Date: January 31st, 2006 12:05 AM Author: Dark base
what you say is true, but incomplete.
you need to analyze your own motivations. you are well qualified academically and bright. but you are sadly, sadly insecure. this is obvious because you need to declare that you are better and more qualified than everyone else.
which is probably true. you probably are smarter. you probably do have a better job than most, etc., etc. but you are also clearly far more insecure than most. most in your situation do not feel the need to declare their credentials, because they are secure. they do not need the praise and awe of onlookers.
you need to "act like you have been there before." by constantly declaring how wonderful and well qualified you are, you are not acting like you have been there before.
this is coming from someone who agrees with the substance of your post, although it is not all that original.
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:09 PM Author: dun nowag
The following does not seem like the typical 174 sentence:
While the TTT justifier would ideally reject these relative quality systems, most TTTs realize this is too outlandish to garner support within mainstream thought
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:11 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
STFU, V5 is where the real prestige is, but even I recognize that not everyone will be at one. V20 is a compromise to make my study more reasonable to the common TTT. HTH
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:58 PM Author: Adventurous Stage
he's an exception. i suspect he us wasn't willing to grovel with professors for better grades, or else he'd have gotten in anywhere. no doubt the LSAT score is solid.
by the way, the original post will live on as a foundational document.
Date: November 26th, 2005 11:36 AM Author: vermilion lay
Because BC isnt a TTT; had you said BU or suffolk, then I would have started to think you're not prestigious. Furthermore, Patent law is pretty prestigious in Boston. Curious what 174 is up to other than writing these posts.
you do realize that skadden is in the V5, don't you? to compare US News to Vault is absolutely ridiculous. i'm surprised you didn't just throw amlaw into the mix.
Date: November 18th, 2005 6:01 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
It was an example to demonstrate a point that there are formal ranking systems used by people to determine relative quality. If you somehow decided I was 'comparing' them you are a TTT.
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:10 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
Keep justifying your mediocrity. Remember, Lat also destroyed the prestige of Harvard College and Yale Law School. I would like to point out that Lat is an aberrant example, and that there are probably a lot more 'Lats' of lower intelligence at non-V5 firms.
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:17 PM Author: Unholy Liquid Oxygen
It must be pretty cool when you tell people at parties what law firm you work for and get to see the expression of awe on their faces. I do kind of wish I had that, you are correct.
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:21 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
More TTT justification- 'If you work at a top firm you don't have friends.' Keep telling yourself that you miserable fucking retard, you are shit, work at a shit firm, go to a shit school and have shit friends. I am so far beyond you that I am able to deconstruct your thought process before I bash you to the pavement. You are a pathetic, mediocre disgrace- invent another TTT myth to prop up your wounded self-esteem.
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:23 PM Author: Unholy Liquid Oxygen
Uh, actually I go to a top 15 medical school, which is considerably harder to get into than HLS.
Also, it was more a jab at the fact that nobody outside the legal profession cares about firm "prestige" than asserting you don't have friends. The other dude was right, you seem very defensive and un-174-like. These posts seem like they were authored by pensive.
Date: November 26th, 2005 12:32 PM Author: Chartreuse sickened tanning salon
No, just more random. No med school has an average MCAT in the 99 percentile. Lower acceptance rates just makes it more random, and lets people with low 30's get into HMS once in a while.
Date: November 26th, 2005 1:16 PM Author: Frisky charismatic generalized bond dingle berry Subject: you're just kicking these kids while they're down
frankly i don't see why the justification has to be so complex when in actuality it is both a simple AND LEGITIMATE one for a TTT to be pleased with going to law school, albeit a 'poor' one. my argument is that only to people like you, a small minority, is going to a TTT a bad thing. for most normal people just getting into any law school is an accomplishment, especially when you consider the fact that 50% of all college educated people who want to attend, simply can't get in anywhere. therefore, their 'justification' is really just looking at the situation from the viewpoint of the mainstream, rather than from some elitist extreme. further, can you really be so self confident that always trying to make yourself appear superior isn't just an unhealthy overcompensation for something far greater which is missing in your life?
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:35 PM Author: amber dilemma
Again, I don't know why you think a V5 offer is so impressie; I've actually received nine (though, admittedly, four are given automatically with enrollment at Wayne State). How many V1 offers did you get? I got three; I already faxed them to Howard Stern AND Evan-2001.
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:45 PM Author: amber dilemma
It was a separate clause; I believe the grammatical choice was appropriate, though I'm not sure. I'll check with fellow Wayne Stater James Joyce and get back to you. For now, I'm heading out in my Wayne State Members Only jacket (you can't buy one on the street, so don't ask) and having my cook make me dinner at the official southern Los Angeles Wayne State Club (Jack in the Box).
