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UVA OCI
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:00 AM Author: Beta magical therapy Subject: Oh the humanity..... Interview schedules are out and it is brutal.... how brutal?
Dead on median, only 6 interviews, all lottery picks, no preselection
*killself* |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:02 AM Author: flushed school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392868) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:03 AM Author: Beta magical therapy what market did you apply to? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392871) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:04 AM Author: flushed school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392874) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:06 AM Author: Beta magical therapy Wow, same here, I guess i'm just not that lucky, lol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392887) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:03 AM Author: comical electric furnace now guess which one of the posters above is female. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392872) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:15 PM Author: pearly charismatic gunner lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400721) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:06 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392890) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:07 AM Author: Blue water buffalo Can't you complain about this? I don't understand how you can have eight and someone else can have 15. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392897) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:10 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi Where do you go to school? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392920) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:16 AM Author: Blue water buffalo cls (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392965) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:20 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi cool dood. stfo of our threads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393007) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:22 AM Author: Blue water buffalo why teh h8 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393013) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:50 PM Author: crawly sooty corner cuck The burning shame of picking the wrong career path makes people irrationally angry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396265) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:08 AM Author: Milky Public Bath What is the norm like?
i had literally tons of oci interviews. i had like 8 in three days. and that's the whole oci season for you guys? |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:08 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392902) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:10 AM Author: Blue water buffalo You seriously need to complain. That is ridiculous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392917) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:13 AM Author: Beta magical therapy I was thinking conservative at 10-15 interviews, but 6... SIX!!!!!!
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Date: July 31st, 2009 12:52 PM Author: submissive emerald background story How can you complain to UVA about this though? The firms didn't select you. It's not UVA's fault. Granted the half-PS system might disadvantage you, but you came into the class knowing it was this way, and in fact it got better (raised the bid number) after you arrived.
I'm slightly above median and I had 8-9 preselects but only two were shitty NY/DC/LA firms and the rest were secondary markets I have a close tie to. I imagine the top students are likely swimming in preselect offers and some waitlist/offers will open up. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:02 PM Author: bipolar cuckoldry casino Either you don't go to UVA or you're dense. The complaint people have is that UVA didn't reduce the number of bids that everyone gets to offset the far fewer number of firms that came to OGI, resulting in shit like the post below where some dude got 37 preselects, and other dudes get zero lottery. He obviously didn't need anywhere near the # of bids he got, and reducing the number of bids to everyone would have resulted in a more even distribution. Sure, some people will say that UVA couldn't have foreseen that firms were going to pull out, but I'd stake a lot on the fact that far fewer firms signed up for OGI this year than last year, even before the pull-outs, which should have suggested to CSO that bids should be reduced. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394163) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:00 PM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier why the fuck should he be penalized b/c of your shitty grades? If he is fucking LR and top 10% or whatever, he deserves all the interviews he gets. Maybe if you weren't so fucking average, you would land some preselects too. Have fun working in alabama at mid law, if you are lucky.
also, maybe like 20% of the people i knew got lotto offers....doesnt look good for you. Maybe you can blame uva for not giving you As for your shitty work |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:08 PM Author: vibrant wrinkle titcr. They probably complained to their professors about their Bs and B+s too.
WAAAAAAHHH I'm average and no one wants me. WAAAAAHHHH |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:11 AM Author: House-broken piazza karate WTF (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392924) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:13 AM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan Barely above median.
12 interviews, 2 of which were preselect and for 1 of which I was also an alternate.
1 additional alternate. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:15 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi If I didn't get any pre-selects at the median with previous WE , that means that probably half the class also didn't get a single one. Nice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392961) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:24 AM Author: Beta magical therapy I think it was my TTTTTTTT undergrad that did me in, I have 2 years WE at an accounting firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393028) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:32 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi I also went to a TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT undergrad. That could be it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393105) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:35 AM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan Unlikely. I also went to a TTTTTTTT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393134) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:52 PM Author: Talented tanning salon halford why don't you just go back to accounting if you strike out? i'd drop out and go back to that. seriously dude, at least you have some useful WE and a legit degree (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394511) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 12:54 PM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction holy shit... what the fuck is going to happen to the bottom half of the class? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394093) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 7:46 PM Author: heady ape volcanic crater 3.18 urm. made sure everyone knew it from my resume. 18 preselects DC, 5 preselects SanFran. hahahahaha! i bet you wish you were me now!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396891) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:27 AM Author: submissive emerald background story 3.18 urm. made sure everyone knew it from my resume. 18 preselects DC, 5 preselects SanFran. hahahahaha! i bet you wish you were me now!! ------------- Given the lack of URMs at UVA and the San Francisco giveaway in your moniker, If you posted real info here, you are effectively outed. |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:33 AM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction i know who you are (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12398942) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:03 AM Author: heady ape volcanic crater good. that way you can call me 6 years from now when you need a job -- i'll probably be head of the hiring committee at my top-5 dc firm.
out. |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:04 AM Author: irradiated cumskin doctorate Yeah dude. That's probably what you'll be. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400392) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:10 AM Author: Obsidian degenerate generalized bond SFBALLER: So you have the standard 6-year partnership track, right? Interviewer (thinking): I know we have lower standards for minorities, but JESUS this kid is dumb. |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:24 AM Author: heady ape volcanic crater who cares. it's not like associates contribute anything anyway -- whether they had a 3.1 or 3.9. But at least their american lawyer rankings will go up. bam! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400503) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 10:17 AM Author: smoky demanding home http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1020256&forum_id=2&PHPSESSID=8d5budios#12012202
Lies. |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:02 AM Author: heady ape volcanic crater hey chief -- i said top 1/3 b/c i bumped myself up for the urm status. i didn't wanna out myself, but now i don't care. i'm going to a top 5 DC firm w/ a 3.18 and no journal!! hahahahahha! have fun at ogi... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400384) |
Date: July 31st, 2009 10:15 AM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann Do you all feel like you just targeted too high? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392959) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:16 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392968) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:19 AM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann Yikes.
