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Biglaw midlevel don't know what i'm doing
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:41 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube reading that devry thread has me lolling. i'm a corporate 5th year at v10 and can see getting shown the door in a year or less. people are starting to really expect me to understand more shit but i'm finding myself lacking the stamina and/or intelligence to really understand it that well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644187) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:46 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio if you're not gunning for partner, why would you stay much longer anyway? seems like a dead end (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644238) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:48 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube too lazy to look for other stuff. want to save some more money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644261) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 1:03 AM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio a 5th year corp associate should be able to find something pretty easily. at least in mfh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645360) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:03 PM Author: Electric pistol brunch corporate is flame anyways, it's not real law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644416) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:19 PM Author: bipolar fortuitous meteor garrison how dare you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644561) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:16 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Repetition brother, it's realy not hard.
After reading your 10th law firm memo/PLI guide on a particular subtopic, you will develop a working knowledge. These things are like 10 pages long and won't take up much of your time.
Then, it's just a matter of showing what you know. Find partners or senior associates and go and shoot the shit about what you read.
"Hey, have you seen this new trend in dual-track M&A in the pharma industry? It seems that deal uncertainty is driving this but would appreciate your thoughts."
Or "hey I reading this merger agreement and saw this really interesting iteration of the idenmnity tipping basket. Maybe something to think about on our next deal."
Reading this shit literally takes at most 1 hour a day. You did far more in law school. No biggie. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:37 PM Author: Pearly marvelous locus goal in life What would be an iteration of a tipping basket?
If some faggot midlevel came to me wanting to talk about that I'd never staff him again. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:40 PM Author: Passionate balding karate You can do a lot with the basket language, like multiple conditions for what gets added, when if ever to deduct or offset stuff that went into the basket, and conditional tipping depending on claims.
Or you could do a Reed Smith plain vanilla basket, sure. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:44 PM Author: Pearly marvelous locus goal in life Sounds TTT. Vault range? On big deals nobody gives a fuck about that stuff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644788) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:45 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Was V5, now V30. Indemnity provisions are the biggest pain in the butt in an acquisition document. You can tweek the language to no end. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644802) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:51 PM Author: Pearly marvelous locus goal in life Maybe on some small time 200 million dollar deal where small time money matters. Indemnities just arent that complicated for the most part. Fundamental quasi fundamental basket cap maybe a mini basket and some lawyers bitching over who controls litigation and maybe whining over types of damages.
Not that hard unless you're a try hard super study type who thinks regurgitating practical law articles to bored partners will save him from the axe. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:55 PM Author: Passionate balding karate It's just an example that I assume most people are familiar with.
There are obviously hundreds of topics for him to study. |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 5:44 PM Author: Up-to-no-good Orchestra Pit Fanboi Indemnity provisions may be the most heavily negotiated point in a MIPA. No idea what this fool is talking about.
That said, I do get annoyed when junior associates waste my time at the office, especially when I am trying to see my kid before she goes to bed. This probably makes me a bad mentor. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:47 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644810) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:52 PM Author: Pearly marvelous locus goal in life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644864) |
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Date: January 26th, 2019 2:10 AM Author: Startled Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37665816) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:41 PM Author: Histrionic black feces piazza God this sounds awful. So glad I don’t do Corp work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644754) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 9:36 PM Author: Hyperactive Bright Address Background Story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37650781) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 7:02 PM Author: submissive maize dragon Or "hey I reading this merger agreement and saw this really interesting iteration of the idenmnity tipping basket. Maybe something to think about on our next deal."
Or "hey I reading this merger agreement and saw this really interesting iteration of the idenmnity tipping basket. Maybe something to think about on our next deal."
