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what is the biglaw model going to look like in 15 years?
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Date: March 30th, 2023 10:51 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker the boomers are all holding on and they've pulled the ladder up behind them. each and every year, it gets harder for associates to make partner - at my current firm (not biglaw - national L&E firm, but things were going this direction at my biglaw firm), a necessary criterion to make income partner is now that the associate has around 300 hours of "billing" credit - meaning they have at least 300 hours of their own business. a fucking associate. two senior associates who are regarded as superstars here just left because they aren't going to make it this year.
then you have people like me, i've made partner. i'm very very good at what i do, and clients love me. i just don't know how to go out and get clients that are mine, and i brought a bunch of business with me from biglaw, but it isn't enough by itself to get me put up for equity. so i have stalled out. i will leave.
then everyone, it seems, behind me generationally (by that, i mean the zoomers with jewfro haircuts) has NO interest at all in working all that hard. they have figured out that firms are flame and a boomer scam and most of them do what they need to do to get satisfactory reviews and not get fired, and they will eventually leave.
how are firms going to survive what appears to me to be a generational culture shift where the workers (associates) have figured out that working your ass off and taking shit from jews isn't something that is good to do. i wonder if firms are even thinking about this. |
Date: March 30th, 2023 10:54 AM Author: Hairraiser Fanboi Coldplay Fan Yeah tranny sucking coke fiends not getting enough shekels is a big problem but I think the world will chug along fine for at least a little bit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117720) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:09 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker this has become a recurring problem since we got a lot of cross pollination with stormfront, but you aren't understanding the thread. the thread was not about "the world" in general, but large law firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117800) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:10 AM Author: motley slimy stage boistinker the trailer park crew is a real scourge otb (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117811) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:11 AM Author: Floppy Stage Philosopher-king Because the eunuch crew is doing such a great job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117818) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:13 AM Author: motley slimy stage boistinker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117827) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:20 AM Author: 180 idea he suggested home We should institute an entrance exam and make everyone reapply for their logins and monikers. We could dumb it down for the TTT/Non-T14 bros and just make it stuff you would know if you attended law school anywhere for a couple semesters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117855) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:36 AM Author: Floppy Stage Philosopher-king (2x Obama voter that married a gook) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117923) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 1:40 AM Author: 180 idea he suggested home (Gay midget cripple who believes he’s “superior”) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46121979) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 5:28 PM Author: Swashbuckling puce rehab fortuitous meteor 180 idea (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46119672) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 5:28 PM Author: Swashbuckling puce rehab fortuitous meteor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46119670) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:00 AM Author: wonderful regret nursing home I'm not a lawyer. What prevents associates with 5-7 years of experience under their belts from setting up their own specialized boutiques? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117755) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:16 AM Author: ruby hospital big company with a lot (or even a little) on the line is not going to go with some random dipshit
obv people do leave to form smaller firms but their clients change |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:28 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker nothing, but lawyers are very risk averse and are unlikely to do it for that reason alone. it's also generally hard to transition a big firm practice to small law. it's done, but corporations generally want an actual law firm representing them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117891) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:07 AM Author: greedy provocative senate reading party What are the best practice areas for doing something like this—I.e., going from firm to starting own boutique (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46121637) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:00 AM Author: crimson vibrant cruise ship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117756) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:14 AM Author: flirting step-uncle's house mother At some top firms (V25), there is a mandatory retirement policy at age 60 or so - so your fears wrt boomers pulling up the ladder and holding on for dear life doesn't ring true in all instances.