Maybe people higher up in the class bid lower than they needed to out of fear and firms just snatched them up? Or maybe you bid a little too low? I mean, some people warned against bidding all lower V100 or non-Vault because they're in the worst shape and will have the smallest class sizes . . . |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:11 PM Author: vibrant wrinkle "My two alternates are <10 person firms, in a small city, that do toxic-tort defense."
Are you stupid? Those may be shiTTTy firms, but they won't be the easiest at which to get jobs...they're looking for 1 and only 1 student out of all who applied. You prob. had a better chance of getting a spot at H&W or even Skadden than those shiTTTy places. Picking "the shittiest firms available" is a dumb strategy unless you account for firm size. You only have yourself to blame.
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:19 AM Author: Beta magical therapy Subject: Brutal Once again I thought I went really conservative V50-100, I even dug down lower than that for bids. I followed GPA requirements and didn't stretch anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392992) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:16 AM Author: Beta magical therapy Subject: How likely? I was an alternate for a few firms... How likely is it ITE that i pick up one or two alternates?
My some LR student got more than 30 preselects and will throw some bones to the rest of us. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:17 AM Author: flushed school if it says alternate, but still shows up in the scheduled interviews tab, we get that interview for sure...right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392976) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:19 AM Author: Histrionic tan windowlicker Yeah, you do. You won that one through the lottery, but the firm liked you enough to at least make you a pre-select alternate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392996) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:20 AM Author: flushed school awesome....ty very much (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393006) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:17 AM Author: comical electric furnace ppl getting the dozens of interviews right on or around median:
what does ur resume look like? ivy undergrad? targeting IP w/grad school or work experience that matches? work history in the secondary market where u got more pre-selects?
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:25 AM Author: Histrionic tan windowlicker I'd be willing to bet median people with lots of interviews avoided DC. EVERYONE, it seems, is bidding there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393036) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:28 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi That would make sense. I bid on DC, and northern VA, and got nothing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393070) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:31 AM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan That was dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393096) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:09 PM Author: contagious lettuce When I was at UVA, granted shit was a lot better, DC was a mess. I think of like 80 DC bids I might have gotten 7 DC on campus interviews? I do know that I turned one of my lottery interviews into a callback I never went on.
For Chicago, I think I had 10 bids turn into 6 on campus interviews, 4 callbacks and 3 offers. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:29 AM Author: flushed school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393073) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:29 AM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan Mediocre state school undergrad, 1 year WE as a non-Vault paralegal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393076) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:30 AM Author: maroon mildly autistic trailer park haunted graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393086) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:19 AM Author: Passionate Sienna Rigor Pozpig If you only get a few lotto interviews and another person gets a ton, doesn't that just mean (a) they have better grades and were able to bid on more firms, (b) that you bid like shit, or (c) you were just extremely unlucky? I assume it would be a mix of all 3. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12392989) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:22 AM Author: Beta magical therapy Grades have nothing to do with the lottery.... If you get preselected then it decreases your chance of getting extra lottery picks. I'd say b and c but like I said above I followed firms recommended preferences and bid low hoping to counteract ITE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393022) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:34 AM Author: Passionate Sienna Rigor Pozpig I meant in the sense that someone with higher grades could put a firm that requires high grades lower on their bid list and still potentially get the firm b/c there is a limited number of students realistically bidding on it. They are competing for bids among a small group of students. Someone bidding on median or below median firms is bidding on firms that the entire class is biddign on, so they are probably much less likely to get a lower bid. they are competing with the entire class.
I know this was probably the case at my school. I have good grades and I was able to snag some fairly low bids b/c they had high GPA requirements and most people in the class must not have bid on them at all knowing they had no shot at them. I know off hand that I have double the bids of another person in a pure lotto system. Admittiedly, I don't know how OCI at UVA works. Regardless though, that sucks I'm sorry. I hope you get something from one of those. I know it isn't much, but remember you only need 1 offer. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:38 AM Author: Aggressive Chestnut Indian Lodge Corn Cake It's definitely (b) and (c). You can waste all your lottery points (25? that's what I think it was in 2006) on Cravath with a 3.0, and you'll get the interview with Cravath. (My year of OGI, a friend with a GPA like that -- who already had a job offer in hand from 1L summer -- decided to get himself an interview with Cravath just for the lulz.) If people only have six interviews, and all of them are lottery picks, that means they didn't bid right and probably focused almost exclusively on markets where there are 300 other people looking. Those other 300 people may not have bid right either, but there's only so many lottery slots, so some people are bound to get shut out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393154) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:43 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi The problem is that this year, after all the firms dropped out/cut the number of rooms they had in half, there was only a fraction of the total number of bids available in most years, but students could still pick 50 and keep 30 interviews. It screwed everyone outside of the top 1/3, or maybe top 1/4. I know someone in the top 1/4 who only got 7 pre-selects. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393188) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:43 AM Author: Aggressive Chestnut Indian Lodge Corn Cake Well that really is just shitty. They should have reworked the number of interviews you can keep accordingly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393192) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:45 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi Yeah. I guess they had no way of knowing far enough ahead what would happen. We went from 239 firms to 209 or something, and MANY cut back on the number of rooms and cities they were interviewing for.
