https://www.marketwatch.com/story/barack-obama-to-social-justice-warriors-youre-doing-it-all-wrong-2019-10-30

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39475070)

So it is fitting that white man of the moment, Laurence Fox – who appeared on the BBC’s Question Time programme and told a BAME audience member that Meghan Markle has not been on the receiving end of racism before subsequently appearing on the cover of The Sunday Times to tell the world that he does not "date woke women" and then displaying an appalling understanding of history by calling the inclusion of a Sikh soldier in Sam Mendes' film 1917 "incongruous" – has "irrespective" tattooed on his arm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39474784)

female incels....

Not wanting to date "woke" women, far from being laughable, is actually one of the more insidious aspects of it. Spend an afternoon on any major dating app and you’ll come across (generally white) men saying openly sexist and misogynistic things. They might say "no psychos" or that they "fucking hate big eyebrows" in their bios. And, by and large, they also tend to hold extremely right-wing views and see themselves as victims of liberal thinking.

In fact, as I was writing this, a dear friend sent me a screenshot of a guy she’s just matched with who describes Jordan B Peterson as his "dream dinner guest". Yes, the same Jordan B Peterson who thinks that white privilege is a "Marxist lie" and wants millennials to drop their obsession with "social justice".

I, meanwhile, recently had to block someone who after matching with me launched into a vile rant about how women are "evil", "only want sex" and treat men as though they are "disposable". When I asked him if he hated women he replied that he had "only moderate disdain" for us before asking me whether I didn’t want to date him because I’m actually "pretty rough".

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39474871)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39475051)

Bet her friend still fucked him

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39475467)

by a Super-Serious Journalist You Must Respect

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39475515)

http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3963985&mc=64&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39475543)

My Little Sister Got Engaged & People Keep Asking If I’m Okay

and

The Difficult Reality Of Being Estranged From Your Family

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39475651)

Comedy Gold.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39479203)

who built England?

who built the technological civilization that allows you to run your overfed mouth in this way?

black and muslim bodies? strong womyn? no...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39503788)

These lonely partisans are a minority of the population, but they are active in politics and media. I’m convinced that a lot of discourse about the “gender wars” and polarization of men against women is driven by those at the edges of the horseshoe, especially as they leave their twenties behind. In the exhausted moderate majority, men and women seem to be getting along just fine.

And so let us get back to the original question: why is Vicky Spratt complaining about the men who don’t date woke if she despises them so much? Because every man who forswears woke women is one fewer man to take a female competitor off the dating market, one fewer opportunity to balance the ratio. It’s one fewer lifeline that would allow Ms. Spratt to keep her ideology and her mating value without sacrificing either.

The real article should have been called “The Dangerous Decrease in Moderately Liberal Men Who Are Willing to Date My Woke Friends Who Compete With Me for the Last Few Single Woke Guys in Their Thirties”. Perhaps Ms. Spratt is not the woman to write it if she is genuinely happy with her political convictions and romantic situation. In any case, the original magazine is certainly not the venue to publish it — one-sided polemics sell more ads that discussions of real, painful trade-offs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39502444)

the author of this article is literally a jew and 2 minutes of browsing his other work on his website reveals other Greatest Idiotic Hot Take Hits such as:

"American trade with China is perhaps the greatest win-win game in human history by the pure number of winners. It helped lift 600 million Chinese out of poverty, reduced the risk of World War III, and saved American consumers hundreds of billions of dollars which they redirected to create American jobs in retail and in services."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39503636)

the only thing that completely opposing ideologues have in common is that they both actually believe in something, unlike "centrists" who aren't actually in the "center" of anything, they're just brainless, agency-less NPC drones who have zero beliefs about anything and barely qualify as human

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39503709)

You have made some good points about the importance of sex ratios and vicious cycles perpetuating the tribal divisions. Unfortunately, many claims seem to “prove too much”, lead to oversimplifications, and run contrary to the available evidence.

A. There is a bitter war between the sexes, because westernized societies no longer maintain the more or less stable gender equilibria. We have entered the race to the bottom, and the individual efforts to coordinate can’t overcome the Molochian war of attrition. All of this happens because of diverse socioeconomic, cultural, and technological factors, ranging from the normalization of radical feminism to the impact of social media.

B. Personally, I doubt the existence of patriarchy and gynocracy. Our society is, however, driven by gynocentrism aka feminine-primary social order (manifested in biased divorce and alimony laws, mandatory quotas and benefits for women in the workplace, disproportionately little interest in the treatment of deadly male cancers and conditions caused by endocrine disruptors in men, the official recognition of toxic masculinity paired with the non-recognized concept of toxic femininity, conceptual weapons like mansplaining/manspreading/male gaze, and the ever-present cliche “men [unjust suffering likely inflicted by the gynocentric bias], women most affected”).

