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Billy Corgan calls (Them) out for intentionally destroying rock music
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:22 PM Author: supple mother Billy Corgan has a theory as to why rock music hasn’t been as prevalent in mainstream culture in the 21st century as it was in the ’70s, ’80s, and early ’90s. The Smashing Pumpkins frontman believes that rock was “purposely dialed down” beginning in the late ’90s.
On the latest episode of his own podcast, The Magnificent Others, Corgan discussed the state of rock music with his guest, writer and cultural commentator Conrad Flynn.
“I think, and I will say it overtly, I think that rock has been purposely dialed down in the culture,” began Corgan. “Again, this gets ‘wizard behind the curtain,’ right? Somebody’s gonna say, ‘Well, how do you know who was the wizard behind the curtain?’ All I know is I saw the gravity shift.”
He continued, “If you were at MTV or around MTV in 1997 or 1998, suddenly they decided rock was out when rock was still very, very high up in the thing. And it was replaced by rap… Their standards and practices immediately shifted, so now that things that weren’t allowed were suddenly allowed. People were waving guns. Some people assert that the CIA was involved in all that. Again, above my pay grade, but I saw it happen. I did witness it happen.”
https://consequence.net/2026/03/billy-corgan-rock-music-purposely-dialed-down/
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:22 PM Author: wild talented electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49723507) |
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:31 PM Author: Startled avocado affirmative action some merit there. Its weird how rock was just removed from mainstream culture. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49723540) |
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:32 PM Author: contagious angry parlor international law enforcement agency It was Boomers killing Grunge because it was Cool and made them look really lame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49723550) |
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:40 PM Author: supple mother I actually think grunge was a huge problem. It destroyed the confident white male mystique. we went from bandanaed Axl Rose wearing a bullet proof vest on stage and fucking models to kurt cobain complaining about everything while wearing a dress. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49723586) |
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:43 PM Author: contagious angry parlor international law enforcement agency He was damn right to complain imo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49723594) |
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Date: March 7th, 2026 1:42 PM Author: shimmering athletic conference incel probably some truth to this but where was rock really going at that point
im sure he remembers what he was doing in '97. he released "eye" on the lost highway soundtrack which is a song he was intending to have shaq(not flame) rap on before david lynch told corgan that "tear"(which ended up on the adore album) wouldnt work for the movie |
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Date: March 10th, 2026 1:23 PM Author: sienna house pervert Frances Stonor Saunders’ 1999 book The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters (originally published in the UK as Who Paid the Piper?) reveals how the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) covertly funded cultural initiatives in Western Europe and the U.S. from the late 1940s to the 1960s to counter Soviet influence during the Cold War.
The CIA established the Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF) in 1947 as a front organization to sponsor art exhibitions, literary journals (like Encounter and Partisan Review), concerts, and film adaptations (e.g., Animal Farm, 1984). Funds were channeled through philanthropic foundations like the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations to conceal the CIA’s role, creating a "long leash" strategy to distance the Agency from artists and intellectuals. The campaign aimed to promote American cultural values—especially freedom of expression—by supporting movements like Abstract Expressionism, which was portrayed as the antithesis of Soviet socialist realism. Saunders argues that many prominent figures, including George Orwell, Jackson Pollock, Hannah Arendt, Bertrand Russell, and Arthur Schlesinger Jr., were either unknowingly or knowingly involved in this effort, raising ethical questions about intellectual autonomy. The book sparked significant debate: praised by critics like Edward Said as a "major work of investigative history," it was also challenged for its narrative style and sourcing, particularly regarding the extent of CIA infiltration. The CIA’s cultural program was exposed in 1967, leading to the CCF’s collapse. Saunders suggests the Agency allowed its exposure, possibly because the campaign had served its purpose. The book remains a landmark in Cold War historiography, highlighting the blurred line between state power and cultural freedom |
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Date: March 10th, 2026 1:41 PM Author: Chocolate Dashing Principal's Office Turdskin it's weird how you can go back to any given month of high school and listen to the top 40 and recognize almost all of the songs i don't even know if they have a top 40 in the 21st century, but i wonder if even 10 songs in any given month are recognizable? |
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Date: March 10th, 2026 2:13 PM Author: Disgusting university therapy I’m not convinced that radio/MTV force-meming of Goo Goo Dolls or Sheryl Crow was a superior system of music discovery. You can now listen to tons of good old indie stuff that you previously had to live near a good college station to hear, or even more esoteric stuff if you prefer. If you want anthemic radio ballads that is still a business for Ed Sheeran, or you can be a boomer and listen to 90s rock radio until you die. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49732094) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 1:45 PM Author: Chocolate Dashing Principal's Office Turdskin you have a point, but culture benefited from the commonality of force memed music (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49734814) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 2:12 PM Author: big mauve theater codepig it's obviously the internet/Napster that caused all of this. no one who listens to rock music was going to buy a MTV forcememed band's CD for $12.99 when they can download every popular rock song ever made for free. the only ppl left to watch MTV videos and buy CDs were kids and retarded minorities who listen to rap/pop slop.