Do you remember how many firms were listed your year? |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:48 AM Author: Aggressive Chestnut Indian Lodge Corn Cake No clue, but it was a whole lot, and with the exception of a few firms, just about all their offices.
EDIT: Of course, for some of those "all their offices" places, you'd be interviewing for a Denver office with the guy they sent down for DC who just handles all applicants at UVA over like 2 days, but you get the point. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 8:02 PM Author: awkward center kitty I want to say there were over 300 firms when I did OGI.
The Career Services Office has had this problem in the past. By giving the top kids more slots than they need, some people get shut out. Looks like it's spread way past the bottom 10%, though. That sucks. It's brutal out here, and I don't think it's coming back anytime soon. The biglaw pyramid was ridiculous. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:31 AM Author: adventurous set ratface dude, stop complaining. if you had gotten those interviews you preslected for through lottery, they would have dinged you based on grades anyway. you weren't going to WOW THEM WITH YOUR GREAT WORK EXPERIENCE AND SPARKLING PERSONALITY. stop deluding yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393095) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:34 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi No shit sherlock. You don't understand what we're talking about in here, so GTFO. You just clicked on a UVA thread, piped in with the only thing you know about UVA (prescreening is good! you can't win firms over with personalties) and thought you'd comment.
No one cares what you think. HTFH. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 10:37 AM Author: thriller office Top third, 25 interviews, a bunch of preselects. NY/DC. Rock on bitchesss (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393147) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 12:39 PM Author: Beta magical therapy I talked to a couple of my friends and got their interview info.
One was above median (think top 40%) Ivy UG, no WE and got 12 interviews 8 lottery and 4 preselects. Mostly NY market
The other was top 10% LR and got 38 interviews, 37 preselect and one lottery, DC market
So i guess it's a possibility that one or two of those alternates could turn into interviews |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 12:40 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi Thanks for the update. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12393994) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 8:04 PM Author: awkward center kitty I think there is a good chance the alternates could work out.
The system was much better years ago when interviews were spread out. The top kids would get settled quickly, leaving many more interview slots open for the rest of the student body. Early interviews condense things too much and really hurt a chunk of the student body while offering no real benefit to the top kids.
This is the easiest thing for UVa to fix, but they refuse to do so. |
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Date: August 3rd, 2009 10:22 PM Author: Flirting big-titted area good post, ty.
if that asshole with 37 interviews doesnt drop about half of them, he's an asshole. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 12:45 PM Author: smoky demanding home Wow, I thought I was fucked with slightly above median and 13 preselects, 18 total. Sucks to be you guys. I mostly targeted my hometown secondary market and NYC, did you guys only target DC or something. I don't understand how people ~median can have low single digits (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394031) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 12:56 PM Author: submissive emerald background story Targeting secondary markets was key. 7 of my preselects came from that (out of 9 firms targeted) while I only got two other preselctes on shitty firms in a major LA/DC/NY market that I had no ties to.
How many of your preselects were in NYC? |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:02 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann Just out of curiosity, what secondary markets are heavily represented at UVA? (Represented at least to the point that you wouldn't have to bid on more than two markets to fill up your bids). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394159) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:05 PM Author: bipolar cuckoldry casino pretty much only VA and maybe Texas and Atlanta. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394185) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:08 PM Author: submissive emerald background story RIchmond, Houston, Charlotte, Raleigh, Wilmington, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Birmingham - each appeared to have 5+ employers interviewing. I imagine if you are from Raleigh and not at the bottom of the class it wouldn't be hard to be preselected by all of those employers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394212) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:13 PM Author: maroon mildly autistic trailer park haunted graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394254) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:17 PM Author: submissive emerald background story Yea that's a real x-factor. It may simply be they decided to not hire for NC branches; I kinda weirdly (based on grades and ties) didn't get preselected for a firm in my hometown that is interviewing for NYC and the hometown in the same room. Likely that the hometown office just is hiring few or no people (I hear they're in bad shape). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394267) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:10 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann I'm pretty shocked that anywhere in those markets would be doing well enough that they're hiring droves of people.
ETA -- I guess the exception would be Houston.
Also if a market has like 8 firms coming, for instance, you'd still have to bid on NYC or something instead of another secondary because if you did the latter you'd fall into the bidding too many markets to look serious trap? |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:14 PM Author: submissive emerald background story Firm in Birmingham picked up like 7 1L SA's this summer, I believe. Wouldn't you think that smaller, under-leveraged firms in smaller markets would be doing somewhat better?
I don't think anywhere is hiring droves of people, though. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:16 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann I mean, maybe insofar as they're underleveraged, but what the hell kind of work are they getting? A lot of those areas are doing as badly if not worse than NYC outside the legal sector.
