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Daily Princetonian- Li alleges bias against Asians

Jian Li is serious and so is the US Dept. of Education, Offi...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=524845&mc=1&...
Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan
  11/13/06
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB116321461412620634-lMy...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Please go back to the college board. We have enough crappy ...
Racy dilemma telephone
  11/13/06
you do the same too please
Diverse weed whacker
  11/13/06
...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
This has become a bigger LEGAL ISSUE now re: anti-Asian de f...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
I saw it the first time.
Racy dilemma telephone
  11/13/06
Keyboard was stuck. Will edit.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
He's better than the stupid Azn guy schtick on this side of ...
Exhilarant black woman
  11/15/06
Private schools should, if they choose, have the right to gi...
Dashing plum hominid
  11/13/06
The private Ivies are being affected, and will be in the fut...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Whether or not they will end up being affected, I maintain i...
Dashing plum hominid
  11/13/06
Jian Li's case is not all about test scores and his GPA. It ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
I was hoping this was about Ici Li
electric chrome twinkling uncleanness temple
  11/13/06
Asians sure do whine a lot.
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Unlike you, Petro, they don't know what it's like to wake up...
Red Deer Antler
  11/13/06
That shit is called 'survival,' b.
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Whatever. You probably played up the poverty card when you a...
chocolate tripping toilet seat
  11/13/06
It wasn't just a card. I actually was really fucking poor.
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Spics sure do whine a lot.
chocolate tripping toilet seat
  11/13/06
Hondurians do.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
What's funny is, to the extent that I "took" anyon...
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
You did not read the crux of Juan Li's complaint in the WSJ ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Sure I did. -He came from some random wealthy suburb in N...
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
The whites Princeton accepted did exactly the same, and more...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Maybe whitey was just "more of a guy."
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
"More of a guy" than a Hondurian who received raci...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
LOL. Sounds like you're a "cookie cutter spic."
sexy cuckoldry
  11/13/06
Actually, it seemed like a lot of the spics at my college we...
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
"It should be based on income more than anything else.&...
sexy cuckoldry
  11/13/06
previous complaints were filed by white students, not Asians
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Asians don't get admitted to top schools because they are bo...
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Princeton is put on notice, as well as the rest of the Ivies...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Do you honestly think that a bunch of white country-club jud...
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
They will. You could bet on it. There were other law suit...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Be real, son.
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Son, I can name at least one of the most important cases ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
I am still waiting for your supposed legal knowledge of US S...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Be careful, we traced the call and it came from Your house!
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
Korematsu, son. It's still good precedent. Never forget.
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Not what I had in mind. You are way off base regarding the t...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Quarantine case?
Mustard Menage
  11/13/06
No
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
United States vs. Wong Kim Ark; 1898
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
there was one in the 1930s that held that chinese ppl were c...
Hideous brethren potus
  11/14/06
In 1927, in Gong Lum vs. Rice, the Supreme Court ruled that...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/22/06
Here's the reality, son.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
this is a hugely interesting question i think. i think the ...
Blue fanboi party of the first part
  11/13/06
asians are being admitted to ivies in numbers far exceeding ...
Hideous brethren potus
  11/14/06
princeton can fill it's entire class with wasps named presto...
Violet Autistic Spot
  11/13/06
HA HA, way to out yourself as a first year law student. Why...
Heady Center Hunting Ground
  11/13/06
is there a private university as a state actor precedent? ...
Blue fanboi party of the first part
  11/13/06
try again. private universities have wide latitude in field...
Violet Autistic Spot
  11/13/06
They have wide latitude but not to the point of racial discr...
Heady Center Hunting Ground
  11/13/06
This is true.
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
good luck proving discriminatory intent.
Violet Autistic Spot
  11/13/06
Princeton will need good luck justifying their habits withou...
Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker
  11/13/06
Mr. Li, who emigrated to the U.S. from China as a 4-year-old...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Please read up on an obscure statute called the 1964 Civil R...
haunting depressive casino
  11/13/06
Jian Li's complaint is based precisely on the wording of the...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
Madame Cunt, is that you?!!?!?
Cerebral Lake Half-breed
  11/13/06
no its not her
opaque stirring parlor
  11/14/06
The dood got into Yale, he needs to GOI.
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
But it does seem wrong that Asians have to do so much better...
Heady Center Hunting Ground
  11/13/06
They can always go back to China/Korea/Japan if they don't l...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
They can "go back to China..."???!!! Way to go Na...
Heady Center Hunting Ground
  11/13/06
I'm hispanic dood, and he was born in China if you read the ...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
Go back to Mexico
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
My family has been in this country since the 1700's dood
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
Go back to 1700s Mexico.
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
Is it his fault that his parents worked hard so that they co...
Heady Center Hunting Ground
  11/13/06
I didn't say he was born in the US. Go back and re-read my ...
Heady Center Hunting Ground
  11/13/06
His point is racist as well.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
I was flaming but east asians are still the most racist peop...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
You are the racist.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
How about going back to Hondurus? I would not, if I were ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
cool.
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
The future looks good for them. Expanding trade links with ...
carnelian organic girlfriend stag film
  11/13/06
Exactly.
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
Then Petro, you should go back to Hondurus or Reppin Santa A...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
Maybe they do well because the deck is stacked against them....
Fragrant National Tattoo
  11/13/06
You are correct.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
"The dood got into Yale, he needs to GOI." Th...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
"The complaint is AGAINST Princeton, not Yale." O...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
This is akin to stating an African American should not be ab...
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
You will make a good lawyer and you are exhibiting this on t...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
So he should have gotten into every school he applied? Any ...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
Jian Li was denied access to Princeton based on his ONE spec...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Do you know for sure he was denied because he was asian? Ma...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
That's for the Office for Civil Rights, US Dept of Education...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
yea, seems like half of the asian kids from his school who a...
Sticky Contagious Gaming Laptop
  11/13/06
And because of the de facto Asian quota, limiting and cappin...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
His high school classmates are saying he was denied because ...
Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan
  11/13/06
Well, that's easy for them to say, even if his classmates di...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
No, not necessarily. If the case moves, it will be up to him...
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
"I'm merely stating that you can't argue against a disc...
Laughsome filthpig
  11/13/06
Okay, he's a whiney baby, but that doesn't mean he doesn't h...
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
Exactly, but he is not "whiney". He is doing this ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
how fucking many livingston hs grads does princeton need to ...
Hideous brethren potus
  11/14/06
It didn't sound like he personally has any interest at all i...
Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker
  11/13/06
You will also make a good lawyer, as exemplified by your pos...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
I don't think you can say he's whiny just based on the info ...
Ultramarine Location International Law Enforcement Agency
  11/13/06
You are correct.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Lots of kids make a clean sweep. The key is to only apply t...
Fragrant National Tattoo
  11/13/06
"Li, who has a perfect 2400 SAT score and near-perfect ...
curious codepig persian
  11/13/06
Rutgers is only #6 in the BCS ratings, but ABOVE Yale, which...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Btw, wasn't Jian Li the name of Chow Yun Fat's character in ...
Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker
  11/13/06
While we're (I'm) on the topic of that film: WGWAG
Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker
  11/13/06
Well, Jian Li is Chinese and many Chinese have the same name...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
I'm in agreement with petro on the cookie-cutter Asians.
Pearly indian lodge
  11/13/06
Well, your racist generalization, as are Petro's and Princet...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Please, most of the Ivy admits of whatever race is boring as...
yellow step-uncle's house
  11/13/06
There are no racial and ethnic quotas in Community Colleges,...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
"Please, most of the Ivy admits of whatever race is bor...
sexy cuckoldry
  11/13/06
1. he's just bitter he couldn't get into the fourth best ivy...
Aggressive church building
  11/13/06
he mostly posts his worthless shit on the college board but ...
Trip Idea He Suggested Wrinkle
  11/13/06
He brings up important issues and I don't necessarily disagr...
sexy cuckoldry
  11/13/06
Serious- discrimination against Asians under increased scrutiny
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
The problem is, the Asians tend to off themselves. And th...
irradiated dopamine
  11/13/06
Are you really serious with this post? If that's your rea...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Umless...the anonymous poster is not, in fact, the brains be...
chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop
  11/13/06
What brains?
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/13/06
Jian Li's complaint is based precisely on the wording of the...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/11/14/princeton N...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
"more of a guy" -- seems like a good criterion on ...
vivacious lay
  11/14/06
The OCR will ask Princeton to release all the applicants' in...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
what if princeton refuses to comply? what if written evaluat...
vivacious lay
  11/14/06
"i assume the release of third parties' materials viola...
Brilliant cowardly house
  11/14/06
is there some distinction drawn between effect/intent?
vivacious lay
  11/14/06
duh
Hideous brethren potus
  11/14/06
yeah but i imagine that only kicks in once all the evidence ...
Brilliant cowardly house
  11/14/06
only white ppl live here
Hideous brethren potus
  11/14/06
maybe that would work for the 7-11, but probably not for pri...
Brilliant cowardly house
  11/15/06
Carla Martin said
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Nothing will come of this case. Clearly it is not in the ...
arousing juggernaut
  11/14/06
Jews are more highly represented at these schools.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
Did you really just use "singularities" that way? ...
Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker
  11/14/06
TITCR
grizzly floppy boltzmann
  11/15/06
Jian Li states his purpose for the complaint
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
pretty obvious princeton had already accepted too many new j...
Hideous brethren potus
  11/14/06
Li and his family moved to the United States when he was 4 y...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/14/06
Li is an articulate young man who speaks perfect English, wi...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Jian Li can make a prima facie case against Princeton
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
In addition, consider Ho v. San Francisco Unified School Dis...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Princeton should just come out and say, "We rejected hi...
Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan
  11/15/06
That's exactly what Princeton had said. Let Princeton sa...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Geez whiz, the kid got rejected at Penn, which is probabl...
slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead
  11/15/06
Too bad the was not Mexican, Latino, or Black with the same ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Whoop de whoop. I'm a white kid who wasn't wined and dined b...
slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead
  11/15/06
Poor whites don't get whined and dined. Too bad he was no...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Poor-whites who are non-Jews also get screwed along with Asi...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
P already has too many asians. if they did away with anti-as...
grizzly floppy boltzmann
  11/15/06
Speak to the students at UC Berkeley or the Jews, the most o...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
given the increasingly large disparity in test scores, getti...
grizzly floppy boltzmann
  11/15/06
Speak to the Jews who were there, before the anti-Jewish quo...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Date: November 15th, 2006 10:18 AM Author: TallyHo Geez ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
These "too bad you're not X" arguments are ridicul...
Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan
  11/15/06
Shrugs. Anonymous preppies from mediocre private schools ...
slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead
  11/15/06
I am not talking about Bill First's children or even his kin...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Princeton values these sports just as much as classical musi...
slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead
  11/15/06
I am talking about rich affluent whites, which include white...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
This is the guy, btw: http://www.yaledailynews.com/ViewPhoto...
Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan
  11/15/06
http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=343...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Penn troll.
insane range
  11/15/06
bump this one more time with another fucking article and i s...
Charcoal Native Candlestick Maker
  11/15/06
...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/15/06
Date: November 15th, 2006 3:30 PM Author: akaRonM...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/16/06
lol.
multi-colored hall
  11/16/06
God bless America. Land that I love. HTFH and if doesn't ...
Charcoal Native Candlestick Maker
  11/16/06
Bump please.
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/16/06
http://www.thecrimson.com/printerfriendly.aspx?ref=515779 ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/16/06
Have you read the Espenshade study from Princeton U’s Dept. ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/18/06
more asians should bring suit. obviously Espenshade study (h...
Citrine Corn Cake
  11/22/06
Link- actual numbers on black and latino SAT scoring in 2005...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/22/06
Re: Asians affected by race preferences from research paper ...
Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
  11/22/06


Poast new message in this thread





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:00 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Jian Li is serious and so is the US Dept. of Education, Office for Civil Rights.

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/11/13/news/16544.shtml

ADMISSIONS

Rejected applicant alleges bias against Asians

By Kate Carroll

Princetonian Staff Writer

Yale freshman Jian Li has filed a federal civil rights complaint against Princeton for rejecting his application for admission, claiming the University discriminated against him because he is Asian.

The complaint, which was filed with the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights on Oct. 25, alleges that the University's admissions procedures are biased because they advantage other minority groups, namely African-Americans and Hispanics, legacy applicants and athletes at the expense of Asian-American applicants.

"We've been notified of the complaint and asked to provide information to the Office of Civil Rights, and the University will provide the Office of Civil Rights with the information that it has requested," University spokeswoman Cass Cliatt '96 said yesterday. "But I will say that we do not believe that the case has merit."

The case, first reported this weekend by The Wall Street Journal, injects new life into a longstanding debate surrounding affirmative action and whether race can or should be a factor in college admissions. Li's minority status adds a new twist to the story, however, since previous complaints about universities' racial preference policies have been filed by white students alleging bias.

Li cites a recent study conducted by two Princeton professors as evidence for his case. The study, published in June 2005, concluded that removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, but that Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in admitted classes that are currently taken by African-American or Hispanic students.

Current legal precedent on the question of racial preference grew out of two lawsuits filed in 2003 against the University of Michigan. In those cases, the Supreme Court ruled that colleges could use racial preferences benefiting underrepresented groups like African-Americans and Hispanics, but that quotas, points and other "mechanistic" policies are unconstitutional.

