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anyone here ever finish infinite jest

i did 400 pages
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
I did 40
Big Turquoise Parlour
  07/15/20
nice
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
Never tried.
bossy thirsty ladyboy faggot firefighter
  07/15/20
poast moniker synergy
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
yeah
Vivacious Fuchsia Electric Furnace
  07/15/20
should i read the other 600 pages
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
eh... did you LIKE the first 400 pages? imo in some sense t...
Vivacious Fuchsia Electric Furnace
  07/15/20
agree with this. if you don't want to put in that much time ...
Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market
  07/15/20
...
Big Turquoise Parlour
  07/15/20
yeah i thought it was great but then i started reading anoth...
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
Yeah.
Trip narrow-minded queen of the night step-uncle's house
  07/15/20
yeah
Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market
  07/15/20
by the time i got it i didn't have a ton of time to devote t...
Multi-colored Patrolman
  07/15/20
I did finish, after like a month and a half. I regret it.
Underhanded state crotch
  07/15/20
faggot
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
whok probably did
Milky gas station
  07/15/20
shit, pure shit
Kink-friendly Razzle-dazzle Lodge Nibblets
  07/15/20
It is shocking how dated and frivolous that book seems now. ...
bearded skinny woman
  07/15/20
titcr
Kink-friendly Razzle-dazzle Lodge Nibblets
  07/15/20
That's always the vibe I got of this book
Blathering razzmatazz hall
  07/15/20
...
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
You must not have understood it. It's more relevant than ev...
Spruce boyish forum new version
  07/15/20
i wonder why he thought cartridges would be the next medium ...
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
The specific technology (which feels dated as fuck) is much ...
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
yeah im not a fucking retard okay? i read 400 pages of infin...
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
interesting
Blathering razzmatazz hall
  07/15/20
agree and disagree. it did not predict today's social and po...
Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market
  07/15/20
i think the fixation on addiction and substance abuse is sor...
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
some would even consider xo the Ultimate Entertainment
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
...
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
some?
Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market
  07/15/20
...
Spruce boyish forum new version
  07/15/20
...
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
lol fuck no i threw it in the trash after ~40% of it or so ...
Sienna Concupiscible House Jew
  07/15/20
I got like 120 pages in and then I was like "Why the fu...
stimulating claret national stain
  07/15/20
yes. 30% of it is interesting, in a conventional way. the re...
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
Yes, it becomes a real page-turner around page 203. By page...
Spruce boyish forum new version
  07/15/20
cr
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
...
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
Nope. Still sitting on the shelf and will probably never be ...
obsidian casino
  07/15/20
Yes. It's my favorite novel and I don't just use that line t...
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
okay dave
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
...
obsidian casino
  07/15/20
Cr. It's 1100 pages long on large pages with small type and...
Spruce boyish forum new version
  07/15/20
the prose is godawful
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
Huge spritezero fan here. Big poaster. Full respect. You...
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
disagree
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
what books do you like
Blathering razzmatazz hall
  07/15/20
authors i like: pynchon, joyce, fitzgerald, flaubert
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
Nabokov? what do you like by Joyce?
Blathering razzmatazz hall
  07/15/20
i dig nabakov. i like everything abt joyce. have not read fi...
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
nobody has ever read finnegan's wake
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
No apostrophe come on man
orange area corn cake
  07/15/20
Harold Bloom: Asked about novelist David Foster Wallace,...
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
ins't he famous for penning a screed about western canon or ...
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
yeah
Lascivious feces
  07/15/20
good man, but. Jewish. can't escape that
chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks
  07/15/20
fair
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
I'd agree that DFW's prose style works against him at least ...
Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market
  07/15/20
i agree--my copy of IJ has a few paragraphs and sentences m...
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
Lmao “But Stephen King is Cervantes compared with Dav...
orange area corn cake
  07/15/20
this critique seems pretty accurate: [T]he novel's Pynchones...
magenta house-broken business firm
  07/15/20
It is the Great American Novel
olive school
  07/15/20
I became extremely annoyed with it after about 50 pages and ...
alcoholic angry chad knife
  07/15/20
That's crazy. If you're not enjoying a book you should quit...
Spruce boyish forum new version
  07/15/20
Sometimes you gotta keep going though to make sure, e.g. Rab...
orange area corn cake
  07/15/20
I read it when I was unemployed, which helped a lot I think....
Bright international law enforcement agency
  07/15/20
it's up there w moby dick for best written work by an americ...
Adulterous Bisexual Office Yarmulke
  07/16/20
I could never get through IJ. Really enjoyed Oblivion (in p...
Grizzly church building
  07/16/20