Regardless, I'd rather work in insurance defense or be homeless than live somewhere like that. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:18 PM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction idk dude, COL in birmingham is probably SWeet, and lawyers are probably higher up on the food chain there compared to NYC. working ID in NY would make you a real poor. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394272) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:19 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann Have you ever spent time in Birmingham? Or anywhere in Alabama? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394274) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:20 PM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction no, although my uncle is a lawyer in Arkansas and loves it (he's actually a DC native). but i'd take midlaw in birmingham over WEMED or Stern&Montana in NYC. i'd killself, actually before taking a job like that in new york. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394284) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:25 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann I mean, I guess if someone really liked being outdoors or having a lot of land or something it would be great because you could afford to buy like a jetski and all sorts of expensive camping equipment or something. I knew a kid who was really rich in AL and they had a farm with peacocks.
But that's the thing -- if you have that kind of money down there you buy, like, a giant farm or former plantation or something, which is my personal hell. Also, I hate driving. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:27 PM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction your hell sounds pretty SWeet to me. my personal hell would be making <70K in NYC, plus making loan payments,and having to live in some ghetto shithole or mom's basement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394324) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:34 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann Yeah, I personally would rather barely get by in Brooklyn or something than live in the boonies with money. I guess the only benefit to the latter scenario for me would be saving up enough money to gtfo of there, but if you start out in a place like that no way will you ever make it back to the East Coast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394368) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:35 PM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction you will not be able to live in any nice part of brooklyn in said scenario.
maybe you could get by with roommates. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:36 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann Define "nice".
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:38 PM Author: Bossy Pink Feces Dysfunction not full of blackpoors and gunshots ringing through the night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394398) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:48 PM Author: Soul-stirring Low-t Institution Boltzmann So for you Bushwick would probably be out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394481) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:01 PM Author: Beta magical therapy I targeted NYC, which is also my hometown btw, but no love there. Maybe I fucked up my bidding process somehow, I bid on v50-v100 and below. To get only six total is just sad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394154) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:02 PM Author: mind-boggling whorehouse pocket flask someone explain UVA's system. how many bids you get, % interviews for lottery v. pre-select, etc. how is it that the more pre-selects you have, the fewer lottery picks you get? is there a formula? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394158) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:05 PM Author: bipolar cuckoldry casino 50 bids. 50% lottery, 50% preselect. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394196) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:11 PM Author: mind-boggling whorehouse pocket flask so 25 max lottery picks? looks like people are getting 6-10 lottery interviews. man that's pretty brutal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394243) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:48 PM Author: Talented tanning salon halford sucks, i had a feeling UVA would be pwned by their preselecTTT sysTTTem ITE
don't give them more of your money if you strike out. dropout |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:56 PM Author: mind-boggling whorehouse pocket flask the pre-select system is a factor, but people are also getting low numbers of lottery interviews. that's a bad sign for schools with 100% lottery. i'm not surprised if the average number of interviews is halved this year. if you're in the top 1/4 at another school, having pre-select may actually benefit you over a complete lottery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394532) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 1:58 PM Author: Talented tanning salon halford im a 0L and wondering what kind of atmosphere i'm walking into this fall. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394554) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 2:27 PM Author: submissive emerald background story People are angry, but I don't want to fault the system too much. If you're at the bottom 1/2, and have a great personality that would otherwise overcome your marginal grades, the preselect system kinda screws you (this year - other years it's more like bottom 3rd/quarter). You have to make sure to do some intelligent bidding in that case for your lottery picks.
Regardless, a lot of people are going to be missing out at BigLaw - both here and in other top schools - which may make the atmosphere tense. I guarantee you it will be less tense here than other places. ITE sucks balls, thank your stars you aren't C'O 2011.
(Edit: Your post seemed to imply you were coming to UVA which is why I wrote what I did). |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 2:32 PM Author: Talented tanning salon halford yeah, i'm glad I'm not c/o 2011 but have a feeling our class is not going to fare much better without some drastic upswing in the economy
i'm curious as to where people who wanted biglaw but don't get it are going to end up.. is career services making any strides to place people elsewhere, or are they as useless as everyone claims |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 2:38 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394837) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 2:41 PM Author: Talented tanning salon halford i hear you. i've been wrestling with it a lot, but obviously i've committed to it already - i have the apt, everything. also, my job prospects otherwise are pretty bleak, and the thought of continuing to live at my parents' house engaging in a futile job search is killself territory. i do have a really decent scholarship... i figured if i didn't do well 1L year i'd just drop out and not waste more time or money, but who knows if i'll be able to bring myself to go through with that.
so you don't think govt will be an option over the next couple of years? that's sort of disheartening to hear, because i was strongly considering gov work if grades allow |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 3:30 PM Author: submissive emerald background story I think people stress out because there is almost no information out there about how to go about getting positions in BigLaw alternatives. They do exist in government, smaller commercial lit places, etc. If you don't really want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school, but there will be jobs out there for T10 graduates. Perhaps not your ideal position, or multiple $160K starting salary job offers handed to you on a silver platter (as in years past), but the general "you will be homeless and sucking schlong" meme is overrated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395264) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 3:32 PM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395277) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 3:41 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi I've got a 20K a year scholarship, which is the only reason I'm not dropping out.
