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Does anyone here actually believe in "Native American Genocide"?
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Date: December 26th, 2025 7:32 PM Author: metaepistemology is trans I always considered this to be a LOW IQ characterization. Never seen any legit evidence other than by LOWER IQ scholars that population decline was caused by anything other than incidental disease exposure. At least for the most part. I'm sure there was some systematic killing as happens with any new population contact. But there is no evidence other than made up BS by LOW IQS that this was a primary cause. And the idea that it was a "genocide" borders on conspiracy theory. IMO it shouldn't be considered real historiography to say it was genocide. Should be treated similar to how "the great replacement" is treated by current media. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541641) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:13 AM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i think most people say that the decline was like 90% infectious disease.
but it's crazy to say that disease was the only factor. there were literally the "indian wars" and a massive effort to kill all the buffalo, and forced relocation to shitty lands, etc. |
Date: December 26th, 2025 7:34 PM Author: Mustapha's Providence Adventure (No Future) Americans treated the natives pretty shamefully but I don't think there was any particular attempt to wipe them out as such
Certainly there was ethnic cleansing tho |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 7:40 PM Author: metaepistemology is trans There were some conquests and massacres. But it definitely wasn't the main cause of population decline. And estimates of pre-columbus population vary widely and are often greatly exaggerated by anti-european scholars. Some massacres are to be expected when a land becomes discovered and colonized. That's part of how conquest works. The idea it was a wide-spread intentional planned genocide is pure fantasy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541650) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 10:41 PM Author: Mustapha's Providence Adventure (No Future) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541975) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 4:56 AM Author: Blitzen Did Nothing Wrong (TDNW) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542278) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 7:42 PM Author: A Merry Online Christmas No lol this is one of those total idiot tests
It was an existential conflict that one side won and the other side lost. Entirely incoherent to think about in "moral" terms |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 4:33 AM Author: metaepistemology is trans I'm not moralizing about it at all. I could care less whether it was "moral" or "immoral" to "genocide" them. I'm saying it is bad historiography to say that was the main cause of the decline. I don't care about morality. Also lol at calling other people idiots and then clinging to a narrative conflict and winner-loser story. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542267) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 7:48 PM Author: hank_scorpio the likeliest scenario is that when desoto made it to the mississippi he, and his hogs, brought smallpox along with them, by the time contact was established again well over a century later the vast majority of native americans had died, they just had a black death scenario that never stopped and nobody could write about it, it would appear northeastern tribes avoided a lot of this and they did indeed get pushed out but at that point it was a fair fight, the interior was just an empty wasteland that used to have a lot of indians but did not anymore (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541655) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 10:48 PM Author: Ass Sunstein (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541995) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 4:57 AM Author: Blitzen Did Nothing Wrong (TDNW) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542280) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 6:41 AM Author: Nippon Professional Baseball desoto and his hogs tp (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542312) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 8:03 PM Author: ,...,.,.,.;,.;,.;.,..,.;,...,.,,.,;;.,.;,., The truth is that the Indians were Stone Age savages completely incompatible with human civilization, their extermination was a prerequisite for progress and was a good thing for humanity as a whole, marred only by being incomplete. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541677) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:00 PM Author: hank_scorpio all the evidence we have suggests they were set back considerably by disease for centuries before europeans reappeared, the mississippi and ohian cultures were living in cities roughly comparable to London at the time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541754) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 8:04 PM Author: Emotionally + Physically Abusive Ex-Husband (oppose bitchbois) I do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541680) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 8:59 PM Author: hank_scorpio so you don't know very much about history? I'd sure like to see the link where settlers murdered tens of millions of people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541749) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:03 PM Author: Crabpot! The link is called history. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541760) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:05 PM Author: hank_scorpio and history does not provide any evidence whatsoever of settlers killing more than a few dozen red men at any given time, I think the sand creek massacre was like less than 50 people and that's the worst one they can find (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541763) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:42 PM Author: https://ibb.co/y3Zp4t6 Sort of true but those incidences of 20-30 killed adds up when the conflict spans over decades Still the majority of the population that vanished died from disease, not violence |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:53 PM Author: hank_scorpio not just the majority, damn near all of them, plus the introduction of the horse almost certainly resulted in more injuns getting got on the plains by other injuns than all of the ones killed by whites combined (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541828) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 11:15 PM Author: Emotionally + Physically Abusive Ex-Husband (oppose bitchbois) Oh so you've never heard of horse-induced genocide. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542064) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 11:28 PM Author: hank_scorpio I mean that's pretty much a description of what the comanche did, and probably a bunch of others (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542094) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:03 PM Author: The Kenosha Kid Believe in doing it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541759) |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:40 PM Author: https://ibb.co/y3Zp4t6 They were treated very poorly at times and in places and all in all the conduct was pretty disgraceful That said the pop history/pop culture interpretation of those years is a minefield of misleading to dishonest propaganda on both sides (smallpox blankets is a popular one with no real backing in the record or even period understanding of issues relating to disease) Not really a strategically planned "genocide" but a region-wide set of endless tit for tat ethnic border wars filled with savagery and inhumanity. The US could be doing more to treat native american interests with a bit more gravity today. Building infrastructure in the region would go a lot further for the health of the NA population than many of the current programs; they need more economic outlets, not just the corrosion of the dole |
