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that devry poster is 120 but he's right about biglaw pay
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Date: December 18th, 2018 12:42 AM Author: Exhilarant school compared to in house pay. i'm considering an in house offer for $180k. if i took that, i'll make about $1M less over the next 4 years vs staying as a biglaw associate (years 5-8). seems insane to take the in house job i think. that $1M will get me FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425394) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 12:51 AM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma Assuming you're a 5th year right now:
If you stick it out for another 2 years, you will make $800K over 2 years, compared to $360K, at a gain of $440K.
If you stick it out for another 3 years, you will make $1.23 million over 3 years, compared to $540K inhouse, at a gain of $690k.
If you stick it out for another 4 years, you will make $1.66 million over 4 years, compared to $720K inhouse, at a gain of $940K.
Absolutely insane to take that inhouse job given the unprecedented job security biglaw has these days. In-house will always be available.
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:02 AM Author: Exhilarant school Yeah I hear you. That’s assuming pay stays flat at the in house job (which it might I guess). But throw in a few signing bonuses if I lateral a couple times and I’m easily ahead by over a million.
Also your biglaw numbers aren’t counting the summer bonuses that came around this year either right? |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:05 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead this is a really weird flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425488) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:10 AM Author: Exhilarant school ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425510) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:11 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead when do you take the LSAT? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425516) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:19 AM Author: Exhilarant school Lsat is weird flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425536) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:23 AM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma My numbers aren't counting summer/special bonuses, since that varies too much by firm.
Signing bonuses/raises at inhouse ljl. |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:04 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead "unprecedented job security biglaw has these days"
explain this weird flame. also, taxes...? |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:25 AM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma Very hard to get fired these days as long as you're billing hours. Bigfirms are hurting for mid/senior level associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425552) |
Date: December 18th, 2018 1:04 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead yeah if you get a bonus every single year, which means u won't have a life.
also, after taxes it's more like 500k. |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:05 AM Author: Exhilarant school Fair point. Also assumes bonuses don’t fall (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425487) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:05 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead the bonuses are unlikely to fall, but you are unlikely to get them every year. very few people do. the few that do are billing way over 2000 and are on partner track. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425491) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:06 AM Author: Exhilarant school What kinda ttt firm are you at that doesn’t pay bonuses (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425493) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:07 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead every big law firm pays bonuses, but very few associates make their hours every single year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425496) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:08 AM Author: Azure ceo Lol what kind of ttt firm requires that you “make hours” for a bonus (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425502) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:09 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead 90% of the V100. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425506) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:11 AM Author: Azure ceo (Xo 2018) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425517) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:10 AM Author: Exhilarant school Sounds like this fella just accepted an in house job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425509) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:09 AM Author: Exhilarant school Literally have never heard of this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425504) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:09 AM Author: Orange crawly school cafeteria circlehead (not an actual attorney) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425508) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:10 AM Author: Exhilarant school Lawyers don’t post here anymore friend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425513) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: beady-eyed sickened macaca chapel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425539) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:28 AM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma LJL are you talking about Dechert or DLA Piper? And don't they prorate your bonus if you're beneat target hours?
Let's assume OP is at least mentally functional lulz.
Not sure how a biglaw attorney can't make 1900 or 2000 whatever hours requirement there may be at the lower ranked "market" firms. |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: Amethyst contagious partner faggotry Or a Kirkland and Ellis, Latham, Gibson, skadden just in the v10 with minimums. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427805) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:39 PM Author: Exhilarant school Anyone would make those minimums easily though. Sounds like this pumo is at some TTt firm that doesn’t have enough work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37428017) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 11:13 PM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma Why don't you actually list the hours requirement instead of making ridiculous implications that you know are completely misleading.
Oh my an 1800 hours requirement at Skadden, so impossible to achieve!
