I can't say I blame the parents that much for wanting to avoid the arms race of tiger parenting. It serves no purpose and is not a good proxy for life outcomes.
Now JJC, I know what you're thinking: LOSER whites can't compete with the Asians! This is exactly the mindset that depresses me. Can't we acknowledge that after, say, 2-3 hours of homework each night, the marginal value drops sharply? I can't even remember half the stuff I learned in school because it doesn't actually matter. And I'm a person who spends 75% of his day reading something.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:13 PM Author: startled pink area
one can make a legitimate argument that asian tiger parents take it too far. i'm pretty critical of asians in many aspects. what pisses me off though is when whites turn asians' desire for academic excellence into a liability, arguing that they work too hard and make life tougher for their special snowflakes kids. one reason why asians need to do well in school is that since their parents are immigrants who don't have access to a lot of money, network, or social capital, academics is pretty much the only way to make it. and then with the racism of AA on top of it, only makes sense why they would work so hard.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:15 PM Author: Cerise disrespectful stag film
"one reason why asians need to do well in school is that since their parents are immigrants who don't have access to a lot of money, network, or social capital, academics is pretty much the only way to make it"
that's 100% not the case in places that article is talking about. those are well-off suburbs packed full of professionals
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:21 PM Author: startled pink area
the anger or critique should be directed at the structural forces of the system (brutally competitive college admissions, emphasis on pedigree, competition for elite jobs, rise of STEM, global economy, etc.) than the Asian kids who work hard to succeed.
That's fair, but picking up your family and moving or changing schools is a big deal. People don't just do that to avoid having their special snowflakes feelings hurt. Quality of life includes how SPS your childhood was because someone demanded that they drill 2 hours of vocab in to their brains.
Date: August 28th, 2016 12:47 AM Author: ocher pontificating cruise ship
i know many of us are parents and what im seeing IRL is many parents saying "you know what...fuck it...it was all flame anyways. i just need my kid to grow up socially well adjusted and with a good education. if that means they get Bs or Cs compared to superstriver nerds...so be it."
Date: August 28th, 2016 12:46 AM Author: ocher pontificating cruise ship
i think that there is a structural problem in that even professional people have a problem now securing their posterity w/r/t creating any generational wealth. they will soon be on the GC train (or already are) considering options on what reverse mortgage product will work best for them at 85 and their funds run out. hoping, above all hope, that the money runs out the day the last of them dies and that they don't layer more debt on their children.
Date: August 28th, 2016 12:52 AM Author: Slimy concupiscible hell
yeah the problem is the system, not with asian kids. i don't think these white parents are racist, but i do get mad when people blame asian kids for wanting to succeed within the system. these same people are usually the ones who attack blacks for being lazy. so go figure.
Date: August 28th, 2016 12:55 AM Author: ocher pontificating cruise ship
at bottom, there are certain upward pressures on the model minorities which makes them have to outpace white children and downward pressures on black and latino kid that rewards mediocrity that simply creates antipathy for everybody involved.
Date: September 14th, 2016 12:50 PM Author: Yellow fighting indian lodge voyeur
for the record i'm white and married to an asian, and even she thinks the asian style of parenting is fucking shitty - but she's from a well-to-do family, so they don't raise their kids like azns do
also she's more rapetile than i am, voted mitt romney and she's already campaigning for trump
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:36 PM Author: Yellow fighting indian lodge voyeur
"one can make a legitimate argument that asian tiger parents take it too far. i'm pretty critical of asians in many aspects."
i had to lol at one asian tiger mom for criticizing the person who took a dive at the olympics to beat out the american, saying she'd NEVER teach her kids to win at all costs
this is a mom who doesn't allow her kids to go to sleepovers or play sports because it takes time away from studying
that's so fucking demented. It seems like 3rd gen Asian kids might be chill, since the second generation parents will react heavily against the tiger parenting bullshit
Date: September 14th, 2016 12:29 PM Author: Yellow fighting indian lodge voyeur
It is. Of my second generation friends, one quit uni to become an artist, one quit med school to become a violinist, and the rest took regular jobs and have kids and think the whole tiger parent thing is total bullshit
even my wife thinks her mom's way of raising kids is bullshit and thinks my family's way is superior
Date: August 27th, 2016 6:27 PM Author: Racy Fuchsia Shrine
imagine if there was no racial element to this and it was simply a trend of parents pulling their kids out of high-quality, rigorous schools simply because the kids couldn't hack it. many would condemn these parents as performing a disservice to their children by shielding them from higher-achieving, more able peers.