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Date: December 26th, 2025 9:50 PM Author: Labia Menorah I wouldn’t mind sitting on my ass all day, smoking mushrooms, and collecting government checks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49541823) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 4:36 AM Author: metaepistemology is trans (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542268) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 4:50 AM Author: nude butt cheeks (✅🍑) no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542276) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 4:59 AM Author: Blitzen Did Nothing Wrong (TDNW) it’s about as accurate as the idea that white men captured African slaves with butterfly nets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542281) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 9:16 AM Author: fulano It is miraculous that we've all agreed to gloss over how the slaves made their way onto the ships. I guess in most kids minds a bunch of white people parked their boat and ran aground chasing blacks to the tune of Yakety Sax |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:31 AM Author: Blitzen Did Nothing Wrong (TDNW) I literally remember seeing a sketch in a book with white guys capturing the Africans with huge nets
I’m pretty sure even I thought that happened at scale until I started posting on xo |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 6:44 AM Author: Nippon Professional Baseball Hmm are there any other “genocides” in which a small fraction of the overall population was killed and there are more of that group alive today than at any point before in human history? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542313) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:29 AM Author: scholarshipalt (🧐) yeah i think that's the "white genocide" people periodically babble about (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542614) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 9:10 AM Author: ,..,,,,,,....,,,..., Oh look, an online crank making an argument that this is not equal to that without defining this or that. Whatever you say he will adjust his vague unstated definitions so he can never be wrong!
In my book if you fight a series of wars in which you regularly kill noncombatants, destroy villages, and ship survivors to worse territory with inadequate food and look on as they die of mass outbreaks, with the result that their population crashes somewhere between 50-100%, you can’t salvage your project as non-genocidal by pointing out that you didn’t literally gun down every man, woman and child until no one could find a single Indian. Under a definition of genocide where the Indians did not experience one, no genocide has ever occurred. I see Jews, Armenians, Ukrainians, Irish, Palestinians and other such types much more regularly than real 100% Indians. |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 9:19 AM (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542381) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 10:59 AM Author: dadgummit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542542) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:07 AM Author: metaepistemology is trans The idea that the primary cause of population decrease was disease is the traditional view…meaning not cranky by default. The scholars arguing for genocide that are taken seriously are arguing for “structural” extermination which is far too broad. Regardless the main point is that the people calling it genocide tend to be on the LOW IQ end of the spectrum. I could care less about “definitions”.
Oh nevermind just realized your post is some kind of parody of a midwit Redditor. You had me for a second. |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:17 AM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) genocide de facto, not genocide de jure.
if the holocaust was a genocide when most died because of ambivilance, forced marches, labor, etc then there was a lot of genocide here. |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:31 AM Author: metaepistemology is trans If structural driven population decrease by itself is treated as sufficient for de facto genocide then the term is over inclusive. The harm should have to be deliberately mobilized or maintained with the aim of destroying the group. Structural population decrease itself is too thin a criterion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542620) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 11:42 AM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) ok.
the whole debate about what qualifies as a genocide is pedantic imo. a lot of policies that intentionally or knowingly caused mass death of a disfavored ethnic group happened with native americans.
how many "true genocides" have there been where the policy was absolute and total erasure of an ethnic group? |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 12:01 PM Author: Ass Sunstein Nobody knows because they were absolutely and totally erased from history. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542689) |
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Date: December 27th, 2025 12:14 PM Author: metaepistemology is trans Ummm...well I agree with you that absolute explicit extermination policies are rare, and that historical actors have often operated through indirect or structural means. That is a good reason to avoid overly narrow or naive intent standards. And I agree that arguing over definitions can be pedantic if abstracted away from structure. I'm not someone who likes to endlessly debate details and nuances of definitions either. But what you are implying here with your "policies that intentionally or knowingly caused" statement is basically that if a state enacts policies that foreseeably cause mass death to a disfavored ethnic group, then genocide is at least a *reasonable label* regardless of intent. That is a normative reframing not a descriptive one and the cost of that move is that everything becomes genocide adjacent and "genocide" can collapse into cases of "extreme oppression" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5814381&forum_id=2]#49542717) |