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Mueller has shown no evidence of collusion (The Nation)

In just over one year, special counsel Robert Mueller’s inve...
umber multi-colored kitty state
  06/14/18
i, for one, am SHOCKED
Clear Angry Jap Ticket Booth
  06/14/18
Bleeding obvious, but seeing The Nation admit it is as surpr...
cracking patrolman
  06/14/18
Not familiar with the nation, what is their ideology?
amber exhilarant coffee pot
  06/14/18
Seriously? They are left of Mao Zedong.
cracking patrolman
  06/14/18
...
Twinkling chad
  06/14/18
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=805Pz5n0cV0
unhinged generalized bond
  06/14/18
Lol oh boy
amber exhilarant coffee pot
  06/14/18
...
Exciting Green Toilet Seat Gay Wizard
  06/14/18
WLMAS sprinting from this thread to the nearest bourbon dist...
amber exhilarant coffee pot
  06/14/18
...
zippy becky
  06/14/18
...
Orange stirring orchestra pit
  06/14/18
...
Chrome mildly autistic filthpig
  06/14/18
...
Histrionic flirting feces
  04/10/19
the libs on reddit seem to believe that trump being indicted...
charismatic rose regret chapel
  06/14/18
LMAO
Clear Angry Jap Ticket Booth
  06/14/18
...
spruce swashbuckling rigor
  06/14/18
the desperation is palpable. they're waiting on hale-bopp w...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
Jesus that thread is essentially unreadable
Histrionic flirting feces
  06/14/18
as xo Limbaugh says, the dems and the media have done a pret...
Talented Community Account
  06/14/18
...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
...
splenetic water buffalo quadroon
  06/14/18
The libs who started this, and the bureaucratic snakes who h...
lilac hideous genital piercing shrine
  06/14/18
when you consider that the left wants to fundamentally chang...
Talented Community Account
  06/14/18
...
Yellow Codepig
  06/14/18
I don't dispute that it is consistent with liberal goals.
lilac hideous genital piercing shrine
  06/14/18
dangerous for them, i would say
Exciting Green Toilet Seat Gay Wizard
  06/14/18
repeal the 19th
fantasy-prone mentally impaired telephone indirect expression
  06/14/18
...
Talented Community Account
  06/14/18
Libs crying, losing hoap, as their precious “Russia collusio...
fiercely-loyal nursing home persian
  06/14/18
tick tock Trumpcucks
Sienna Jew Really Tough Guy
  06/14/18
Seems like the goal is to dig up anything they can on Trump,...
slap-happy kink-friendly place of business
  06/14/18
Also, they need something more salacious than some cockney r...
slap-happy kink-friendly place of business
  06/14/18
...T.... ....I.... .....C.... ......K.... ...T.R.U...
Sienna Jew Really Tough Guy
  06/14/18
Whoa even libs are saying this?
soul-stirring mad cow disease
  06/14/18
tbf The Nation libs tend to be true believers in ideology, n...
umber multi-colored kitty state
  06/14/18
Its important to remember that there are principled liberals...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
...
umber multi-colored kitty state
  06/14/18
There are like 10 of them left
soul-stirring mad cow disease
  06/14/18
...
fiercely-loyal nursing home persian
  06/14/18
...
balding step-uncle's house
  06/14/18
...
Exciting Green Toilet Seat Gay Wizard
  06/14/18
correct as a solid libertarian conservative I can deal with ...
Orange stirring orchestra pit
  06/14/18
LJl at these people above acting like there are a host of pr...
soul-stirring mad cow disease
  06/14/18
I can’t for the life of me remember the last time I came acr...
Orange stirring orchestra pit
  06/14/18
there are plenty. greenwald is a great example. he is very p...
umber multi-colored kitty state
  06/14/18
exactly. i find berniebros are most capable of having ratio...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
you touch on a problem with even principled liberals. the g...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
...
Bat Shit Crazy Big Church Stain
  06/14/18
how hard is it to believe that not everyone on the left beli...
shaky locale
  06/14/18
Not hard But hard to see a left media outlet take a princip...
soul-stirring mad cow disease
  06/14/18
The Intercept has been doing it for the past year
shaky locale
  06/14/18
Is Greenwald even left anymore
soul-stirring mad cow disease
  06/14/18
yes he is
shaky locale
  06/14/18
other than greenwald there are almost NO principled liberals...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
"they are paid at this point to generate clicks. that i...
shaky locale
  06/14/18
also true. i do think there are SOME principled conservativ...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
this is true. you can find a couple random ones on twitter, ...
umber multi-colored kitty state
  06/14/18
this is why political correctness is such a problem. when y...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
in my personal experience talking with libs, you have to be ...
Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested
  06/14/18
Lmao libs ur gonna die
Stimulating Poppy Piazza
  06/14/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 5:47 AM
Author: umber multi-colored kitty state

In just over one year, special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of the Trump campaign and Russia has generated five guilty pleas, 20 indictments, and more than 100 charges. None of these have anything to do with Mueller’s chief focus: the Russian government’s alleged meddling in the 2016 election and the Trump campaign’s suspected involvement. While it’s certainly possible that Mueller will make new indictments that go to the core of his case, what’s been revealed so far does not make a compelling brief for collusion.