Some of those same firms have a trial period for income partnership (which is all but assured if you stick around) before the vote for equity partnership takes place where the "partner" will have an opportunity to prove themselves as deserving of the ultimate promotion. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:30 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker the age requirement was in place at my firm (NOT a v25 - i was at a vault 65 or so firm) and they ignored it for booomers with huge books who felt like staying around. total joke.
the way it was at my biglaw firm and now at the L&E firm is that it's just 100% based on your "billable attorney" hours, ie, your book of business. that's all that matters.
i think at truly elite firms, that's not the way it works at all. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:20 PM Author: flirting step-uncle's house mother At the firm I was alluding to in my original post, I know firsthand that a partner who founded one of the most profitable groups at the firm had reached "senior status" and was salty because the firm de-equitized them and was essentially showing them the door. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118118) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:33 PM Author: Coral aromatic point This is was less common than it used to be. Not sure any firms actually have this as a hard requirement anymore for partners with big books. Even Cravath has exceptions to mandatory retirement (and now to lockstep comp) after Kirkland etc. stole too many partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118172) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:00 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker at my middling shithouse biglaw firm, i worked for a rainmaker who has (reportedly) 10-12 million in business. he hit 65 years old and i heard what they did was de-equitize him but put him on a deal where he's still making $3 million or whatever, but instead of it being at risk it's guaranteed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118344) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:15 AM Author: Hot maniacal base dopamine Is 300 hours of your own biz really too much to ask? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117835) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:17 AM Author: motley slimy stage boistinker JUST DO find large companies with unionized labor forces who need help w negotiations and don't already have a lawyer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117848) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:23 AM Author: ruby hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117867) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:26 AM Author: zombie-like office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117882) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:33 PM Author: Submissive newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118473) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:31 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker keep in mind that these firms essentially all have rules in place that prohibit associates from independently doing shit, because everything has to be supervised.
so i'm not really sure how associates are supposed to land clients. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:11 PM Author: Hot maniacal base dopamine Do you ever have a case where you kick the other her side's ass and they call you next time they have an issue? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118078) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:24 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker what do i have to do with this subthread? and yes i do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118132) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 4:46 PM Author: cobalt state Not hard to do if you are outgoing and can read your environment to find out where to get business. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46119527) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:18 AM Author: arousing filthpig quadroon EY will ram through its spin-off transaction. They’ve been giving Boomer/Gen X partners the hard sell on “generational wealth” for awhile now and in the next few weeks will hammer out the final deal. The other B4 will see the opportunity to cash in and follow suit.
Following an uncomfortable summer in the beach towns and at the country clubs with lowly accountants suddenly having more money, the ladder-pulling Big Law partners will see the need to complete their work and complete the transformation of law from a profession into a business. They’ll band together and make it allowable for law firm equity to be held by non lawyers. Banks and PE will buy, strip mine, and/or absorb the big firms that they use and will turn the rest of the legal industry into Dollar General. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:23 AM Author: motley slimy stage boistinker seems cr. the current law firm model of labor (in theory) having control over labor is entirely enforced by law. 'litigation funding' is already chipping away at this. capital will have its day unless legislators continue to lobby for lawyers, who aren't the nicest/most sympathetic guys (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117868) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:32 AM Author: arousing filthpig quadroon I’d place a gigantic wager on this outcome by going back into a law firm, but the timeline is uncertain. There is active conflict between the last of the aging Boomers who have been in productivity decline for quite some time and the Xers and elder Millennials who are ascendant.