Or "hey I reading this merger agreement and saw this really interesting iteration of the idenmnity tipping basket. Maybe something to think about on our next deal." |
Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:44 PM Author: Irradiated Location Pozpig Really need you to anticipate these things. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644219) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:45 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube *shudders (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644226) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:46 PM Author: Soul-stirring pea-brained sound barrier what have you been doing for the past few years, nonstop due diligence? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644231) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:46 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth This is called Impostor Syndrome; you probably know more than you think you do and are more valuable than you're giving yourself credit for. Go get 'em. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644239) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:52 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube ty for the kind words but i really don't think this is the case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644298) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:54 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth Of course you don't because you're suffering from Impostor Syndrome. But it's true. You've thrived and succeeded for five years. You're doing it, even if you don't feel like you're doing it. Those aren't kind words: they're the truth. Good job bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644312) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:55 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube i've been doing well up to this point but now people are expecting me to take the next leap and i can't see myself doing it. it's going to take a lot of effort that i can't bring myself to put in. maybe i'm burned out idk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644323) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:56 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth Let me ask you this: have you been in positions earlier in your career where you've been expected to "make a leap" / step up your abilities and skills? You can't have been doing the exact same thing for the last five years .... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644334) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:58 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube yeah but it's always been easy. now i need to get into the substance more and it's a much bigger intellectual challenge. running processes as a junior/midlevel has been a cakewalk for me. actually understanding and negotiating these documents though? LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644354) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:00 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth I don't know man. Seems to me you've been able to step up in the past, evolve and better yourself in that environment. I don't know why you're so set on self-doubting that you can't step up and do it again. Seems like you've got a proven track record already. Why not embrace that and embrace the mentality of success. Cause it's waiting there for you. Actually, news flash: you're living it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644375) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:01 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio what kind of tranny are you? substance isn't very hard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644381) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:02 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube finance (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644404) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:04 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth u got a mentor? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644417) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:07 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube nope. in a pretty ruthless place where no one cares about developing anyone. most people just expect you to pick up on things without explaining anything to you and without keeping you in the loop. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644452) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:08 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth Well that's bad. That part I can't see a silver lining to from your position as a relatively young employee. But I still stand by my other point that you're five years in -- you've made it and, even if just instinctively, you know how to navigate the mess. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644463) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:18 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Of course they're not going to explain shit to you. They expect you to study and learn this shit by reading guides and shit and then go to them with questions. They're not there to serve as Wikipedia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644548) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:18 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio you've been there 5 years and don't have anyone to talk to? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644551) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:19 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth I was kinda shocked by that too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644553) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:20 PM Author: Clear flickering headpube lots of people have left over the years, including the handful of partners i clicked with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644568) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:21 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth Isn't that kinda a good thing? Doesn't that mean you're more likely to make partner anyway? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644574) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:04 PM Author: Electric pistol brunch cr, corporate is a joke. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644422) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:06 PM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad Just fuck them up, nobody is even going to look at them again unless there is a lawsuit, which probably would have happened even if someone who knew what they were doing drafted them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644443) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 1:09 AM Author: jade hall Cr. And fixing past fuckups is a great biz generator. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645397) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 10:59 PM Author: lascivious yellow volcanic crater What don't you know? Can you give an example?
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:00 PM Author: Topaz Dilemma bn? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644372) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:01 PM Author: disturbing puppy Protip: nobody knows wtf they are doing. It's all posturing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644388) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:03 PM Author: Milky Unhinged Scourge Upon The Earth I don't think this is true. I think it's more people forget how much they know. And also how much they benefit from experience as they grow in their career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644412) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:04 PM Author: Self-absorbed Kitchen Toaster (Guy who gets it) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644423) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:08 PM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad I'm not so sure about this. I am a litigator and I know exactly what I'm doing, and it's very clear to me when someone else doesn't know. But it may be totally different for transactional. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644459) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:22 PM Author: Cordovan Knife Probably different for trannies (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644580) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:31 PM Author: Ivory Giraffe Point It is more obvious in lit because of the strategic nature of adversary proceedings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644653) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:08 PM Author: Excitant fear-inspiring shrine kitty TCR and more importantly it nothing you can’t just look up in 20 seconds. You just have to know how to tell the other guy I’ll get back to you in twenty minutes on this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644462) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:15 PM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad hint: if it's opposing counsel you're talking to, "let me circle back with the client on that one" is socially acceptable code for "i don't know what the fuck i'm doing" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644519) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:20 PM Author: supple insane senate It's a perfectly acceptable answer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644564) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:30 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Yeah if you're at Reed Smith.