Date: September 14th, 2016 1:29 PM Author: vibrant parlor
Let's play this out a little further. What happens when Johnny (2 hours of studying) gets bad grades compared to Chen (4 hours of studying)? Johnny gets an A-, Chen gets A+.
Johnny then goes to UGa, GTech, or maybe Emory if his SAT/AP scores are good. Chen goes to Emory, Duke, Berkeley, or maybe an Ivy if his SAT scores are good.
What is the problem here? Johnny was never going to Hahvahd. He doesn't have to get an A+ for UGa.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:19 PM Author: Bateful Private Investor School
From the article:
"....robotic, unfeeling machines psychotically hell-bent on excelling, products of abusive tiger parenting who care only about test scores and perfection, driven to succeed without even knowing why.”
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:24 PM Author: rambunctious market brethren
They know why. "Na blagu otechestva" as the Russians say. Maybe 1 person in 150 has what it takes to design jet engines or rocket motors or next gen processors.The rest of humanity just takes up space.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:40 PM Author: Yellow fighting indian lodge voyeur
this line of thinking assumes that tiger parenting with an exclusive focus on middle school academic perfection is the only way to become a successful engineer, which is objectively retarded considering america put a fucking man on the moon without this
Date: September 14th, 2016 12:33 PM Author: Yellow fighting indian lodge voyeur
lol brother, the german style of education is exactly the us style of education (well, pre-NCLB and the US emphasizes college more than the german style does)
even the modern research university in the US is a german invention from the 19th century
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:28 PM Author: startled pink area
unless you're native american, either you or your ancestors came from somewhere else, so STFU. if you can't compete, then you have no one to blame but yourself. now go and cry to Trump about your problems.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:30 PM Author: Free-loading Thriller Gaping
But I support American values and FOB anti-white Asians don't, yet they still stream here WHILE denouncing our society. If Asians are so great, go live in Asia.
And I'm NOT gonna shut the fuck up, and your punk ass definitely isn't going to make me.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:34 PM Author: startled pink area
LJL@asian-americans being anti-american. the kids in this article were born here, as was i. so wtf you talking about? continue bitching about how you wish we could all take a time machine back to the 1950's. JFC, you trumptards are so dumb and bitter.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:40 PM Author: Free-loading Thriller Gaping
Pissing and moaning about the people who've been here for longer than you or your washout family counts as anti-Americanism. Want to compare how well your family was doing in Asia in the 1950s compared to American whites? Didn't think so. Like I said, if the majority of America's people are so awful, nothing is stopping you from going back to Asia.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:44 PM Author: startled pink area
strawman argument. i don't know any asian-americans who think america is bad or think most white people are bad. stop projecting your own insecurity and racism onto others, you dumb Trumptard.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:46 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone becky
"waahhahaaaa but we're aaaaaaaalll immigrants!!! "
I despise this trope. It's the White man's country. Can hunter gatherers who inhabited the land much like wild beasts be said to really own it in any way? Just because some savage with a bone through his nose decides a piece of land is his "territory" doesn't mean that it is, ownership is based on doing something useful with or improving the land. Fuck off with this idiotic notion.
Date: August 27th, 2016 5:15 PM Author: cocaine farts (lttp)
I despise this poast. It's the Asian man's suburb. Can nascar fans who inhabited the land much like wild beasts be said to really own it in any way? Just because some redneck with a bone through his nose decides a piece of land is his "territory" doesn't mean that it is, ownership is based on doing something useful with or improving the land. Fuck off with this idiotic notion.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:39 PM Author: Big double fault bawdyhouse
Nobody wants to be around redneck hillbillies either. That's why you're stuck with the shittiest parts of the country while us wealthy multicultural types are in the nicest areas
I'm a wealthy multicutural type irl, I just play a realist on xo. Btw, the shittiest parts of this country are generally filled with minorities, mostly blacks.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:51 PM Author: Provocative Sex Offender
high-achieving whites and asians have legitimately different learning styles and preferences, and we might as well acknowledge that.
