The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Is America headed toward a new Civil War? (link)
Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 25th, 2018 11:58 AM Author: well-lubricated scarlet senate sweet tailpipe https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/06/25/sanders-nielsen-incidents-suggest-new-us-civil-war-underway-column/729141002/
"Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Kirstjen Nielsen experiences at restaurants suggest a 'soft' civil war is well underway. It will get worse unless we learn to stop hating each other. AFP AFP_1672YA A POL USA DC (Photo: Brendan Smialowski, AFP/Getty Images)
CONNECT TWEET 67 COMMENT MORE The other day, authorTom Ricks asked whether we’re heading toward a civil war. "I don’t believe we’re to Kansas of the 1850s yet. But we seem to be lurching ... in that direction,” he wrote.
Ricks was commenting on “What Democratic rage would look like,” a Bloomberg opinion column that quotes political scientist Thomas Schaller as saying, "I think we're at the beginning of a soft civil war. ... I don't know if the country gets out of it whole."
That sounds pretty serious. The column by Francis Wilkinson presents a catalog of things Democrats are mad about — from the existence of the electoral college to Trump’s “propaganda apparatus” — and predicts that if Democrats lose the midterm elections, there will be hell to pay. (And Republicans, you know, could make a similar list of their own complaints.)
“I don't know exactly what that would look like," Wilkinson writes. "But liberals have a great deal of cultural, academic and economic heft, stretching from Hollywood to Harvard. Just this week, someHollywood powerhouses flirted with leveraging their clout against the Trumpist Fox News. There are endless variations on such a power play. If Democrats opt to use their power more aggressively — breaking rules — Schaller's soft civil war hardly seems unlikely.”
The civil war is already starting Well, actually this sort of thing seems to be well underway. Hollywood has basically turned its products, and its award shows, into showcases for "the resistance." Americans are already sorting themselves into communities that are predominantly red or blue. And in heavily blue Washington, D.C., Trump staffers find that a lot of people don’t want to date them because of their politics.
White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was even kicked out of the Red Hen restaurant in Lexington, Virginia, because the owner and employees disliked her politics. This seems like a small thing, but it would have been largely unthinkable a generation ago.
And, in a somewhat less “soft” manifestation, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was bullied out of a restaurant by an angry anti-Trump mob, and a similar mob also showed up outside of her home.
More: Red Hen's LGBT employees should have made sure Sarah Sanders got served
Sarah Huckabee Sanders guide to refusing service: Christian baker can, Red Hen can't
Why is Harvard discriminating against Asian Americans? 'Diversity' is no excuse for racial bias.
Will it get worse? Probably. To have a civil war, soft or otherwise, takes two sides. But as pseudonymous tweeter Thomas H. Crown notes, it’s childishly easy in these days to identify people in mobs, and then to dispatch similar mobs to their homes and workplaces. Eventually, he notes, it becomes “protesters all the way down, and if we haven't yet figured out that can lead to political violence, we're dumb.”
Apparently, some of us are dumb or else want violence. As Crown warns, “We carefully erected civil peace to avoid this sort of devolution-to-a-mob. It is a great civilizational achievement and it is intensely fragile.” Yes, it is indeed fragile, and many people will miss it when it’s entirely gone.
Political contempt is the problem Marriage counselors say that when a couple view one another with contempt, it’s a top indicator that the relationship is likely to fail. Americans, who used to know how to disagree with one another without being mutually contemptuous, seem to be forgetting this. And the news media, which promote shrieking outrage in pursuit of ratings and page views, are making the problem worse.
What would make things better? It would be nice if people felt social ties that transcend politics. Americans’ lives used to involve a lot more intermediating institutions — churches, fraternal organizations, neighborhoods — that crossed political lines. Those have shrunk and decayed, and in fact, for many people politics seems to have become a substitute for religion or fraternal organizations. If you find your identity in your politics, you’re not going to identify with people who don’t share them.
The rules of bourgeois civility also helped keep things in check, but of course those rules have been shredded for years. We may come to miss them.