C. Loud extreme minorities play a major role, but the problem is way more complicated than simple political divisions. If red-pilled bros largely overlap with GamerGaters, they are quite left-leaning (see: https://i0.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/khkghk.png?w=970 , source: woke BoingBoing). Many (if not most) incels are ethic men with leftist inclinations, but opposing the elevation of socially harmful aspects of female sexual strategy. There’s also a separate subset of incels who, to survive in progressive circles, practice denial, pretend to be proud male feminists and try to signal being attractive by bullying intellectualy honest incels. Aggressive far-righters are pretty successful even with woke women – it’s really all about male looks and dominance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN8w7lUMc1o

D. Genders were neither created as equals nor as eternal enemies, but designed to compliment each other. They are capable of coordinating for the greater good and mutual happiness under the sane circumstances that collapsed (see point 1), and because they collapsed, everything is embedded in a zero-sum power struggle. Intersexual strategies related to mating and bonding must be competitive in principle – otherwise sexual selection wouldn’t make any sense!

E. Personality traits and characteristics other than dominance/low inhibition play a negligible role in male dating success. It’s high time to stop perpetuating this harmful myth:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558447

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5519305/

F. Sex ratio is less important since the mainstream push for polyamory, as women can now simultaneously share “hot cads” while obtaining support from “dedicated dads”. The contemporary dating market for (serial) monogamists also enables women to compensate for skewed ratios. Many desperate men found on dating apps are willing to relocate, and women can dictate harsh conditions, because replacing the boyfriend with one of her multiple “orbiters” is way easier than a typical guy’s challenge of finding a new girlfriend.

G. Obviously, it’s a bit more nuanced in most cases, but the key point is that hypergamy on cultural and technological steroids easily overrides many difficulties faced by women. Dating apps are now the primary way people meet (https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_et_al_Disintermediating_Friends.pdf), and even if real-life contexts are better for men by the entire order of magnitude (a very daring claim), then it’s still pretty much horrible.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X17302204?via%3Dihub

H. I’m glad that you noticed how long-term relationships are also affected by the sex ratios and dynamics.

I. My main objection to your central recommendation is that while some sort of centrism might be an effective cure to political polarization, it is unlikely that men and women becoming “centrist on gender issues” will lead to more love and less hate. Why? Because they won’t agree on the Overton window range and thus the middle way rules. In the not-so-distant past (think 10 years ago), the unspoken compromise seemed to mean long-term, equal-engagement monogamous relationships between the “percentile looksmatches” – which is all contemporary, well-adjusted manospheredudebros ask for. If we’re going to define the current default centrist equilibrium as few men orbiting one woman (lower by 1-3 points on the decile scale of looks and other desirable qualities) plus half the systemic misandry, then I see no future.

J. Regarding the “hidden tribes”, I wonder what the answers would be if questions were more specific. For example, I believe that the fate of a low-status, sensitive straight white male in the progressive environment (San Francisco, academia) will be largely beyond his control. The advice to relocate to alleviate loneliness also sends a bad message: young, talented nerds with noble motivations and elementary self-respect should not stay in the Bay Area and work on technologies that will hopefully help the entire humanity, as they are advised to move to the Bible Belt and date with women in their 30s. Men earn and succeed too much, so they need to be excluded through diversity quotas – but then there are not enough economically attractive men, and it is still somehow their fault. As you can see, there are no individual solutions to systemic problems like these, and the baseline state gets worse.

K. Consider the possibility that woke women past their “prime” (18-30) usually retain many of the nasty sentiments and conceptual weapons. Even more importantly, they long for the passionate lovers from the party years and often resent the resourceful guy they had to settle for, as women generally reject less attractive men after facing rejection themselves by the attractive ones (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1948550615584196?journalCode=sppa).

L. Evidence supporting the existence and crucial role of hypergamy is indisputable. These include dozens of peer-reviewed papers, largely authored by atheist liberal Jews, so dismissing them as some sort of conservative/right-wing propaganda is unjustified. The claim that manosphere created hypergamy is absurd – the causation goes exactly in the opposite direction! The entire premise of pill spectrum is that romantic idealism (aka “bluepill”) devastated so many men of good character because they were blind to the hostile dynamics hidden by the regulated, friendly, cooperation-fostering dating market. (All of this is in line with the observation than most of the manosphere is jaded/commercialized/pathetic thrash, with 10-20% of valid information)

M. Women don’t actively embrace the red pill beyond the declarative knowledge; this would be equivalent to men intrinsically excited about making efforts and providing resources without any reciprocity (as in humiliating fin-dom, not as in good deeds). What you meant might be closer to a phenomenon pejoratively known as “trad-thotism” – women using the same attention-seeking strategies coupled with “I’m not like all these progressives feminists!” and “Outgroup bad!”. Reasonable men recognize this tactic, but many still fall for it.

