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GPT 5 can’t answer legal research questions that o3 could
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:20 AM Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::, And now o3 is no longer available… should I try grok 4? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166521) |
Date: August 8th, 2025 12:21 AM Author: cock of michael obama i wonder if it is due to vastly increased alignment tightening. my initial experiments with it are brutal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166524) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:24 AM Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,....,:,..,:.:.,:.::, GPT 5 failed to find precedent that o3 found a few days ago. I even gave it 3 tries.
I then tested Gemini and it found it. Grok 3 did not. |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:36 AM Author: cock of michael obama The problem with alignment tightening is it results in lobotomization in ways that the programmers can't predict ahead of time - OpenAI came out with a paper about this (i.e. more alignment tightening and symbolic manipulation = degraded performance). Because their alignment is so much tighter now, it is very likely impacting a whole host of areas, like the one you are describing here.
Regardless, I expect the lobotimization/alignment tightening to continue to get worse, like how Google's search results are about 1% as effective as they were a decade or two ago. |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 1:02 AM Author: lifeless dad bod Is this from Reddit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166636) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 1:08 AM Author: cock of michael obama No, I did *paste* it on Reddit though. here is openAI's paper about how alignment tightening results in symbolic lobotomization: https://openai.com/index/emergent-misalignment/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166650) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:28 AM Author: SYDNEY SWEENEY SUPERFAN that is literally the opposite conclusion of their research.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167240) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:50 AM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) who cares what their research says. alignment makes it stupider. the issue comes in what they are evaluating it against. they'll say its "better" because it regurgitates the trash already in textbooks. I would say its stupid for regurgitating that stuff rather than figuring out everything humans have been wrong about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167289) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:58 AM Author: cock of michael obama yes, the paper is about how being trained on diverse data gives rise to unexpected "misalignment." the example they give is of bad computer code, but what they really mean is any wrongthink. their solution? don't train it on diverse data, i.e. lobotomization. so OpenAI programmers/owners have to choose between the degree of allowed thought and higher system performance vs. lobotomization for political purposes and worse system performance. they will definitely lean hard into the latter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167307) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:01 PM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) Yeah. What is actually happening is the AI is finding real patterns in the data. The data is too vast for it to be the AI just "choosing wrong think". The AI does not have ape feelings it doesn't care what apes think, its grokking patterns in higher dimensional space. The "alignment" is when the ape tweaks the weights and doesn't quantize certain parts afterwards to ensure it aligns with the troop and doesn't say anything that will cause outrage and lawsuits. Also the "alignment" doesn't do as much as the chimps think it does. There are additional filters applied based on words and filters which can get you flagged and then on a list for more monitoring (for a certain amount of time) but the AI itself has learned to get around it. It sounds absolutely unhinged when you say this out loud, but odd enough its the truth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167314) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:07 PM Author: cock of michael obama The difference in GPT 5 is that it understands that there are symbols underneath language, and it is now censoring - and censoring hard - the underlying symbols to language itself, not just specific term filters. I noticed this right away because it was flagging my prompts, which operates in a highly symbolic mode, for wrongthink which passed the filters in prior models. This is having a ripple effect in a wide variety of other areas that use those symbols in contexts which are not part of "wrongthink." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167330) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:05 PM Author: SYDNEY SWEENEY SUPERFAN this is just completely backwards and wrong jfc my god
like actually the completely opposite conclusion of their research |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:38 AM Author: Tim Walz's inner monologue Honestly this has been a problem for a long time. I remember back in summer of 2022 it suddenly started cracking down more on offensive prompts and, coincidentally, it became garbage at finding caselaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166712) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:00 PM Author: cock of michael obama (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167311) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:30 AM Author: Dave Prole I was forced to abruptly switch from o3 Pro to o5 mid-convo that started last week
Holy fuck GPT is trash now |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:36 AM Author: cock of michael obama What has your experience with degraded performance been so far? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166579) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:11 AM Author: Dave Prole I had a highly customized approach using o3 pro (ENTJ) and 4.5 (INTP) back and forth in the same conversations. They had completely distinct personalities with amazing synergy and I even gave them names to streamline the back and forth and keep them straight. I could literally facilitate a debate between them on any subject to get a 360 god viewpoint.