America had one disastrous civil war, and those who fought it did a surprisingly good job of coming together afterward, realizing how awful it was to have a political divide that set brother against brother. Let us hope that we will not have to learn that lesson again in a similar fashion." |
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:02 PM Author: Electric sex offender good piece (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305771) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:03 PM Author: magenta excitant toaster "Americans’ lives used to involve a lot more intermediating institutions — churches, fraternal organizations, neighborhoods — that crossed political lines. Those have shrunk and decayed, and in fact, for many people politics seems to have become a substitute for religion or fraternal organizations." These are extremely important lines. |
 |
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:08 PM Author: supple preventive strike lay Immediately had this on my clipboard. XO ahead of the curve as always. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305803) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:20 PM Author: french milk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312547) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:09 PM Author: Electric sex offender diversity and inclusiveness have really harmed those imo.
the only places where people seem to come together are public school systems, politics, and GC shit like restaurants and sporting events |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:10 PM Author: Disturbing Bull Headed Crackhouse Putnam and Murray vindicated (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305816) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:13 PM Author: claret point http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2363477&mc=67&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305834) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:14 PM Author: Disturbing Bull Headed Crackhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305836) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:22 PM Author: Carmine frum pit I noticed this a decade ago (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305887) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:23 PM Author: Disturbing Bull Headed Crackhouse (Robert Putnam) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305897) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:20 PM Author: french milk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312548) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:54 PM Author: Alcoholic Coral Trailer Park (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306087) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:58 PM Author: Hot French Chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306118) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 9:02 PM Author: Fishy University Cuckoldry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36309066) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 9:08 PM Author: drab state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36309107) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 9:29 AM Author: Sooty passionate orchestra pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311033) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 12:56 PM Author: dead apoplectic lodge legend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312387) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:08 PM Author: Twinkling bat-shit-crazy home This is the direct result of the far left and fake news media labeling conservative opinions, mainly opposition to illegal immigrants and tranny bathroom like stuff, as racist and homophobic etc.
Also from labeling Trump racist against blacks and Hispanics, even though he's never said or done anything actually racist against blacks and the only thing he's said that's actually racist towards Hispanics was an intentionally misconstrued quote from the beginning of his campaign.
The media wants civil war and the left is falling for it. |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:21 PM Author: mint cerebral stage boistinker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305879) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:28 PM Author: Fuchsia high-end voyeur libs are very low IQ and the media is incredibly biased and dishonest. They outright lie and in order to find out the truth you need to really dig and read original documents because no "reporting" is objective. In short, we need to gas all libs then we can go forwards, bring on the war. Libs will be a memory inside a few months. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305929) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:11 PM Author: Navy bonkers step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306203) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:10 PM Author: Navy bonkers step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306199) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 8:10 PM Author: mauve fragrant toilet seat ^^ fair-minded guys who get it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36308770) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:22 PM Author: Mischievous Odious House What would a real civil war even look like today. The government would just bomb out the already bombed-out rust belt and it would be over. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305888) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:27 PM Author: Wonderful Chartreuse Trust Fund It would be based truck drivers and construction workers blocking roads with trailers, burning tires, and bulldozers in and out of major shitlib cities and starving them into submission. After three days of this, nogs would riot and loot everything in sight, killing all the urban bugmen. It would be like New Orleans-Katrina on steroids (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305926) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:28 PM Author: Fuchsia high-end voyeur no actual fighting, libs are dickless (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305937) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:28 PM Author: claret point unngghhh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305938) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:28 PM Author: Disturbing Bull Headed Crackhouse Dont see military bombing their own hometowns for a shitlib regime (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305936) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 9:29 AM Author: Sooty passionate orchestra pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311038) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:35 PM Author: stimulating indian lodge becky Every recent war has been assymetrcial urban warfare with untrained troops fending off foreign powers with machine guns and small scale explosives.