My best guess is the accounting firms work through this transformation over the next 5-10 years and the law firms, given the legal changes required, are closer to 10+ years out from transforming. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:34 AM Author: 180 idea he suggested home The timeline will be shorter and it will all be driven by the software capabilities getting far enough along. These natural language bots are obviously a massive accelerant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117915) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:28 AM Author: zombie-like office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117890) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:28 AM Author: 180 idea he suggested home The set up was spot on but your conclusion is retarded. F500 companies won’t buy a Dollar General law firm’s services. The biggest differentiator will be which firms and partners can figure out how to transform their practices from billable hour based to consulting style outcome based engagements. There will be a lot more emphasis on developing proprietary technology eg a bot you run to analyze a company’s entire contracts database and pull up the 100 worst agreements and the median acceptable positions and then writing updated playbooks and contracts intake tools that can quickly analyze a counterparty’s turn of a document and provide a scoring and analysis. The job will become pushing updates based on changes in the law every quarter (or month? Or week?) that are retrospective and highlight where a change in policy brings an existing agreement out of compliance. Same thing for any company that fends off hundreds of similar lawsuits/complaints every year. But for the rest of our careers implementing and maintaining systems like this will be expensive and complex and big 4 firms are the perfect candidates to sell it to big companies and hire partners will client skills to sell and relationship manage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117893) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:35 AM Author: motley slimy stage boistinker "F500 companies won't buy office equipment from companies that make things in China", he explained, patiently. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117917) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:00 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home You are smart enough to think of some differences between lawyers and office supplies I bet. It is true that the unique insights and expertise of the Scranton branch’s paper salesman were killed off by globalization, but that’s a little different than the lawyer who negotiates all your mid market contracts or handles your docket of consumer complaints and claims. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118342) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:58 PM Author: motley slimy stage boistinker whoa, yet another cost with negligible tangible added value that could be handled by high school graduates or foreigners or, I don't know, a regular lawyer who's working for less money with less career mobility with the same esteemed branding, except privately owned? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118840) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:40 AM Author: arousing filthpig quadroon My conclusion was a bit glib and perfunctory. I didn’t mean financial services, F500s and big transactions would get sent to a Dollar General model. I think that small and regional firms and low-level work could get pushed into that model and that the industry could face consolidation along those lines.
I think the big firms and their brand value might be retained, but that they’ll be held captive by banks etc. who would sell their services alongside their other financial products and services. Imagine Goldman buying SullCrom, taking a discount on their own work, and then selling the rest of the billable capacity to clients alongside GS’s other services.
And I think you’re absolutely right that if the lines between consulting and law erode, the B4 will clean up exactly as you’ve described. I’ve never seen a more relentless sales machine or a levered personell business model quite like a B4 firm. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:58 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home Fully agreed that more low stakes and rote work is going to vanish and that will pwn smaller firms and young lawyers. Thread topic is the change to the biglaw model and that’s going to be fully gobbled up by Big 4 bc lawyers are horrible, unimaginative business people and also risk averse pussies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118330) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:15 PM Author: Spectacular center Lol have u worked with a big 4 on a Deal before? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118404) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:18 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home Yes of course. The point isn’t whether they are useful or efficient. The point is whether hiring them to purportedly solve a problem will continue to be something that execs at F500 companies do to insulate themselves when they are afraid to make a decision. Increasingly various legal inputs will feature in those conversations and GCs will be expected to be able to provide those input and put on the same show when they present to the C Suite and senior exec leadership about work their departments are doing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118645) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 6:15 AM Author: odious balding parlor What are you smoking? Cravath and S&C aren’t going to get “gobbled up” by the big 4. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46122152) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:19 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home They won’t be first (I would guess it’s the 4000 lawyer TTTs like DLA Piper that are raided first) but eventually firms will bleed talent that big 4 will poach, and client preferences will provide further inducement to move assuming big firms won’t just completely overhaul their core business model rapidly. But if and when F500 customers reach a tipping point of pushing back on/rejecting billable hour fee arrangements then any firm that hasn’t adapted will be fucked and it could definitely be a husk of cravath or S&C or another super prestigious firm brand that would be in this position one day. That wouldn’t happen for decades, but could easily happen within our lifetimes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46123144) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 3:52 PM Author: odious balding parlor This is a fucking dweebish fantasy by some in-house dork. Cravath litigators aren't going to be induced to work with shit tier big 4 accounting firms. F500s are *always* going to want the "best of the best" to deal with significant matters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124277) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 4:30 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home (MAF DLA Piper Of Counsel) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124467) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:32 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker i'm 100% in favor of this because i've decided to find an exit ramp out of law firms. i want to see the whole system burn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117908) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:25 PM Author: Thirsty masturbator your prediction about law firm ownership may come true but you're misinformed about EY. that transaction is very much on the ropes and likely won't happen. Big 4 accounting firms are too massive on a global scale and complex to split up like this. this type of spin off might work better with law firms, which are much, much, much smaller and less complex (i.e., only one business line, legal services) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118138) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 6:16 AM Author: odious balding parlor He’s not correct about anything. Highly profitable V50 firms aren’t going to let themselves be bought out by accounting firms even if it were allowed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46122154) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 3:55 PM Author: Thirsty masturbator OP is totally wrong about the EY connection. A that transaction is failing as we speak (being rejected by the US firm) so no the accountants won't have more money as soon as this summer. B even if did go through those payouts wouldn't happen for years, and for the people going to the spun out company, literally for 5-10 years given lockup periods. C the EY transaction is a spin of its consulting division, so any suggestion that this a Big 4 might buy a law firm is retardedly wrong. this is just all retardedly wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124300) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:27 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge Why does a law firm need outside capital? What's the case for an investor? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118144) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:38 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker some of these firms are cash cows, man.