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:46 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

i did 400 pages

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614435)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:47 PM
Author: Big Turquoise Parlour

I did 40

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614443)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:49 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

nice

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614458)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:50 PM
Author: bossy thirsty ladyboy faggot firefighter

Never tried.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614474)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:51 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

poast moniker synergy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614481)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:53 PM
Author: Vivacious Fuchsia Electric Furnace

yeah

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614492)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:54 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

should i read the other 600 pages

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614495)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:58 PM
Author: Vivacious Fuchsia Electric Furnace

eh... did you LIKE the first 400 pages? imo in some sense the rest is going to be 'kind of what you expect' in many ways, even though that sounds paradoxical for a novel that is very original, unusual and defies categorization like probably no book has since early Pynchon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614510)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:03 PM
Author: Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market

agree with this. if you don't want to put in that much time and you haven't read Oblivion, just read that instead

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614532)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:05 PM
Author: Big Turquoise Parlour



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614545)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:34 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

yeah i thought it was great but then i started reading another book or something

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614691)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 7:59 PM
Author: Trip narrow-minded queen of the night step-uncle's house

Yeah.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614516)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:00 PM
Author: Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market

yeah

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614517)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:00 PM
Author: Multi-colored Patrolman

by the time i got it i didn't have a ton of time to devote to books, especially ones that long. so no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614523)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:05 PM
Author: Underhanded state crotch

I did finish, after like a month and a half. I regret it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614544)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:44 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

faggot

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614745)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:06 PM
Author: Milky gas station

whok probably did

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614553)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:36 PM
Author: Kink-friendly Razzle-dazzle Lodge Nibblets

shit, pure shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614700)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:37 PM
Author: bearded skinny woman

It is shocking how dated and frivolous that book seems now. We were so silly in the 90s. It was nice.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614705)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:41 PM
Author: Kink-friendly Razzle-dazzle Lodge Nibblets

titcr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614726)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:41 PM
Author: Blathering razzmatazz hall

That's always the vibe I got of this book

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614728)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:43 PM
Author: Lascivious feces



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614741)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:49 PM
Author: Spruce boyish forum new version

You must not have understood it. It's more relevant than ever.

Just this year companies have started releasing software that makes your face look better on video chats.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614774)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:51 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

i wonder why he thought cartridges would be the next medium for storing entertainment bullshit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614784)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:52 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

The specific technology (which feels dated as fuck) is much less relevant than the general feelings of dread and ennui that a world of meaningless striving evokes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614794)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:53 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

yeah im not a fucking retard okay? i read 400 pages of infinite jest. i know things.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614796)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:04 PM
Author: Blathering razzmatazz hall

interesting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614875)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:51 PM
Author: Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market

agree and disagree. it did not predict today's social and political strife, but the concept of non-stop "entertainment" weaponized against us certainly resonates

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614786)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:54 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

i think the fixation on addiction and substance abuse is sort of prescient

lots of people living in despair with some dying

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614801)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:55 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

some would even consider xo the Ultimate Entertainment

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614805)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:55 PM
Author: Lascivious feces



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614809)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:57 PM
Author: Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market

some?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614824)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 11:38 PM
Author: Spruce boyish forum new version



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615643)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:59 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614840)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:37 PM
Author: Sienna Concupiscible House Jew

lol fuck no i threw it in the trash after ~40% of it or so

swordmo keeps telling me its a work of art but what does he know

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614706)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:37 PM
Author: stimulating claret national stain

I got like 120 pages in and then I was like "Why the fuck am i reading this?" and then stopped.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614707)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:37 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

yes. 30% of it is interesting, in a conventional way. the rest is garbage

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614710)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:39 PM
Author: Spruce boyish forum new version

Yes, it becomes a real page-turner around page 203. By page 400 you kind of understand what's going on.

I mean that sincerely. I have really strong visual memories from that book. It's really really good.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614719)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:40 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614724)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:44 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614753)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:45 PM
Author: obsidian casino

Nope. Still sitting on the shelf and will probably never be read

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614756)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:47 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

Yes. It's my favorite novel and I don't just use that line to get laid (but it has worked)

DFW has a rare command over the written word, and it's a joy to experience. It's a book that makes you FEEL and THINK but lets you decide how much energy you'll put into these charges. And the reward is great, if the effort is there.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614761)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:47 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

okay dave

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614765)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:48 PM
Author: obsidian casino



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614769)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:48 PM
Author: Spruce boyish forum new version

Cr. It's 1100 pages long on large pages with small type and every sentence is perfectly crafted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614772)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:50 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

the prose is godawful

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614776)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:51 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

Huge spritezero fan here. Big poaster. Full respect.