The most high-level Trump campaign official to be indicted is Paul Manafort, as well as his former business partner and Trump campaign deputy Rick Gates. The charges, as a Virginia judge observed last month, “manifestly don’t have anything to do with the campaign or with Russian collusion.” Instead, Manafort and Gates are accused of financial crimes beginning in 2008, when they worked as political operatives for a Russia-leaning party in Ukraine (and for which Manafort was previously investigated, but not indicted).

There is widespread supposition that Manafort’s dealings in Ukraine make him a prime candidate for collusion with Moscow. But that stems from the mistaken belief that Manafort promoted Kremlin interests during his time in Kiev. The opposite appears to be the case. The New York Times recounts that Manafort “pressed [then–Ukrainian Prime Minister Viktor] Yanukovych to sign an agreement with the European Union that would link the country closer to the West—and lobbied for the Americans to support Ukraine’s membership.” If that picture is accurate, then Manafort’s activities in Ukraine during the period for which he has been indicted were diametrically opposed to the Kremlin’s agenda.

Manafort’s employment of Konstantin Kilimnik, who was indicted last week on obstruction charges in Manafort’s case, is seen as another Kremlin link. Kilimnik studied as a linguist at a Soviet-era military school and went on to become Manafort’s translator and fixer in Ukraine. According to Mueller, Kilimnik has “ties to Russian intelligence” that were active during the 2016 campaign. The evidence to support that assertion is sealed. For his part, Kilimnik denies being a Russian agent. Ukrainian authorities investigated him in August 2016 but did not bring charges. According to The Atlantic, “insinuations” that Kilimnik worked for Russian intelligence then “were never backed by more than a smattering of circumstantial evidence.”

While Manafort’s alleged offenses (aside from the new obstruction charges) occurred well before the 2016 campaign, those of former national security adviser Michael Flynn came after. Flynn admitted to making “false statements and omissions” about his conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the transition in December 2016. According to his charge sheet, Flynn falsely told agents that he did not request that Russia respond to new US sanctions “in a reciprocal manner” because the incoming Trump team “did not want Russia to escalate the situation.” Flynn also hid from FBI agents that, days before that call, he first asked Kislyak to veto a UN Security Council measure condemning Israeli settlement building, which the outgoing Obama administration had decided to let pass (Russia ultimately rebuffed Flynn and supported the measure).

The FBI was able to charge Flynn because it had concrete evidence that his statements to them were false: wiretaps of his conversations with Kislyak. But these calls offer nothing on collusion. As The Washington Post reported, FBI agents who “reviewed” the calls with Kislyak had “not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government.”

Like Flynn, George Papadopoulos has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI after the election. Although he is the lowest-level member of the Trump campaign to be charged, his case has emerged front and center. In the months since Papadopoulos’s October indictment, we have been told that the FBI launched an investigation, code named “ Crossfire Hurricane,” because of him. We also recently learned that the FBI enlisted an informant, Cambridge Professor Stefan Halper, to make contact with Papadopoulos and two other campaign officials, Carter Page and Sam Clovis, in a bid to pry loose information on potential campaign ties to Russia.

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In charging Papadopoulos, Mueller’s team raised the prospect that Papadopoulos was told about stolen Democratic e-mails before the theft of DNC e-mails was publicly known. According to the Statement of Offense, Maltese professor Joseph Mifsud informed Papadopoulos that “the Russians” had obtained “thousands of emails” containing “dirt” on Hillary Clinton. The two spoke in April 2016, before the first DNC e-mails were released. Papadopoulos volunteered to agents his information on Mifsud’s offer; he pleaded guilty to misrepresenting the timing of when he spoke to Mifsud. All of this would be more explosive if, as the Mueller team suggested, Mifsud actually “had substantial connections to Russian government officials,” and recently “met with some of those officials in Moscow.”

And yet there were ample reasons to question whether Papadopoulos was a plausible conduit for Trump-Kremlin collusion. He was an unpaid volunteer known for embellishing credentials; who not only didn’t land a job in the Trump administration post-election but couldn’t even get his travel expenses reimbursed during the campaign.