aren't some of the magic circle firms in the UK publicly traded? |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 6:17 AM Author: odious balding parlor Exactly. Typical stupid XO analysis. “This firm that generates $3b in pure profit a year for its owners of gonna sell itself to a dreary accounting firm … because.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46122156) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:19 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home To build a competitive software product/automation platform and hire sales people, but that won’t happen until big 4 is already drinking many firms milkshakes. The bigger change would be when big 4 gets into the market and starts competing directly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46123143) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:36 AM Author: passionate locale elastic band An Asian 7 with big fake tits and resting bitch face (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117925) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:50 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge You're being pessimistic. There are plenty of people making partner at non-super elite firms and pullups down seven figures immediately or within 2-3 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46117962) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 11:58 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker i dunno - it seems like the trend has been to make it harder and harder for people to make partner. at the same time, i think the pool of people who want to bother with the partner thing is shrinking and i feel like firms aren't keyed in to that and they have no idea they're making it harder to attain something that people increasingly don't want. so they're repelling the people who do want it by placing hoops and landmines all over the place, and the others left have no intention of sticking around.
i could be wrong, because all i have to go on is my own experience at two firms. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:00 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge Haven't the V50 partner classes been pretty robust these last few years? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118021) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:02 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker have they? i know that at my biglaw firm (again, v65ish) i was hearing that the year after i made it, they were REALLY clamping down on the requirements - vetting whether there was a real business case, whether the associate had any business, etc. and they're doing that at my current firm (a shithouse national L&E firm).
i suspect my experience is typical of firms generally, but again i could be wrong. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:10 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge To pick a random good but not super elite firm, Ropes & Gray made 21 partners in 2022. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118074) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:27 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker my guess would be that they put those 21 people through insane levels of scrutiny that they wouldn't have put those 21 people through 10-15 years ago.
i don't think this has started to really have an effect yet. they are clamping down on the requirements and thus far they have more people who want to be partner than they have partner slots. but i think that's going to change, and them making it harder and harder to make partner (and thus causing people who are grinders but not really salespeople to say fuck it and go in house) may be something they look back on with regret about a decade from now. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:39 PM Author: Honey-headed dragon indirect expression why would financial firms want to own a law firm instead of just gutting it and bringing the elements they need in house? profits for biglaw are a rounding error for the big guys (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118221) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:50 PM Author: Gold house old irish cottage Here are some premises:
1. There are still many clients willing to pay top dollar for biglaw advice. 2. These clients are mostly owned by boomer partners 3. Boomers will die or retire at some point 4. After boomers die, client will still want same advice and will need a new relationship partner who gets credit - often at same firm for continuity.
In the interim, younger generations have to suck a lot of boomer cock to get in position and start sharing client credit. If you don’t see this happening in your firm you are very autistic. The people who make partner are the ones that the boomers see as successors.
