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criminal defense
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:21 PM Author: Irradiated address Subject: Criminal Defense I am working at a biglaw firm this summer and hate it. I am thinking about doing criminal defense after I do a clerkship (which I will hopefully get). How much can I expect to make as a starting salary at a small crim firm in los angeles (perferably san fernando valley)? What could I expect to make 5 years into it? What kind of hours would I be looking at? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127144) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:23 PM Author: lake idiot ticket booth 40-60K/yr 60-120K/yr 30-40 of actual work, lot of driving to and from jail and court though that bumps it to 50hrs. 70 to 80 hrs/week during trials (rare) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:56 PM Author: Irradiated address when you say 30-40 hours of actual work, what kind of work do criminal attorneys do? I can't imagine too many memos or written product. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127461) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 8:00 PM Author: lake idiot ticket booth meeting with clients, discussing the case, talking to ADAs about the case, requesting evidence, formating a strategy to plea the case down, and occasionally writing motions (lots of clients want to expunge records, appeal etc.) but you just use a lot of boiler plate because they're going to lose anyway. It's very rare that you find a case that may actually win b/c the person got fucked by the system and you'll actually put effort into your motion writing. otherwise it's all boilerplate you just copy and paste, easy as shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127493) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 8:02 PM Author: vivacious sound barrier shrine it really depends. obviously, i'm assuming you mean trial-level work only; appellate is totally different.
first, you're in court a lot. courts don't move quickly, nor do they move for your convenience. there's a lot of downtime.
as far as office work, there are really three big areas - discovery review, motion practice, and trial prep. They're all connected. You need to carefully review all the info the cops are going to put on your client to ID any potential pre-trial motion issues. Then you need to research them and file the appropriate paperwork. Then you need to prep for the hearing.
In preparing for preliminary hearings, motion hearings, and trials, you need to kind of forecast what the cops are going to say so that you can research any potential evidence rule issues you may be raising (in an attempt to make the judge keep out bad stuff about your client).
At a certain point, it gets old hand, but it probably takes 6-8 years to be comfortable enough to do that stuff off the cuff.
Also, clients are crazy and make unreasonable demands on your time. This is a big time waster. |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:46 PM Author: big karate mental disorder why do you hate it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127394) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:51 PM Author: Irradiated address Well, the hours are terrible, impossible to maintain significant hobbies, I want to have a family and spend a large amount of time with them. It is really scary when you ask people in your office what they do for fun and they can't think of anything they do but work. Also, one partner told me that they work so hard they don't even remember their 20s and early 30s. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127427) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:52 PM Author: big karate mental disorder FUCK. that's exactly what i fear. Do the associates and partners at least joke around with other, seem like they hang out occasionally, have good camraderie? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127437) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 7:58 PM Author: Irradiated address Ya they are a social sometimes. But in reality, when you work at a big firm, you pretty much live in a 12x12 office, all alone, for most of the day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12127476) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 8:02 PM Author: bronze glittery lettuce doctorate I am in the same boat. Doing endless amounts of discovery and researching asinine points of law carries no appeal whatsoever. Though, the prospect of dealing with the dregs of society doing crim defense seems equally repulsive.
I think I am going to go be a talent agent or something. |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 9:53 PM Author: Irradiated address bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12128364) |
Date: June 30th, 2009 11:07 PM Author: Comical impressive liquid oxygen rehab your income potential will shoot up if you work as an ADA first (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12128938) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 11:44 PM Author: Irradiated address what kind of hours do ADAs usually work? What about an AUSA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1030954&forum_id=2#12129311) |
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Date: June 30th, 2009 11:49 PM Author: Comical impressive liquid oxygen rehab ADAs? Generally 9-5 or so. Obviously, hours are a ton longer if there's a big trial going on. In big cities hours can be weird if you're assigned to night court or homicide call. So, you could be working a week of 4pm-12am here and there for your first year.
AUSAs? Probably similar, though maybe a little longer on average. This may be biased though -- I interned in a big city USAO back in the day and all the AUSAs I knew came from firms and worked 9-10 until 7 or 8 at night even doing god knows what. |