In Li's case, however, "you have a minority candidate, but a minority candidate from a category that is not regarded by the [court] as an underrepresented category," University politics professor and noted constitutional scholar Robert George said. "This is a minority candidate who is saying, 'I don't want my race to be counted for me or against me, but for my race not to be counted against me, it is important that no race be counted in any way that reduces my chances of admission.' "

"So you have two different categories of minority whose interests are allegedly in conflict."

The question now is whether a newly configured court — which now includes conservative justice Samuel Alito'72 — could reverse its earlier decision and deem all racial preferences in the college admissions process unconstitutional.

Li said in a phone interview yesterday that people have misconstrued his motives for filing the complaint. "I'm fine here," he said of being at Yale. "I'm just doing this because I want to do something about the situation. I want to bring attention to it."

Currently, Li said, colleges discriminate against Asian-Americans on the basis of their ethnicity or race. "I'm not saying that people with the highest SAT scores should be admitted to universities," he said. "Lots of things should be considered beyond that, but I don't think race should be one of them."

Li, who has a perfect 2400 SAT score and near-perfect SAT II scores, was rejected this past year from five of the nine universities he applied to — Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, MIT and the University of Pennsylvania — and accepted to four: CalTech, Rutgers, Cooper Union and Yale.

Princeton maintains that its admission policies do not discriminate against Asian-American or members of any other race. "We treat each application individually and we do not discriminate on the base of race or national origin," Cliatt said. "To the contrary, we seek to enroll and do enroll classes that are diverse by a multitude of measures."

With thousands of excellent applicants competing for a little over 1,000 spots, the process of selecting a freshman class involves difficult decisions, Cliatt said. Only about half of the applicants with perfect SAT scores, for instance, were admitted last year, she said.

A study published in October by the Center for Equal Opportunity, a group which advocates colorblind admission and says colleges are "legally vulnerable" to challenges from Asian students, found significant differences in the median SAT score of admitted students from various racial groups at the University of Michigan.

In 2005, the median SAT score for Asian students was 1400 points, out of a possible 1600 under the test's old scoring regimen. The score for white students was 50 points lower, while the scores for African-American and Hispanic students were 240 and 140 points lower, respectively.

The University of Michigan has publicly dismissed that study's methodology and dismissed any claim that it discriminates against minority students. It remains unclear whether there is a difference in the median SAT scores of various ethnic groups at Princeton.

George, a former presidential appointee to the United States Commission on Civil Rights, said that the complaint deserves attention because of the new questions it raises about racial preference in higher education.

He noted that the complaint comes at a time of change at the nation's highest court, with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's recent retirement and the appointment of the more conservative Alito. O'Connor's votes, siding with the liberal justices in one case, were crucial in maintaining the constitutionality of informal racial preference policies while rejecting formal systems.

One of the "things to keep your eye on," George said, is "how would the courts interpret the Michigan Law School decision, beginning with the lower courts, but then going all the way to the Supreme Court, where the complaining student is himself a member of a minority group, only an allegedly non-underrepresented minority group."

"Will the Supreme Court, with Justice O'Connor leaving and Justice Alito coming on, uphold or reaffirm the Michigan Law School decision or overturn it?" he asked, referring to the case in which the court upheld an informal racial preference system.

Reaction at Princeton

Princeton students from Li's high school, Livingston High School, in Livingston, N.J., argued that the complaint was unnecessary.

"I think it's absolutely ludicrous, considering that in the past few years the people that my high school has sent to Princeton are 50 percent Asian," Chen Zhang '08 said. "I think it's ridiculous."

Angela Wu '10, one of Li's high school classmates who read the Journal story over the weekend, agreed. "I think it's completely unwarranted," she said.

Li and Wu both emigrated from China to the United States when they were four and attended the same high school. While Wu was admitted to the University, however, Li was not.

"You could basically replace my name in the sentence, and I did come to Princeton," Wu said. "That's what really struck me when I read it."

Carra Glatt '09, who also attended high school with Li, said he contacted her over the summer as he was collecting GPA and SAT scores from fellow high school students. Li told her that he intended to use the information to show discrimination had taken place, but Glatt refused to provide the data.

"I felt like it just played into the idea that all that mattered in the process was SAT scores and GPAs, and I felt that that wasn't accurate in my case," Glatt said. "I didn't want to perpetuate that idea."

Glatt said that while she understands Li's concerns, she disagrees with his reasoning. "I think the approach he is taking to assume that he is entitled to admission to a particular school is inherently flawed. I don't think on an individual level he was discriminated against."

Lead-up to the complaint

Li's decision to file a complaint against Princeton instead of the five other universities that rejected him was "kind of arbitrary," he said.

"I think that this kind of discrimination pervades all elite universities so I just chose one as a test case thinking if something comes of it, it will send a message for all the universities," he said.

He also came closer to admittance to Princeton than some of the other universities he was rejected from. "Princeton was one of the ones who waitlisted me so I was pretty close — I was on the cusp. Even if race played a marginal effect in my decision it would have done something," he said.

Also influencing his decision was the 2004 Princeton study conducted by sociology professor Thomas Espenshade and statistical programmer and data archivist Chang Chung.

The article, published in the journal Social Science Quarterly and based on applications over three years to "three highly selective private research universities," concluded that Asian-Americans suffer the most from affirmative action.

Abolishing the system would decrease the percentage of admitted Hispanics and African-Americans, have relatively little effect on the percentage of white students admitted and would increase the number of Asian-American students admitted by a third, making it to 23 percent from 18 percent.

Espenshade was unavailable for an interview yesterday but said in an email that "academic merit is only one kind of merit that elite college admission officers consider when deciding whom to accept."

The Office for Civil Rights (OCR) is currently reviewing the information provided by Princeton. If the parties decide not to resolve their differences and the government finds that there is sufficient evidence that the law has been violated, "OCR will negotiate with the institution to reach a voluntary agreement that settles the complaint," according to the group's website.

If the office rules in Li's favor, he can request monetary damages, George said. "But I suspect that the more likely remedy in a case like this would be an injunction requiring the admission of the student who had successfully sued."

The University can also be required to revise its policy to prevent this type of discrimination, George added.

"Theoretically, affirmative action is supposed to take spots away from white applicants and redistribute them to underrepresented minorities," Li said. "What's happening is one segment of the minority population is losing places to another segment of minorities, namely Asians to underrepresented minorities."



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982795)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:04 PM
Author: Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=524845&mc=1&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982822)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:28 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB116321461412620634-lMyQjAxMDE2NjEzMTIxMTE0Wj.html

November 11, 2006

PAGE ONE

Is Admissions Bar

Higher for Asians

At Elite Schools?

School Standards Are Probed

Even as Enrollment Increases;

A Bias Claim at Princeton

By DANIEL GOLDEN

November 11, 2006; Page A1

Though Asian-Americans constitute only about 4.5% of the U.S. population, they typically account for anywhere from 10% to 30% of students at many of the nation's elite colleges.

Even so, based on their outstanding grades and test scores, Asian-Americans increasingly say their enrollment should be much higher -- a contention backed by a growing body of evidence.

Whether elite colleges give Asian-American students a fair shake is becoming a big concern in college-admissions offices. Federal civil-rights officials are investigating charges by a top Chinese-American student that he was rejected by Princeton University last spring because of his race and national origin.

Meanwhile, voter attacks on admissions preferences for other minority groups -- as well as research indicating colleges give less weight to high test scores of Asian-American applicants -- may push schools to boost Asian enrollment. Tuesday, Michigan voters approved a ballot measure striking down admissions preferences for African-Americans and Hispanics. The move is expected to benefit Asian applicants to state universities there -- as similar initiatives have done in California and Washington.

If the same measure is passed in coming years in Illinois, Missouri and Oregon -- where opponents of such preferences say they plan to introduce it -- Asian-American enrollment likely would climb at selective public universities in those states as well.

During the Michigan campaign, a group that opposes affirmative action released a study bolstering claims that Asian students are held to a higher standard. The study, by the Center for Equal Opportunity, in Virginia, found that Asian applicants admitted to the University of Michigan in 2005 had a median SAT score of 1400 on the 400-1600 scale then in use. That was 50 points higher than the median score of white students who were accepted, 140 points higher than that of Hispanics and 240 points higher than that of blacks.

Roger Clegg, president and general counsel of the Center for Equal Opportunity, said universities are "legally vulnerable" to challenges from rejected Asian-American applicants.

Princeton, where Asian-Americans constitute about 13% of the student body, faces such a challenge. A spokesman for the Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights said it is investigating a complaint filed by Jian Li, now a 17-year-old freshman at Yale University. Despite racking up the maximum 2400 score on the SAT and 2390 -- 10 points below the ceiling -- on SAT2 subject tests in physics, chemistry and calculus, Mr. Li was spurned by three Ivy League universities, Stanford University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The Office for Civil Rights initially rejected Mr. Li's complaint due to "insufficient" evidence. Mr. Li appealed, citing a white high-school classmate admitted to Princeton despite lower test scores and grades. The office notified him late last month that it would look into the case.

His complaint seeks to suspend federal financial assistance to Princeton until the university "discontinues discrimination against Asian-Americans in all forms by eliminating race preferences, legacy preferences, and athlete preferences." Legacy preference is the edge most elite colleges, including Princeton, give to alumni children. The Office for Civil Rights has the power to terminate such financial aid but usually works with colleges to resolve cases rather than taking enforcement action.

Mr. Li, who emigrated to the U.S. from China as a 4-year-old and graduated from a public high school in Livingston, N.J., said he hopes his action will set a precedent for other Asian-American students. He wants to "send a message to the admissions committee to be more cognizant of possible bias, and that the way they're conducting admissions is not really equitable," he said.

Princeton spokeswoman Cass Cliatt said the university is aware of the complaint and will provide the Office for Civil Rights with information it has requested. Princeton has said in the past that it considers applicants as individuals and doesn't discriminate against Asian-Americans.

When elite colleges began practicing affirmative action in the late 1960s and 1970s, they gave an admissions boost to Asian-American applicants as well as blacks and Hispanics. As the percentage of Asian-Americans in elite schools quickly overtook their slice of the U.S. population, many colleges stopped giving them preference -- and in some cases may have leaned the other way.

In 1990, a federal investigation concluded that Harvard University admitted Asian-American applicants at a lower rate than white students despite the Asians' slightly stronger test scores and grades. Federal investigators also found that Harvard admissions staff had stereotyped Asian-American candidates as quiet, shy and oriented toward math and science. The government didn't bring charges because it concluded it was Harvard's preferences for athletes and alumni children -- few of whom were Asian -- that accounted for the admissions gap.

The University of California came under similar scrutiny at about the same time. In 1989, as the federal government was investigating alleged Asian-American quotas at UC's Berkeley campus, Berkeley's chancellor apologized for a drop in Asian enrollment. The next year, federal investigators found that the mathematics department at UCLA had discriminated against Asian-American graduate school applicants. In 1992, Berkeley's law school agreed under federal pressure to drop a policy that limited Asian enrollment by comparing Asian applicants against each other rather than the entire applicant pool.

Asian-American enrollment at Berkeley has increased since California voters banned affirmative action in college admissions. Berkeley accepted 4,122 Asian-American applicants for this fall's freshman class -- nearly 42% of the total admitted. That is up from 2,925 in 1997, or 34.6%, the last year before the ban took effect. Similarly, Asian-American undergraduate enrollment at the University of Washington rose to 25.4% in 2004 from 22.1% in 1998, when voters in that state prohibited affirmative action in college admissions.

The University of Michigan may be poised for a similar leap in Asian-American enrollment, now that voters in that state have banned affirmative action. The Center for Equal Opportunity study found that, among applicants with a 1240 SAT score and 3.2 grade point average in 2005, the university admitted 10% of Asian-Americans, 14% of whites, 88% of Hispanics and 92% of blacks. Asian applicants to the university's medical school also faced a higher admissions bar than any other group.

Julie Peterson, spokeswoman for the University of Michigan, said the study was flawed because many applicants take the ACT test instead of the SAT, and standardized test scores are only one of various tools used to evaluate candidates. "I utterly reject the conclusion" that the university discriminates against Asian-Americans, she said. Asian-Americans constitute 12.6% of the university's undergraduates.

Jonathan Reider, director of college counseling at San Francisco University High School, said most elite colleges' handling of Asian applicants has become fairer in recent years. Mr. Reider, a former Stanford admissions official, said Stanford staffers were dismayed 20 years ago when an internal study showed they were less likely to admit Asian applicants than comparable whites. As a result, he said, Stanford strived to eliminate unconscious bias and repeated the study every year until Asians no longer faced a disadvantage.

Last month, Mr. Reider participated in a panel discussion at a college-admissions conference. It was titled, "Too Asian?" and explored whether colleges treat Asian applicants differently.

Precise figures of Asian-American representation at the nation's top schools are hard to come by. Don Joe, an attorney and activist who runs Asian-American Politics, an Internet site that tracks enrollment, puts the average proportion of Asian-Americans at 25 top colleges at 15.9% in 2005, up from 10% in 1992.

Still, he said, he is hearing more complaints "from Asian-American parents about how their children have excellent grades and scores but are being rejected by the most selective colleges. It appears to be an open secret."