Yes boomers rose a rising tide of growth and prosperity where this was easier for them. Stop whining and start taking their clients. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 12:53 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge Right. There are tons of big swinging dick Biglaw relationship partners in their late 40s, early 50s. Those people aren't boomers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118305) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:07 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker tons? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118370) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:18 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge I'd say so. In my experience, boomers are getting a bit sidelined in "elder statesman" roles. A lot of the really important partners are older gen x. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118418) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:22 PM Author: Gold house old irish cottage Boomers are damn old and unlike our government, most law firms do not let 70-80 year olds hog the spotlight. I don’t like bootlicking 30-50 year old law firm partners either, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend they don’t exist. There is a weird line of millennial complaint: “I should inherit someone’s 7-figure job because I went to the right school, am generally smart polite and competent, and billed enough hours, even though I am autistic and refuse to do the things necessary to get what I allegedly want in the system in which I operate.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118425) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:43 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker this is stupid. you act as though someone taking issue with firms being an eat what you kill pyramid scheme = someone demanding $1 million a year for nothing.
i think it's a mistake for the big rainmakers not to share SOME of that money with the people who are managing the clients and trying the cases, etc. the rainmakers don't want to spend their time doing that (in many cases, they don't actually even have the skillset to - they're mostly schmoozers). the current way of doing things has worked historically, but i feel we may be getting to a tipping point where things change. but maybe not though. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:53 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge I don't mean to question your experience, and it sounds like you've had a shitty one, but there are still firms that nobody would describe as elite that make plenty of service partners every year and pay pretty much all of them seven figures within a few years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118542) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:05 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker OUT these firms that aren't elite where service partners with no business are making seven figures after a few years.
also, what you said is completely nonresponsive to what i said. what does that have to do with anything? |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:07 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge I guess I'm not sure what you're saying? You seemed to think the rainmakers weren't sharing, but service partners making seven figures seems like sharing to me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118603) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:12 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker wait, what firms are paying service partners seven figures? their hourly rates would have to be in the thousands for that to make business sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118623) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:17 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge What do you think hourly rates are these days? Senior associates are billed out at over $1000/hour. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118639) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:18 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker so i now have to ask what your definition of an elite vs nonelite firm is. senior associates at DLA piper are not being billed out at a grand an hour. or christ, i hope they aren't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118646) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:21 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge I think they probably are, although I don't have personal knowledge of that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118663) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:22 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker what in the fuck man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118669) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:51 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone drab indian lodge 🤷♂️
Billing rates have gone way up. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:06 PM Author: Gold house old irish cottage That’s not what I’m saying. People in your position are demanding $1M/year for doing a good job on the work and servicing the client without pushing into rainmaker status. The going rate is $500k. If you don’t like it, you have to either take a chance on starting your own firm or play the politics to get more credit, either by playing nicely with boomers so they anoint you heir or by teaming up with other younger partners and clients to push boomers aside. This is just how it works in a partnership-based service business. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118596) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:15 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker ljl, i would be very happy with $500k. i'm being paid low 300s. this is about what i was making as a fifth year partner at a biglaw firm i won't name (rhymes with baker hostetler). i was actually making $350k there but had more tax liability because of the way the firm is set up.
i was one of a number of partners in my group in the same spot - service partner for a huge rainmaker who doesn't really do any work other than calls with clients and trying to get new clients.
i 100% agree you shouldn't expect high six figures or more just because you manage the client and do great work. but they really should be valuing people like me beyond 1/3 of the money the firm collects on us. there are a good number of people like me, and if everyone follows my lead, firms are in for some bad times. |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:00 AM Author: Gold house old irish cottage How are you making low 300s as an allegedly competent mid-career service partner? Senior associates make 400+. You should ask for more money now and then switch jobs next time the market is decent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46121617) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:29 AM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker You would be surprised at how many vault ranked biglaw firms do not pay lockstep. My firm paid market to first years and everything after that was black box, ie, shit pure shit. I think my pay was fairly typical for partners without business, and I was in DC and not some podunk satellite office. And while I’m not dumb enough to out my firm, I will say this: I was a partner at baker hostetler. I was making 350 there, in my fifth year as a partner.