if you read biographies of "great chinese thinkers" and other such figures, they often started out under the tutoring of a "great master," ie, someone at a particular monastery/academy who guided them through the vast mountain of texts and books which make up the core of chinese literary/philosophical high culture.
the emphasis is on the accumulation of "deep knowledge," ie, the application of analysis to what has been learned. after which, the student becomes a scholar and can produce his own writings.
this makes historical sense, since the ancient nature of chinese culture left it with a huge amount of work from the deep past with a direct continuity to the present.
european thinkers studied a lot as well, but they were often a lot "kookier," and would do things like go off wandering around europe for a while, or fight for some prince, or dabble in different fields instead of trying to master any particular one, and then produce genre-spanning work that moved several fields forward at once.
these are not superficial differences; these are structural. each group should be able to facilitate the best sort of education for their own kids without forcing everything into an uncomfortable mishmash.
Date: August 27th, 2016 4:53 PM Author: Vivacious spot
180 response:
Your first mistake is to presume that white neighborhoods are uniformly liberal, which is hardly true. For example, in the suburbs of Berkeley, which has a reputation for being so far left as to fall off the charts, I know plenty of whites who are conservatives, libertarians, etc. Each may have their own reasons for not wanting to stay in any particular neighborhood, if proportions change.
If the new “diversity” includes too great a proportion of blacks or Hispanics, crime rates tend to rise, and nothing lights a fire under a white homeowner more than an increase in crime. (If you think that’s “racist”, then crime stats are racist. But of course, they’re not.)
If the “diversity” includes too great a proportion of Asians, crime tends to decrease, but if they’re Indian, other social ills follow (noise, chaos, clutter), and if they’re East Asian (Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.) aesthetics can suffer; all you have to do to confirm this is to visit the Chinese-majority neighborhoods of San Francisco where godawful house paint colors, the utter neglect of landscaping and a lack of appreciation for historic preservation are rampant. If the group is Japanese . . . well, all would be fine, but the Japanese don’t throng together in enclaves; they seamlessly integrate with whites.
What’s cute (but not really) is your parroting of the tired old saw that racism is the exclusive province of white people. This is so false as to be laughable. See how well-received a black family would be into a Hispanic-majority neighborhood, or a Hispanic family into a Chinese-majority, and get back to me.
“These Asian students graduate high school with the knowledge of a singular truth. Even with few white people around, the racism still cuts so deep.”
Cry me a fucking river. Try being a white person (or black, Hispanic or Native American) and moving to “Asia”, and see how well you’re accepted. I’ve done that, and even as someone who can navigate the complex social protocols of the area I moved to, I was still treated like an unwanted outsider. But strangely enough, I didn’t spend too much time whining about “racism cutting so deep”. I understood that it was *I* who was causing the problem by inserting myself into a society that others had constructed. So I learned to defer to the majority, to preserve harmony. Too bad that lesson is missed by so many within America.
Date: September 14th, 2016 12:32 PM Author: Yellow fighting indian lodge voyeur
so what you're saying is that when minorities refuse to integrate, that's the problem, and now that japanese integrate, they aren't a problem and people don't say anything about them
"they do not want their children measured against Asians during the critical four years of grades that will make up the bulk of college application materials."
Date: August 27th, 2016 5:41 PM Author: Ebony immigrant
if whites just sit sliently while all evils and ills are heaped upon them, then we can have harmony. but if whites play the game too, all hell will break loose.
Date: August 27th, 2016 6:55 PM Author: violent misunderstood love of her life national
First, fukk USA whites, they are just inherently racist
Second, the bitch author doesn't get at the real issue, US whites are use to white privilege, they are use to a system and society that caters to whites so they dont have to work that hard or go out of their way to suceed, they get shit cause they are white. Most of these boomers grew up in that system when blacks were oppressed. Now they have Asians to compete with and it destroys their white privilege.
Suddenly the meritocracy that they always used as a whip against niggas to say blacks were shit cause they were lazy and could not compete is shitting on their own faces. Instead of telling their kids to fuking stop being bitches playin video games and smoking pot they instead blame the "other" and move to the next white suburb where they hope their precious loser Johnny can survive with his other retard white classmates.
