it looked like the encounter was over?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536273)

Police: "Uh, so, you got out of your car with a loaded gun?"

Woman: "Yes."

XO: SHE DID NOTHING WRONG!!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40540006)

This is not legal analysis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536361)

Therefore she is 100% justified, which is why she was initially arrested but released without charges.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536365)

So this woman only got a misdemeanor, so nvm my analysis is partly off. However hitting the car might elevate the charge.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40538892)

"bitch you gonna hit me!?!" hits van.

white woman gets out with gun

crazy blacks see crazy white woman with a gun and don't run away or back down.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536343)

Facing assault charges

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536348)

1L Crim Law Answer: The pistol only would have been justified if there was an actual threat of bodily harm. There was only threat to property here which doesnt justify the threat of lethal force

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536433)

they should have just drove away or even just stayed inside the car/called the cops

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536517)

she did hit the van's back window or maybe the back pillar

staying in the vehicle and calling the police was the best move, but

do we require people to always choose the best move?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536602)

Author: sealclubber

they coudln't drive away without hitting the lady. that's the point.

she did hit the van's back window or maybe the back pillar

staying in the vehicle and calling the police was the best move, but

do we require people to always choose the best move?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536624)

We don't require people to make the best move but drawing a gun on someone disproportionately is a crime. If I was on the jury, I'd believe that Shaniqua thought she could be in imminent danger/battery, thus meeting the apprehension requirement for assault. Gunslinger here is guilty (not the husband though)

Tl;dr - you can't whip out your gun on someone because they make you angry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536637)

while this interaction resulted in nothing, sometimes the white lady/cop pulls the trigger and people end up dead who otherwise would have lived had they not challenged the gun toter

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40539424)

In my CCW class the instructor ran through the requirements in our state that need to be met to use deadly force in self defense, but then distilled it to one simple question: would you rather face PROSECUTION with the full weight of the state and it’s resources behind it than the threat that you’re currently facing. I’ve never been criminally prosecuted but can imagine it would suck balls, especially for if for a serious felony. Most of the time the answer to the simple question is going to be no, especially in the current insane anti white political climate in this country. If the answer is yes then at least you’ll have no regrets.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536436)

The intent of the car lady was probably to intimidate. Thus, pointing a pistol was stupid as hell

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536459)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2020/07/02/woman-pulls-gun-orion-township-michigan/5365854002/

They're charged and he's lost his job

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536491)

No, open carry would have prevented this stupid shit from escalating in the first place.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536539)

If so, you're a trigger-happy dude who shouldn't have a gun

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536563)

I saw this thinking that the black woman physically punched her or something - the response was not warranted.

Also, lol at XO rushing to defend this JAPpy Karen

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536612)

JFC, is this even a law/prestigious board anymore? Or is this just NPC 4chan/stormfront wanting 100 bumps for some anti-black shtick regardless of the nuances of the situation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536652)

Even if this was the case and there was a human chain around the car, they should have called the cops.

Remember that video of the meth-freaks harassing a black family inside the car? Do you think they would be justified in jumping out and popping everyone with a gun?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536675)

The charge of assault is appropriate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536686)

Savanah Hernandez @sav_says_

White woman ALLEGEDLY bumps into black teen. Black teen calls her racist, her black mom then harasses the white couple for several minutes/threatens to beat their ass, they try to drive away, black woman follows then hits their car, white woman then gets out of car and pulls gun

https://twitter.com/sav_says_/status/1278736339966574597

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536616)

3h Replying to @sav_says_

I'M DONE WITH ANYONE WHO ANTAGONIZES, HARASSES AND THREATENS PEOPLE AND THEN CRIES RACISM WHEN THE PERSON THEY'RE ATTACKING DEFENDS THEMSELVES.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536623)

This "Savannah Hernandez" just wants attention from conservatives (i.e., $$$) for re-tweeting NPC'ing right wing viewpoints. She'd drop your cause at the first sign of real trouble

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536669)

She escalated, threatened violence, brought in race, then blocked and hit the car preventing the situation from immediately ending. Would more "discussion" have brought the confrontation to an end? Should the white couple have just sat in the car for an indeterminate amount of time? What else should the white couple have done?