You're wrong.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614785)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:53 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

disagree

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614795)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:03 PM
Author: Blathering razzmatazz hall

what books do you like

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614871)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:07 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

authors i like: pynchon, joyce, fitzgerald, flaubert

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614898)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:08 PM
Author: Blathering razzmatazz hall

Nabokov?

what do you like by Joyce?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614906)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:10 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

i dig nabakov. i like everything abt joyce. have not read finnegan's wake tho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614916)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:30 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

nobody has ever read finnegan's wake

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615029)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 11:46 PM
Author: orange area corn cake

No apostrophe come on man

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615657)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:56 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

Harold Bloom:

Asked about novelist David Foster Wallace, who took his own life in 2008, but who has a new book out, “The Pale King: An Unfinished Novel,” put together from manuscript chapters and files found in his computer, Bloom says, “You know, I don’t want to be offensive. But ‘Infinite Jest’ [regarded by many as Wallace’s masterpiece] is just awful. It seems ridiculous to have to say it. He can’t think, he can’t write. There’s no discernible talent.”

It’s all a clear indication, Bloom notes, of the decline of literary standards. He was upset in 2003 when the National Book Award gave a special award to Stephen King. “But Stephen King is Cervantes compared with David Foster Wallace. We have no standards left. [Wallace] seems to have been a very sincere and troubled person, but that doesn’t mean I have to endure reading him. I even resented the use of the term from Shakespeare, when Hamlet calls the king’s jester Yorick, ‘a fellow of infinite jest.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614814)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:57 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

ins't he famous for penning a screed about western canon or something

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614829)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:59 PM
Author: Lascivious feces

yeah

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614848)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:00 PM
Author: chestnut insanely creepy wagecucks

good man, but. Jewish. can't escape that

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614854)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:03 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

fair

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614870)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:59 PM
Author: Soul-stirring harsh personal credit line market

I'd agree that DFW's prose style works against him at least as often as it works for him. I think he had solid ideas and insight though

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614841)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:02 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

i agree--my copy of IJ has a few paragraphs and sentences marked up. but IJ didn't have a big, unifying idea interesting enuff to carry a book of that size. dfw's shorter, nonfiction stuff is pretty good.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614866)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 11:47 PM
Author: orange area corn cake

Lmao

“But Stephen King is Cervantes compared with David Foster Wallace."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615661)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:58 PM
Author: magenta house-broken business firm

this critique seems pretty accurate: [T]he novel's Pynchonesque elements...feel rather willed and secondhand. They are impressive in the manner of a precocious child's performance at a dinner party, and, in the same way, ultimately irritating: they seem motivated, mostly, by a desire to show off."

dfw was a gen-x/poor man's pynchon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614834)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 8:58 PM
Author: olive school

It is the Great American Novel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614836)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 9:13 PM
Author: alcoholic angry chad knife

I became extremely annoyed with it after about 50 pages and decided to cut my losses. This may be the only book I started and never finished. Just found it exhausting to read and not enjoyable at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40614932)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 11:40 PM
Author: Spruce boyish forum new version

That's crazy. If you're not enjoying a book you should quit reading it and start another one. You'll never run out of good books and you might be wasting time on bad ones.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615648)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 11:49 PM
Author: orange area corn cake

Sometimes you gotta keep going though to make sure, e.g. Rabbit tetralogy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615664)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 15th, 2020 11:47 PM
Author: Bright international law enforcement agency

I read it when I was unemployed, which helped a lot I think. It's so much to absorb, and it really comes together at the end in a more rewarding way if you don't read it over, say, 3 months. The good passages in IJ are as good as anything I've ever read, like the suicide attempt, or the eschaton game, or the Mt. Dilaudid part.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40615659)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2020 9:15 AM
Author: Adulterous Bisexual Office Yarmulke

it's up there w moby dick for best written work by an america. I have read it twice. the chapter on eschatology is the best thing anyone has ever written

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40616595)



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Date: July 16th, 2020 11:11 AM
Author: Grizzly church building

I could never get through IJ. Really enjoyed Oblivion (in particular commentary on GC, eg a food company naming an indulgent candy bar "Felony!" to commoditize transgression in a profitable way). And the NYT sports "Federer as religious experience" is great. Collected essays on descriptivism vs prescriptivism, consider the lobster, etc were all interesting. But he's a little self indulgent for 1100 pages? I'm sure there are passages I would enjoy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4585875&forum_id=2#40617178)