Mr. Li, who said he was in the top 1% of his high-school class and took five advanced placement courses in his senior year, left blank the questions on college applications about his ethnicity and place of birth. "It seemed very irrelevant to me, if not offensive," he said. Mr. Li, who has permanent resident status in the U.S., did note that his citizenship, first language and language spoken at home were Chinese.

Along with Yale, he won admission to the California Institute of Technology, Rutgers University and the Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art. He said four schools -- Princeton, Harvard, Stanford and the University of Pennsylvania -- placed him on their waiting lists before rejecting him. "I was very close to being accepted at these schools," he said. "I was thinking, had my ethnicity been different, it would have put me over the top. Even if race had just a marginal effect, it may have disadvantaged me."

He ultimately focused his complaint against Princeton after reading a 2004 study by three Princeton researchers concluding that an Asian-American applicant needed to score 50 points higher on the SAT than other applicants to have the same change of admission to an elite university.

"As an Asian-American and a native of China, my chances of admission were drastically reduced," Mr. Li claims in his complaint.

Write to Daniel Golden at dan.golden@wsj.com1

URL for this article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116321461412620634.html

Hyperlinks in this Article:

(1) mailto:dan.golden@wsj.com

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982948)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:29 PM
Author: Racy dilemma telephone

Please go back to the college board. We have enough crappy schticks here.

TYIA.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982956)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:32 PM
Author: Diverse weed whacker

you do the same too please

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982976)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:34 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject:



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982978)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:51 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

This has become a bigger LEGAL ISSUE now re: anti-Asian de facto quotos/bias in admissions and it will be heard eventually in the US Supreme Court again.

Quote:

George, a former presidential appointee to the United States Commission on Civil Rights, said that the complaint deserves attention because of the new questions it raises about racial preference in higher education.

He noted that the complaint comes at a time of change at the nation's highest court, with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's recent retirement and the appointment of the more conservative Alito. O'Connor's votes, siding with the liberal justices in one case, were crucial in maintaining the constitutionality of informal racial preference policies while rejecting formal systems.

One of the "things to keep your eye on," George said, is "how would the courts interpret the Michigan Law School decision, beginning with the lower courts, but then going all the way to the Supreme Court, where the complaining student is himself a member of a minority group, only an allegedly non-underrepresented minority group."

"Will the Supreme Court, with Justice O'Connor leaving and Justice Alito coming on, uphold or reaffirm the Michigan Law School decision or overturn it?" he asked, referring to the case in which the court upheld an informal racial preference system.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983076)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:52 PM
Author: Racy dilemma telephone

I saw it the first time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983079)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:54 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Keyboard was stuck. Will edit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983084)





Date: November 15th, 2006 3:11 PM
Author: Exhilarant black woman

He's better than the stupid Azn guy schtick on this side of the board.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6997975)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:44 PM
Author: Dashing plum hominid

Private schools should, if they choose, have the right to give whatever preferences they want. As much as I oppose affirmative action, these are private schools, and they are in the best position to decide what class of students will be in their best interest.

Further, the fact that he demands that schools eliminate athletic preferences shows just the narrow-minded, score-based mentality that will churn out plenty of smart graduates, but few well-rounded leaders. Even companies such as Lehman Brothers believe that athletic accomplishments are significant indicators of future success, and base hiring decisions on this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986091)





Date: November 13th, 2006 8:00 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

The private Ivies are being affected, and will be in the future.

According to Roger Clegg, the attorney who campaigned for the MCRI, these schools, both public and private ones, are vulnerable to complaints and especially law suits, from Asian Americans today. These complaints were politically incorrect according to the political right, as well as the political left in this country, but the complaints cannot be ignored anymore. Jian Li has accomplished his main stated purpose.

Please read this again from the WSJ article, if you have not done so already:

-----------------------------------------

The Office for Civil Rights initially rejected Mr. Li's complaint due to "insufficient" evidence. Mr. Li appealed, citing a white high-school classmate admitted to Princeton despite lower test scores and grades. The office notified him late last month that it would look into the case.

His complaint seeks to suspend federal financial assistance to Princeton until the university "discontinues discrimination against Asian-Americans in all forms by eliminating race preferences, legacy preferences, and athlete preferences." Legacy preference is the edge most elite colleges, including Princeton, give to alumni children. The Office for Civil Rights has the power to terminate such financial aid but usually works with colleges to resolve cases rather than taking enforcement action.

============================================

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986216)





Date: November 13th, 2006 8:32 PM
Author: Dashing plum hominid

Whether or not they will end up being affected, I maintain it would be a bad thing if they were forced to eliminate all preferences, effectively basing admissions on nothing but test scores. This could, arguably, be a fair model for public universities to follow, but the academic world (like most things) benefits from variety and competition, and to force that kind of uniformity on private schools would threaten this competition.

And I agree with Rowan; go back to the college board.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986466)





Date: November 13th, 2006 8:55 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Jian Li's case is not all about test scores and his GPA. It is about him as the "whole applicant", which includes his race.

His case is about alleged racial stereotyping by the adcom and racial bias which resulted in de facto racial quotas.

Good or bad, the the jury is still out on this issue and this will most certainly reach the US Supreme Court in the near future and the ruling will affect Federal funding for all private schools. Harvard Medical School, as an example, receives about $800 million a year from the Feds, mostly from the N.I.H in funding the school's programs, including professorships, labs and student stipends, intrastucture and hospitals. This funding also includes the monies for its Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) which is an 8 year MD-PhD course for med students fully paid for in tuition, room and board and a stipend funded by the NIH. The MSTP alone represents about 10% Harvard's medical students.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986661)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:31 PM
Author: electric chrome twinkling uncleanness temple

I was hoping this was about Ici Li

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6982971)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:39 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Asians sure do whine a lot.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983007)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:49 PM
Author: Red Deer Antler

Unlike you, Petro, they don't know what it's like to wake up in the rusted out shell of car every morning knowing that they'll have to pack a dozen heroin balloons in their colon and ferry them across the across the border before noon just so they can be rewarded with half a mayonaise sandwhich to silence their grumbling stomachs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983066)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:56 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

That shit is called 'survival,' b.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983095)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:57 PM
Author: chocolate tripping toilet seat

Whatever. You probably played up the poverty card when you applied to college.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983102)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:58 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

It wasn't just a card. I actually was really fucking poor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983106)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:01 PM
Author: chocolate tripping toilet seat

Spics sure do whine a lot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983126)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:03 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Hondurians do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983138)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:03 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

What's funny is, to the extent that I "took" anyone's spot at college, it probably was taken from some cookie-cutter asian.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983143)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:05 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

You did not read the crux of Juan Li's complaint in the WSJ and the Daily Princetonian.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983149)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:07 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Sure I did.

-He came from some random wealthy suburb in NJ, just like everyone else.

-He went to a very good school and took lots of AP classes, just like everyone else.

-He had good standardized test scores, just like everyone else.

I'll bet he even played the violin/piano.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983156)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:10 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

The whites Princeton accepted did exactly the same, and more of it, yet they were admitted at HIGHER rates than the Asians.

What's your point?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983176)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:14 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Maybe whitey was just "more of a guy."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983200)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:27 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

"More of a guy" than a Hondurian who received racial and ethnic preferences in admissions to Harvard College, or Princeton, where Jian was rejected or Yale, where Jian was admitted?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983655)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:14 PM
Author: sexy cuckoldry

LOL. Sounds like you're a "cookie cutter spic."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983205)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:16 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Actually, it seemed like a lot of the spics at my college were from the wealthy white spaniard spic elite, and just used their spanish-sounding surnames to cash in on some unwarranted AA. I'm not really a big fan of AA, particularly not for douches like that. It should be based on income more than anything else.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983212)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:26 PM
Author: sexy cuckoldry

"It should be based on income more than anything else."

True. If AA is going to be practiced at all, it should rely on income more than racial/ethnic background, although the latter should receive some consideration.

When I think back to the time I was in college, almost everyone there-latinos, blacks, asians, whites-were cookie cutter kids. It certainly seems like the current AA practice hurts asians more than any other racial group. Your assertion that the asians were more cookie cutter than kids from other races...that just doesn't jive with what I experienced. Very few, if any, college kids are actually interesting individuals.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983254)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:59 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: previous complaints were filed by white students, not Asians

Asians don't "whine a lot".

"The case, first reported this weekend by The Wall Street Journal, injects new life into a longstanding debate surrounding affirmative action and whether race can or should be a factor in college admissions. Li's minority status adds a new twist to the story, however, since previous complaints about universities' racial preference policies have been filed by white students alleging bias."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983115)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:03 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Asians don't get admitted to top schools because they are boring and do the same asiatic shit as every other asian. Piano, violin, high math scores, dreams of med school...

*yawn.*

A Yale admissions officer once admitted that he sometimes chose one applicant over another because the winning applicant was "just more of a guy" - more presence, more ambition, maybe not the greatest grades, but certainly the greatest handshake and 'business smile.'

I think that's for the best. Don't you?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983137)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:16 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Princeton is put on notice, as well as the rest of the Ivies and Elites, to open a Pandora's box regarding its admissions policy re: preferential treatment or non-preferential treatment/bias of all groups, including that of race (whites, blacks, latinos,purples, etc.), legacies, rich and famous VIPs, development cases, athletes, etc.. Their admissions policy has been OPAQUE, and this complaint will make it TRANSPARENT.

This was the main purpose of his complaint, according to Jian Li.

This is a good thing.

This issue will go to the US Supreme Court eventually.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983214)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:19 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Do you honestly think that a bunch of white country-club judges are going to let this kid's lawsuit shake up the natural order of things? Be real, son.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983222)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:21 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

They will. You could bet on it.

There were other law suits in history from Asian Americans that went to the US Supreme Court.

Why don't you name one, since you are the legal expert?

I can name at least one of the most important ones filed by an Asian American decided in the US Supreme Court in his favor. Can you name one?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983235)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:24 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Be real, son.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983249)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:27 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Son,

I can name at least one of the most important cases filed by an Asian American, decided in the US Supreme Court in his favor. Can you name one?

I am waiting for your supposed knowledge in legal history in America, son.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983256)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:43 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

I am still waiting for your supposed legal knowledge of US Supreme Court history re: Asian American cases.

You obviously know very little with the race and ethnic preferences given to you with lower standards for admissions to Harvard, or Yale, Princeton or any of the Elites.

How about it, son?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983345)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:49 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

Be careful, we traced the call and it came from Your house!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983368)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:04 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

Korematsu, son. It's still good precedent. Never forget.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983477)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:06 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Not what I had in mind. You are way off base regarding the timeline in Asian American history. The US Supreme Court case I have in mind ocurred in the late 1800's filed by a Chinese American, which he won.

Once you are aware of this one, you and all Americans should NEVER forget, because it has bearing on ALL Americans of every race and ethnicity, making America much better for everyone, even Hondurians.

Try again, son.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983499)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:41 PM
Author: Mustard Menage

Quarantine case?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986066)





Date: November 13th, 2006 8:21 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

No

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986357)





Date: November 13th, 2006 9:00 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: United States vs. Wong Kim Ark; 1898

• United States vs. Wong Kim Ark; 1898. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the government couldn't take away a person's birthright. In 1882, Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which restricted Chinese immigrants from entering this country and denied them citizenship. Before that act was repealed, Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco in 1873, left the United States and upon his return was denied entry on the grounds he was no longer a citizen. The court ruled the government could not deny Mr. Wong his citizenship.

http://www.imdiversity.com/Villages/Asian/history_heritage/wu_kimwongark_asiancitizenship.asp

Born in the U.S.A.

The landmark legal case of Wong Kim Ark, and how Asian-Pacific Americans won the right to be Americans

By Frank H. Wu, Howard University

In the 1920s, the Supreme Court confirmed that Japanese and Asian Indians were not "free white persons" and thus could not naturalize

Like most Americans, I have almost always taken my citizenship for granted. But like some Americans, I have had my citizenship challenged often enough to realize that I should care about its origins. I was born a citizen, but birth alone did not always confer citizenship.

All of us who care about our civil rights should realize that we owe a measure of our shared equality to an individual named Wong Kim Ark. A century ago in California, Wong took on the federal government in an effort to win his right to remain in his homeland.

His legal case ended up in the Supreme Court. His victory shows how, despite recurring racial prejudice, our country can remain true to its ideals. It is worthwhile to reflect on our history, not to condemn the past by contemporary standards, but to understand how we came to where we are now. There are valuable lessons in these forgotten episodes.

In the middle of the nineteenth century, Chinese immigrants began to arrive here. They were recruited to work on Southern plantations and Eastern factories. More than ten thousand of them helped build the transcontinental railroad; when they finished the job, they were fired.

What is most remarkable about the period of Chinese Exclusion is that is was then that birthright citizenship emerged as a constitutional doctrine

In frontier towns such as San Francisco, Chinese laborers represented more than a quarter of the population at times. But with an economic downturn, whites – many of whom themselves were recent arrivals to the United States – saw non-whites as racial competition. Politicians began to agitate against them, shouting the rallying cry, "The Chinese Must Go!"

In 1882, heeding warnings that Asians might overwhelm the West Coast, Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act. As the name of the bill suggested, it prohibited most people of Chinese descent from coming to this country.

Later, Congress would extend the policy to create an Asiatic Barred Zone. In the 1920s, the Supreme Court confirmed that Japanese and Asian Indians were not "free white persons" and thus could not naturalize.