But, in hindsight, it would have made a lot more sense to take a full-ride at WUSTL, etc., because I doubt the job prospects will be that different for prosecutor/government stuff. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:02 PM Author: Ruddy Toaster Dog Poop is anyone you know thinking about it (dropping out) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395493) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:09 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi No, but I bet in a couple weeks I would have a different answer for you.
If a consulting/political/financial job came up now that paid 50K and looked secure, I'd drop out and take it. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:34 PM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan It didn't take OGI bid results to make me seriously consider at least a leave of absence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395751) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:38 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi I'm going to email someone at career services (admissions?) about that. Taking 2 or 3 years off to work wouldn't be awful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395785) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:05 PM Author: submissive emerald background story I think you're very wrong on that one. I think paying 60K more for a vastly superior degree is a great long term move, and the job prospects will be significantly better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395514) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:08 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi I always remember that it's another 15K to live on + books at UVa, but forget that cost would also be there at any other school, so you've got a point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395534) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:54 AM Author: Floppy shitlib To be fair, your lottery obviously sucks. We're 100% lottery and averaged around 25 interviews (might be more, actually, as everyone I've spoken to is in the 27-29 range). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12399088) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 2:22 PM Author: clear nofapping immigrant senate ouch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12394711) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:08 PM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier Why are you all bitching? If you have a 3.3, you are middle of the road and don't deserve interviews. Maybe if you worked harder and were at least top 1/3 you would have options. I don't mean to be shitty about it, but... It is dumb to think that in this climate, you are going to just stake by.
Also, lotto system has nothing to do with it. HTH. Also, I am V10 and a recent grad |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:11 PM Author: submissive emerald background story What exactly is median? It's curved to a 3.3 but A- are 3.7 while B's are 3.0; doesn't this mean the true median should be slightly above 3.3? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395547) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:12 PM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier 3.3 = b+. All courses are forced to grade on a 3.30 mean (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395556) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:14 PM Author: submissive emerald background story Ok thanks. I was remember that someone told me it has to be 10%A, 20%A-, 40B+, 20B, 10B-, but I guess it just normally works out that way instead of having to conform to it like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395577) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:30 PM Author: Aggressive Chestnut Indian Lodge Corn Cake Depends on the teacher. Abraham tends to give straight B+'s unless you teach him something new about the law. Klarman, when he was there, had a very broad curve. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395702) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:22 PM Author: vibrant wrinkle My Abraham A is the highpoint of my life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396071) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:15 AM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier the dude who finished number 1 my year got his only b+ in abraham....i laughed b/c he is a douche (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12398820) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:40 AM Author: abnormal cruise ship 08? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12399003) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:44 AM Author: vibrant wrinkle LOL fuck that faggot. 180. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12399028) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:36 PM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan False, if you look at the grading binder in the library you will see that the class means vary significantly in the hundredths place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395774) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:32 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi If only we had all worked harder and been in the top third...you're right! Thank you for your insight, V10 and recent grad! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395740) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:55 PM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier wouldn't apply across the board, but if you out work your peers, you should do better, that's all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395903) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:35 PM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan Glad to know that "middle of the road," aka "doing just fine," doesn't deserve interviews. What about third quartile? Jackass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395767) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:57 PM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier middle of the road = fucking average. In this econ, you shouldn't expect biglaw with a 3.3. You knew going in you needed to outperform your peers. It is a shitty situation, and sorry you won't be working at v50 or whatever, but don't fucking blame it on uva b/c that is fucking bush league as shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395913) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:20 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi e? No one is blaming anything on UVa - we're frustrated that it's a shitty situation, but it's obviously that way across the board at other schools too.
This thread is a chance for those of us in similar situations to commiserate, or talk things out. So maybe you could, you know, stay out of the thread? Assuming you're really a V10 attorney. And if you are, why are you posting here? |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:26 PM Author: vibrant wrinkle Maybe you could, you know, stop making the current students at our school look like whining little pricks who complain because of their own mediocre circumstances?
There are a lot of threads like this about OCI at other schools, but this one is on top for pure bitchiness, so please stfu.
-3L w/job
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:41 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi Ah yes, because complaining about interviews/job prospects on XOXO is such a rare phenomena.
I apologize for being a part of this...this newfangled whining about ITE affecting job prospects at a law school, on a law discussion board. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:58 PM Author: vibrant wrinkle Well since you're not new here, you should expect to get pwned when you whine about shit on XOXO, ITE or otherwise, so STFU. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396622) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 8:42 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi Heh. Fair enough. I've been in a bad mood though, cut me a little slack. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12397308) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 11:31 PM Author: vibrant wrinkle you're an alright dood. If it didn't out me, I'd meet with you and give you advice on how to navigate this ITE minefield. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12398472) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 1:06 AM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi i could use the help. really. i promise not to out you - i'm too intoxicated anyway to knkow whaat the hell is going on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12399186) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:18 PM Author: lascivious mauve theatre coldplay fan I'm not blaming it on UVA, nor do I give a shit about Vault rankings. But it's ridiculous to slam on people for showing that they're an able (although not necessarily talented) student at a top 10 school. PLENTY of shittier schools out there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400732) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:12 PM Author: Beta magical therapy Sorry for the bitching, I was unaware that applying to realistic for my GPA non prestigous firms in my hometown and wanting to get at least 10 interviews would be out of the question. So I'm fucked because I'm at the median and clearly that's because I didn't apply myself and I "skated by". What about the 185 people who did worse that I did? If I skated by what did they do?
