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Interesting blog discussion on enforcing exam word limits

Pretty interesting discussion; a lot more issues involved in...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
Seems pretty straight-forward. Stop at the word limit.
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
That would seem to encourage more rule breaking though.
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
1. I don't see how. 2. I don't see why that would even ...
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
Well, if you know the prof will stop reading at word 250, yo...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
"Well, if you know the prof will stop reading at word 2...
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
Students don't know whether it will be strictly enforced in ...
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
Students don't know whether GTO's penalty will be enforced e...
cerebral lilac space partner
  12/19/06
Well, if it's a 24 hour takehome you have a shitload of time...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
It's not this profs job to subsidize other prof's faggotry.
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
I'm not sure I understand your point here whatsoever.
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
Other profs reading after 250 words is not his concern.
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying here. I'm wr...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
The proposal of take the grade and divide by the relative am...
Cream Round Eye Sex Offender
  12/19/06
The stuff about not being announced in advance seems silly; ...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
If there's no negative to them going over (from the profs st...
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
Presumably it's to prevent people from going over in the fir...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
Right, but it's not hurting this prof, it is only helping ot...
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
Ok. What about the other students that broke the word limit...
Cream Round Eye Sex Offender
  12/19/06
I don't see why those people shouldn't be punished also. May...
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
Well, then he has to do his own word count on every essay. ...
Cream Round Eye Sex Offender
  12/19/06
If a worthwhile portion of his answer is after the word limi...
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
Spoken like someone who has never taken a law school exam.
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
If the student knows this is going to happen, he can write h...
Cream Round Eye Sex Offender
  12/19/06
Well, you've answered 1, but haven't answered 2. If the p...
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
Wasting his time and not reading answers he should've had in...
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
The problem is that he's going to have to waste his time cou...
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
"That would seem to encourage more rule breaking though...
cerebral lilac space partner
  12/19/06
It's unfair to people who chose to follow the stated rules.
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
How does that hurt those that follow the rules?
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
Take a position on this: There is certainty of rule enforcem...
cerebral lilac space partner
  12/19/06
People suggesting Fs need to be lynched.
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
Why?
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
The punishment of not reading after 250 is harsh enough.
Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria
  12/19/06
wgwag
Irradiated Genital Piercing
  12/19/06
scroll to the last comment.
Mauve bearded location masturbator
  12/19/06
Heh.
Mint Curious Heaven
  12/19/06
"I would sometimes flaunt the rule." FLOUT, you...
cerebral lilac space partner
  12/19/06
Maybe he made nice pretty jewelry out of the clippings.
Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian
  12/19/06
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/flaunt "2 : to treat c...
rose church building
  12/19/06
"If you use it, however, you should be aware that many ...
cerebral lilac space partner
  12/19/06
That's not interesting at all.
doobsian son of senegal box office
  12/19/06


Poast new message in this thread





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:23 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Pretty interesting discussion; a lot more issues involved in this thing than I imagined.

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2006/12/enforcing_word_.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256067)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:28 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

Seems pretty straight-forward. Stop at the word limit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256087)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:31 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

That would seem to encourage more rule breaking though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256108)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:32 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

1. I don't see how.

2. I don't see why that would even be a problem.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256111)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:34 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Well, if you know the prof will stop reading at word 250, you can write a self-contained 250 word answer, and then throw in a few other paragraphs that go into the less important issues that you couldn't fit in 250 words.

If the prof enforces the word limit and stops reading at wod 250, you're no worse off than you were before.

If the prof disregards the word limit or doesn't cut off the grading exactly at word 250, you just gained a windfall.

It seems that the proper way to do it is to cut off off reading at 250 words, and in addition to that impose a penalty for not following the rules.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256125)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:36 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

"Well, if you know the prof will stop reading at word 250, you can write a self-contained 250 word answer, and then throw in a few other paragraphs that go into the less important issues that you couldn't fit in 250 words."

How is this beneficial? The less important issues don't get read and time wasted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256138)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:38 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

Students don't know whether it will be strictly enforced in advance. There's no loss other than the time spent, but there is a signficant potential gain.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256144)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:54 AM
Author: cerebral lilac space partner

Students don't know whether GTO's penalty will be enforced either. That's why GTO's argument makes so little sense. He seems to think it's ok to claim uncertainty with respect to the cut-off, but it's not ok to claim uncertainty with the imposition of a penalty.

There's abso-fucking-lutely no reaason to think that's a reasonable conclusion.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256214)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:39 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Well, if it's a 24 hour takehome you have a shitload of time at your disposal to waste.

Also you're assuming that the prof will stop at word 250. As mentioned in the comments to that blog post, not all profs actually do that. Basically, by going over the word limit you lose nothing at worst and get a windfall at best.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256149)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:39 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

It's not this profs job to subsidize other prof's faggotry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256153)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:40 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

I'm not sure I understand your point here whatsoever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256159)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:41 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

Other profs reading after 250 words is not his concern.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256161)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:43 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying here. I'm writing from the student's perspective, not the prof's. If the student knows the only punishment a prof will give for going over the word limit is not read the words after word #250, the student has a very strong incentive to break the rules and write an answer greater than 250 words.