It is also quite possible that Mifsud was referring to the 30,000 State Department e-mails deleted from Hillary Clinton’s private server, by that point a well-publicized controversy. Papadopoulos’s wife, Simona Mangiante, now says that Papadopoulos believes that to be the case. She also says that Papadopoulos has no knowledge of collusion and pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI only because Mueller threatened to charge him for having been an unregistered foreign agent of Israel.

If Papadopoulos offers Mueller nothing on collusion, the other main staple of collusion allegations—the infamous June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower—is an unlikely alternative. The music publicist who set up the meeting, Rob Goldstone, e-mailed Donald Trump Jr. with an offer of “official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia,”—not, it should be noted, stolen e-mails. But because Goldstone also wrote of “very high level and sensitive information,” as “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” his message has been quoted endlessly as Exhibit A for a Trump-Russia plot.

There were already reasons to question whether an e-mail sent by a kooky publicist is plausible groundwork for such a high-level conspiracy. The recently released transcripts of Goldstone’s congressional testimony give us more. Goldstone explains that he set up the meeting on behalf of Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop singer who employed Goldstone as a publicist, and whose father, Aras Agalarov, is a billionaire who partnered with Trump on the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

Goldstone recounts that Emin gave him “limited information”—and that was a problem. Emin had told him that a “well-connected Russian attorney,” Natalia Veselnitskaya, had met with his father and “told him that they had some interesting information that could potentially be damaging regarding funding by Russians to the Democrats and to its candidate, Hillary Clinton.” Goldstone’s follow-up attempts to get “more information” from Emin yielded nothing more. So Goldstone drew upon his professional tools. As he told the Senate Judiciary Committee: “I had puffed it and used some keywords that I thought would attract Don Jr.’s attention.” In his field, he explained, “publicist puff is how they get meetings.”

By his telling, Goldstone was not being a Kremlin intermediary; he was being a good publicist. His Russian pop-star client had passed on vague information based on what his father had told him about what a Russian lawyer said. His “publicist puff” secured the meeting. All parties contend that the meeting ended quickly after the assembled Trump representatives struggled to understand what Veselnitskaya was talking about, which included none of the advertised incriminating information. Veselnitskaya says she tried to discuss repealing the Magnitsky Act sanctions on Russia, which is not hard to believe given that Veselnitskaya and her client, Prevazon Holdings, have fought those sanctions for years.

Donald Trump Jr. is often faulted for accepting Goldstone’s overture to begin with, since it floated damaging information from a foreign power. He is also faulted for initially providing a misleading statement about the meeting to the media. But lying to reporters is not an indictable offense, and neither is showing a willingness to obtain foreign dirt. During the 2016 contest, the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign accepted help from Ukraine and paid for the salacious and outlandish Steele “dossier” from across the pond.

This brings us to the last major indictment, and the first one to include Russian nationals: 13 Russians and three companies accused of running a US-aimed social media campaign out of the St. Petersburg–based Internet Research Agency (IRA). By now the details are well known: About $100,000 was spent on Facebook ads, more than half of that after the November 2016 vote. The bulk of the remaining $46,000 in ads ran during the primaries. The majority of the ads did not even reference the election and got little traction.

Yet prominent media and political voices have portrayed the ads as a major component of a “sophisticated” Russian interference campaign akin to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. On his current book tour, former national-intelligence director James Clapper has declared that, taken together, the Russian ads and stolen Democratic e-mails handed Trump the presidency.

Now that we can see all of the ads for ourselves, it is difficult to argue with Facebook executive Rob Goldman, who said that “swaying the election was *NOT* the main goal.” The main goal, in fact, appears to be exactly what Facebook initially found, according to The Washington Post, before the social-media giant came under pressure from congressional Democrats: “A review by the company found that most of the groups behind the problematic pages had clear financial motives, which suggested that they weren’t working for a foreign government.”

Mueller’s indictment reinforces Facebook’s initial conclusion. The defendants “used the accounts to receive money from real US persons in exchange for posting promotions and advertisements” on their social-media pages, for a fee of “between 25 and 50 U.S. dollars per post.” And not only does Mueller say that the troll farm had no ties to the Trump campaign, he doesn’t even allege that it worked with the Russian government. The IRA’s owner, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is said to be close to Putin. But even if the ads came right from the Kremlin, does anyone think that the bizarre offerings—from Buff Bernie to pro-Beyoncé and anti-Beyoncé to the juvenile attacks on Hillary Clinton—impacted the US voters who saw them?