After Exclusion, contrary to images of a submissive subculture isolated from the mainstream, Chinese communities engaged in civil disobedience. Chinese who were already present when Exclusion passed were allowed to stay. They could sponsor their children as immigrants under an exception to the act. So they brought in "paper sons," men who claimed falsely to be their descendants.

Chinese communities also organized themselves to protest their exclusion through politics and lawsuits. The Wong case was only one example.

What is most remarkable about the period of Chinese Exclusion is that is was then that birthright citizenship emerged as a constitutional doctrine.

Wong Kim Ark had sued to be re-admitted to the birthplace, after taking a trip to China. He argued that by virtue of his birth on its soil he was a citizen of the United States, even though his parents were racially barred from achieving that status.

I believe that birthright citizenship guarantees our most basic right, to remain in the land of our origin. It signals both that we belong to the nation and that the nation belongs to us

In opposing Wong, the federal government argued in its court briefs, "There certainly should be some honor and dignity in American citizenship that would be scared from the foul and corrupting taint of a debasing alienage."

The Solicitor General asked, "Are Chinese children born in this country to share with the descendants of the patriots of the American Revolution to exalted qualification of being eligible to the Presidency of the nation?"

He answered, "If so, then verily there has been a most degenerate departure from the patriotic ideals of our forefathers; and surely in that case American citizenship is not worth having."

Rejecting these racial arguments, the Court based its ruling on the Fourteenth Amendment. That provision of the Constitution is familiar as the source of "equal protection of the laws."

The Court gave a literal interpretation to its opening lines, that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

By doing so, the Supreme Court united racial minority groups. For the Fourteenth Amendment had been passed to overturn the notorious 1857 Supreme Court decision in the Dred Scott case, which declared that blacks were not citizens. Thus, because African Americans were citizens, Asian immigrants could be citizens as well – and vice versa.

Today’s debate over birthright citizenship brings the connection full circle. Opponents of birthright citizenship have focused on Latino immigrants. They have said that Mexican women wait until they are about to go into labor, and then cross the border to have American children, supposedly to gain government entitlements. This spectacular racial stereotype is the symbolic sister to the "welfare queen" in the Eighties – the African American single woman who has children solely to obtain public benefits.

Abolishing birthright citizenship would ensure inherited privilege: an individual would be bound by the status of their parents

With anxieties about immigration, some demagogues have renewed calls for a racial vision of United States citizenship. They forthright in their claim that this is a white (and Christian) nation by heritage. Other writers have tried to pit communities of color against one another, suggesting that African Americans should oppose immigration, and immigrants should oppose affirmative action. Yet what African Americans, Asian Americans, Latinos, and everyone else should see through Wong Kim Ark is the citizenship status we enjoy depends on the citizenship of others. Abolishing birthright citizenship would ensure inherited privilege: an individual would be bound by the status of their parents.

I believe that birthright citizenship guarantees our most basic right, to remain in the land of our origin. It signals both that we belong to the nation and that the nation belongs to us

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986694)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:20 PM
Author: Hideous brethren potus

there was one in the 1930s that held that chinese ppl were colored, and southern school districts could force chinese kids to go to the colored schools. that was the case that brown v. board of education reversed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6992995)





Date: November 22nd, 2006 2:46 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

In 1927, in Gong Lum vs. Rice, the Supreme Court ruled that a Mississippi school district could legally require a Chinese-American child to attend a black school rather than a white school under the same law. These two cases predated Brown vs. the Board of Education that was first appealed in 1951 and which would eventually abolish segregated schools.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7048813)





Date: November 13th, 2006 9:20 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: Here's the reality, son.

Date: November 13th, 2006 1:19 PM

Author: ¶etro

Do you honestly think that a bunch of white country-club judges are going to let this kid's lawsuit shake up the natural order of things? Be real, son.

(http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=#)

======================================

11/3/05 Dallas Morning News: “Parks benefited all minorities,”

By Esther Wu

In 1867 Chinese railroad workers along the Sierra Nevada in California went on strike after demanding the same wages as white workers. The Chinese, who were given the more dangerous jobs of blasting through the mountains with dynamite, were paid an average of $26 a month while Irish workers were paid $36. The strike ended when the Chinese, weak from hunger, were forced back to work – without a raise.

In many states, laws were passed to prevent Asians from owning property or businesses. Some states set boundaries where Asians were permitted to reside. In the 1800s, California enforced a labor tax on Chinese workers. During the 1890s, Texas Judge Roy Bean dismissed a case of an Irish man killing a Chinese worker, saying, "The laws are explicit on murdering your fellow man, but there's nothing here about killing a Chinaman."

In 1885, the parents of 8-year-old Mamie Tape sued the San Francisco Board of Education for refusing to admit their daughter to a public school. They lost their case when the state hastily created a separate school for children of Mongolian or Chinese descent. The California Supreme Court justices ruled that because a separate, but equal, school was available, the public school did not have to admit their daughter.

In 1927, in Gong Lum vs. Rice, the Supreme Court ruled that a Mississippi school district could legally require a Chinese-American child to attend a black school rather than a white school under the same law. These two cases predated Brown vs. the Board of Education that was first appealed in 1951 and which would eventually abolish segregated schools.

In the 1950s, Jim Crow laws ruled in the South. These laws forced people of color – Hispanics, blacks, Native Americans, Asian-Americans – from enjoying the same rights and privileges as non-minorities.

All people of color were banned from using the front entrances of hotels and restaurants. They were also relegated to the balconies of movie theaters and the backs of buses.

=======================================

5/19/04 Dallas Morning News: "Little-known cases, big impact," by Esther Wu

Monday marked the 50th anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark Brown vs. Board of Education decision, which declared segregated schools unconstitutional.

However, long before the parents of 7-year-old Linda Brown in Topeka, Kan., filed their suit, the parents of another little girl fought to get their daughter into a public school in San Francisco. Historically there hasn't been much fanfare about the 1885 case of 8-year-old Mamie Tape, which reached the California Supreme Court.

But it was just one of many significant lawsuits filed by Asian-Americans that have affected the lives of all Americans:

• Tape vs. the San Francisco Board of Education and Spring Valley School, 1885. The California Supreme Court ordered the school to admit Mamie Tape, but officials hastily lobbied the state Legislature to pass a provision to create schools for children of Mongolian or Chinese descent. Legislators decreed that when such separate schools exist, the children must not be admitted to any other school. In effect, they introduced the separate but equal doctrine that would eventually lead to the constitutional basis for segregation nationwide. In 1890, Homer A. Plessy challenged a Louisiana law requiring separate train cars for blacks and whites, but U.S. Supreme Court justices – based in part on the Tape decision – ruled that the "separate but equal" facilities were constitutional.

• Gong Lum vs. Rice, 1927. The Supreme Court ruled that a Mississippi school district could legally require a Chinese-American child to attend a black school rather than a white school, applying the "separate but equal" rule that later would be challenged in Brown vs. Board of Education.

• United States vs. Wong Kim Ark; 1898. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the government couldn't take away a person's birthright. In 1882, Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which restricted Chinese immigrants from entering this country and denied them citizenship. Before that act was repealed, Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco in 1873, left the United States and upon his return was denied entry on the grounds he was no longer a citizen. The court ruled the government could not deny Mr. Wong his citizenship.

• Yick Wo vs. Hopkins, 1886. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned a San Francisco ordinance aimed at restricting the location of Chinese laundries. The justices said the ordinance targeted a racial minority and therefore violated the constitutional rights of equal protection under the law.

• Lau vs. Nichols, 1973. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the San Francisco school system violated the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by denying non-English-speaking Chinese students the opportunity to fully participate in a public education. The justices said providing students with the same books; teachers and curriculum did not necessarily ensure student's equal opportunities if instructions were in a language students could not understand. The case would help pave the way for English as a Second Language programs.

Unlike the previous cases, a recent ruling by a Tennessee judge involving a Chinese immigrant couple has drawn concern from Asian-American civil rights groups.

In Baker vs. He, a state district judge ruled last week that Jack and Casey Luo He were unfit parents and awarded custody of their 5-year-old daughter to her foster parents, Jerry and Louise Baker. The Hes, who have custody of their two younger children, said they had given temporary custody of their oldest child to the Bakers while they were undergoing financial difficulties. The Bakers said the Hes abandoned their daughter.

While there were many factors in this case, the judge noted that Mrs. He could not speak English. He further noted that the couple – which may be deported over immigration issues – might take their daughter back to China, where there is a "one-child-per-family" policy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986818)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:45 PM
Author: Blue fanboi party of the first part

this is a hugely interesting question i think. i think the rationale for AA to be constitutional is that when the majority self-imposes "discrimination" on itself, it should not be subject to true strict scrutiny b/c it works counter to the threat of majoritarian self-interest --there's no need for a judge to scrutinize a majority acting counter to its own interest.

however, throw new minorities into the mix that are essentially discriminated against but don't have the same political power that would characterize them as a majority acting counter to self-interest, it makes the discrimination seem more dangerous and the role of the activist judge seems more appropriate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983048)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:22 PM
Author: Hideous brethren potus

asians are being admitted to ivies in numbers far exceeding their percentage of the population: 400 to 600%.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993004)





Date: November 13th, 2006 12:55 PM
Author: Violet Autistic Spot

princeton can fill it's entire class with wasps named preston and not find constitutional problem in doing so. this gets tossed out on 12(b)6. no state action here.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983092)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:02 PM
Author: Heady Center Hunting Ground

HA HA, way to out yourself as a first year law student. Why don't you go read the hundreds of cases that deal with the actions taken by private parties and I think you'd be surprised what is considered a state action.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983132)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:18 PM
Author: Blue fanboi party of the first part

is there a private university as a state actor precedent?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983221)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:35 PM
Author: Violet Autistic Spot

try again. private universities have wide latitude in fielding their classes. virginia military institute and grutter only came out the way they did because they were public bodies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983295)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:47 PM
Author: Heady Center Hunting Ground

They have wide latitude but not to the point of racial discrimination. If you think their status as a private university will be some sort of magic and complete shield for them against those claims, then you will have real problems as a lawyer. Also, as another poster notes, there is this little piece of legislation known as the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I don't believe Princeton will be able to claim any sort of exemption due to their status as a private university.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983361)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:50 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

This is true.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983374)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:22 PM
Author: Violet Autistic Spot

good luck proving discriminatory intent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983620)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:24 PM
Author: Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker

Princeton will need good luck justifying their habits without making racist generalizations about Asians.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983637)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:14 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Mr. Li, who emigrated to the U.S. from China as a 4-year-old and graduated from a public high school in Livingston, N.J., said he hopes his action will set a precedent for other Asian-American students. He wants to "send a message to the admissions committee to be more cognizant of possible bias, and that the way they're conducting admissions is not really equitable," he said.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985833)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:24 PM
Author: haunting depressive casino

Please read up on an obscure statute called the 1964 Civil Rights Act and then get back to us, son.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983244)





Date: November 14th, 2006 8:33 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Jian Li's complaint is based precisely on the wording of the charge given by the Dept of Education, Office for Civil Rights, which specifically includes enforcement actions against violations arising under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination "based on race, color, or national origin in programs or activities receiving federal financial assistance"

Princeton receives hundreds of millions in federal dollars each year, which can be stopped by the feds, if it is found guilty as charged.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6989239)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:57 PM
Author: Cerebral Lake Half-breed

Madame Cunt, is that you?!!?!?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985685)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:14 PM
Author: opaque stirring parlor

no its not her

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6992951)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:24 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

The dood got into Yale, he needs to GOI.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983247)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:30 PM
Author: Heady Center Hunting Ground

But it does seem wrong that Asians have to do so much better than Whites or anyone else to get benefits. And yet they still don't have the benefit of the old boys network. Considering how the deck is stacked against them, it is amazing how well Asians do in this country.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983272)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:34 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

They can always go back to China/Korea/Japan if they don't like it here.

edit: and you're really overstating how much "The deck" is stacked against them, so he didn't get into Princeton or MIT? big deal, not many people do, he's still MUCH better off than 99% of this country.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983292)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:48 PM
Author: Heady Center Hunting Ground

They can "go back to China..."???!!! Way to go Nazi. Odds are that lots of those kids are born here and just as American as you. Maybe you need to go back to Germany and hope that another Hitler rises to power so that Germany and the rest of Europe doesn't have to deal with those pesky non-Aryans.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983364)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:52 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

I'm hispanic dood, and he was born in China if you read the article, I grew up poor and have no sympathy for a kid whining about not getting into Princeton when he's a freshman at yale and from one of the richest towns in the country.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983386)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:53 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

Go back to Mexico

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983393)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:58 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

My family has been in this country since the 1700's dood

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983437)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:08 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

Go back to 1700s Mexico.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983507)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:27 PM
Author: Heady Center Hunting Ground

Is it his fault that his parents worked hard so that they could live in a nice neighborhood. They just came from China and maybe they had money but a lot of the immigrants don't. Your family has been here since the 1700s, why are you guys still poor?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983654)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:25 PM
Author: Heady Center Hunting Ground

I didn't say he was born in the US. Go back and re-read my post. And so what that he wasn't born in the US - it's okay to discriminate against him. And that's rich that you are Mexican. Are you somehow more American than Asian-Americans? You might be Hispanic but your attitude is Nazi.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983643)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:10 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

His point is racist as well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985790)





Date: November 13th, 2006 9:12 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

I was flaming but east asians are still the most racist people I've ever come across and had the most bad experiences with.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986759)





Date: November 14th, 2006 6:54 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

You are the racist.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6989187)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:53 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

How about going back to Hondurus?