I see nothing wrong with what the white woman did. her patience finally ran out. It is racist to assume that the white woman should have an unlimited amount of patience and restraint but the black woman needn't have any. Again, who wore out whose patience and created the situation.

Now, look at who lost their jobs and is being charged. If you lawyers want to bring an actual legal defense, yes it is reasonable to fear for your life when someone is threatening you with violence, hits your car, and blocks you from leaving the situation. At that point, it is foreseeable and reasonable to believe they would physically harm you or a loved one.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536718)

What is then the next logical step in that observed behavior pattern? How can one reasonably assume it would stop? Was there even a way it would stop other than the ending we saw?

Tell me, if there was no gun drawn, what happens next?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536834)

If black woman comes around to the side to keep upping the ante, then maybe, but not the back of the car.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536897)

this is scary stuff.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536788)

Under your threshold (which is dictated by some nebulous standard of reasonableness i.e., not expecting "unlimited patience"), someone can pull out a gun when their patience runs dry and when they're not under imminent danger of bodily harm.

If you think that this couple was under imminent danger of bodily harm, then I hope you're not a lawyer because that would be a pretty shitty defense. They were in greater physical danger while they were outside the car having an altercation (in which the Karen doesn't pull out a gun).

There were many alternatives to the escalation of pulling a gun when someone hits your car. Note too that they did not surround the fucking car either. Staying in the car and calling the cops would be the right thing to do and doesn't involve "unlimited patience."

Calling the cops is what's expected of people in this situation and should be the behavior of people in a civilized society. Yes, she threatened to beat her ass. Also note however that she doesn't physically touch her and keeps her distance. There's a difference between "smack talk" and a threat communicating a real apprehension of harm. Context is important.

On a side note, I blame the fucking husband for not controlling his woman and not stopping her from pulling a gun in a situation like this. It's funny that this woman also feels that the cops are going to side with her in this situation (Note that she only says she wants to call the cops while she's pointing a pistol at an unarmed woman - she's so deluded and entitled that she thinks she's in the right. It reminds me of boomers who think they know "the law" without any actual knowledge of the law. Such an attitude stems from their constant narcissism and self-righteous - they FEEL right all the time so they must be)

Anyone supporting this kind of behavior further enables/encourages women doing shit like this, which will only make things worse. Note that many of the BLM incidents of "overt" racism involve white women.

It's because most guys know better than to escalate stupid shit situations like this because we have a sense of the consequences. White dudes not being able to control their women are a big cause of this problem. Sadly, the white knights on this board defending this woman suggest that this problem will only get worse.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536821)

no blame to the shit heads who were confronting whitey?

you ignorant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40548481)

Feminism and it’s consequences...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40550233)

I can understand making snap decisions in short time under adrenaline while you are feeling 'threatened' in some sense. the strongest 'Karen, don't draw!' argument poasters are making ITT, albeit from the comfort of their post hoc detached observer vantage point, is that at the end of the day despite her frustration level and, yes, probably some subjective physical fear but surely also some subjective awareness of our current 🤡🌎 BLM zeitgeist of the past month, this Karen still gifted them a video of a white person pointing a loaded gun at an unarmed black mother who was, putatively anyway, trying to come to the aid of her child (her acting like a total jerk in so doing notwithstanding).

from what I saw the sheboon was wrongfully using 'force' to impede the car but not *really* threatening any physical harm to the occupants once inside. like I said, I can understand how she'd snap in the heat of the moment, but understanding how she got on that path isn't the same as it being the best of all possible paths. I could see myself ending up the same if I were in her shoes, but after the fact I'd probably really wish I'd just put the car in park, locked the doors and called police/waited for them to leave me alone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40539527)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536753)

they seemed unhinged, but I didn't sense there was going to be any actual physical violence

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536859)

at least the daughter was still a bit freaked out about it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536755)

From now on, all memos must be hand-distributed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40536823)

Couple Charged After Videos Show White Woman Pulling Gun on Black Mother

Widely circulated videos showed a white woman pointing a gun at a Black woman as she filmed with her cellphone in a parking lot in Orion Township, Mich.