One of the indicted firms is challenging the case in court, accusing Mueller of inventing “a make-believe crime” in order to “justify his own existence” and “indict a Russian—any Russian.” Whether the troll farm’s indictment is make-believe or not, Mueller has yet to indict anyone—let alone any Russian—for Russiagate’s underlying crime: the theft of Democratic Party e-mails. And more than a year after they accused the Russian government of carrying it out, intelligence officials have yet to produce a shred of proof.

The January 2017 intelligence report begat an endless cycle of innuendo and unverified claims, inculcating the public with fears of a massive Russian interference operation and suspicions of the Trump campaign’s complicity. The evidence to date casts doubt on the merits of this national preoccupation, and with it, the judgment of the intelligence, political, and media figures who have elevated it to such prominence.

https://www.thenation.com/article/mueller-indictments-still-dont-add-collusion/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243188)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 5:47 AM
Author: Clear Angry Jap Ticket Booth

i, for one, am SHOCKED

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243190)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:00 AM
Author: cracking patrolman

Bleeding obvious, but seeing The Nation admit it is as surprising as coming home and finding your housecat fucking your wife.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243192)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:02 AM
Author: amber exhilarant coffee pot

Not familiar with the nation, what is their ideology?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243194)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:03 AM
Author: cracking patrolman

Seriously? They are left of Mao Zedong.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243195)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:03 AM
Author: Twinkling chad



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243196)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:05 AM
Author: unhinged generalized bond

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=805Pz5n0cV0

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243199)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:19 AM
Author: amber exhilarant coffee pot

Lol oh boy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243210)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:12 AM
Author: Exciting Green Toilet Seat Gay Wizard



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243205)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:00 AM
Author: amber exhilarant coffee pot

WLMAS sprinting from this thread to the nearest bourbon distillery why?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243193)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:47 AM
Author: zippy becky



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243734)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:22 AM
Author: Orange stirring orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243952)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 1:18 PM
Author: Chrome mildly autistic filthpig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36245221)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 10th, 2019 3:25 PM
Author: Histrionic flirting feces



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#38068422)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:07 AM
Author: charismatic rose regret chapel

the libs on reddit seem to believe that trump being indicted and arrested for "treason" is a done deal:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8qtb3q/the_mueller_indictments_still_dont_add_up_to/

if they're unhinged now, jfc, they're going to be even worse after this investigation sputters out with nothing significant happening.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243201)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:11 AM
Author: Clear Angry Jap Ticket Booth

LMAO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243204)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 8:57 AM
Author: spruce swashbuckling rigor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243502)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:11 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

the desperation is palpable. they're waiting on hale-bopp with white shoes on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243556)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:12 AM
Author: Histrionic flirting feces

Jesus that thread is essentially unreadable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243565)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:14 AM
Author: Talented Community Account

as xo Limbaugh says, the dems and the media have done a pretty dangerous thing

not only have they convinced their base that we have a POTUS who committed treason and is illegitimate, but they have ALSO convinced them that foreign powers can and do control our elections process.

how often now will you see the left cry "collusion" and "election interference" every time a GOP candidate wins a close race?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243572)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:15 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243580)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:40 AM
Author: splenetic water buffalo quadroon



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243708)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:45 AM
Author: lilac hideous genital piercing shrine

The libs who started this, and the bureaucratic snakes who have been executing their orders, have done immense damage to our nation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243722)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:00 AM
Author: Talented Community Account

when you consider that the left wants to fundamentally change our country and its founding and constitution, it's not that surprising

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243804)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:23 AM
Author: Yellow Codepig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243956)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:56 AM
Author: lilac hideous genital piercing shrine

I don't dispute that it is consistent with liberal goals.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244291)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:21 AM
Author: Exciting Green Toilet Seat Gay Wizard

dangerous for them, i would say

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243939)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 6:25 AM
Author: fantasy-prone mentally impaired telephone indirect expression

repeal the 19th

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243213)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 8:58 AM
Author: Talented Community Account



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243506)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 8:16 AM
Author: fiercely-loyal nursing home persian

Libs crying, losing hoap, as their precious “Russia collusion” narrative circles the drain.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243393)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:11 AM
Author: Sienna Jew Really Tough Guy

tick tock Trumpcucks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243562)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:12 AM
Author: slap-happy kink-friendly place of business

Seems like the goal is to dig up anything they can on Trump, collusion being the pretext.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243568)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:14 AM
Author: slap-happy kink-friendly place of business

Also, they need something more salacious than some cockney real estate deal. It's got be be juicy, hence the push for Cohen (who is legit shady).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243574)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:15 AM
Author: Sienna Jew Really Tough Guy

...T....

....I....

.....C....

......K....

...T.R.U.M.P.C.U.C.K.S.

