need to live in the white expat neighborhoods, shop at the white people food stores, talk to a non-locally trained doctor, etc. a lot of that stuff costs more than it does at home, and way more than it does for locals. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:38 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Fair, but you underestimate the differences in culture/cuisine/etc. between many Euro countries/cultures and Americans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932290) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:39 PM Author: Crawly idiot OFS I am AZN. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932303) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 11:31 AM Author: anal stage community account whats the $ difference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931080) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:07 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Total bump will be about a 35-40k Euro increase. They're desperate as they've struggled to find anyone with enough experience. They have other financial attys lined up but they lowball them because of their lack of relevant exp. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931372) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:08 PM Author: anal stage community account that will barely pay for your COL increase (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931384) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:11 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Yea, I guess I'm partly trying to figure out what's a number that I should ask for. Maybe I get them to chip in for housing if they can't budge more on salary. I'm going to run it past my current boss as a heat check, he's always been up front with me.
FWIW, if I go, I may absorb another business unit. So I'd oversee two businesses in EMEA, but company has been stingy and that may not come with a bump. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:13 PM Author: anal stage community account sounds like you want to do it. dont be a risk averse fgt and just go for it then (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931418) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:16 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza If I were single, I'd be there already. I don't mind living in a 1 bd/1 ba. Problem is wife takes a 50% paycut. So, HHI goes down given CoL. She's hinted at modifying the prenup if we move, which I guess is a reasonable request. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931451) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:16 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman ur wife is going to go fucking nuts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931463) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:27 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford And rightfully so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931613) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:27 PM Author: anal stage community account what the fuck? she would modify a prenup? what is wrong with your marriage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931607) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:28 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford That makes total sense, actually. Not sure why you would knock it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931621) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:29 PM Author: anal stage community account LOL jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931629) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:31 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Ok, you disagree? She should just fuck her career and if he leaves her for some local girl she should walk away with fairly little and with a broken career?
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:33 PM Author: anal stage community account lmao at a "marriage" being 2 conflicting economic interests that have to be constantly adjusted (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931685) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:34 PM Author: jet-lagged puce center black woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931710) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:34 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy love Fish, but cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931712) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford It generally isn't. When I became an expat my wife went from being unemployed to working at a large firm (which was the catalyst for the whole adventure) and I got an expat package. Everyone came out ahead. It just so happens that in this case he's contemplating trading off her career for a small bump in his. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931760) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:41 PM Author: anal stage community account ...and it should be discussed and agreed on as part of a marital unit, not a fucking re-negotiation over who gets what when you split up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931793) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:44 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Sounds like she is generally against it but is willing to let him do what he wants, but wants to make sure she doesn't get totally fucked by this. He was probably the person pushing the prenup anyway, so why isn't this totally fair game? If he in general asked her to become a stay at home wife and they had a prenup that left her with nothing, would you object to her saying "I can go along with it, but we would have to modify the prenup"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931828) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:06 PM Author: anal stage community account *shakes head sadly* oh fish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932038) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:17 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford I'm starting to see why XO seems to have a high divorce rate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932137) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:19 PM Author: anal stage community account Ive always knwon the autism level on here was incredibly high, but this is hilarious (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932146) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:28 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Autistic is a guy who wants a prenup to protect his assets but thinks it is totally outrageous when the working female is asked to tank her career for his and then she asks to modify the prenup. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932225) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:36 PM Author: Crawly idiot this is a red flag you shouldnt go. you may actually end up divorced for it ljl. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931740) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy agreed, but then divorce her so she gets nothing and then hie thee to Europe in your 1BR and fuck European chicks every weekend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931757) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:40 PM Author: Crawly idiot yea but his wife is likely correct in swaying against this ttt move (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931781) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:41 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford I don't understand why everyone is so down on the wife and thinks she should just go along with this. I'd understand if their arrangement was that she would be a housefrau and let him do whatever he wanted, but sounds like she is actually a working professional and expects to continue that (pretty typical for E. Euro women). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931797) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:46 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy i couldn't give two shits about the wife's career, but i agree with you that total HHI is an issue for them. they should ideally come out ahead. it's not the company's fault that his wife would take a pay cut, but that doesn't mean it's the right move for them at this time either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931842) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:49 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Ideally? It is more expensive to live there.
Also, being an expat is riskier than staying in the US.
Unless HHI is coming out WAY ahead it doesn't make any sense to me. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:51 PM Author: Scarlet Indecent Pozpig Really Tough Guy well, his decision sounds like it's not just purely financial. kinda like the NBA player who takes a pay cut to be on a winning team (or moves from Miami with no taxes to LA with high taxes).
if he's not coming out ahead after adjusting for COL, then he's going to have to weigh the value of being there for a couple years against the costs. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Well, I don't blame his wife for being sour on this. It fucks her in several different ways for no benefit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931907) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:08 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Yea. I totally get my wife on this. At one point, I was concerned I had another kid in the world so I wanted to protect some of my assets should a kid looking like me show up at my doorstep. TBH, I'd scrap most of it without hesitation, probably only keep the retirement accounts separate (even then not sure if I'd keep it). It doesn't really matter though because once we have a kid a lot of the prenup goes out the window (both contractually and legally). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932056) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:12 PM Author: grizzly candlestick maker forum LOL — you have a prenup and expect her to take a salary hit for your job? Lmfaooooo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932091) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza That was the whole point of this sub-thread and (I think) TMF's responses. No, I don't expect her to take a salary hit and still have the prenup in place. I'd gladly scrap it. It isn't a draconian prenup (it was essentially there is no spousal support until we have a kid [not sure she'd get any anyways given her current salary], retirement accounts are off limits, and (although already part of existing law) what we came into the marriage is ours (but because of transmutation, it's worth having it clear in a prenup). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932144) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:19 PM Author: anal stage community account bro ur marriage is gonna fail because both of you are too busy arguing over "whats in it for me". hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932150) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:25 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Not sure that's necessarily true. A constant concern has been my wife's career. I've made it clear to EMEA that such a big hit for my wife isn't acceptable. That's one of the main reasons I rejected it the first time. And, will likely be a big reason for rejecting it again.
