Any 'well-known' composer more underrated than CESAR FRANCK?
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:33 AM Author: glittery selfie
His chamber work is extraordinary. Had a complete mastery of cyclic form. Greatest organ composer next to JS Bach himself and basically invented the modern french organ school. Also the greatest Belgian composer. Prestigious as FUCK
https://youtu.be/tare6rI_d-s
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36638297) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 1:51 PM Author: gaped very tactful boltzmann
To be fair,
Yes, many in fact.
“His chamber work is extraordinary.”
Provide an exhaustive list of all of his chamber works that you feel are masterpieces.
“Greatest organ composer next to JS Bach himself.”
Handel, Messiaen, and Liszt (and possibly Buxtehude, Saint-Saens, and Widor) would like a word.
“Greatest Belgian composer.”
Ockeghem and Dufay are both at least as great in their respective styles, and arguably more important in the (early) development of Western music. Also,” Greatest Belgian composer” is a little bit like “Greatest Irish chef.” Congratulations?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36639126) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 3:25 PM Author: glittery selfie
Violin Sonata
String quartet
Piano quintet
Also prelude, chorale and fugue
Liszt’s organ output was wonderful, but not as extensive or nearly as influencial as Franck. Personally I’d take Franck’s organ output over messiaen’s, but yeah i agree his work is great too. And yes i was being cheeky with the greatest Belgian comment
Edit: also surprised you didnt bring up MENDELSSOHN
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36639620) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 4:02 PM Author: gaped very tactful boltzmann
To be fair,
I would agree with that list—but I think the key point is that it stops there. It’s a small body of exquisite work, and unfortunately it’s not matched in any other genres (ie, his solo piano music sucks... his symphonies have fallen very low in both public and critical estimation... no concertos... his operas never had much traction... etc.) In other words he’s a bit like Ravel, if Ravel only wrote his chamber music and nothing else.
Forgot about Mendelssohn, good catch.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36639782) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: gaped very tactful boltzmann
To be fair,
Bartok probably isn’t underrated enough to qualify, but he’s a far greater composer than Franck and for a long time he would have definitely qualified.
Other composers who are probably more currently underrated (in comparison to their respective levels of greatness) than Franck include Weber, Saint-Saens, Chabrier, Rimsky-Korsakoff, Scriabin, Martinu, and Enescu. Maybe Sibelius and Elgar.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36639183) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: gaped very tactful boltzmann
To be fair,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nrg7Lqfak
Edit: Saint-Saens is criminally underrated, due in large part to the fact that he's best known for some of the weakest potboilers that he ever wrote. He's not the deepest composer, but he was a genius who wrote prolifically *for nearly 70 years,* and a lot of his stuff is far greater than "Carnival of the Animals" and "The Swan." The Organ Symphony and Samson and Delilah aren't *that* obscure, but far fewer people today are familiar with any of his piano concertos... or his first cello concerto... or his third violin concerto... etc.
Incidentally, Saint-Saens taught Faure, and Faure later flatly stated that he felt that he owed "everything" to Saint-Saens. People also tend to think of Saint-Saens as a nihilistic reactionary raging futilely against Debussy and Ravel (which was admittedly true late in his life), but in doing so they forget that he started out as one of the greatest musical prodigies in history, and in his early adult career he was both an important and influential figure in the progressive wing of musical development (championing both Liszt and Wagner in 1850's France) as well as one of the first real "musicologists" who instilled in his students a working understanding of, and respect for, the great music of the past. Even late into his career, when he was a depressed and broken man, he still managed to push the envelope--for example, he was the first "great" composer to write a film score in 1908, and he was the earliest-born "great" composer to leave us with commercial sound recordings.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36639199) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 4:04 PM Author: gaped very tactful boltzmann
To be fair,
Let’s say I concede that. Let’s also say I concede that Cappricio Espagnole and Flight of the Bumblebee are similarly overplayed.
Name one single other work by R-K that you have ever heard played live in concert. (And bear in mind when you fail that he was a prolific and long-lived composer who is arguably the greatest orchestrator in history, likely one of the greatest composition teachers in history, probably the second or third greatest Russian opera composer in history, and arguably a top ten Russian composer.)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054802&forum_id=2#36639794) |
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