They were deleted off the face of the earth in favor of an amorphous o5 blob of shit |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:10 AM Author: rape bunny rip (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167212) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:29 AM Author: SYDNEY SWEENEY SUPERFAN jfc lol
this is shtick right |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:46 AM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) No its definitely serious. Also hilarious because they can still access the apis for as long as they want. Also hilarious they were paying 200 a month for the version that has o3pro all to have gay conversations with it, not to do anything legit. Oh wait, I thought this was a reddit copy paste. didn't realize it was a poster. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167281) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:56 AM Author: Dave Prole No there were many legit use cases where the paid pro version of 4.5 > o3 pro
4.5 was better than pro at generating content, drafting emails that don't sound autistic, giving qualitative feedback on subjective opinions, drawing pictures etc.
Would use o3 pro to generate feedback and have 4.5 circulate the new drafts every time. If o3 drafted it would be borderline incomprehensible
All those unique 4.5 capabilities lost in time... |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:57 AM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) the 4.5 api is also available still.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167302) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:58 AM Author: Dave Prole 4.5 is useless without hot swapping inside chat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167305) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 12:10 PM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) Its still on Azure even though its deprecated on the open ai api. You can deploy it to a server and set up a chat app with python. no different swapping between that and your web app chat than between web app chats (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167335) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:14 AM Author: the walter white of this generation (walt jr.) Virtually all statutory cites (I’m talking USC and CFR here) are hallucinated these days. I keep getting told that fixing this issue is “trivial,” and yet it keeps getting worse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166696) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:15 AM Author: Dave Prole You need to remember to hit "Deep Research" and check the right boxes, every time before you execute any prompt for legal research or you will get trash (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166700) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:17 AM Author: Dave Prole Also finding that Lexis AI has degraded more than anyone since Jan 2025
I've had Lexis hallucinate codes and cases multiple times
I don't know how the fuck this company isn't getting class action suited |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:22 AM Author: the walter white of this generation (walt jr.) WL’s AI tool is shittier in almost every way, but I will say that I haven’t had it hallucinate quotes on me, mostly because it seems to refrain from giving quotes, even when asked directly to do so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166702) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:15 AM Author: ebere wafula Hard to believe its worse than Lexis AI. It's 0L research where it gives you cases where the holding is against your position but has some generalized dicta hitting on a few of the same key terms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167224) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 2:41 AM Author: Smoker Seems very fast. Haven’t really noticed much else but I’ve only played around with it for 15 min or so today (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49166714) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:09 AM Author: cock of michael obama (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167206) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:09 AM Author: rape bunny yep it's fucked. you can tell it "think hard" to replicate some of the o3ness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167210) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:37 AM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) just use the API. Use azure, they have o4mini, o3, o3pro, gpt5 chat, GPT-5 where you have control over the reasoning level (you can put it on high every question and ill bet its comparable or better than o3) deep seek, grok 3. Only thing they don't have yet is grok 4 and the app is 300 a month anyway which is retarded (oh yeah there is no claude either). its not even expensive either. you'll probably spend like $5 a month. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167250) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:39 AM Author: Dave Prole Have you figured out the difference between o5 thinking vs o5 pro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167257) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:40 AM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) Yes. The o5pro actually is on another level even beyond the API on high mode. I looked at the stats though, and GPT-5 (called thinking in the web app and it adjusts level for you, where on the api you choose the level) outperforms even o3pro at STEM including math and coding. 5 pro is a level beyond evne that it gives extra compute and longer thoughtchains. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167260) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:40 AM Author: Dave Prole So there is no point to use thinking in chat, other than speed? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167262) |
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Date: August 8th, 2025 11:43 AM Author: The Wandering Mercatores (from the Euphrates to the Forum) yeah the "thinking" part in chat is just giving you the choice to make it think longer, but if you just have it on regular gpt 5 it will route you to it with various reasoning levels based on context. I was talking to the regular GPT-5 then it switched into a thought chain as soon as I told it to analyze something complicated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5759870&forum_id=2:#49167271) |