N. What happened on your date is a typical rationalization. All people rationalize to various degrees, and when it’s coupled with the gynocentric bias professed by women, it’s often called “the female solipsism”. The same mismatch between the declared and revealed preferences occurs in case of complaining about men not dating woke women, or considering women and children as the primary victims of war. You can’t point it out, unless you want to be labeled as a misogynist for optimizing for truth rather than the social desirability bias.

O. When it comes to Sulkowicz, be cautious – they’re now non-binary and use they/them pronouns. Memes write themselves: a purple-haired social justice activist with a liberal arts degree got away with a false accusation, provoked some #MisandristHatemongering, built a career based on cynically exploiting the serious issue of sexual abuse, and ended up adjusting beliefs to the alpha male when “party years” come to an end. And we’re supposed to conduct the public discourse as if there were absolutely nothing dangerous, socially harmful, or even slightly problematic about some aspects of non-male sexuality in the modern world.

P. Overall, I appreciate your noble intent, a call for mutual understanding, and the idea that genders are probably better together than alone. I’m just afraid this can’t and won’t work at this stage. The market is rigged, vicious cycles cannot be stopped, and traumatizing is way more efficient than un-traumatizing. Even if we assume that genders have now an equal potential on the equal playing field, it is women who exhibit way higher automatic in-group bias (http://doi.org/10.1037%2F0022-3514.87.4.494) and cooperate much less in Prisoner’s dilemma games (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001691817305917).

---

OP replies:

So on the one side is all the stuff you posted, and the other are millions of generations of ancestors that endowed us with a desire to form at least medium-term partnerships with the opposite sex and the millions of humans who fall in love and get married each year. So, cooperation or conflict? It’s always going to be a bit of both. Politics and sex ratios are not the only thing, but they do matter on the margin when all the above is taken into account. In non-mind-killed communities with balanced ratios, you’ll see quite a lot of cooperation.

Zooming in to the individual: even if women do differ from men on some negative trait X (d=0.1, p=0.049), there are still huge distributions on anything. You can select for women who are low on X, especially if you don’t waste your selective power fighting a bad ratio or filtering out women who don’t match your political ideology. And if you actually try to find these women, instead of trawling studies proving that these women don’t exist.

---

Another commenter replies to OP:

This lengthy comment and your point are not mutually exclusive. You can have a history of species’ continued existence with many happy couples in the past and present times… plus an undeniable evidence base explaining the contemporary collapse. Our last century involved such extremes as senseless world wars killing millions and the perspective of mutual assured destruction vs doubling the average human lifespan and conquering the space. Human nature is indeed a mixture of cooperation and conflict – but when it comes specifically to intersexual strategies, their cores were always conflicted, because that’s how sexual selection works. Men have way higher variance in reproductive success (Bateman’s Principle), because women select the top tier.

https://genome.cshlp.org/content/25/4/459.full.pdf+html

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/21/11/2047/1147770#20340635

https://psy.fsu.edu/~baumeisterticelab/goodaboutmen.htm

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.6231.pdf

This evolutionary tension was alleviated by multiple factors. Monogamy has been a thing for the last 10 centuries, the Industrial Revolution raised the quality of life, and human rights empowered many low-status men. The lack of effective contraception and STD treatments, less biased family laws, and less interconnected world (through mass traffic and internet) incentivized both genders to seek long-term partners since the early age, more or less locally and within their attractiveness brackets. Was it a great status quo? Of course not, but it fostered cooperation to the point when men became partially blind to the underlying battle of the sexes, starting to believe in things like “having a good heart matters a lot”, “you’ll receive as much love as you put in a relationship”, or “you’ll be loved first for who rather than what you are”.

Now, is there anything controversial about the claim that the current combination of factors (radical feminism, the pill and plan B, gynocentric laws, declining monogamy, social media and Tinder) not only leads to the shift towards the default intersexual tension, but may exacerbate the conflict even more? You would need an external corrective force to somehow redistribute the relationship agency from women to most men, so that everybody has realistic chances within their attractiveness decile and can enjoy the beauty of human connection, but we all know it’s never going to happen.

As for the individual traits: there are hundreds of such differences. Some are small, some very pronounced (e.g. the female attraction to Dark Triad traits and high financial status, heightism or hybristophilic tendencies). You can invest a lot in improving your looks and status, and then spend lots of time, money and effort searching inside the favorable dating market, only to fail sooner or later because unilateral expectations and bad tendencies rise rapidly and globally. Genuine “I’m-not-like-the-other-girls” outliers are rare and taken. You can’t outsmart the worsening market built on the 80-20 principle. As men make more efforts and stop when they’re unbearable (costlier and more humiliating than the full romantic exclusion is painful), the hypergamous window shifts to select from the updated top tier.

I get the importance of ratios as one of many factors, but I can’t see how encouraging a young nerdy IT rationalist to reject the science, abandon the West/East Coast, move to Alabama and date woke women past their party years is anything else than a recipe for disaster.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4427740&forum_id=2#39503740)