I would not, if I were Hondurian and received racial and ethnic preferential treatment in admissioms.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983401)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:01 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

cool.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983462)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:35 PM
Author: carnelian organic girlfriend stag film

The future looks good for them. Expanding trade links with China, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983298)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:35 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

Exactly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983303)





Date: November 14th, 2006 7:06 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Then Petro, you should go back to Hondurus or Reppin Santa Anita should go back to Mexico The reason that you are not forced to go back to Hondurus or Mexico, is because of this US Supreme Court case:

United States vs. Wong Kim Ark; 1898. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the government couldn't take away a person's birthright. In 1882, Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which restricted Chinese immigrants from entering this country and denied them citizenship. Before that act was repealed, Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco in 1873, left the United States and upon his return was denied entry on the grounds he was no longer a citizen. The court ruled the government could not deny Mr. Wong his citizenship.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6989189)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:37 PM
Author: Fragrant National Tattoo

Maybe they do well because the deck is stacked against them. Same thing happened with Jews, the top schools tried keeping them out so they just made themselves that much better. Meanwhile the races that are favored by AA continue to lag way behind. Pretty strange coincidence, no?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983715)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:40 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

You are correct.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983734)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:51 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

"The dood got into Yale, he needs to GOI."

The complaint is AGAINST Princeton, not Yale.

He could have also filed this suit against the U. of Pennslyvania, or any of the other schools, which rejected him, including Harvard, and MIT.

The Dept. of Education, Office for Civil Rights, sees merit in Jian Li's complaint.

Jian Li was denied access to Princeton based on his ONE specific complaint, and this will open a Pandora's box into Princeton's admissions policies, which were previously OPAQUE. Please read the article as to why Jian Li even filed this complaint. This will also open the door for other complaints from Asian Americans, with Princeton losing Federal funding if it is found guilty. Princeton may not be found guilty, but it, as well as the Ivies and other Elites, have been put on notice, especially for future cases up to the US Supreme Court.

According to Roger Clegg, the attorney who campaigned for the MCRI, these schools, both public and private ones, are vulnerable to complaints and especially law suits, from Asian Americans today. These complaints were politically incorrect according to the political right, as well as the political left in this country, but the complaints cannot be ignored anymore. Jian Li has accomplished his main stated purpose.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983377)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:53 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

"The complaint is AGAINST Princeton, not Yale."

Obviously, this doesn't change the fact that he's in one of the most prestigious and competitive schools in THE WORLD right now.

This kid sounds full of himself, how many people make a clean sweep getting into every ivy they apply to?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983399)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:56 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

This is akin to stating an African American should not be able to sue based on discriminatory hiring practices if he got a decent job elsewhere.

You cannot excuse discrimination based on equivalent outcomes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983421)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:57 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

You will make a good lawyer and you are exhibiting this on the LAW BOARD!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983430)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:59 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

So he should have gotten into every school he applied?

Any reasons why?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983446)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:01 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Jian Li was denied access to Princeton based on his ONE specific complaint, the fact that he was denied AT PRINCETON because he was Asian.

The merits of his complaint is based on this. This is how the legal system works.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983465)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:04 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

Do you know for sure he was denied because he was asian?

Maybe it was because they had enough people from his town or people with similar applications to his.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983478)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:11 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

That's for the Office for Civil Rights, US Dept of Education to determine by INVESTIGATING his complaint.

The INVESTIGATION of Princeton, or Harvard, or any of the Ivies is a good thing in itself.

The OCR may also be biased based on political correctness (this may also be an understatement), and decide against Jian's allegation, that he was rejected because he was Asian.

If Jian Li is not not made whole by the OCR, he can hire a lawyer, or get the attorney Roger Clegg, who worked for the passage of Prop 2/MCRI, to file a federal law suit in District Court, as Jennifer Gratz did. Clegg may take the case on a pro bono basis. This case has the potential to be much bigger. If not, another Asian American who was a victim of the de facto discriminatory quota in the Ivies/Elites can file a law suit. The Asian American quota/cap in the Ivies and the Elites is an open secret.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983533)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:27 PM
Author: Sticky Contagious Gaming Laptop

yea, seems like half of the asian kids from his school who applied to princeton got in over him.

"Angela Wu '10, one of Li's high school classmates who read the Journal story over the weekend, agreed. "I think it's completely unwarranted," she said.

Li and Wu both emigrated from China to the United States when they were four and attended the same high school. While Wu was admitted to the University, however, Li was not.

"You could basically replace my name in the sentence, and I did come to Princeton," Wu said. "That's what really struck me when I read it." "

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985414)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:30 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

And because of the de facto Asian quota, limiting and capping Asians, he was denied. If this is indeed the case, he will win his case, based on his charge and complaint to the OCR that he was denied because of his Asian race.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985439)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:32 PM
Author: Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan

His high school classmates are saying he was denied because he's a douche.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985458)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:35 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Well, that's easy for them to say, even if his classmates did say it and I doubt that they actually said it. Let them say it under subpeona and testimony. Let them prove what they say. Let Princeton's adcom say this under sworn testimony under oath, and Jian will win his case. I doubt the US Dept. of Education, Office for Civil Rights will say this in their decision.

BTW, Jian Li appeared from his Yale dorm room, on the ABC TV News 20/20 program, this last Thursday, and he was interviewed by Mr. Bashir. He was quite presentable and convincing, while stating his case eloquently in perfect English, despite being born in China with immigrant parents.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985492)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:10 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

No, not necessarily. If the case moves, it will be up to him and his lawyers toi prove he was discriminated against based on ethnicity.

I'm merely stating that you can't argue against a discriminatory practice based on relatively equivalemnt outcomes. Whether he can prove the practice was discriminatory remains to be seen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983527)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:13 PM
Author: Laughsome filthpig

"I'm merely stating that you can't argue against a discriminatory practice based on relatively equivalemnt outcomes."

I agree with this, but the kid Li is still a whiny baby for making such a big case out of this when he got into Yale. And the fact the he's a cookie cutter student at one of the wealhiest and best performing schools in NJ (Where Princeton gets a TON of apps from) probably has a lot to do with why he didn't get in.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983549)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:18 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

Okay, he's a whiney baby, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983590)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:20 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Exactly, but he is not "whiney". He is doing this to prove racial discrimination against Asians by Princeton. He is happy at Yale, but Princeton was one of his top choices. He should not have been denied his top choice based on his Asian race.

He may have an excellent case.

In any case, the admissions policy of Princeton will be made more transparent, instead of being opaque. This is a good thing, and I suspect the Princeton adcom is very apprehensive with the prospect of the review of all their admissions decisions, disaggregated by race and ethnicity and under what standards, objective and subjective, and what criteria each applicant was admitted with.

This is a GOOD THING, no matter what the outcome of the complaint with the OCR is.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983609)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:25 PM
Author: Hideous brethren potus

how fucking many livingston hs grads does princeton need to admit? princeton is world-class, not nj-class.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993012)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:22 PM
Author: Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker

It didn't sound like he personally has any interest at all in getting his rejection overturned. He just wants to burn Princeton for their racist admissions practices.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983622)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:24 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

You will also make a good lawyer, as exemplified by your post on the LAW BOARD!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983639)





Date: November 13th, 2006 8:44 PM
Author: Ultramarine Location International Law Enforcement Agency

I don't think you can say he's whiny just based on the info provided. He seems to be doing it more for others than himself. If you're going to bring a discrimination claim it really helps to have people with high qualifications because otherwise you always have those arguments saying even absent AA they probably would not have gotten in.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986569)





Date: November 13th, 2006 9:49 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

You are correct.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986991)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:35 PM
Author: Fragrant National Tattoo

Lots of kids make a clean sweep. The key is to only apply to one.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983707)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:52 PM
Author: curious codepig persian

"Li, who has a perfect 2400 SAT score and near-perfect SAT II scores, was rejected this past year from five of the nine universities he applied to — Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, MIT and the University of Pennsylvania — and accepted to four: CalTech, Rutgers, Cooper Union and Yale."

W00T. GO YALE AND RUTGERS!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983388)





Date: November 13th, 2006 1:56 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Rutgers is only #6 in the BCS ratings, but ABOVE Yale, which does not count in Div. 1A.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983418)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:28 PM
Author: Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker

Btw, wasn't Jian Li the name of Chow Yun Fat's character in "The Replacement Killers"?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983662)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:30 PM
Author: Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker

While we're (I'm) on the topic of that film: WGWAG

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983674)





Date: November 13th, 2006 2:34 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Well, Jian Li is Chinese and many Chinese have the same names, both first names coupled with their surnames. Li is probably the most common name amoung the Chinese.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6983698)





Date: November 13th, 2006 5:51 PM
Author: Pearly indian lodge

I'm in agreement with petro on the cookie-cutter Asians.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985084)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:04 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Well, your racist generalization, as are Petro's and Princeton's, will be under investigation by the US Dept. of Education, Office for Civil Rights.

This will put Princeton, as well as all the PRIVATE Ivies/Elites on notice for their alleged racial bias against Asian Americans in admissions with the use of your "cookie-cutter" generalization, akin to a racist stereotype. This complaint will have this effect, no matter what its outcome at the OCR This is one of the main goals for Jian Li in filing his complaint. He does not need to go to Princeton, since he is enrolled at Yale with the same credentials, standing out among the applicants to Yale, with his admission to Yale, the most selective college in the nation with a 8.6% admit rate for all applicants in the Class of 2010.

If he is "too stellar" an applicant compared to the rest of the applicants, and Asian, and only competing for admission among his own racial group and not the rest of the applicant groups in the pool because of a de facto racial and ethnic quota against Asians, then he will win in his complaint against Princeton.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985175)





Date: November 13th, 2006 6:43 PM
Author: yellow step-uncle's house

Please, most of the Ivy admits of whatever race is boring as fuck.The same ole fucking community service, research, whatevre shit.

You get a dozen community college students and a dozen Ivy ieague students, the CC students will be less "boring".

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985561)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:02 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

There are no racial and ethnic quotas in Community Colleges, and you should attend one, if you are not attending one already.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985728)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:36 PM
Author: sexy cuckoldry

"Please, most of the Ivy admits of whatever race is boring as fuck.The same ole fucking community service, research, whatevre shit."

I said this much in an earlier post. Went to a LAC, not an Ivy, but the student body composition is roughly the same. Except for that fact that were were a bit more stupid, of course.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986017)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:18 PM
Author: Aggressive church building

1. he's just bitter he couldn't get into the fourth best ivy

2. is this "hero" chracter serious? sounds like roger luo reincarnate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985872)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:44 PM
Author: Trip Idea He Suggested Wrinkle

he mostly posts his worthless shit on the college board but apparently since this is a "legal case" now, he has to annoy us too. he's a tool of the highest order.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986089)





Date: November 13th, 2006 11:29 PM
Author: sexy cuckoldry

He brings up important issues and I don't necessarily disagree with his point of view (at least not always), but he's annoying as all fuck. Sometimes I think hero's actually some kind of copy/paste 'Net robot...very rarely will he post his own opinion...he just copies and pastes long articles. Plus his Engrish is weird. Sometimes I think, like aznazn, that the dude's just some poorly executed flame by some white guy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6987733)





Date: November 13th, 2006 7:27 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: Serious- discrimination against Asians under increased scrutiny

Jian Li is serious and so is the US Dept. of Education, Office for Civil Rights which saw merit in his complaint by opening an investigation of Princeton's admissions policies. The Wall Street Journal and Dan Golden are serious, when Dan wrote about this issue.

http://www.discriminations.us/

Preferences As A Zero-Sum Game

It really shouldn’t surprise anyone (though it still does) that giving preferences to some applicants based on their race places a burden on other applicants because of their race. Nor at this late date should it surprise anyone (though it still does) that the primary beneficiaries of eliminating preferences to minorities are not whites but another minority group, Asian-Americans.

Asian-American enrollment at Berkeley has increased since California voters banned affirmative action in college admissions. Berkeley accepted 4,122 Asian-American applicants for this fall's freshman class -- nearly 42% of the total admitted. That is up from 2,925 in 1997, or 34.6%, the last year before the ban took effect. Similarly, Asian-American undergraduate enrollment at the University of Washington rose to 25.4% in 2004 from 22.1% in 1998, when voters in that state prohibited affirmative action in college admissions.

The University of Michigan may be poised for a similar leap in Asian-American enrollment, now that voters in that state have banned affirmative action. The Center for Equal Opportunity study found that, among applicants with a 1240 SAT score and 3.2 grade point average in 2005, the university admitted 10% of Asian-Americans, 14% of whites, 88% of Hispanics and 92% of blacks. Asian applicants to the university's medical school also faced a higher admissions bar than any other group

Now, as Dan Golden reports in front-page article in the Wall Street Journal, discrimination against Asians is coming under increased scrutiny. A Chinese-American student has filed a complaint against Princeton, and the Office for Civil Rights of the Department of Education has agreed to investigate.

Posted by John Rosenberg at 1:02 PM

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6985941)





Date: November 13th, 2006 9:44 PM
Author: irradiated dopamine

The problem is, the Asians tend to off themselves.

And then their parents sue the school, claiming it was the school's fault.

MIT has had to pay several time in the past years because of this. That might factor in to an adcom decision.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6986952)





Date: November 13th, 2006 10:12 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Are you really serious with this post?