What about the another student who posted on a different thread who is top %40 and got 8 interviews. Guess he should've tried harder too.
Do us a favor V10 and a recent grad, STFU |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:24 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396089) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 12:20 AM Author: beady-eyed sound barrier Dude, jesus christ. All i am saying is that your blame should go to yourself, not on uva. I'm sure you busted your ass and did well, but top 50% isnt going to cut it these days. Calling at UVA career services is fucking amateur hour, that's all.
It is a shitty situation, and sorry your grades, which would have landed you tons of interviews 2 years ago, won't this fall. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 8:05 PM Author: awkward center kitty You sound like you are well on your way to becoming one of the shady V10 lawyers whom I must deal with daily. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12397086) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:12 PM Author: contagious lettuce Out of curiosity, how many Chicago firms are interviewing this year at UVA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395560) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:15 PM Author: Chrome church building headpube LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395583) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 4:32 PM Author: wonderful famous landscape painting seems about 15 firms with chicago offices. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395737) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:01 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap The better news is that of those 6, none are RLY hiring. They are just showing up so it doesn't look bad. If there were 20 firms, they'd all be the same for median at UVA. So, you should RLY be happy 'cause now you only have to endure 6 fake interviews as opposed to 20. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395933) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:05 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth your bitterness knows no bounds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395953) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:07 PM Author: clear nofapping immigrant senate I imagine he's sitting there rubbing his nipples and repeating "yes...yes..." to himself as he reads each ATL post about pay cuts and OCI withdrawals. Delighting in others' misfortune is an odd thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395964) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:10 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap How did I delight in it faggot. I'm just speaking the truth. I am deferred myself for a year. This sux. It sux we went to LS when we did. But for this guy to be complaining about his 6 measley interviews misses the whole point. Even if he had more, it wouldn't matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395981) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:12 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth dude your shtick is tired and lame. we all know that shit's going to be tough, but some firms are still hiring, and 6 interviews isn't as good as 10 or 12, in any economy. your posting sucks balls. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395992) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:14 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Keep telling yourself that dood. And I am not schtick, you stupid deluded asshole. It is HORRIBLE at the firms now. They need more attorneys like you need to play more video games.
And 10 interviews is NOT better than 6. That is the ENTIRE point you idiot. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:15 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth oh noez i'm an asshole!?
and my point is that you're a fucking retard who doesn't know what you're talking about. some median mvp dude posted the other day about his 2 callbacks before oci even stared. you obviously don't know what you're talking about, so kindly stfu. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:19 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap LOL, believe some other anonymous guy, but not me. LOL.
Read ATL, you stoopid chimp. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:20 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth you really are this stupid. holy shit. OH NOEZ ATL SAYS MORGAN LEWIS ISN'T INTERVIEWING 3Ls THIS YEAR. get a fucking clue man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396058) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:22 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Do you NOT understand that NONE of the major firms are making $?
Read this from the WSJ from 2 days ago.
Also, why are you trying to pretend everything is OK when it CLEARLY is not?
JULY 29, 2009, 11:28 P.M. ET
The End of Big Law
Giant firms fall prey to the hubris that infected their corporate clients.
By DOUGLAS MCCOLLAM
An unrelenting tide of bad news has swept over corporate America in the last year—and with unemployment continuing to climb, anemic earnings, and the sound of long knives being applied to the whetstone in Washington, things show no sign of looking up. But there is at least one bright spot amidst all the gloom: For once your lawyers are suffering right along with you.
For the last decade, profits at America’s elite law firms rose at a heady clip. Ten years ago no American law firm grossed as much as a billion dollars. Last year 13 did, and at almost 60 firms the average partner’s annual take-home pay is a million dollars or more. It wasn’t just corner-office types who cashed in on the legal boom. Salaries for first-year associates at top firms climbed to $160,000—plus bonus.
Last year, for the first time since the Berlin Wall fell, profits dropped for partners at the nation’s top law firms. The declines were particularly steep at some of the most pedigreed shops such as Cravath, Swaine & Moore, where average partner compensation dropped almost 24%, and Davis Polk & Wardwell, where it declined more than 17%, according to The American Lawyer magazine’s annual financial survey. And 2009 is shaping up to be even worse.
All this has come as a cruel shock for a generation of high achieving legal eagles. During the boom years, managing partners at leading law firms argued that they had created a perpetual profit-making machine.
When times were good, lawyers earned enormous fees engineering mergers and takeovers. When things were bad, they earned enormous fees fending off angry shareholders and breaking up the conglomerates that they had helped put together. When things turned really ugly, they made a fortune carving up the bankrupt carcasses of their former clients and toiling to keep top management out of federal prison. And when questioned whether they bore some measure of responsibility for the malfeasance that felled their erstwhile patrons, lawyers typically answered with a “hey, we just work here” shrug.
It seems plain that a great many members of the American bar fell prey to the same strain of hubris that infected their clients. They embarked on empire building—opening offices from Beijing to Bucharest—and snapping up smaller rivals, confident that the future belonged not so much to the best and the brightest as to the biggest. The movement toward gigantism was virtually uniform across the legal industry.