Top tier clients HATE it when their lawyers circle back to them on every single legal point. They want the firms to work out a proposal and simply send to them for sign-off, not "hey what do you think about this?" |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:32 PM Author: supple insane senate That's not the way you use I'll circle back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644662) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:37 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Bad lawyers probably do some shit like, "Here are Reed Smith's proposed changes - please let us have your comments."
Average lawyers probably do some shit like, "Reed Smith's proposed changes are unacceptable because of Y, please confirm how strongly you feel."
Great lawyers negotiate that shit away with Reed Smith and show the client a final product for their sign-off "Here are the negotiated terms with Reed Smith, which we think is a great deal for you. Unless you have any objections, we will proceed with this version." |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:40 PM Author: supple insane senate For some, great lawyering, for others, borderline negligence. Any sophisticated in house legal is gonna flip if you leave them entirely out of the loop on negotiations and what you're giving up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644751) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:45 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Of course the client is always CC'ed on shit and attending most conference calls.
The difference is whether you force the inhouse to act as an active participant in discussions and force them comment on legal wording, or whether they can just passively observe and nod their head and realize how good of a lawyer you are.
We keep saying we are professional service industry. Is there any other service industry where the service provider expects their client to be actively managing and getting involved in the service provider's execution of their job?
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:54 PM Author: Pearly marvelous locus goal in life Yes. Basically all. You sound like you've never even been the most senior associate on a deal ffs. You think they arent working hand in hand every step of the way with financial diligence team on QOE and guiding their work for example? Or with I bankers on presentations?
Come on bro.
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:03 AM Author: Passionate balding karate I've been running small M&A deals since I was a 3rd year and was basically on my own starting 7th year.
On every major M&A deal I've worked on, the client was rarely actively participating, if at all in the documentation. I can't remember the last time I heard a client say anything on a conference call with the other side, although we would have calls with them before or after to run through an issues list where they would ask questions. We copied them on all correspondence to the working group and obviously sent them issues lists and shit, but we never created a situation where the client would have to comment on specific wording. FIs, when involved, would be quite active on commenting, but that's another story.
The only times where the client would be actively involved is in diligence (both legal and financial) and getting ready for PMI. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:45 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644801) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:32 PM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad you don't actually have to call the client (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644666) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:38 PM Author: Passionate balding karate I know. I'm talking about the generic issues list with "please confirm" after every line that Reed Smith level firms would do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644719) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:31 PM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad i know, that's why i said it's socially acceptable code. that's the easiest out to bail on an issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644654) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:19 PM Author: Passionate balding karate LJL. I remember being on a call with Blackstone and both sides gave some crappy answer like "we think it's this but let us circle back after confirming."
AGC at Blackstone gets pissy and says, "And that's the sound of two law firms who don't know what they're doing."
I almost laughed but the partners were pissed obviously. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:22 PM Author: Cordovan Knife What a dick (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644583) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:27 PM Author: judgmental heaven twinkling uncleanness Lol that’s actually pretty funny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644613) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:19 PM Author: supple insane senate This is exactly true. Speak with gravitas. This is 90% of the battle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644554) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:27 PM Author: Passionate balding karate Yes, do posture you're way out when client asks you very specific questions about substance that they expect you to know.
"Hey how do you think the Buyer would react if we propose a 5% deductible basket?"
You: "They would probably need to think about it and check with their client" LJL at this Reed Smith answer
DMC: "That would probably be a non-starter because that would have a significant impact on their ability to recover for any losses and it essentially serves as a waiver of losses up to the basket amount. This is highly off-market but given we are in a strong position we can try, and if they push back, as we anticipate they will, we can negotiate down the basket in exchange." |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:30 PM Author: supple insane senate Your answer is essentially 'Idk who knows till you try', not distinguishable from posturing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644638) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:31 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio his answer - "i dunno but this is the definition of a deductible" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644657) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:33 PM Author: Passionate balding karate No, my answer is "X is likely to happen because of Y, we will proceed with the plan and if A happens, we will propose B."