If that's your reasoning and defense, then Jian Li will certainly win his case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6987170)





Date: November 13th, 2006 11:39 PM
Author: chartreuse antidepressant drug dog poop

Umless...the anonymous poster is not, in fact, the brains behind the defense.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6987808)





Date: November 13th, 2006 11:47 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

What brains?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6987858)





Date: November 14th, 2006 8:17 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Jian Li's complaint is based precisely on the wording of the charge given by the Dept of Education, Office for Civil Rights, which specifically includes enforcement actions against violations arising under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination "based on race, color, or national origin in programs or activities receiving federal financial assistance"

Please read the WSJ article by Dan Golden.

Princeton receives monies from the Feds and these monies can be stopped by the Feds, if Princeton, or any other private Ivy/Elite for that matter, is found guilty of this charge.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6989221)





Date: November 14th, 2006 12:29 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/11/14/princeton

Nov. 14

New Challenge to Affirmative Action

Comment posted from link:

Whatever the outcome Jian Li is to be commended. We know from the California experience with Prop 209 that Asians are being disproprtionately harmed by legally-sanctioned discrimination under the guise of affirmative action. The rejoinder that ‘it just hurts Asians in general not any specific Asian’ is a ludicrous copout. The policy of affirmative action must end before it exacerbates the divisions between racial winners and losers even more than it has to date.

Thanks, at 8:31 am EST on November 14, 2006



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6989987)





Date: November 14th, 2006 5:06 PM
Author: vivacious lay

"more of a guy" -- seems like a good criterion on which to judge interviewees

also, maybe this kid's essay sucked...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6991461)





Date: November 14th, 2006 6:45 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

The OCR will ask Princeton to release all the applicants' info, including essays and their interviews, in their investigation. This is the intended purpose of Jian's complaint against Princeton, that is to open up the admissions process for public viewing. He does not need or want a Princeton acceptance. He wants to know if he was rejected because of his race, and this is ILLEGAL. He is happy at Yale.

I commend him for his courage in filing his complaint, which the OCR accepted because it was not frivilous or lacking in merit. This is a GOOD consequence of the complaint making the admissions process more TRANSPARENT, even if the OCR decides against him. I really think the politically correct OCR will decide against him, but so what? If he so chooses, he can file a federal law suit in Federal District Court. Jennifer Gratz did. Roger Clegg, the attorney for the MCRI can be Jian's attorney in the suit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6991908)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:06 PM
Author: vivacious lay

what if princeton refuses to comply? what if written evaluations of essays/interviews are destroyed as a matter of course? what if the only substantive evaluation of his essay is a quick note like 'doesn't speak to me'? how will these documents even mean anything without other applicants materials with which to compare them? i assume the release of third parties' materials violate privacy laws.

are you expecting the OCR to make an objective judgement about LI's application materials within a vacuum?

your head is up your ass. nothing is going to come of this bullshit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6992904)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:33 PM
Author: Brilliant cowardly house

"i assume the release of third parties' materials violate privacy laws."

of course. but they can probably compel princeton to aggregate statistics. if those demonstrate enough of an adverse effect on asians, i'm sure the judge would be happy to shift the burden to princeton to prove that it wasn't being racist. and it wouldn't be able to, since asians really do get screwed even worse than white people in college application processes. so it'll be interesting to see where this one goes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993066)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:35 PM
Author: vivacious lay

is there some distinction drawn between effect/intent?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993083)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:42 PM
Author: Hideous brethren potus

duh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993127)





Date: November 14th, 2006 9:43 PM
Author: Brilliant cowardly house

yeah but i imagine that only kicks in once all the evidence is on the table, and i'm sure, for example, if a 7-11 only hired white clerks, the burden would be on them to explain the intent behind the effect and not the plaintiff

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993145)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:14 PM
Author: Hideous brethren potus

only white ppl live here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993377)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:36 AM
Author: Brilliant cowardly house

maybe that would work for the 7-11, but probably not for princeton

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996401)





Date: November 15th, 2006 5:37 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: Carla Martin said

"what if the only substantive evaluation of his essay is a quick note like 'doesn't speak to me'? how will these documents even mean anything without other applicants materials with which to compare them? "

Li is an articulate young man who speaks perfect English, without an accent, despite the fact that he had English as a second language (ESL) with hardworking immigrant Chinese parents. Li immigrated when he was 4 yrs old and his accomplishment are to be commended HOLISTICALLY. He went to public schools in NYC before moving to Livingston, NJ and graduating from its public HS in the top 1% of his class, Besides his ECs, he also scored a perfect 2400 on his SAT I and a near perfect 2390 on his 3 SAT II tests.

He can certainly write an essay with the best of them.

To bad the was not Mexican, Latino, or Black with the same credentials and admissions file at Princeton, if there are any Mexican, Latino, or Black applicants, with his accomplishments at all. If there were, these other applicants would have been flown into Princeton by jet, placed in a first class hotel along with their parents, and the adcom would be on their knees, begging him to enroll, while the adcom is genuflexing in unison. Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and Stanford would also do this if Jian Li were Mexican, Latino, or Black. They all rejected Jian Li. Too bad he was not Mexican, Latino, Black . His chances for admission would have been assured and he would have been an AUTOADMIT! Too bad he was not white, because his chances would been significantly improved.

Jian Li CAN WRITE AND ESSAY AND INTERVIEW WELL.

See his interview by Martin Bashir of AASC News here.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2625731

Use this above link to view the internet edition of the ABC News Nightline Program, “College For Sale”

Mr. Bashir interviews Jian Li, a Yale student, about racism and stereotyping against Asians by elite colleges in the admissions process. Dan Golden of the WSJ is also interviewed on the program.

Jian filed a complaint against Princeton with the OCR for discrimination in his rejection based on his Asian race,

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6995849)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:08 PM
Author: arousing juggernaut

Nothing will come of this case.

Clearly it is not in the best interest of an insitution, its students or the greater good of society to have all one ethnicity at a university. Some of the elites have an Asian American population on their campus 8x times that of the country. Ideally, university campuses should represent society at large and having an over-representation of any ethnic group that stronly deviates from the national norm would be a disservice to its students as when they leave their college, they will not have had the opportunity to learn amongst people ethnically different from themself. As a global good, this is important.

Universities are in charge of "creating a class" which means they are not creating classes with 2400 / valedictorians, but generating a class that will learn from eachother, be challenged by differences and be able to learn through dissonance and a wide variety of perspectives. Think for a moment if you would like to discuss To Kill a Mockingbird with 19 peers all of identical ethnicity. Not to say that an intellectually valuable conversation wouldn't occur, but to what extent would the discussion be lacking due to the singularities in the group?

Courts will generally uphold the idea that a diverse class is in the best interest of its students, the country and the world.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993325)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:12 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Jews are more highly represented at these schools.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993357)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:23 PM
Author: Hilarious amethyst station windowlicker

Did you really just use "singularities" that way?

Classroom discussion-

Nick X. Chan: Was Harper Lee asian?

Grace Kim: Holy shit dude, is that a black hole under your chair?

Nick Z. Chan: AIIEEEE!!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993437)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:32 AM
Author: grizzly floppy boltzmann

TITCR

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996169)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:13 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: Jian Li states his purpose for the complaint

Front-page today and also can be found on the www.nj.com Web site under The Times of Trenton link near the bottom right of the page via the "select a newspaper" pulldown menu.

No admission spurs probe

Princeton accused of Asian-American bias

Tuesday, November 14, 2006

BY ROBERT STERN

PRINCETON BOROUGH -- When Jian Li applied to start his freshman year at Princeton University this fall, he secretly hoped for the one thing most college applicants dread: rejection.

Princeton fulfilled his secret wish, he said.

By doing so, the university unwittingly played into Li's plan to spotlight alleged bias against Asian-American students in the admissions offices of prestigious schools like Princeton.

And now Princeton finds itself under a federal civil rights investigation by the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights, which opened a case against Princeton in response to a complaint Li filed over the summer calling for the federal probe of his admission denial.

"I was actually hoping to be rejected by Princeton University so I could file a civil rights suit," Li said in a telephone interview yesterday.

Li was speaking from Yale University, where the 17-year-old Chinese immigrant who aced his SATs is a freshman considering a major in psychology.

Princeton spokeswoman Cass Cliatt said the university views the case as unfounded but will cooperate with the federal investigation.

Li and his family moved to the United States when he was 4 years old and attended public schools in New York City, Long Island and eventually in Livingston, Essex County, where he graduated from Livingston High School earlier this year.

Li, who said he is a permanent U.S. resident but not a U.S. citizen, said his dispute with Princeton isn't about his own situation but rather about the broader issue of Asian-American students allegedly getting shortchanged in the admissions stakes of Princeton and other elite schools.

"I don't really seek to gain anything personal from it," said Li, adding that he doesn't even have an attorney, although he is seeking legal counsel.

"I just want to draw attention to this issue (of admissions discrimination against Asian-Americans by top colleges) that's really been left unaddressed in our country," where he said race issues tend to be viewed in terms of black and white.

His complaint seeks to suspend federal financial assistance to Princeton until the university "discontinues discrimination against Asian-Americans in all forms by eliminating race preferences, legacy preferences (which benefit children of alumni) and athlete preferences," according to The Wall Street Journal, which first reported the federal investigation Saturday.

But Princeton officials aren't scrambling to change their admissions practices just yet.

"We do not believe the case has merit," Cliatt said. "The university treats each application individually and we do not discriminate on the basis of race or national origin."

"To the contrary, we seek to enroll and we do enroll classes that are diverse by a multitude of measures" that include a wide range of factors, from race to socio-economic and religious background to talent and sexual orientation, she said.

Li said he doesn't want to leave Yale for Princeton, which rejected him despite his perfect combined score of 2,400 on the SATs.

Cliatt said Princeton rejected about half of the applicants who had perfect SAT scores for the current freshman class. "I can say with absolute certainty that that half that were not admitted constituted a diverse group of students."

At first, the DOE's Office for Civil Rights rejected his overture to make his case the basis for an investigation of Princeton, he said.

His request for an investigation was denied initially because of "insufficient" evidence pertaining to his specific situation.

The Office for Civil Rights informed Li that his reliance on statistical information about SAT scores and the racial composition of students enrolled at Princeton wasn't adequate to justify an investigation.

What his complaint lacked at first was any information about specific non-Asian-American applicants admitted to Princeton's current freshman class with lower SAT scores than Li.

Li managed to get his hands on one such example -- information from a white, American-born applicant he knows whom Princeton admitted despite having "marginally" lower SAT scores than his -- and reluctantly passed that information to the Office for Civil Rights, a move that prompted the case to be opened for investigation in late October.

"I was reluctant to make this argument that I was somehow more qualified than this person but the department required me to give a concrete example," Li said. "Furthermore, I don't believe I was more qualified."

"This merely serves as kind of a tool, a means by which the case could start," he said. "It's not the basis of my actual opinion."

Although Li said he set out on his own to play a role in the effort to level the playing field for Asian- American students in the college admissions process, he drew his inspiration from a Web site, www.asianam.org, that highlights these and other issues important to the Asian-American community.

In part, the Web site calls on Asian-American students rejected by the nation's top schools to file civil rights complaints in the hope of helping end admissions practices that favor other applicants to the detriment of equally or better qualified Asian-American students.

Neither Cliatt nor a DOE spokesman late yesterday could immediately provide an estimate of the number of civil rights complaints or investigations against Princeton University in recent years.

At Princeton, minorities make up 37 percent of the current freshman class of 1,231 students, including almost 14 percent who are Asian-American, excluding non- U.S. residents or citizens, according to the university. Five years ago, Princeton's freshman class consisted of 12.5 percent Asian-American students.

Contact Robert Stern at rstern@njtimes.com or (609) 989-5731.

© 2006 The Times of Trenton

© 2006 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993363)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:19 PM
Author: Hideous brethren potus

pretty obvious princeton had already accepted too many new jersey students. li is much better off going to a better college in a different state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993406)





Date: November 14th, 2006 10:35 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Li and his family moved to the United States when he was 4 years old and attended public schools in New York City, Long Island and eventually in Livingston, Essex County, where he graduated from Livingston High School earlier this year.

English was his second language. And he is NOT EVEN Mexican or Latino. He had the misfortune to be Asian in the admissions game where Asians are a NON-PREFERRED MINORITY.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6993570)





Date: November 15th, 2006 9:22 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Li is an articulate young man who speaks perfect English, without an accent, despite the fact that he had English as a second language (ESL) with hardworking immigrant Chinese parents. Li immigrated when he was 4 yrs old and his accomplishment are to be commended HOLISTICALLY. He went to public schools in NYC before moving to Livingston, NJ and graduating from its public HS in the top 1% of his class, Besides his ECs, he also scored a perfect 2400 on his SAT I and a near perfect 2390 on his 3 SAT II tests.

He can certainly write an essay with the best of them.

Too bad the was not Mexican, Latino, or Black with the same credentials and admissions file at Princeton, if there are any Mexican, Latino, or Black applicants, with his accomplishments at all. If there were, these other applicants would have been flown into Princeton by jet, placed in a first class hotel along with their parents, and the adcom would be on their knees, begging him to enroll, while the adcom is genuflexing in unison. Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and Stanford would also do this if Jian Li were Mexican, Latino, or Black. They all rejected Jian Li. Too bad he was not Mexican, Latino, Black . His chances for admission would have been assured and he would have been an AUTOADMIT! Too bad he was not white, because his chances would been significantly improved.