.....O....

......C....

.......K....

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243576)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:36 AM
Author: soul-stirring mad cow disease

Whoa even libs are saying this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243684)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:40 AM
Author: umber multi-colored kitty state

tbf The Nation libs tend to be true believers in ideology, not like Huff Post libs who just follow whatever Hillary or whoever tells them to do. im not super surprised at this article, its like greenwald questioning dems and the whole russia narrative, principled libs can see through the BS

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243707)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 9:47 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

Its important to remember that there are principled liberals out there who really do want the best for this nation. They simply have a competing vision.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243732)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:00 AM
Author: umber multi-colored kitty state



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243806)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:01 AM
Author: soul-stirring mad cow disease

There are like 10 of them left

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243812)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:03 AM
Author: fiercely-loyal nursing home persian



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243817)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:14 AM
Author: balding step-uncle's house



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243882)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:22 AM
Author: Exciting Green Toilet Seat Gay Wizard



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243943)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:25 AM
Author: Orange stirring orchestra pit

correct as a solid libertarian conservative I can deal with competing visions fine if the people holding them are going to be honest and sincere about them

it’s low IQ shitlibs I can’t stand

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243974)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2018 10:27 AM
Author: soul-stirring mad cow disease

LJl at these people above acting like there are a host of principled libs left out there

These people made Romney out to be a bigoted misogynistic Hitler not 6 years ago

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243990)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:30 AM
Author: Orange stirring orchestra pit

I can’t for the life of me remember the last time I came across one

they used to be everywhere, plenty of times in the past I’ve had huge yelling matches with genuine lib and borderline communist friends about real positions and then we go back to drinking beer and talking bullshit

can’t do that anymore

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244022)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:31 AM
Author: umber multi-colored kitty state

there are plenty. greenwald is a great example. he is very popular. tons of bernie supporters are of this type

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244029)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:34 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

exactly. i find berniebros are most capable of having rational conversations that are actually fruitful.

there is one guy i deal with in particular--coworker--who has moved to the best you can get with a NYC lib: "it's been a good presidency so far, but i hate this guy. why does it have to be this guy?" and he comes from an idea of the "dignitas of the office" which i think is nonsense. i sent him the LBJ taking a shit in the field story. he had nothing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244061)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:32 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

you touch on a problem with even principled liberals. the goal post is always moving with them--which is fine--as long as you know that. many can be reasoned with. ime, i've been working on 3 liberals myself and moved a lot of them further right in their thinking. will they ever be trumpmos? no. but i'm not trying to reproduce myself, it's more like keep people honest.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244036)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:40 AM
Author: Bat Shit Crazy Big Church Stain



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244112)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:08 AM
Author: shaky locale

how hard is it to believe that not everyone on the left believes exactly the same thing?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243843)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:09 AM
Author: soul-stirring mad cow disease

Not hard

But hard to see a left media outlet take a principled stance on Trump collusion

It simply hasnt been done previously

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243847)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:16 AM
Author: shaky locale

The Intercept has been doing it for the past year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243904)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:19 AM
Author: soul-stirring mad cow disease

Is Greenwald even left anymore

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243925)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:30 AM
Author: shaky locale

yes he is

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244020)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:36 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

other than greenwald there are almost NO principled liberals in the media. they are paid at this point to generate clicks. that is all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244083)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:37 AM
Author: shaky locale

"they are paid at this point to generate clicks. that is all."

Congrats, you've described all media.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244090)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:37 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

also true. i do think there are SOME principled conservatives in media, but it's mostly all a click factory.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244097)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:38 AM
Author: umber multi-colored kitty state

this is true. you can find a couple random ones on twitter, but never in mainstream media. greenwald had to start his own shit, and even most of the other dudes on there are TERRIBLE

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244104)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:42 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

this is why political correctness is such a problem. when you can't speak freely about what needs to be talked about coupled with a monochrome media, open wounds get infected. keeping as many alternative media sources open coupled with the ability to actually talk openly and honestly with others is key. you make the most ground up in the war of ideas face to face with people. you have to invite libs to your house and be willing to take a little abuse and know what your talking about. also, having an actual ideology matters.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244130)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:45 AM
Author: Duck-like Concupiscible Idea He Suggested

in my personal experience talking with libs, you have to be willing to weather an emotional storm with eventual ad hominems to get to real talking. the key is not to escalate or get to their level. let them have their moment of catharsis and don't feed the fire, THEN you can have a constructive conversation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36244161)



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Date: June 14th, 2018 10:07 AM
Author: Stimulating Poppy Piazza

Lmao libs ur gonna die

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4001777&forum_id=2#36243837)