By Alan Yuhas and Michael Levenson

July 2, 2020

Updated 6:49 p.m. ET

A couple have been charged with felonious assault after widely circulated videos showed a white woman pointing a gun at a Black woman in a parking lot in Michigan, the authorities said on Thursday.

In the videos, the Black woman and her teenage daughter confront a white man and woman outside a Chipotle restaurant in Orion Township, Mich., on Wednesday. The exchange quickly escalates from an argument about an apology into accusations of racism, with a gun held only a few feet from the Black woman as she filmed with her cellphone.

At a news conference on Thursday, Sheriff Michael Bouchard of Oakland County, Mich., said the woman who had pointed the gun and her husband had each been charged with felonious assault, which carries a maximum penalty of four years in prison.

The Oakland County Prosecutor’s Office later identified the couple as Jillian Wuestenberg, 32, and Eric Wuestenberg, 42.

Both had guns in their possession when they were taken into custody, Sheriff Bouchard said.

The sheriff explained the charges by saying that “any weapon that could cause serious and potentially deadly injury can be charged as a felonious assault.”

The episode began when the two parties bumped into each other in the doorway of the Chipotle, Sheriff Bouchard said.

“One person said they didn’t realize they had bumped the other person with the food bag, and the other person felt they needed to get an apology,” he said. “Then it escalated from there.”

He urged members of the public to try to defuse tense situations at a time when many are on edge.

“My plea is, please let us all try to be that voice of calm in the storm, and remember each one of us is a human being that deserves respect,” he said.

As the videos spread on social media on Wednesday night, they quickly drew comparisons to footage taken on Sunday of a white man and woman pointing a semiautomatic rifle and a handgun at peaceful Black protesters on a private residential street in St. Louis. The demonstration was one of dozens against racism and police violence that have been taking place across the country for weeks.

The Detroit News, which reported on the Orion Township altercation early Thursday, shared both videos, the longer of which — at just over three minutes — shows more of the encounter. The News identified the mother as Takelia Hill and quoted her as saying that the argument began because the white woman had bumped into her daughter and was yelling “in my daughter’s face.” Ms. Hill could not be reached for comment.

The videos, recorded by Ms. Hill and her daughter on Wednesday evening, do not show what happened before the argument began. In one of the videos, Ms. Hill can be seen standing in front of the white woman, and her daughter says, “This ignorant woman bumped into a 15-year-old.”

After an angry, profanity-laced exchange, including accusations of racism and demands that the police be called, the white woman returns to her minivan and says through a lowered window that “you cannot just walk around calling white people racist.”

“This is not that type of world,” she says. “White people aren’t racist. No one’s racist. I care about you. I care about you and I’m sorry if you had an incident that has made someone make you feel like that. No one is racist. I’m sorry if you had something like that happen.”

As she speaks, Ms. Hill repeatedly asks, “Why would you bump her?”

The camera briefly turns away from the minivan as it backs out of a parking spot, and the teenager shouts for her mother to watch out.

Ms. Hill then asks whether the couple were trying to hit her with the minivan, and hits the back of the vehicle with her hand. The white woman exits the car holding a handgun and, using profanity, tells Ms. Hill to “get away.” The woman cocks the gun and points it at Ms. Hill, who is standing a few feet away.

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“You’re going to shoot me?” Ms. Hill says, and she, her daughter and the armed woman ask for someone to call the police. The woman tells Ms. Hill not to jump behind her car, which Ms. Hill denies doing, and then the woman begins to scream at Ms. Hill to back away. Crying can be heard. The woman eventually lowers the gun and gets back in the minivan, and it pulls away.

“Call the police, no, don’t go anywhere,” Ms. Hill says. “You were about to hit me with the car.”

Her daughter can be heard saying: “These white people, they’re so racist. They pulled a gun out on my mom.”

Sheriff Bouchard said the authorities responded after they received six 911 calls related to the altercation, each of which he played at the news conference on Thursday. He said officers ordered the white woman out of the van, put her on the ground, handcuffed her and took her gun.

Bryan Pietsch contributed reporting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4575234&forum_id=2#40537327)