Jian Li CAN WRITE AN ESSAY AND INTERVIEW WELL.

See his interview by Martin Bashir of AASC News here.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2625731

Use this above link to view the internet edition of the ABC News Nightline Program, “College For Sale”

Mr. Bashir interviews Jian Li, a Yale student, about racism and stereotyping against Asians by elite colleges in the admissions process. Dan Golden of the WSJ is also interviewed on the program.

Jian filed a complaint against Princeton with the OCR for discrimination in his rejection based on his Asian race,

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996031)





Date: November 15th, 2006 9:25 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal
Subject: Jian Li can make a prima facie case against Princeton

It is about the TRANSPARENCY

He can make a prima facie case that Asians are being discriminated against as a class in applications to private colleges. If that is so, then the burden may shift to Princeton to first, make clear the types of yardsticks it is using in admissions and, second (unlikely) to provide a compelling case for those criteria. It might be interesting to see Princeton admit that they give preferences to legacies, prof’s brats, development admits, Title IX minor sports kids, and sons and daughters of celebrities in addition to minority non-Asian applicants.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996034)





Date: November 15th, 2006 9:34 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

In addition, consider Ho v. San Francisco Unified School District, a case brought by the Asian American Legal Foundation on behalf of Chinese students in San Francisco who complained that city’s racial school assignment policy. Here is a brief summary from a law review note:

In San Francisco Unified School District, the voluntary integration policy divided students into thirteen racial/ethnic categories: “American; American Indian; Chinese; Filipino; Hispanic/Latino; Japanese; Korean; White; Arabic; Samoan; Southeast Asian ; Middle Easterner; and Other Non-White.” The policy mandated that “[n]o school shall have fewer than four racial/ethnic groups represented in its student body [and] [n]o racial/ethnic group shall constitute more than 45% of the student enrollment at any regular school, nor more than 40% at any alternative school.” Chinese Americans had become the largest identifiable ethnic group in San Francisco, and they were disproportionately burdened under the policy. In some heavily Chinese neighborhoods, young children were forced to attend schools far from their homes to satisfy the 45% requirement. The greatest controversy erupted at one of the district’s “alternative” high schools. Lowell High School, one of the best high schools in the country, admitted students through a competitive magnet admissions policy. Under the 40% cap, this policy became a quota for students of Chinese descent. This led the Ho plaintiffs, Chinese-American students that were turned away from their schools of choice, to challenge the policy. The litigation spanned five years until, on interlocutory appeal to the Ninth Circuit, the court placed the burden on the school district to prove a remedial interest. With the courts unwilling to recognize diversity as a compelling interest, the school district settled on the first day of trial, eliminating the use of race in student placement.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996051)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:01 AM
Author: Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan

Princeton should just come out and say, "We rejected him not because was have too many Asians, but because we have too many douchebags." I don't think anybody could object to this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996095)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:40 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

That's exactly what Princeton had said.

Let Princeton say it again, loud and clear.

Then Princeton will lose.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996188)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:18 AM
Author: slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead

Geez whiz,

the kid got rejected at Penn, which is probably the most Asian-friendly of the Ivies. Sounds like he was a major douchebag and I'm surprised he got into Yale in the first place.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996133)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:41 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Too bad the was not Mexican, Latino, or Black with the same credentials and admissions file at Princeton, if there are any Mexican, Latino, or Black applicants, with his accomplishments at all. If there were, these other applicants would have been flown into Princeton by jet, placed in a first class hotel along with their parents, and the adcom would be on their knees, begging them to enroll, while the adcom is genuflexing in unison. Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and Stanford would also do this if Jian Li were Mexican, Latino, or Black. They all rejected Jian Li. Too bad he was not Mexican, Latino, Black . His chances for admission would have been assured and he would have been an AUTOADMIT! Too bad he was not an affluent white, because his chances would been significantly improved.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996190)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:44 AM
Author: slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead

Whoop de whoop. I'm a white kid who wasn't wined and dined by Princeton. Princeton took me because I wasn't a douchebag.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996194)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:47 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Poor whites don't get whined and dined.

Too bad he was not a rich affluent white, because his chances would been significantly improved. Douchbags are plentiful in this white group.

"The New Jews, Asian Americans Need Not Apply"- Dan Golden

From Daniel Golden's The Price of Admission, Chapter 7, "The New Jews, Asian Americans Need Not Apply":

“In 1990, federal investigators concluded that UCLA's graduate department in mathematics

had discriminated against Asian applicants.”

“most elite universities have maintained a triple standard in college admissions, setting the bar highest for Asians, next for whites, and lowest for blacks and Hispanics.

According to a 2004 study by three Princeton researchers, an Asian American applicant needs to score 50 points higher on the SAT than other applicants just to have the same chance of admission to an elite university. (Being an alumni child, by contrast, confers a 160-point advantage.) Yale records show that entering Asian American freshmen averaged a 1493

SAT score in 1999-2000, 1496 in 2000-2001, and 1482 in 2001-2. For the same three years, the average for white freshmen was about 40 points lower. Black and Hispanic freshmen lagged another 100-125 points below whites. A Yale spokesman attributed the Asian-white gap to more whites being recruited athletes, and said Asians and whites are held to the same academic standards."

. . . . . . . . . .

"Federal investigators also turned up stereotyping by Harvard admissions evaluators. Possibly

reflecting a lack of cultural understanding, Harvard evaluators ranked Asian American candidates

on average below whites in "personal qualities." In comments written in applicants' files, Harvard

admissions staff repeatedly described Asian Americans as "being quiet/shy, science/math oriented,

and hard workers," the report found. One reader summed up an Asian applicant this way: "He's quiet and, of course, wants to be a doctor."

. . . . . . . . . .

"He [ Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt] added that the stereotype of the quiet Asian student

is "really a strange notion. My Asian American students are very lively. They take leadership

positions. They're not at all shy or reticent."

. . . . . . . . . .

"Now as then, a lack of preferences can be a convenient guise for racism. Much as college administrators justified anti-Jewish policies with ethnic stereotypes -- one Yale dean in 1918 termed the typical Jewish student a "greasy grind" -- so Asians are typecast in college admissions offices as quasi-robots programmed by their parents to ace math and science tests. Asked why Vanderbilt poured resources into recruiting Jews instead of Asians, a former administator told me, "Asians are very good students, but they don't provide the kind of intellectual environment that Jewish students provide."

. . . . . . . . . .

From Chapter 10, "Ending the Preferences of Privilege":

"Provide equal access for Asian American students and for international students who need financial aid. If elite colleges were truly committed to socioeconomic diversity, they would regard the proliferation of outstanding Asian American applicants as an opportunity, not a problem.

They would rush to propel into the higher ranks of American society a group of students who not only boast outstanding test scores and grades but also are immigrants or immigrants' children from low- or middle-income families that sacrificed in hope of a better life for the next generation. Asian American students also bring a variety of cultures, languages, and religions to stir the campus melting pot.

Colleges should counter anti-Asian bias through sensitivity training sessions and hiring more Asian American admissions deans, directors, and staff."



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996205)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:24 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Poor-whites who are non-Jews also get screwed along with Asians because they do not get PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT IN ADMISSIONS!! Asians, in addittion, get additionally more screwed because of their race alone.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996364)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:49 AM
Author: grizzly floppy boltzmann

P already has too many asians. if they did away with anti-asian AA, the school would be completely asian and white. the same effect would take hold at other elite colleges, forcing blacks and hispanics to attend ttts. only an asian like yourself can't understand why this is a horrible result for our country.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996208)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:54 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Speak to the students at UC Berkeley or the Jews, the most overrpresented group, at the Ivies/Elites.

Harvard is not all Asians and it will never be all Asians, Harvard is not all Jews and it will never be all Jews.

Eliminating the anti-Jewish quota did not change Harvard, except for improving academic excellence, and eliminating mediocrity. Eliminating the anti-Asian quota will do the same or more for Harvard, the Ivies, Elites (public and private).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996224)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:58 AM
Author: grizzly floppy boltzmann

given the increasingly large disparity in test scores, getting rid of anti-asian AA would certainly "improve academic excellence," but only if by "academic excellence" you mean the SAT scores of incoming students. in america, however, we believe "academic excellence" involves more than that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996242)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:10 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Speak to the Jews who were there, before the anti-Jewish quota was abolished.

There are no quotas against Jews today. The Jewish quota has been replaced by the anti-Asian quota.

Admissions is NOT all about test scores and grades and Li is not arguing that his file only had this. It is about race also and race only.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996304)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:50 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Date: November 15th, 2006 10:18 AM

Author: TallyHo

Geez whiz,

the kid got rejected at Penn, which is probably the most Asian-friendly of the Ivies. Sounds like he was a major douchebag and I'm surprised he got into Yale in the first place.

============================================

Too bad he was not a rich affluent white, because his chances would been significantly improved. Douchbags are plentiful in this white group.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996473)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:55 AM
Author: Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan

These "too bad you're not X" arguments are ridiculously oversimplistic. It's not just a flip of a gene that makes you one race or another; there's a whole lot more that comes with that. For example, you could say, "Too bad he's not black, or he would have gotten in." Okay, but if he were black, there's also a good chance that he'd be either dead or in prison by now. So instead you propose, "Well, too bad he isn't a rich educated black, or he would have gotten in." Okay sure, but it's also too bad he's not an NBA star with a multi-million contract right out of high school. It doesn't mean anything.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996497)





Date: November 15th, 2006 12:00 PM
Author: slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead

Shrugs.

Anonymous preppies from mediocre private schools are rejected in the thousands every year. If the Li kid had the connections that Bill Frist's son does, he would have been accepted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996520)





Date: November 15th, 2006 12:14 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

I am not talking about Bill First's children or even his kind, who are few in numbers. Of course they exist and they are autoadmits for whites, as well as blacks. Denzel Washington's daughter is a freshman at Yale today. He is a rich VIP black Academy Awarding actor.

That's just one point. but affluent rich whites with bullshit "soft factors" from the suburbs are given preferential treatment in admissions. They engage in bullshit clubs and prep and suburban HS sports such as lacrosse, squash, crew, horseback riding, archery and even synchronized swimming (archery and synch. swim. are boith Olympic Sports). These whites constitute the biggest group of whites, in the Ivies/Elites. Douchbags are plentiful in this white group also.

There ain't too many colored folk in archery, ice hockey, or field hockery or even in Ivy football or basketball. They are mainly white.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996601)





Date: November 15th, 2006 12:27 PM
Author: slap-happy appetizing useless brakes stead

Princeton values these sports just as much as classical musicians. Princeton also needs to admit students who can pay full freight tuitions. Princeton also needs to keep its alumni dollars rolling in.

Actual preppy wasps or wannabe wasps make up, oh, say, 10-15% of the student body at the Ivies (maybe 20% at Princeton). After you discount the financial aid students, the minority students, the jews, plus all the wops and the international students, kids with names like Preston Gould or Martha Stanley drop down to a small minority.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996695)





Date: November 15th, 2006 12:34 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

I am talking about rich affluent whites, which include white Jews, not just "waspy whites". In many of these schools, rich affluent Jewish whites outnumber WASPs, and especially Episcopalians, the founders of these schools. They recieve prferentrial treatment in admissions.

Jews represent on average about 25 to 30% of the Ivies and the majority of all the whites in these schools. Harvard is 30% Jewish. Penn is 35% Jewish. The Jews are all white.

There ain't too many poor whites non-Jews , or white trailer trash in the Ivies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996739)





Date: November 15th, 2006 10:55 AM
Author: Flatulent sanctuary coldplay fan

This is the guy, btw: http://www.yaledailynews.com/ViewPhoto.aspx?PhotoID=10371

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996228)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:14 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=34346

Published: Wednesday, November 15, 2006

Anti-Asian bias alleged

Princeton faces suit from Univ. freshman

By Kimberly Chow and Judy Wang

Staff Reporters

Enlarge Photo | Purchase Photo

Matt Baer/Contributing Photographer

Jian Li ’10, who applied to Princeton University last year and was not accepted, is filing suit against the college for race-based discrimination in its admissions process.

A Yale freshman has filed a civil rights complaint against Princeton University, alleging that the college did not accept his application for enrollment last spring because he is Asian-American.

Jian Li '10, who was born in China and now lives in New Jersey, said that while he is not seeking any compensation from Princeton, he hopes to draw attention to discrimination against Asian-American students in the admissions process, which he called an "under-addressed issue."

Li lodged his complaint with the Office for Civil Rights on Aug. 2 under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which protects against discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin. After initially rejecting his claim for lack of evidence, the office reopened the case on Oct. 31 and began its investigation into Princeton's admissions process.

Li said he wants to broaden the discussion about affirmative action in admissions policy and is not interested in transferring to Princeton.

"There is much dialogue about race issues along black and white lines, but it often seems that Asians are ignored," Li said.

Princeton spokeswoman Cass Cliatt said Princeton is working with the Office for Civil Rights to examine the case.

"We consider applicants as individuals and the University does not discriminate against Asian Americans," she said. "It's difficult to admit a class from among thousands of excellent applicants."

Cliatt said Princeton admitted approximately half of all applicants with perfect SAT scores last year.