The key is, I propose actual plans and solutions based on my expertise, and am setting clear expectations and allowing the client to anticipate the result before making their next decision. The generic "let me check" is just an obvious placeholder to buy time to hide your ignorance.
If you can't tell the difference then sorry, you must be at Reed Smith. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:43 PM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio if you think that providing a definition of deductible and a generic reference to what is market displays some sort of expertise or provides value anywhere near commensurate with billing rates you're kidding yourself or trolling. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644778) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:44 PM Author: supple insane senate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644784) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:48 PM Author: Unholy frum trust fund (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644822) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:49 PM Author: Passionate balding karate It was just an easy example off the top of my head and given there are like 5 biglawyers left on XOXO, not all of whom do M&A, I threw a softball for the audience.
A more realistic scenario is that Reed Smith would send a markup of the basket provision, among many other revisions, and the client would ask for our thoughts, and we would have to be able to identify what the changes mean for the client's risk based on our deep understanding of the client's business and potential liabilities, propose alternative solutions and recommend the best way forward.
The harder shit obviously involves stuff like whether to use an LLC or Inc. as an SPC for an offshore minority equity investment or really technical shit like structuring equity-financed deals via share buybacks and the list goes on. These discussions are all done real-time and you have zero opportunity to say "let me check with my tax guys" or "let me get back to you." They expect you to have done this a million times and have all the answers. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:53 PM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad In other words you throw out some subjective BS that you'll never get called on because nobody knows what "market" truly is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644875) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:07 AM Author: Passionate balding karate No. People do call each other out on "market" all the time. There are literal surveys published by reputable sources that provide statistics on this shit as well.
Every top tier law firm M&A shop I've heard of maintains their own database of terms divided by industry and deal type so you are always updated on what exactly are the trends and market practice.
Clients always ask you for probability or liklihood, and it's much more convincing if you can say, "in 88% of these types of transactions in this industry, the Buyer did not get a special indemnity for contingent litigation." |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:56 PM Author: Unholy frum trust fund Don't be an idiot. "Going to have to run all this by Tax" is the best cop out in the book, because it's true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644900) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:05 AM Author: Passionate balding karate No. Clients expect you to already have checked with your tax team and show up to meetings ready to rock.
"Bbbut we didn't know this particular issue would arise!"
Clients expect you to have done similar deals hundreds of times so you can anticipate all tax issues and have answers ready for them when the issue arises. |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:07 AM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio actually its quite acceptable to throw things to the tax guys. this is some subtle flame you're running. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644983) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:09 AM Author: supple insane senate He's gotta be flame. His take on things is a completely inaccurate picture of how biglaw works (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645002) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:12 AM Author: Passionate balding karate LJL maybe that's how biglaw at Dechert works.
When client requests a meeting to go over structuring issues, the first thing you do is setup a meeting with your tax guys and go over the structuring issues that are likely to arise and you go into the meeting with the answers prepared. The tax guys will be at that client meeting. Answers will be provided at that meeting.
Client meetings are not brainstorming sessions. They aren't paying you to brainstorm ideas and get back to them. |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:13 AM Author: supple insane senate You're giving one example on one particular type of deal. There are a million times on deals where checking with tax is the necessary and prudent thing to do and they can't all be preempted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645048) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:18 AM Author: Passionate balding karate Obviously issues come up, and the client will request a call or a meeting to discuss the issue. The key is, you have been given notice of the issue and have time to prepare. And so my point is that before you go to the meeting, you'd better have a solid grasp of the solution.
Unless you're envisioning situations where issues come up spontaneously during negotiations between lawyers. In that case, say a tax issue comes up during discussions about making a settlement payment, then what SHOULD happen is that after the call you schedule a meeting with the client to discuss, and before that meeting you come up with the answer with your tax colleagues so you are never in a position to tell the client "we'll get back to you."