This "oh but a lot of associates don't get bonus b/c of hours!" argument only applies to bottom-feeder "market" firms with ridiculous 2100/2200 hours requirements that do not prorate if you fell 100 short. This is literally the "worst-case" scenario in biglaw and ljl using the literal "worst-case" scenario in your argument. It'd be like me arguing that "oh but your bonus will be over $1 million if you make equity partner and it's much more likely you can make equity partner than GC!!"
If you actually worked at a place like Skadden, you would know that the "hours requirement" is not actually a requirement and is rather intended to keep literal deadweight and people on their way out/being frozen out from collecting bonuses to the detriment of their colleagues. This is actually a popular policy at market firms b/c nobody wants to see the loser incompetent guy getting shitcanned walk out with $$. |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: Exhilarant school Very generous assumption (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427834) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:35 AM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma This guy sounds like some sore loser who went inhouse from Reed Smith after 3rd year and is running shady math to make himself feel better.
First, the difference over 4 years after tax is over $600,000. Nice little rounding error.
Second, I didn't include special/summer bonuses.
You take the worst possible scenario for biglaw and the best possible scenario for inhouse. If you work at a peer market paying firm, there are no hours requirements. You get the bonus lockstep same as everyone else. You could bill 1700 hours at Davis Polk and get market bonus. You would also likely get substantial special/summer bonuses at these firms.
Let's not mention how some inhouse jobs, especially in SV, require insane hours for the pay with far worse benefits (lack of subsidied meals, expenses, flying economy, etc).
But yes, I concede that inhouse may be better than working at Dentons. |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 8:34 AM Author: Azure ceo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37426121) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:43 PM Author: Exhilarant school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427706) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:12 AM Author: Violent Lay National Security Agency try buying some ethereum sellcuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425519) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:13 AM Author: Exhilarant school I’m down a lot on eth. Still holding (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425523) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 1:16 AM Author: Violent Lay National Security Agency if you're holding right now you won't need "biglaw pay" in four years to be "financially independent" (which is a cucked goal tbh no offense) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37425528) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: Indigo Vibrant Marketing Idea Stfu (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427829) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:08 PM Author: Amethyst contagious partner faggotry OP’s problem is having a shitty in house option. Hold out for at least $300k in house. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427817) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:12 PM Author: Exhilarant school Will do thank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427831) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 2:34 PM Author: motley stage multi-billionaire Are you guys honestly saying it’s abnormal to bill 2250-2400 year in year out? I’ve been wondering how people hold on for more than three years unless they’re married to a mortgage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37427990) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 11:20 PM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma 1700-2300 is probably the range for biglaw associates, and the average is probably close to 2000.
2000 isn't bad at all (averages a bit over 45 hours/week billed if you factor in holidays/vacation) for the money you're making.
The truly bad part about biglaw is a combination of the stress/demands, unpredictability (you can do 10-6 5 days in a row followed by 2 all-nighters) and sense of doom.
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Date: December 18th, 2018 11:21 PM Author: Azure ceo Also not bad if you’re padding properly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37430914) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 11:23 PM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma Unless you're filling in timesheets once every month yeah you're probably padding a bit/rounding up.
People make it sound like 2,000 is awful but it's not. Anything above 2,200 starts getting painful, and I'm sure we've all had our spike years, but for the vast majority of us we're not averaging over 2,200 over a 10 year career.
In fact if you're a senior associate consistently billing over 2,400 hours I think clients and/or partners would come have a talk with you about working more efficiently. |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 11:42 PM Author: Azure ceo For someone whos padding how many actual hours worked is 45 hours a week? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158034&forum_id=2#37431009) |
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Date: December 18th, 2018 11:52 PM Author: lascivious chest-beating piazza friendly grandma Probably around 55?
It really depends on where those 45 hours came from. If it's 45 hours derived from 10 different matters, you're going to be in pain and it could be closer to 60-70 hours in the office.
If it's 45 hours derived from a few cases that are non-stop moving, you could do it in 50 hours. |