Now that the fuel to run their massive law machines has been choked off, big law firms find themselves just another smokestack industry with too much capacity and too much real estate. Yet unlike their corporate clients, law firms have a culture ill-suited to the bloody work of downsizing. They hire incoming classes of associates a year or even two in advance and are loath to be caught out in public doing something so down market as layoffs.
But firms are learning to put aside their qualms. In the first half of 2009, almost 3,000 partners and associates at premiere firms were laid off along with many more paralegals, secretaries and other staffers. And that doesn’t count the large number of stealth layoffs.
At bottom, what’s in question is the whole economic edifice of the modern American law firm. Like the pharaohs of old, big firms are enamored of constructing pyramids with an ever-widening base of associates and nonequity partners toiling on behalf of a narrowing band of equity partners at the top. Increasing a firm’s “leverage”—as expressed through the billable hour, one of the most pernicious creations in the annals of commerce—has been the key metric driving profitability at big law firms over the last generation.
Numerous studies have documented the deleterious impact this model has had upon the legal profession and clients. To date, nothing has been able to kill it. It would be ironic indeed if the economic downturn that has cost lawyers so much ended up being the very thing that saved the legal profession from its own excess.
Mr. McCollam, a former correspondent for BusinessWeek, is a contributing writer for The American Lawyer.
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:24 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth you have serious problems with your reasoning skills. i have a very difficult time believing anyone ever offered you a job anywhere, much less at a law firm. in fairness, i'm sure you probably failed the bar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396087) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:27 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap LOL. How old are you, 12?
Cravath, the mecca for XO archtypes, lost 24% per partner over 2007 and it is WORSE this year. I'm sure they can't wait to hire as many new attorneys as they did in 2007 & 2008. Now multiply Cravath by 250 firms. Now do you GET IT? I feel like I am talking to a skateboard punk. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:30 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth i'm sorry that you're upset with your situation. but i'm even more sorry that the only way you can feel better about your shitty life is to come on the internet and tell everyone how fucked they are. unless you're shtick, in which case STFU because you jumped the shark about 6 months ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396112) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 8:45 PM Author: Aggressive Chestnut Indian Lodge Corn Cake Oddly enough, a guy who (unlike Collum) specializes in law firm economics for a living thinks this article is a bunch of shit.
http://www.adamsmithesq.com/archives/2009/07/what-if-the-wsj-has-no-clothes.html
When the WSJ Has No Clothes
When the business paper of record (I refer of course to The Wall Street Journal, at least here on this side of the pond, although I'm increasingly fond of the Financial Times), prints a prominent article on its Op-Ed page entitled The End of Big Law, as Tennessee Williams might have put it, "attention must be paid."
I'm here to tell you to pay no attention. Or, if you insist, that it will go deeply unrequited.
The author is Douglas McCollam, described by the Journal as "a former correspondent for BusinessWeek, [and] a contributing writer for The American Lawyer." So far as Google and I can tell, he has actually written a grand total of one article for BusinessWeek and perhaps two or three for The American Lawyer, the most recent in 2005.
Mr. McCollam's credentials as a domain expert in our industry aside, the article falls quite spectacularly on its own merits, as a truly impressive exercise in the abject failure of critical thinking:
* "For the first time since the Berlin Wall fell, profits dropped..." The same is surely true of almost every other industry and sector in the economy including, not to make an awkward point, the publishing industry. * "[A] great many members of the American bar fell prey to the same strain of hubris that infected their clients. They embarked on empire building--opening offices from Beijing to Bucharest." This could also be characterized as participating in the great post-cold-war phenomenon of globalization, or, more simply, as following your clients. As for "hubris," I have yet to meet a managing partner not exquisitely attuned to the sentiments of their partners and the perceptions of their clients. As CEO's of multi-hundred million dollar enterprises, they are a modest bunch indeed. * "[B]ig law firms find themselves just another smokestack industry with too much capacity." Last time I checked, we were not capital-intensive nor do we have but the most trivial base of fixed assets. * Finally and perhaps summarily, nothing in the article connects to the headline, "The End of Big Law." Nothing.
Much of me was loathe to, and so I delayed, writing this column. Indeed, I debated whether it was worth even drawing attention to this misbegotten exercise in tabloid journalism. Besides, I trust your discernment and analytic skills, to see through such transparently jackleg and misbegotten efforts.
So only a coda on what a wasted opportunity for the WSJ. Our industry represents 1.4% of GDP--we're 10% the size of healthcare, which has been receiving a bit of ink lately, and I'd like to think we're an economic locus of activity not to be sneezed at--and Murdoch & Co. the editors fumbled it.
Alas.
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Date: July 31st, 2009 9:10 PM Author: Spectacular foreskin Biglaw won't die, but I think we're likely to see clients move business to mid-size law firms with lower billing rates. At the end of the day, there is but so much sophisticated work requiring the best legal minds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12397456) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:23 PM Author: stirring lemon address fanboi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396074) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:31 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth then go ahead and cancel your interviews dude. might as well free them up for someone who has a chance, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396120) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:32 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Your glass half-full schtick is getting old dood. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396125) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:33 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth why? if he doesn't have a shot, he should just cancel them - let someone with better grades who might have been an alternate take a shot at it. wtf is your problem (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396132) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:42 PM Author: Beta magical therapy I meet the GPA requirement on all the firms that I have an interview with. I am what they asked for. These are nonprestigious firms that a Top 1/3 student wouldn't even look at.