To assert that the govenment is better armed and conclude that this is the reason they’d immediatey quell anything ignores this. |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: Ebony business firm goal in life This, all our fancy weapons are useless in this scenario, we don't even have enough munitions to bomb a large chuck of the US population even if we wanted to. Spending a million bucks per kill and fucking up your own infrastructure isn't going to happen, the gov't would fall before that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305995) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:39 PM Author: Mischievous Odious House This would be different though. I don’t think the US government would be concerned about civilian casualties or collateral damage. Anyone who opposes the global order is worth more dead to the ruling elites. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36305997) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:48 PM Author: Wonderful Chartreuse Trust Fund Good luck with the logistics. Hint: logistics are what matters most in warfare. Amateurs discuss tactics while experts deal with logistics. Good luck with all that fancy equipment when some good ole boy vets from Alabama set up IEDs along the road ways, blowing up your fuel tankers and other supply line supports. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306056) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: claret point Not to mention the US Army Materiel Command is located in Alabama lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306077) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:54 PM Author: Fuchsia high-end voyeur US Military and Alabama good ole boys are going to be on the same side of this conflict. I don't think some soybois and jews are going to be rigging IEDs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306088) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 12:54 PM Author: Brass aggressive nowag Lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306090) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 8:01 PM Author: contagious private investor To be fair,
MFCR, anyone who thinks that the sight of government troops intentionally shooting hundreds or thousands of white American citizens on American soil wouldn't immediately galvanize the sane contingent of the population to effectively topple the federal government is delusional. America may not be the nation it was 50 (or even 20) years ago, but even in 2018 Americans of all races and creeds by and large would not stand for that.
And that's assuming that the military was willing to go along with this imaginary civil war in the first place--which is an extremely dubious proposition. |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:09 PM Author: jet theatre faggotry If there is a civil war, it will start with shitlib and conservahero groups, clubs, unorganized militias, etc. going at it with the military sitting on the sidelines. Widespread Charlottesville incidents, political assassinations, mob attacks, etc. directed at intimidating the other side. It starts slow and escalates slowly, as things that were previously unheard of become common and no longer shocking (i.e. leftists attacking people at Trump rallies, etc.) The powers that be don't crack down on their side because they, in the absence of action, are encouraging this kind of political violence and warfare (i.e. San Jose, etc.)
In a way, this has already started, it just hasn't escalated yet into what most people consider a "war." It would be great if things cooled down, but the November midterm and 2020 POTUS election are likely going to see a more violence as opposed to less.
US military doesn't engage in US Civil War II, instead servicemen fade into the partisan camps as private citizens. The tanks and planes stay parked. |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: flesh bawdyhouse mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311119) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 3:11 PM Author: Heady juggernaut Whites being harassed and targeted in the cities (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36307016) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:34 PM Author: trip rusted gay wizard See below re Dan Carlin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312648) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:04 PM Author: Honey-headed razzle church building striped hyena except there wouldn't be just two sides. there'd be about 10-12 different factions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306150) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:09 PM Author: Wonderful Chartreuse Trust Fund You'll have inter-statal coalitions. Example: there would be like a dozen factions within Illinois that would unite/work together to stop the tyranny of Cook County/Chicago. You'd see the same thing with California. The hinterland would form coalitions to wipe out and starve the coastal cities into submission. |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:15 PM Author: Maroon place of business (guy whose knowledge of Chicago comes from Fox News)
Chicago area non-Jewish whites are still racist at heart and would band together. |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: Twinkling bat-shit-crazy home It's hard to imagine what the non- Fox News media will be like heading into Midterms. It'll be worse than it is now or was before 2016 election. If GOP keeps house and senate there will be a campaign to change our electoral system and abolish the "racist" constitution. It's gonna be insane. All because of the media and 10% of our population which are freaks.
I hope Trump enacts martial law |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: jet theatre faggotry It's almost as if libs have picked the worst possible issue to campaign on - open borders immigration - because they want to lose this mid term to get fired up for full partisan warfare & the opportunity to force constitutional level change. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306468) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: Twinkling bat-shit-crazy home And I think they genuinely misunderstand the views of 70% of America.