Fuck Amerikkka, its shit like this that proves the prob in this country is cumskins, not anyone else. Its cumskins being racist entitled piles of trash. Why dont they learn to be civilized human beings instead of such racist lazy fucking trash? JFC
It is interesting that whites bash blacks for being dumb and lazy but attack Asians for working too hard. Also many of them mistakenly think they and their kids are entitled to great colleggs and jobs rather than earning it.
Date: August 27th, 2016 9:27 PM Author: marvelous rebellious idea he suggested kitty cat
Lmfao what bs hypocrisy. The NOWAGs are in the suburbs cuz they don't want to live next to blacks, and now they whine that whites don't want to live next to them. It's very sad how hard NOWAGs try to be white. Very sad!
Date: September 14th, 2016 2:37 PM Author: vigorous abnormal nibblets
japan - relatively clean and quite lovely and livable.
hk - barely livable, but ok.
china, korea - wealthier but lol you will literally get cancer from the contaminated food, water and air within a year of living their. will develop asthma by day 1 from air population.
Date: August 28th, 2016 12:53 AM Author: ocher pontificating cruise ship
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Little attention is given to the fact that Asians must earn anywhere from 50 to 140 points higher on the SAT to have an equal chance at college admission as whites.
Date: August 28th, 2016 1:05 PM Author: startled pink area
I think there's a urban-suburban divide here. Generally speaking, I think people who live in the burbs deliberately do so to avoid urban diversity, in addition to the economic reasons (high taxes, high COL, etc.). Because suburbs tend to be much more monolithic, there is a culture shock when immigrants move in over a fairly short time period. Then, when it results in increased academic competition, the parents will feel concern. I don't think that makes them racist. In contrast, us urban professionals thrive on racial diversity; amongst this group, what matters much more than race is education, class, job, and urban tastes.
A lot of Trump's support comes from not economic resentment or racism per se but this sense of cultural and social nostalgia, whereby one dreams of an America that was monolithic and where things were just a lot easier. Trump supporters look back fondly to say the 1950's when everyone shared the same background and values and one can work at a factory for years while providing a great living to his family. It is precisely the combination of technological progress, immigration from non-European countries, and increased competition for good jobs, that have resulted in a lot of discontent with the status quo. As much as I despise Trump and think my fellow Republicans made an EPIC debacle of historic proportion in nominating him, I TOTALLY get why a lot of people support him. And I think liberals should at least try to show some empathy towards them to better understand why they feel this way rather than dismissing their concerns as racism and xenophobia.
Date: August 28th, 2016 8:34 PM Author: awkward flirting personal credit line
I grew up at a time when white flight was taking place in the neighborhood we lived in It goes further than cries of racism or ethnocentrism. Asian American culture is very different from standard American culture, even at the higher end of the socio economic ladder. The same things are not celebrated, revered, or sought after.
Date: August 28th, 2016 8:44 PM Author: awkward flirting personal credit line
my neighborhood saw an influx of Tiger parents and UMC strivers come in. The few asian bros whose parents immigrated in the early 80's and didn't grow up around a bunch of other strivers were chill as fuck. The one Korean bro I had was a legit bad ass and was raised by a single mom. Don't think it's a race issue as much as its an issue of shifting cultural norms and identity.
Date: August 28th, 2016 10:57 PM Author: Curious theater stage
It's not a case of being smarter. These families don't want their children's childhoods dedicated to studying and meaningless but "impressive" extracurriculars. It's just a different culture. And since class rank is so important to college admissions, it makes sense for them to move somewhere that they can raise their children how they would like without harming college admissions prospects.
Date: August 28th, 2016 11:15 PM Author: Cerise disrespectful stag film
I really don't think it has to do with any of this shit.
white people want to be around other white people but are never going to admit it. when an area reaches a critical minority threshold the whites start to move out with some bs excuse like the "strenuous academics".
Date: August 29th, 2016 1:41 PM Author: Smoky keepsake machete
I dunno. The Americanized Asians I know would rather live in majority white communities than immigrant Asian hell holes too. No one wants to compete with Asian kids if they can avoid it, including Asian kids.
Date: August 29th, 2016 1:25 PM Author: Orchid French Chef Orchestra Pit
I'm all for being smart and working hard, but there's always a line that crosses into mental illness.