Worst case scenario: student gains nothing and loses nothing, since the professor just stops reading after word 250.

Best case scenario: the prof ignores his own stated word limit, reads the whole ansewr (or reads past word 250), and the student gets a higher grade.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256170)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:46 AM
Author: Cream Round Eye Sex Offender

The proposal of take the grade and divide by the relative amount word limit was exceeded has the defect of efficient breach also. Any other penalty seems Draconian because it was not announced in advance. OH GNOES! What's the dood to do?!?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256182)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:49 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

The stuff about not being announced in advance seems silly; the guy was warned about the word limit and chose to break it anyway, so he deserves a punishment.

It seems the best thing to do is to stop reading after the word limit, and then provide an additional penalty to discourage efficient breach.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256191)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:51 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

If there's no negative to them going over (from the profs standpoint), I'm not sure why there's a need to impose a penalty.

I think this was :D's point. Not imposing a penalty doesn't hurt this particular prof, but may hurt other profs (by making their systesm unfair if they choose to count over 250).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256197)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:52 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Presumably it's to prevent people from going over in the first place (if they know they can't benefit from efficient breach, but would actually suffer, they won't do it).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256201)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:53 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

Right, but it's not hurting this prof, it is only helping other profs.

See my edit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256206)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:51 AM
Author: Cream Round Eye Sex Offender

Ok. What about the other students that broke the word limit by a significantly less egregious amount. Doesn't that just encourage simply a prudent level of cheating?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256199)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:53 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

I don't see why those people shouldn't be punished also. Maybe he could just make the punishment be a factor of the # of words went over (in addition to not grading anything past word 250).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256205)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:54 AM
Author: Cream Round Eye Sex Offender

Well, then he has to do his own word count on every essay. Which he probably should do. Fuck. I hope my Energy Law prof doesn't do that.

Point is: he has to do a wordcount on everyone (or at least the essays that are anywhere close to the limit). If he only does a wordcount on obvious violators, that isn't fair. He's probably not going to take the time to do a wordcount on everyone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256211)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:47 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

If a worthwhile portion of his answer is after the word limit, which is almost definitely, he loses points the 250 word person doesn't.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256187)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:49 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Spoken like someone who has never taken a law school exam.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256193)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:49 AM
Author: Cream Round Eye Sex Offender

If the student knows this is going to happen, he can write his full 250 words answer. Then, during hours 13 and 14 when he's run out of creative steam, he raise the flag on all his BS answers and see if anyone salutes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256194)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:37 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

Well, you've answered 1, but haven't answered 2.

If the prof cuts off at 250, no harm no foul, unless you consider having the prof count words a harm. I assume this would be a problem regardless, though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256142)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:38 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

Wasting his time and not reading answers he should've had inside of 250 words is punishment enough, geez.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256146)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:39 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

The problem is that he's going to have to waste his time counting to 250 as it is, regardless of whether they go over.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256151)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:52 AM
Author: cerebral lilac space partner

"That would seem to encourage more rule breaking though."

Who cares? They can waste all the time they want.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256203)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:53 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

It's unfair to people who chose to follow the stated rules.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256207)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:55 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

How does that hurt those that follow the rules?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256217)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:59 AM
Author: cerebral lilac space partner

Take a position on this: There is certainty of rule enforcement (penalty or not).



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256230)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:29 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

People suggesting Fs need to be lynched.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256094)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:30 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Why?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256107)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:35 AM
Author: Motley Purple Clown School Cafeteria

The punishment of not reading after 250 is harsh enough.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256131)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:25 AM
Author: Irradiated Genital Piercing

wgwag

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256072)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:35 AM
Author: Mauve bearded location masturbator

scroll to the last comment.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256133)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:40 AM
Author: Mint Curious Heaven

Heh.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256154)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:45 AM
Author: cerebral lilac space partner

"I would sometimes flaunt the rule."

FLOUT, you fucking retard.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256176)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:46 AM
Author: Heady charcoal bawdyhouse persian

Maybe he made nice pretty jewelry out of the clippings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256179)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:48 AM
Author: rose church building

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/flaunt

"2 : to treat contemptuously <flaunted the rules -- Louis Untermeyer>"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256189)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:51 AM
Author: cerebral lilac space partner

"If you use it, however, you should be aware that many people will consider it a mistake."

Damn straight.

http://www.answers.com/flaunt&r=67

Usage Problem. To show contempt for; scorn.

...This usage is still widely seen as erroneous and is best avoided.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256198)





Date: December 19th, 2006 2:54 AM
Author: doobsian son of senegal box office

That's not interesting at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=548963&forum_id=2#7256213)