Date: November 17th, 2005 7:54 PM Author: Misanthropic ungodly spot
Another common TTT justification is: "I'm going to <a TTT> because they are really strong in <some obscure TTT legal specialty>." For example: "I'm going to Tulane because they are really strong in maritime law." Who do these TTT's think they're fooling?
Date: November 17th, 2005 8:42 PM Author: translucent provocative skinny woman really tough guy
And how, pray tell, did you confirm? Did you send something to GTO that "Renada" (having worked for a top Vault firm, and no doubt with friends having done so as well) would not have access to?
Date: November 17th, 2005 9:56 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
I sent GTO proof of an offer and/or acceptance at a V5 with the necessary identifying information to prove beyond any doubt that I am the recipient of the offer.
Wow, friend you keep topping yourself post after post, your theory is excellent.
I look forward to the day you become the President of these United States and share your Prestige with all of America. Keep up the good work, you are an inspiration for us all.
Date: November 17th, 2005 11:12 PM Author: soul-stirring preventive strike
This is an age old battle with a predictable result. Temporarily successful people have always tried to anoint themselves to a position of permanent and guaranteed success. The motivation behind this self-anointment is their known insecurity. They know they don't belong on top. They know they don't have what it takes to stay on top. They know they're a fraud. They know they will be discovered. They know they can be taken down with minor effort. So they desperately try to fool the world into believing they have an unchallengeable and divine right to be on top.
In every society, the aristocracy tried to do this to the rest of the population - and were crushed.
The English tried to do it to the Americans - and were crushed.
This approach is especially prevalent in third world countries. In India, they tried to accomplish this via a caste system - I don't know if the system still exists, but if it does it's on it's last days.
This third-world-country approach has no place in the United States. If you first generation Americans brought this idea over from your third-world roots, I suggest you part ways with it.
So ... to you HYS V5 people who want to anoint yourselves, I have one thing to say. Your world will come crashing down. You are the British and your competition are the American revolutionaries. If this were Star Wars you would be the Empire. If this were the Bible you would be the Pharoah.
Throughout human history – you have served one purpose and one purpose only, to be crushed by the people you tried to anoint yourselves over. That is your destiny.
Date: November 17th, 2005 11:23 PM Author: Slippery candlestick maker
You appear to suffer from a common misunderstanding of revolution. Revolution does not spontaneously spring from a downtrodden proletariat; rather, it springs from an out-of-power elite tricking a downtrodden proletariat that they will be better off if they revolt. The Americans who cared enough to revolt were wealthy landowners upset with taxation at the hands of the British elite; Luke Skywalker/The Jedis convinced the rebels that an aristocracy was better than a benevolent populist dictator. We are not worried about the coming of the revolt of the PCL elite; a more realistic threat (though still somewhat laughable) would be a revolt by business-people against their law-making oppressors a la Ayn Rand. The masses are appeased with a mixture of television, pop music, pop philosophy/news/political "freedom". HTH.
Date: November 18th, 2005 1:07 AM Author: Out-of-control cerise pisswyrm giraffe
we must strive to understand both the theoretical framework of TTT justification doctrine, as well its practical implications. when one encounters the brute force and persistance of a prominent TTT justifier, the encounter can be so shocking to common sense that it can actually transform the normal ego into a super-charged 'hyper-ego' that takes on a truly violent vigilante incarnation, like when a benevolent robot suddenly deploys a nuclear cannon.
for example, one of my acquaintances recently told me that she chose virginia law over harvard. i mused over this fact peacefully before realizing that i had already engaged her in the sequence of personal combat with a solid roundhouse kick to her solar plexus.
admittingly this was only the literal manifestation representing the death of her rationality. yet we must not succumb to the vigilante instinct; we must give these people the proper treatment that they deserve. the gift of prestige is the gift of redemption. we must redeem these 'loser-fuckers' into 'winner-fuckers' before the hour of reckoning tolls.
Date: November 18th, 2005 1:12 AM Author: soul-stirring preventive strike
"for example, one of my acquaintances recently told me that she chose virginia law over harvard. i mused over this fact peacefully before realizing that i had already engaged her in the sequence of personal combat with a solid roundhouse kick to her solar plexus."
Date: November 18th, 2005 1:19 AM Author: diverse hyperactive cruise ship ceo
How would someone who gets a V5 offer (a permanent offer for after graduation), but then turns it down for a non-V5, fit into your theory (which I enjoyed reading about)?
Date: November 18th, 2005 1:58 AM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
Prestigious.
Prestige lies in the inputs. If your inputs (grades/school/interview skills, etc.) yield a V5 offer you have proven your prestige and will face no qualitative prestige reduction by failing to exercise the OPTION to go to the V5. The fuckers who fall within my trap are those who do not have the option and therefore either pretend they do or admit they don't but in so doing decry its desireability.