A real factor is how things will change once we have kids. Will she really be a working mother, or will we want her to stay at home. Don't know. I have a much higher income potential than her, so we've taken that into consideration. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:31 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Nothing wrong with having that discussion sooner rather than later. We've had a plan on how to handle that for years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932243) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:30 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford So she shouldn't worry about decisions that could potentially totally fuck her over? Would you advise an XO bro to do that? Guessing the answer is no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932237) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:32 PM Author: anal stage community account Psa: it's not about the wife. Stop squawking over that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932247) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:33 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford How is this "not about the wife"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932250) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 9:29 AM Author: spectacular wrinkle philosopher-king LOL YOU ARE SO FUCKED (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937221) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:13 PM Author: Crawly idiot check local income tax rates and local col for expats
account for flights back and forth
if your wife may want to get pregnant in the next few years, ask for us expatriate healthcare (unless you're very comfortable with the local health insurance system)
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:15 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Hard situation with wife. I don't think I'd go if I thought wife wouldn't get set up. If she goes from $100k to $40k then you lost $60k in order to gain $35-40k and end up losing out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35931448) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: arousing mint casino crotch Where are you moving that your COL is going to be so much higher than Chicago.
IMO outside of London, Geneva, and Zurich, you could find similar COL depending on the commute (which won't be as bad because you will be working like 20% less hours). The apartment might be smaller but if it is just you two with no kid who cares? It's not like you want to lug all your furniture over there anyway.
I've lived and worked in Europe twice and downsized significantly from the U.S. with no regrets. You want to be spending your time there out and about anyway, not watching Netflix. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:15 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza We have two puppydoods that we need to bring along, so it limits our apts options.
Here in Chicago, we live near the Loop (i.e., downtown) and pay 2200 per month for a 2bd/2ba with doorman and standard gym with power rack. At this new place, we're looking at like $3,000 to 3,400 a month for a nice apartment (not to mention dog fees and most places don't even allow dogs).
Yea, seems like fuck this second offer. I'll likely decline (other option is talk to wife to see what would be an offer that would help us move over there, i.e., job relocation assistance for wife + housing costs, etc. |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Also, you need to find a place where you can walk your dogs, which can be problematic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932264) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:39 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Yea, that's been a big issue. It's obviously a tough decision but we're likely staying. We have a number in our head that if either of us gets in salary we make the move without discussion. We're not getting that here.
We're also worried about the transportation for the dogs. We have a pug and given their shortcomings may suffer on a flight. (Actually, they can't be on a flight (in the storage part) during like warm months.) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 1:41 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford You're going to have a huge problem finding a flight that will even accept the pug. A bunch of outright banned snub-nosed breeds under any circumstances. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932319) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 4:26 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza You have a throwaway? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35933855) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 1:43 AM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford Yes, but I rarely check it. Just catch me when I'm around and I'll give it to you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35936646) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 4:56 PM Author: olive multi-colored rehab Yeahhh, they can suffocate. Be careful. We brought this bro with us when we moved to Paris https://i.imgur.com/V16XW4k.jpg. We got an emotional support animal note from a doc so he slept in wife’s lap the whole way, but they are cutting down on that shit as of late. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35934022) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 2:24 PM Author: Crusty Black School Enjoy Germany bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35932732) |
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Date: April 27th, 2018 6:46 PM Author: Pea-brained dingle berry business firm I'm with the nut jobs itt: nutella and Tmf. This is not a good move (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35934621) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 12:30 AM Author: translucent regret locus I wouldn't do it. This sounds like a lateral move, to a place you don't really want to go, and is likely to interfere with both your marriage, and also your future plans (to return to USA). At best it makes you seem worldly and you get pigeonholed as the EMEA person once you move back to US and are cursed to having phone calls at weird times (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35936427) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 8:42 AM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza The one unique thing about this gig is mgt exp over a legal team and title bump. Not sure what mgt exp is worth in the long run. Guess it'd be good if I want to be like a GC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35937065) |
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Date: April 28th, 2018 5:29 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford A GC? Not unless you somehow transition that back to the US, keep a management title doing bread and butter US work and then keep moving up that track which if anything would be easier to accomplish without this move. Because it isn't like you're going to be the GC of an EU company as an American lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35939560) |
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Date: May 1st, 2018 1:01 PM Author: Onyx Kitty Cat Plaza Thanks to the bros and dudettes in here. Looks like it may turn into a term assignment with a promised return to the USA after a few years. This cops me COLA, pay bump, title bump, and return flights on economy:(. Waiting for soft approvals before presenting to the powers that be. HR is being a dick about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35958937) |
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Date: May 1st, 2018 1:42 PM Author: Bespoke bawdyhouse halford So where does this leave wife and you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3961280&forum_id=2#35959271) |