If a spontaneous tax issue comes up while you're discussing say an issues list with the client, then obviously you failed to anticipate the issue, which stems from either poor preparation or lack of experience. |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:28 AM Author: Passionate balding karate Just so you know how seriously the V5 takes this level of anticipating client issues and having answers ready, I was once at a beauty contest for a huge M&A deal and saw the client flipping through the presentation material from the previous firm that had presented.
It was a pages long table of likely issues for that particular industry and deal type (it was public US- private US tech and part cash part equity valued at several billion), with proposed solutions. Before they even got engaged on the deal, the firm had managed to anticipate and provide solutions to dozens of potential issues. Of course they got hired and I heard they earned around $5 million on that deal which sucked for us.
Our proposal was like "we have done X number of deals like this and have worked with you in the past on Y number of deals so we know your business" whereas the winning firm was more like "we already know what issues you're going to face and have already come up with the solutions - let's get started." Whereas the client asked us a lot of questions, I heard they were mostly silent during the winning firm's presentation and just sat there listening and nodding their heads as the rainmaker went through the issues list. Damn son that shit was lit. |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:44 AM Author: Stimulating insecure chapel police squad *bills $5 million for issues that have already been worked out and anticipated before the engagement letter is signed* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645239) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:50 AM Author: rebellious dull ticket booth digit ratio this is why DMC gets paid the big bucks. to resolve issues before negotiations get started (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645273) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 12:52 AM Author: Passionate balding karate Spotting the issues and proposing solutions =/= implementing the solution. The documentation was really complicated actually, regulatory filings, proxy solicitation, corporate restructuring, a share buyback, financing element, etc.
Sort of like how proposing a new engine design to resolve emissions issues costs nothing compared to actually making the engine, testing it and rolling it out. |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:33 PM Author: supple insane senate lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644676) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:32 PM Author: Passionate balding karate No.
It's like going to the doctor with symptoms. Doctor A says, "let me run some tests and get back to you." Doctor B says, "it looks like you may have the flu, let me run some tests but in the meantime take this medicine just in case." |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 9:33 PM Author: Spectacular citrine bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37650764) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:32 PM Author: Comical Insanely Creepy Theater Turdskin Thath not market!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644669) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:32 PM Author: Cordovan Knife The lawyerly response right here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644671) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:18 PM Author: tripping impressive becky elastic band i think I'm opposite you on deal rn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644545) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 11:32 PM Author: zombie-like step-uncle's house macaca lol, shots fired (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37644661) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 5:24 PM Author: Spectacular citrine bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37649394) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 1:56 AM Author: racy orange office son of senegal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37645547) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 9:40 AM Author: burgundy mind-boggling center kitty cat OP: I was in pretty much the same place as you a few years ago: midlevel, borderline senior associate in finance and felt like I didn’t know anything. I think one of my biggest problems was that I didn’t give a shit about the deals I worked on because debt finance is objectively terrible and probably epitomizes everything that sucks about biglaw. The only time I could bring myself to care was when I had to handle deals on my own because then everything was on me. Otherwise I’d just go through the motions knowing that there was like a 2% chance I’d still be at the firm if there was ever a default and like .00001% chance that even if there was that something I did would have any real impact on the situation. But in those rare circumstances that a deal did need up falling completely into my hands, I was often surprised at how much I knew, it just took a bit of an adrenaline kick to make it come into focus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37646181) |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 9:32 PM Author: Spectacular citrine bawdyhouse Would you say you have a .00030 enjoyment of the law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37650758) |
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Date: January 26th, 2019 2:07 AM Author: brass beady-eyed set double fault nice. i'm the same way. a few weeks ago the partner was like "hey favor house i need you to lead the call on sunday" and i was shocked by how quickly i kicked into gear.
are you still in biglaw? |
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Date: January 23rd, 2019 9:40 PM Author: Hyperactive Bright Address Background Story holy fuck you guys went to law school to do this shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4184354&forum_id=2#37650808) |