Date: November 18th, 2005 2:12 AM Author: razzle ratface Subject: Unless you accept the offer, it doesn't exist.
174 falls into his own TTT justification trap. Offers made but not accepted don't show up on the vita, just as if 174 made law review but neglected his cite checking.
Date: November 18th, 2005 2:44 AM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
(1) I don't know who you are and I didn't mention you in my thread. "Ksusha" is a random name. Any correlation to a real douchebag is purely coincidental and unintentional. I'll change it to "Bob" if you'd like.
(2) You obviously have no clue what defamation is. I would love to see you craft a cause of action from the OP. Don't think for a minute that I am remotely intimidated by this idiocy.
(3) I am taking my opinion from remarks on a thread from last night, where you assert that all biglaw firms are "sweatshops" and that only socially awkward fuckers work at them.
Date: November 18th, 2005 2:48 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
Somehow I think your jealousy would cause you to post this no matter what the OP said. I think you're a loser-fuck TTT justifier who either isn't in law school or attends a TTT and is working at a TTT firm or no firm at all. You wish you were me. HTH
Date: November 18th, 2005 3:51 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone ticket booth dysfunction
i agree. a "yawn" actually indicates that the yawner's interest has been sufficiently piqued in order to merit a response. though minimal, the response is still a response; and no one ever posts something on a thread unless they are interested in the subject matter contained therein or are in some capacity homosexually attracted to or jealous or envious of the original poster. the best (and only) way to demonstrate a lack of interest is to desist from posting on the thread in the first place. this indicates that the thread is not even worth the time or energy necessary to post on it; in other words, it indicates that the poster is uninterested.
Date: November 18th, 2005 4:06 PM Author: high-end wild crotch
No he is a cool guy and the friend who told me is only 75% sure. I was joking in my OP, Columbia is an incredible place. HYSCC are clearly the only elite law schools.
Date: November 26th, 2005 1:58 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
You just proved my theory.
You're attending a shitty law school and you feel bad about it. To justify this failure you have constructed the myth that law school will cost me 150K. In reality it costs me nothing because my parents pay tuition. Most T14 students will pay 100K at most, and many of us pay a lot less due to scholarships.
The second myth you construct to justify your shitty existence is that law school debt is particular to the good schools. This is more TTT mythology. Ask your peers at your shit school- I promise you many of them are taking loans, some of which will be substantial.
If you ever want to be made into an ass, just come back to this thread.
Date: November 26th, 2005 6:57 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
heh you are just hilarious. You are also a piece of shit liar. "Many pay a lot less due to scholarships". Go to the Lsac website and look at the official stats. About 15 percent of students at Harvard get half a ride or more.
I am living it up, moron.... I am good looking I have girls left and right... had them before even going to college. Not like 99 percent of the little boys on this board - ooh, am I tall enough, am I muscular enough, am I thin enough...hehe.
I bet you are some clown going to Cooley just trolling the board. In fact I dont give a rats rear behind where the fuck you go.
The mere fact that you are dependent on mommy and daddy at your age is absolutely hilarious. I guarantee you will be back here in a year whining about the workload. I will be laughing my silly heart out.
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:06 PM Author: Big Massive Shrine
He's not lying, it's been confirmed. You prove his theory again by making up stories about getting laid and "living it up." You do this to gloss over your failures. You also assume going to a non-piece-of-shit school means you will be unhappy, which is not the case.
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:18 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Shut your **** trap idiot. Go look at the turnover statistics yourself. I am not making "gettin laid" up but if it makes you feel better go ahead and believe what you want. There are janitors with top game that are getting more pussy than all of you combined while you are yanking off to your Gilbert's supplement.
Here is the 174 justification theory.....
I can also come up with a theory that says all people paying top dollar for 7 years of back to back stress and exams are coming on this board to justify their existence. You guys have to assert your pedigree in order to feel like spending 300,000-400,000 and high opportunity cost was a good investment. That its all a good investment (sounds like a pitch from a 12 year old hedge fund manager) since I will work X amount of time in biglaw than Y amount of time as an in house counsel. You flippin idiots think you can plany your career for the next 10 years. Go run a search on the board under "debt" "financial aid" "miserable" depressed" and the real insecurities/anxiety begins to surface.
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:45 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Ok you prove my point. The bottom line is no student has the resources to finance this on their own. The other 28, 14, and 16 percent respectively is mommy and daddy helping.
Date: November 26th, 2005 8:23 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Ok based on this fiction we have also established that I nailed your mom. I think thats far more humiliating than the former considering that she is probably old or/and married.... and doing shit behind your back.
Date: November 26th, 2005 8:37 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
You clearly did not perform well on the LSAT. Nowhere was it established that you nailed my mom. All we established is that you prematurely ejaculate in your diaper when you see her. Based on your logical lapse I'm betting you scored a...142?