Yale College Dean of Admissions Jeff Brenzel said Yale's admission policies are oriented to holistic evaluation of candidates, taking into account all aspects of their applications as well the need to assemble a freshman class that is diverse in many different respects.

Li said he scored a perfect 2,400 on the SAT and a combined 2,390 on SAT II subject tests in calculus, chemistry and physics. While the civil rights agency is only using Li's test scores and GPA as evidence in the case, Li said he does not believe these two pieces of information fully represent his admissions profile. In high school, Li said, he was president of the intercultural organization American Field Service, participated in American Legion Boys' State and volunteered for a community service project in Costa Rica.

Bruce Bailey, director of college counseling at the Lakeside School in Seattle, Wash., said the use of perfect SAT scores as evidence of discrimination is not likely to help his case.

"Anyone who knows anything about college admissions knows that scores are only one part of an application," he said. "I'm sure Princeton and Yale can fill their classes up with people with those kinds of scores."

Bailey said the vast majority of students who apply to highly competitive schools like Yale and Princeton are qualified candidates, and thus admissions committees must consider a much wider range of indicators than just grades and test scores.

Li said his case is based on a study of admissions processes published by three Princeton researchers in 2004, which found that while elite universities gave African-American applicants an advantage equivalent to 230 extra SAT points and Hispanic applicants 185 points while making admissions decisions, the schools placed Asian-Americans at a disadvantage equal to a loss of 50 SAT points.

Li said he was aware of the discrimination revealed by the report before he applied to Princeton.

"Before I'd even applied, I had known about this discrimination," Li said. "When I found out I was wait-listed, I had been hoping to get rejected so I would have legal standing to file the complaint."

Two of the three researchers conducted another study on "disaffirmative action" in 2005, which found that Asian applicants to elite institutions would be the "biggest winners" if race were not a factor in admissions. In that scenario, the acceptance rate for Asian students would go up from 17.6 percent to 23.4 percent, the study found.

The San Francisco-based group "Chinese for Affirmative Action" supports the practice of affirmative action in education for all ethnic groups, but Asian-Americans in particular. CAA Executive Director Vincent Pan said Asians are often held up as the "model minority" - as a stereotypically high-achieving ethnic group - to supposedly prove that minorities do not need extra support, but this view is largely a myth.

Pan said his group does not accept the claim of some Asian-Americans, such as Li, that affirmative action hurts their chances of getting into college. On the contrary, Pan said, affirmative action is able to help some Asian groups, like Cambodians and Vietnamese, who often come to the U.S. as immigrants with little education.

The Executive Board of the Asian American Students Association at Princeton said in a statement Monday that the majority of the board thinks Princeton's policy regarding admissions is basically "fair" in its evaluation of students' applications. They said the organization is organizing a forum so that students may discuss the issues of race in college admissions raised by Li's lawsuit.

"This topic may be a delicate issue for some, but we are glad that it has allowed students at Princeton - and perhaps at Yale as well - to think about the merits and flaws of the college admission process," members of the Executive Board wrote in an e-mail.

Megan Chiao, a sophomore and member of the Asian American Students Association at Princeton, said she thinks the majority of students at Princeton are critical of Li's allegations.

"I agree that the issues Jian Li raises about how Asians could be hurt by affirmative action are valid," Chiao said. "But his specific case might not be credible because I don't think Princeton just accepts people based on academic merit."

Some Yale students said that although they do not think Li's suit will be successful, the issues it raises about the admissions process need to be addressed.

Aaron Meng '08, president of the Chinese-American Students' Association, said that although he does not think the case has much merit, he believes it is important to draw attention to the question of whether or not Asian-American applicants are being discriminated against in the admissions process.

Meng said he thinks Asian culture has taught students to place more emphasis on studying than on partaking in creative activities, which may put Asian-American students at a disadvantage in the admissions process. Asian-American students may also be disadvantaged by their approach to college admissions preparation, rather than any discrimination in the process itself, Meng said.

But Lily Dorman-Colby '09 said she thinks discrimination may have occurred in Li's case because college admissions officers strive to create ethnic diversity in spite of the fact that Asian-American students perform better on standardized tests and have higher grades.

"It's getting to be a tricky situation for schools because, in order to represent the country as a whole, they are actually being discriminatory toward Asian Americans," she said.

Alexis Fitts '08 said she was surprised by Li's hope that he would get rejected so he would be able to file the suit.

"It seems like a really bizarre way of applying to college if he was really taking the process seriously," she said.

Since the complaint was made public, Li's case has received national attention from The Wall St. Journal, ABC's "20/20" and the online journal Inside Higher Ed.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996322)





Date: November 15th, 2006 11:19 AM
Author: insane range

Penn troll.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6996341)





Date: November 15th, 2006 3:30 PM
Author: Charcoal Native Candlestick Maker

bump this one more time with another fucking article and i swear to god i will beat the shit out of a random chink today. this will be on your conscience.

the fate of one of your fellow countryman is in your hands. choose your course of action wisely.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6998162)





Date: November 15th, 2006 4:00 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#6998436)





Date: November 16th, 2006 1:14 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Date: November 15th, 2006 3:30 PM

Author: akaRonMexico

bump this one more time with another fucking article and i swear to god i will beat the shit out of a random chink today. this will be on your conscience.

the fate of one of your fellow countryman is in your hands. choose your course of action wisely.

======================================

Jian Li does not want a Princeton acceptance letter. He is at Yale already, the school with lowest admit rate of 8.6% in the country, and he is very happy at Yale and fits in well.

Jian Li is a very courageous young 17 year old Asian American (Chinese American with ESL and immigrant parents) student filing his complaint, just to open the admissions files of Princeton in its admissions process with its use of preferences, especially the race preference resulting in a de facto anti-Asian quota and racial discrimination against Asians, which is an open secret at the private Ivies/Elites. This is illegal according to Artcle VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the courts can deny the hundreds of millions of dollars that these schools receive from the feds each year. They can do this if the OCR decides in Jian's favor. The courts only need one case of this to take action.

Jian must brace for the personal attacks on him, mostly from pundits and racists coming out of the woodwork, because of his noble action, which was not for a Princeton acceptance letter. He wants it to eliminate the alleged discrimination against future Asian American applicants.

Just read some of the racist comments on the xoxohth, and you can understand what Jian Li is in for from the bigots coming out of the woodwork. Also read the comments from the self-serving Asian prestige whores, such as yourself, or Crazybug, aka "Robert Lowenstein" on the xoxohth, who are already in elite schools. However, many of the posters on the xoxohth are only wannabe elite school students and they are just ignorant of the discrimination against Asian American applicants to the Ivies/Elites.

He is actually at tremendous risk, and may have even jepardized his future somewhat by ruffling the feathers of the powers to be and questioning the status quo, that is, it is OK to discriminate against Asian Americans, and stereotype them as not being individuals. It is not OK, no matter how small a group they are, or how poltically insignificant they appear to be. Jian is a pioneer, and refused to sit at the back of the bus. Rosa Parks refused the status quo, and Jian Li has refused the status quo. Just listen to the racists coming out of the woodwork on the xoxohth.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7004666)





Date: November 16th, 2006 2:09 PM
Author: multi-colored hall

lol.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7005016)





Date: November 16th, 2006 2:09 PM
Author: Charcoal Native Candlestick Maker

God bless America. Land that I love.

HTFH and if doesn't go back to china you dirty gook chink.

http://attn-effeminate-asian-dorks-and-geeky-whites.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=527460&mc=1&forum_id=2



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7005018)





Date: November 16th, 2006 7:01 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Bump please.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7007167)





Date: November 16th, 2006 7:38 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

http://www.thecrimson.com/printerfriendly.aspx?ref=515779

Magazine

Fighting for Depth

At Harvard and beyond, superficially positive Asian stereotypes carry harmful—and complex—consequences.

Published On 11/15/2006 8:28:26 PM

By and ALWA A. COOPER

Crimson Staff Writer



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7007513)





Date: November 18th, 2006 9:12 AM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Have you read the Espenshade study from Princeton U’s Dept. of Sociology?

Please click on the commentary on the study by Espenshade at Princeton.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/77I23/index.xml?section=topstories

Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points. Espenshade noted that when one group loses ground, another has to gain -- in this case it would be Asian applicants. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students, with an acceptance rate rising from nearly 18 percent to more than 23 percent. Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants. The authors based their work on models previously developed in a 2004 study where they looked at more than 124,000 elite university applicants' SAT scores, race, sex, citizenship, athletic ability and legacy in combination with their admission decision. This more recent study honed in on more than 45,000 applicants. Both studies are part of the multidimensional National Study of College Experience, which is funded by the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation.

Here is the link to the Princeton study. This is the complete paper from Princeton U., “The Opportunities Cost of Admission Preferences at Elite Universities”, by Espenshade (Chair of Sociology at Princeton) and Chung,

http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf

Asian American applicants are the ones who lose in significant numbers with the use of race preferences in admissions. Whites don't forfeit spaces in any significant numbers for race based AA favoring blacks and Latinos. Asian Americans are being punished and discriminated against in this process. This is independent of the use of the legacy and athletic preference for whites because this study corrected for this. Asian Americans have much lower admit rates based on their race because they are the only non-preferred group in admissions and are discriminated against based on their race alone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7018452)





Date: November 22nd, 2006 12:07 PM
Author: Citrine Corn Cake

more asians should bring suit. obviously Espenshade study (http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/Tje/EspenshadeSSQPtII.pdf) whites don't have much of a claim, for their acceptance rates would not go up (only 0.5%). the race-neutral simulation brings asian acceptance rate up from 18% to 23% (whites are admitted at a rate of 24%!!). why should asians suffer from AA and not whites? Espenshade shows that this 18%~23% differential is equivalent to 50 extra SAT points that asian students must score above their white peers and over 200 points of their black peers. 50 doesn't seem much compared to 200 in absolute terms, but it means that asians must score above 1500 if whites are scoring only 1450 and blacks are scoring below 1300. does this make any sense? is AA a white conspiracy where white colleges pretend to convey a message that they are doing a good deed, when the secret is that the way they accomplish this good deed is by hurting asian kids and at no cost to themselves?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7047782)





Date: November 22nd, 2006 2:53 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Link- actual numbers on black and latino SAT scoring in 2005

http://www.discriminations.us/2006/04/the_diversity_elite.html

The “Diversity” Elite

In the SAT testing program, there were 696 blacks and 1,458 Latino seniors in the class of 2005 who earned combined scores of 1400 or higher, while 36,471 white seniors did.

Please note that the numbers for scoring above 1450 for both blacks and latinos would be MUCH LESS, and closer to the numbers of 2003, since the racial GAP in scoring did not change. Only 192 blacks scored higher than 1450 and 70 above 1500 on the SAT in 2003.

Click on this for verification:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A42808-2003Nov14?language=printer



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7048851)





Date: November 22nd, 2006 2:47 PM
Author: Pale maniacal cruise ship sneaky criminal

Re: Asians affected by race preferences from research paper by Russell Nieli of Princeton U.

What happened to the Asians in this post-60s development was even more

curious. While they certainly weren't either white or European, and the older generations

47

had certainly endured more than a little white hostility and discrimination, they

nevertheless were too successful -- too good in school and at making money -- to be

eligible for special consideration within the white-created preference regime. Hence they

would acquire in the minds of the white penitents something of the status of "honorary

whites." In view of their newly acquired honorary status, the guilty whites could in good

conscience discriminate against Asians in favor of blacks and Hispanics, just as they

discriminated against the members of their own guilty race. Asians, however, were

accorded one modest consolation. Since their honorary white status did not entail

culpability for the whites' racist past, Asian protests against the preference regime were at

least treated with a degree of sympathy and respect by the guilty whites which they

would never accord to similar protests from the members of their own race. White

protests against quotas were often seen to partake of an unseemly lack of shame and

contrition (when not motivated by white racism). Similar protests by Asians were seen

by the white penitents as at least understandable, though not, of course, justified.

If white guilt really is at the heart of much of the enduring support we see for

affirmative action, it suggests that at the elite universities where white guilt is so much in

evidence the policy will be with us for many years to come regardless of the verdict of

social science research. A "catharsis for white guilt about slavery, segregation, and acts

of racism" is not likely to be undone by a regression analysis. For those of us who have

long contended against affirmative action policy, the one hope on the horizon is longterm.

As generations pass and those whose views on race relations were forged by the

upheavals of the 1960s increasingly retire and pass from the academic scene, the

experience of the "archetypical Fall" and the white guilt it produced will fade into ever

more distant memory. Blacks will increasingly be viewed by a new generation of whites,

Asians, Mideasterners and others, simply as people, not as pitiable victims or objects of

expiatory atonement for guilty whites. As Asians assume a more prominent place at elite

colleges and universities, the pull of the meritocratic ideal will become increasingly

strong. And in time affirmative action will come to be viewed as a policy, not a crusade.

And as a policy it will be judged by its merits -- and found deeply wanting.

====================================

This is a fascinating report on the facts which I had known with my own previous reading of the researchers quoted in this paper of about 50 pages.

PLEASE USE THE FOLLOWING LINK for the actual link to the pdf version of the report.

http://www.nas.org/print/pressreleases/hqnas/releas_18oct04.htm

Press Release

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NAS Report Presents Evidence of Need for Colorblind Admissions

Web Site Coordinator, National Association of Scholars (609) 497-2480

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=525613&forum_id=2#7048823)