Lyle McDonald wrote a great (and LONG) piece on why the USA sucks at Olympic weightlifting.
One of his reasons is because of how weightlifting is trained in other countries, which he illustrated using Bulgaria as an example. Bulgaria has been a highly successful country in O-lifting.
Of course, what Bulgaria essentially does, is hand pick tons of kids with great aptitude in the sport, dope them up, and train them non-stop. This has two results. First, TONS of lifters get BTFO and can never lift again, because of a combination of drugs and overtraining. Second, those who survive, tend to be outstanding lifters. Bulgaria doesn't really care about the 90%, because for them it's not about how many lifters are wrecked, but how many medals they win at the Olympics from a small pool of athletes.
The USA, of course, is completely different in its training approach.
I don't necessarily see why it's per se hypocritical for suburban whites to want safe, academic-oriented schools, on the one hand, but eschew schools that have tons of mentally-ill strivers, on the other hand. I certainly think it's reasonable for parents to want their kids to study and learn, but also for them to opt out of the studying arms race.
Date: August 29th, 2016 1:34 PM Author: Hairraiser transparent site telephone
why do you assume that kids who work super hard because they are self-motivated, are "mentally-ill?" is it simply because they are asian? do you think driven white kids are also mentally ill?
Working THAT hard to master mundane high-school/introductory college topics or to prep for standardized tests is just not a valuable use of time, and drifts into mental illness. A lot of it is just busywork. Better to work hard enough to learn the material well, but spend the rest of the time on some personal interests.
Date: August 29th, 2016 1:41 PM Author: Razzle massive jewess
1. It's often not that the kids are driven. It comes from up top (and usually heavily from the mom).
2. It's the entire culture that it brings when 25-75% of a student body is just memorizing the shit out of things, and going to after-school tutoring to get a leg up.
3. It hurts athletics, dating, goofing off, sleepovers with friends, and the other normal parts of being a kid that are completely lost on the study-study-study people.
Date: August 29th, 2016 1:44 PM Author: Hairraiser transparent site telephone
kids in general are heavily influenced by their parents, regardless of race.
but i think the key point is this: asians are simply responding rationally to a highly competitive college admissions system that is stacked against them. asian kids know that they have to be significantly stronger applicants than white/black/latino to get into the same college. thus, i don't blame them for putting in the extra legwork to get stuff done.
tbf, they would probably do better and have an easier time if they didn't all cluster in the same schools. They end up just competing against each other.
Date: September 14th, 2016 1:32 PM Author: Supple Institution
Dear white liberals,
I am going to pervert the term "diversity" and define it in a narrow self-serving way, and then accuse you of being hypocritical when you act contrary to my narrow, self-serving definition.
Date: September 14th, 2016 2:56 PM Author: Unhinged Mother
I've seen this happen to a certain extent to my childhood community and nearby communities as well and while there is an element of xenophobia involved, it's perfectly understandable. We had a neighboring HS known for its large Asian and Indian population ~40-50% but it also had a significant white population too. Their school had a prestigious magnet program that my parents tried to force me to go to and I had other middle school friends whose parents forced them to attend. Luckily, I didn't go but my friends that did went for 1 year had 8 hrs of homework freshman year and came back to my HS completely burnt out. They weren't even white but complained about striver asians and how miserable it was.
I'm Asian, and even I wouldn't want myself or my kids to be surrounded entirely by Asians. I wouldn't really want a monolithic culture either. As much shit as multiculturalism gets on this board, that's the ideal learning environment. You want your kids to be exposed to different people of different backgrounds so they don't grow up ignorant. For some reason, XO equates multiculturalism with violent, low IQ minorities or robotic, high-achieving Asians. The problem is when you get too many Asians, hispanics or blacks. Then your nice little white kid gets marginalized. the same thing happens to a minority in an all-white school. the happy medium is when there is a significant number of each group to prevent the marginalization of any one.
Date: October 16th, 2016 2:20 PM Author: Exhilarant International Law Enforcement Agency
Multiculturalism was a mistake. A well meaning mistake perhaps, but a mistake. It makes things more complicated, and it's kind of unnatural. It's probably best for people to stick to their own kind.