Libs think social media and sites like Vice represent the mainstream |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 2:07 PM Author: Marvelous regret fat ankles interesting take. Either libs or the global illuminati that wants unrest in America. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306573) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 12:02 PM Author: vigorous canary jew "I hope Trump enacts martial law"
And I'm sure you consider yourself part of the 90% of the population that is normal. |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:00 PM Author: dead apoplectic lodge legend I've seen a lot of FB libs going on about the electoral college and equal Senate representation lately. These people are willing, if not eager, to destroy our system if government. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312419) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:15 PM Author: vigorous canary jew Both have been changed from the way they were originally introduced. I wouldn't call that "destroying our system of government" anymore than the political reforms of the late 19th and early 20th century were. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312515) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 2:00 PM Author: unhinged new version “Churches, fraternal organizations and neighborhoods” were never really integrated. They crossed political lines but not others (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306521) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: well-lubricated scarlet senate sweet tailpipe indeed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306535) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 9:45 AM Author: Sooty passionate orchestra pit And INTERSECTIONAL people were outsiders, and because of that it is good that they declined... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311094) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 3:08 PM Author: dun doctorate "new" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36306994) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 8:11 PM Author: amber school DUH what he fuck we do about it other than XO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36308775) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 8:13 PM Author: mauve fragrant toilet seat Wonder what author’s IQ is (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36308782) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 11:56 AM Author: Brass aggressive nowag really find your recent interest in IQ fascinating (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311977) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 8:14 PM Author: Honey-headed razzle church building striped hyena yes. libs are finally coming around to the realization that trumpmos cant be reasoned with and are incapable of compromise and just need to be killed with fire (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36308784) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 8:15 PM Author: mauve fragrant toilet seat McKesson is disabling most of them with opiates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36308789) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 9:20 PM Author: Honey-headed razzle church building striped hyena 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36309180) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 9:39 AM Author: Disturbing Bull Headed Crackhouse You have some personal experience with drug addictions? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311056) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:11 PM Author: Brass aggressive nowag lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312491) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 9:07 PM Author: ruddy twinkling uncleanness yeah which is ironic because libs are actually going to die (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36309101) |
|
Date: June 25th, 2018 9:10 PM Author: exciting parlour gaming laptop the empire is on fire & rotting at the core (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36309118) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: racy brindle hospital pocket flask If trump feels that he will be in danger after leaving office we can expect some crazy shit to go down (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36311058) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 12:10 PM Author: Aphrodisiac chestnut den deer antler LMAO @ some morbidly obese purple haired feminist sweatily waddling up Main Street flanked by two soy boys all holding guns they don’t know how to shoot and trying to menace some unhinged right wing gun nut with a six figure private arsenal
Something like 8 out of 10 deaths in Colombia’s civil war were right wingers massacring leftists. There’s a reason for that. |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:17 PM Author: Maroon place of business (nebbish lawyer fag dreaming of "glory" in the cival war as he analyzes deep patterns in clause 9.6) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312528) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:19 PM Author: Carmine frum pit (mentally ill faggot) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312539) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:36 PM Author: Aphrodisiac chestnut den deer antler LOL at me being a lawyer, you dumb faggot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312670) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:13 PM Author: Talented glassy kitty Whichever side has more NEETS playing XBox flying drones will win (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312500) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: racy brindle hospital pocket flask (neet with delusions of grandeur) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312662) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:33 PM Author: trip rusted gay wizard Dan Carlin recently did a podcast on this. Argued that a “civil war” would look like the 1968ish time period when there were thousands of left-wing terrorist bombings (the weathermen, etc.), not a conventional civil war.
https://www.dancarlin.com/product/common-sense-316-the-day-of-the-dove/ |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:37 PM Author: Aphrodisiac chestnut den deer antler This is most likely TCR. Note that many of the people teaching these snowflake college cunts about this shit were radicals in the 60s-70s. I don’t think that’s a coincidence (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312688) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:40 PM Author: trip rusted gay wizard That shit won’t fly in a post 9/11america though. Trump would declare martial law and start cracking skulls. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312706) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:44 PM Author: histrionic self-centered party of the first part (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312731) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:45 PM Author: Sooty passionate orchestra pit As well he should. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312735) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:42 PM Author: Electric sex offender (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312721) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:46 PM Author: mint cerebral stage boistinker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312741) |
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:46 PM Author: Heady juggernaut he's wrong. it will look more like the ferguson/milwaukee/charlotte riots, where hoods just wantonly attack any whites they see
|
|
Date: June 26th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: vigorous canary jew There were far worse riots in the 60's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4009818&forum_id=2#36312810) |