Corgan is prob just butthurt he can't print money in perpetuity the way ppl like the Rolling Stones and other boomer/early gen-x bands can. |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 2:19 PM Author: Cheese-eating Theatre This is much closer to the truth than what Corgan is saying. I would add "listen to the radio" to watch MTV and buy CDs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49734923) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 2:21 PM Author: big mauve theater codepig i still listen to the radio. haven't bought a CD for myself in 20+ years tho. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49734935) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 3:09 PM Author: shimmering athletic conference incel he's butthurt but probably more to do with being in denial about the albums he made after '98.
the reason they're irrelevant isn't because MTV preferred hip-hop or whatever. it's because they just suck |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 3:32 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode This is 100% accurate. Billy fell off a cliff artistically after 'Adore', which was even a questionable offering after the quality of LP2 and 3, and he has always been super butthurt about it. There are so many interviews where he bitches about fans who come up to him and go Billy, I really like 1979 but I don't care for the other stuff. It drives him insane. The irony is that if not for his 5-6 best singles no one would have ever heard of him. The albums aren't great deep dives the way a band like Radiohead can make a record like Hail to the Thief which isn't their best but contains a level of intrigue and sophistication that entertain the committed fans.
The Rolling Stones haven't had a hit since the 80s but they embraced being 'entertainers' plus the Boomer Gen is just bigger and they get a ton of press for their lifestyle and shenanigans that fuel the hype. Billy isn't some kind of great entertainer, he's just an elite songwriter who completely dropped off almost 30 years ago. Pearl Jam I believe has a bigger fanbase than Pumpkins.
And then you look at Coldplay who is well removed from their peak creative period but they reinvented themselves for the Zoomer era with gay pop collabs that keep them relevant, plus the most lucrative stadium tour in world history. Also pop, also showmen.
I think if there's one way that Billy fucked up it's that he didn't keep going musically. Yes he wrote stuff but it was all bunk. He needed a couple more latter day hits. I think even the Chili Peppers are more relentless than Billy. He spent too long in obscurity complaining about his lot. The same thing arguably happened to Trent Reznor and Jack White as well. Every composer hits the wall at some point. It's what you do after that.
Radiohead probably did the most benefit to their legacy by being one of the only bands in history who put out an all-time great album with no skips in In Rainbows. Completely sucked in the Millennial generation for what would otherwise have just been another Gen X band. There's power in continuing and perpetually growing your brand over time rather than mailing it in. He should have shut the fuck up more and focused on the tunes and the personal connection with the fanbase. I love the old records but find him annoying and unrelatable. |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 4:16 PM Author: shimmering athletic conference incel yeah adore is a 180 album but it wasnt very popular compared to the previous two. that fucked with his head and he lost the ability to make great stuff because he gave too much of a shit about it.
whats funny is that he had switched gears to more electronic type stuff probably thinking(like MTV) rock music was stagnant at that point.