The firm I’m at now is a labor and employment firm, which is miles away from any biglaw firm that pays associates on a lockstep scale. That’s totally irrelevant to this shithole. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:04 PM Author: 180 idea he suggested home The clients aren’t the same people either (they also have their own boomer leadership that is transitioning out of power) and the expectations of the peer aged elder Gen X-elder millennial successors will determine how the market changes. In general these are people who made their careers by being more tech savvy and data fluent than the boomers and secured their boomer bootlicking positions by feeding the boomers those answers. Guaranteed all of us will need to get much better at constructing and presenting dashboards and translating legal advice and insights into KPIs and the like that will resonate with these brown-nosed strivers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118359) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:09 PM Author: fear-inspiring rigor plaza Ugh. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118380) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:08 PM Author: fear-inspiring rigor plaza I am for you: your firm doesn’t pay enough to make the bullshit worth it. You make six figures less than biglaw senior associates yet you actually know stuff. Who wants to sacrifice ages 25-38 when the payoff is $300k/year? That’s just not enough even when you get outside of the highest COL areas. When it’s $1-2M or more, the math is different. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118376) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 1:38 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker this is all correct, although i really don't kill myself with hours. i actually work like 45-50 hours a week (sometimes far less). but it is stressful and i'm starting not to enjoy it, and 300k isn't enough to keep me doing something i no longer feel like doing.
even if i woke up in the morning dreading my job and life, i'd have to consider staying through it for a decade or so if i were making $600k or more. easier to leave at my pay.
of course, i will likely be leaving for a govt job paying 100-175k or in house paying 200-250k. but i'm assuming i won't completely hate those jobs. more importantly, i feel like i can't function here anymore because i feel like i was lied to and left BIGLOL to come here for some shit that hasn't panned out. i'm kind of over this bullshit place. |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 5:29 PM Author: talented unholy church Lawyers are trash. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46119675) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 6:23 AM Author: odious balding parlor Get psychiatric help. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46122163) |
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Date: March 30th, 2023 2:02 PM Author: fiercely-loyal heaven striped hyena No clue but I'm riding this bitch to the bottom (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46118574) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 6:23 AM Author: odious balding parlor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46122164) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:02 AM Author: Aphrodisiac Theater Wagecucks Want to start a law firm with me? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46121620) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 12:15 AM Author: ivory boyish trailer park jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46121680) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 6:23 AM Author: sexy multi-billionaire Making 1m/ year isn’t that appealing if you don’t have plans to stack that cash and gtfo at age 50 or so
I can’t figure out these boomers who won’t hang it up. They are paying off their ex wives or something ? Just hard wired to work all the time, can’t even enjoy a vacation because they’re emailing about work shit.
Never did biglaw, but am in a practice area where we cross paths with a lot of biglawyers (and have posted here for many years) so I can only surmise what it’s like from the outside . |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 1:07 PM Author: soggy curious field You’re failing to see the bigger picture.
Biglaw is part of a much bigger scheme by banks, consultants, accountants, all sorts of other industries to siphon fees off M&A, cap markets, major litigation, corporate reorgs, bankruptcies, etc. as long as these things exist (and it will), biglaw will be a integral part of it.
Who do you think profits off the failure of SVB, credit suisse?
Biglaw will not fail because it is a small part of a much bigger system all designed to scratch one another’s backs. |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 3:46 PM Author: heady site incredibly autistic thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124250) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 3:58 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker (Florida Surgeon General Joseph A. Ladapo) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124312) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 4:14 PM Author: heady site it isn't necessarily your fault, but some of those subthreads up there are so drenched with aspergers that I assure you many of you have nothing to worry about in terms of biglaw partnership (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124395) |
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Date: March 31st, 2023 4:36 PM Author: abnormal pistol weed whacker tell us more how about feel about this pressing issue, Florida Surgeon General Joseph A. Ladapo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5315593&forum_id=2#46124500) |