It's not like I'm trying to get V50 I know that's out of the question and a waste of my time.
This I beleive is .,.,,,,........,.,.,...,.,.;.,.,.,.,..,.anus's point. If i could get more interviews from firms like the 6 I got I believe it would improve my chances. I don't want to interview with Skadden, Cadwalader, or W&C.
Why would a Vault 100+ firm waste time interviewing a Top 10% LR when they have no chance of getting them. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:46 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Oh, I don't doubt you are qualified. I'm saying that they didn't pre-select you and they are obligated to interview you. That's all.
The situation is fucked for all of us. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:47 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth lol just like every single person at every other t10. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396236) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:48 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap OK, enough. Your schtick is ridiculous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396247) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:51 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth lol, right, because all these other schools preselect. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396266) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:52 PM Author: Beta magical therapy So you don't doubt that i'm qualified then how would more interviewing opportunities mean nothing???
If I'm qualified and I sit infront of a hiring partner and I have a great interview and the socially inept pre select student that looked better on paper sucked it up then I have a shot right?
So following that reasoning, 10 interviews could (stress COULD = no guarantee) but COULD help me find a job. It only takes one and getting 1/10 is easier than 1/6. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:54 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth guy is flame dude. don't worry about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396286) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:00 PM Author: Beta magical therapy I can tell, it's simply a numbers game. More opportunity = more possibilities for better results. Less opportuity = less possibilities for better results (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396311) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:00 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap This is how. 6 firms come to UVA with absolutely no intention of hiring due to the economy. Now 4 extra come. How do you like your chances? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396310) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:02 PM Author: Beta magical therapy By this logic no firms at UVA are highering at all. right? So people with LR are fucked to right?
People are hiring just to a lesser extent. Instead of hiring 25 people the will higher 5. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:04 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth dude please edit this horrendous post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396321) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:04 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Correct to your last sentence. Which means the very top students will be OK because there are 5 spots. 25 to 5 is a huge come down though, you understand that effects everyone, including obviously median at MVP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396322) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:08 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Whatever dood. If you want candy canes, unicorns, and lolis go to Top Law Schools.
I am just speaking the truth. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:12 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth lol. if you don't recognize that 6 interviews isn't as good as 12 then you're either flame or retarded. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12395998) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:15 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Christ. You RLY can't be this stupid. 12 interviews is NOT better than 6, if none have any intention of hiring the median at UVA (note NO pre-selects) and are just coming to continue the charade. Which, by the way, is precisely what they are doing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396022) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:16 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth what i'm saying is that FIRMS ARE STILL HIRING DUMBASS. you seem to be having some difficulty here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396030) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:18 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap They aren't hiring median at UVA dood. Sorry to break the news to you. Just below median at Columbia and NYU are in trouble.
Read the fucking paper once in a while.
Any hiring being done by the Big Firms is merely for show and it will be about 20% of last years hiring. |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:20 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth dude, are you seriously this dumb? some mvp median dude posted here about 2 days ago about his 2 callbacks before oci even started. sorry about your shitty life situation, but stop projecting your anger and bitterness on others. tyia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396052) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:23 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap See above. UVA median got NO PRE-SELECTS. He is only being interviewed by firms that are obligated to talk to him through the lotto system. Do the math chief. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396082) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:25 PM Author: Hairraiser ticket booth well i don't know this dude, so he may very well end up with nothing. but that doesn't change the fact that you're a fucking retard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396096) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:27 PM Author: Arousing coral resort jap Where do you go to school dood? Or are you still in the 8th grade? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12396101) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 6:39 PM Author: submissive emerald background story I'm very very slightly above median and got 8 preselects. This whole "no one is hiring at all" thing is getting a bit over the top.
Anybody here below median though? I imagine that a lot of firms, save for shitty regional firm, kept a strict 3.3 requirement for any interviews (because they can). |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 1:03 AM Author: Floppy shitlib DO you have some kind of cite for this 20% number? I've heard 50-80% from CS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12399159) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:06 AM Author: Arousing coral resort jap CS is full of shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400405) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:14 AM Author: Floppy shitlib So you've divined this number from the ether. Good to know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12400450) |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 11:18 AM Author: Arousing coral resort jap It is based on ATL reports of firms withdrawing and making show appearances. Additionally, I have heard this from 3 or 4 Associates at Vault 20 firms as to what they will do at OCI.
Think about it logically. If you hire 100 in a great economy, how many are you going to hire when your partner profits are down nearly 30% and you have had to layoff a ton of people and pay them a severance. Why on earth would you take on more liability. It is beyond idiotic. |
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Date: August 3rd, 2009 11:00 PM Author: pearly charismatic gunner Associates don't know this shit. I have no idea what my firm's hiring will be like. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12419288) |
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Date: July 31st, 2009 5:49 PM Author: Ruddy Toaster Dog Poop http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2009_sum/annual_giving.htm
Straight from TLS thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 |
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Date: August 1st, 2009 1:04 AM Author: Floppy shitlib Bloodbath. It's fucking embarrassing when median students at T10 schools can't get interviews. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1054219&forum_id=2#12399169) |