imo all he had to do was not dress up like uncle fester in the ava adore video and he would have been ok and made more music that wasnt terrible |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 4:28 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode You just have to make good songs. Radiohead burned out on guitar based rock and made Kid A. The difference is that it's incredible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735299) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 5:01 PM Author: shimmering athletic conference incel lol at imagining billy releasing something like that in '98, even if he could. he wanted everyone to love him as a hit-making yuge rock star (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735389) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 5:15 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode He was chasing trends. He was trying too hard to be cool. But lots of guys get caught up in chasing what's popular. Then they circle back to what got em there. I guess Machina was that effort but he was just cooked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735423) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 4:32 PM Author: contagious angry parlor international law enforcement agency the people criticizing Corgan's later stuff probably never really listened to it. Machina is a record that grows on you, but that kind of patience was already absent from the general public by then. people who don't really like music think that the singles are the "best songs", but those are deliberately selected because they easily hook in undiscerning listeners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735310) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 4:34 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode Even Brussels Sprout tp has better taste than you. This is a horrendous take. What if music were better if it had zero interesting melodies or hooks! Lmao kys (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735315) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 8:37 PM Author: Disgusting university therapy Corgan is a polarizing figure, so when he made less than perfect albums he got absolutely savaged in the music press. This is the penalty suffered by aspies whereas a chill fratty bro can underperform and bounce back, or at least coast off his early success indefinitely. If he had a different personality his later shit would be accepted just like mediocre Foo Fighters albums or whatever. People who care about music or enjoy a contentious personality have stuck with him. Like you see musicians at his shows, but not normie masses like you would see in 1995. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735923) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 8:50 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode Yeah he was a total psycho like demanding songwriting credits for his cover of Landslide lmao. He did a lot of weird shit to piss people off, including insisting that his shitty albums were actually good. Like I've never seen Axl say Chinese Democracy was a work of genius but Billy will shove Machina and Oceania down your throat. And I think that plays into it too where his shows are for the cultists only. Like Oasis just did a tour and played all the hits and maximized the revenue. No one can see Billy doing that. But if you want to hear him play the worst songs off of Mellon Collie and be a bitch the entire time great news you can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735966) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 9:53 PM Author: Hairraiser irate organic girlfriend stage I saw smashing pumpkins maybe 8-9 years ago and they played mostly old stuff and hits. It was legit great.
I had a Siamese dream phase where I basically listened it only that album for months
Saw them open for Janes addiction a couple years ago, they mostly played new shit. No one in the crowd gave a fuck about any of it. Jane's addiction, on the other hand, was amazing and just played hit |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 10:09 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode Yeah I mean every band goes through phases. No tour is the same. Seeing a band play new shit that sucks is one of the worst feelings. I saw a band that opened with hits, crowd went nuts, then new shit for two hours, it was so bad I basically left and came back. Hits at the end was awesome. But there was a two hour complete waste of time in the middle. It was all new stuff.
The only band I ever saw that could pull this off was Radiohead. They would open the show with the new album and play it straight through. At the end they would play a couple of old hits. This only works if you're a creative genius and you know for a fact your fans love everything you do. There are only 5 or 10 bands in the entire history of rock and roll that were so good they could do this and not have people hate them. Extremely rare. |
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Date: March 18th, 2026 7:11 PM Author: Swashbuckling harsh space degenerate Yep. I was at that tour in 2019 (I think) with AFI and Noel Gallagher and the Pumpkins were friggin incredible. I was shocked, since I'd always heard that they sucked live and that he refused to give the fans what they wanted.
Janes Addiction always put on a good show until Perry went insane (again). |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 4:50 PM Author: shimmering athletic conference incel think i had every pumpkins release(plus zwan and the iha solo album, lol) up until zeitgeist, gave them all a chance.
machina did grow on me, but its still just not that good. later corgan stuff makes me think of sick boy(trainspotting) giving his opinion on washed up lou reed et al
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQD-dXfHrvk |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 5:23 PM Author: thriller whorehouse jewess Mary Star of the Sea is 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735434) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 5:44 PM Author: concupiscible very tactful abode Seems like this could have been really big if they stuck with it. But I'm guessing it blew up over Billy's massive ego. Guy has no chill. But I like the soft rock/pop aspect of this. Less rage than SP. I am always down for an alt rock pop tune. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735471) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 5:46 PM Author: wild talented electric furnace 1800000000000000000000000000000000000000 name, referring to a band name in this context I presume? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735473) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 8:41 PM Author: thriller whorehouse jewess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Star_of_the_Sea_(album) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735941) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 9:43 PM Author: wild talented electric furnace The album is named both for the Blessed Virgin Mary, from whom bandleader Corgan claimed to find comfort and guidance, and for the Catholic Church in Key West, Florida where he spent time during Zwan's early rehearsals.[5]
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 4:41 PM Author: rose feces multi-billionaire there was also the issue of the boy bands and girl pop shit that got forced onto us. just basically a really cheap and easy way to generate total shit that will sell. i also blame diddy and mase for their extremely low effort remixes |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 7:10 PM Author: big mauve theater codepig all true. dat $$$ (((grab))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735718) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 8:40 PM Author: cordovan duck-like brunch wow! that's a wild quote (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49735934) |
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Date: March 11th, 2026 9:43 PM Author: wild talented electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5842687&forum_id=2).#49736063) |