Date: November 26th, 2005 8:59 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Ok you can throw things back and forth all you like.... maybe I will give you some more info on how freaky your mom is after you learn how to spell definitely. lol
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:29 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
Maybe you should shut your ******* trap. I'm very happy with life. Princeton + a top law school hasn't cost me anything. **** you, *******. You ******* loser-******* think you're going to do well in life? Wrong, **** you. I have accepted an offer at a Vault 5. Unless I somehow blow it (not ******* likely, as basically no one does) I will be starting at 125K + bonus next year. If I do blow it, I'll just go to another firm and get 125K + bonus from them. We live in different worlds. Mine is prestigious and fun. Yours ******* sucks- have fun with your ****** life and mediocre salary you ******* loser-*******. HT*H
Ah yes, more reference to "game" in your post. I'm sure the "pussy" janitors with "top game" get is something I would really be interested in. I for one will take jerking off into my Gilbert's summaries rather than have sex with someone who will fuck a janitor with "top game." I guess this thread has turned into a comparison of our relative socio-economic positions. And, since this concept seems to elude you, succesful people tend to have sex, too. We don't need some white-trash concept of "game," just as we don't need to put rims on our 1980 Ford Broncos and "flash" our "bling" to get women. We attract them because we're not LOSERS. I'm sure this helps.
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:49 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
The only sex you will be having is with a Times Square crack whore at 1:00 am in your sleeping bag at the side of the office, while your "girlfriend" is being eaten out by a black guy.... I can tell in real life that you are a self center piece of shit. I would never call my parents paying for something "no cost." Go continue to jack off to your textbook be my guest....
Date: November 26th, 2005 11:44 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
That's my favorite part as well- the more they argue with me, the more they unwittingly prove how brilliant my theory is. I'm sending this bitch to the law journal.
Date: November 26th, 2005 11:58 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
*Sigh* More justification. You don't know who I am or what I look like. I study a lot, sure, but I do other things as well, such as running. Yes fucker, I run. FOR FUN. It must be comforting to think that I won't last a day in the real world. That must make you feel better about yourself. But let me ask you this- does the fact that your TTT degree may never even give you a chance to try the real world concern you? It should.
Date: November 27th, 2005 12:01 AM Author: henna windowlicker cuck
Are you bitches still at it? Just fuck already and get it over with! 174, don't waste your time on this guy. He obviously has some serious inferiority issues to be going so nuts over this shit. He obviously cares more about school rankings than anyone else here.
Date: November 27th, 2005 12:04 AM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
OK let me prove conclusively with no shred of doubt that you are EXTREMELY insecure/no confidence. Everytime I say something that bugs you a bit you come up with sentences to qualify yourself. Sentences such as
1. "I study a lot, sure, but I do other things as well, such as running. Yes fucker I run."
2. "I love life. I will be going.....
These are defensive qualifications. In otherwords you are actually responding to my contentions even though you claim them to be illusory. That proves to me 100000000 percent that everything I am saying is true. Otherwise why even qualify yourself and provide evidence contrary to my assertions on an anonymous board.
Date: November 27th, 2005 12:21 AM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Oh ok so I understand that you are the only one on the planet that has permission to use superlatives..... or other people on this board who claim that everyone here is on full scholarships.
Date: November 27th, 2005 12:34 AM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Unfortunately, hrasing a question that is irrelevant to the last few posts is not a successful cop out.... I am very reluctant to continue correspondence with someone who has deep anxiety/anger issues who displays such an extreme kaleidoscope of emotions in such a short period of time......lets call this a truce and come back here after necessary counseling. Later, turkeyboy.
Date: November 26th, 2005 9:42 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
Dude it is quiet obvious from all of your posts, especially this one, that you have deep rooted anger/anxiety issues. You try to assert your masculinity by swearing then supporting it by I went to this school, I have this job. You are in fact a carbon copy of Pee Wee Herman. Go google "online bipolar diagnostic test. I hope C & F doesn't find out.
Date: November 26th, 2005 9:43 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
C&F doesn't care about bipolar disorder. Are you going to disclose to them that you have AIDS? Or will it never be an issue given that your chances of passing the bar are even lower than the likelihood that you've ever had sex?
Date: November 26th, 2005 10:17 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
The first sentence in your post in completely stupid. For example, if I were to say, "AIDS causes your dick to fall off" and you were to correct me by saying, "That's not true," would it mean that you have AIDS? No? You mean your post is filled with the illogical idiocy of a stupid individual who attends a shitty law school? I, for one, am shocked.
Second, your ability to pass the bar will have more to do with your low IQ and terrible legal education than it will with my mother.
Date: November 26th, 2005 11:29 PM Author: Laughsome geriatric meetinghouse
You idiot.
First of all I said "maybe" you have bipolar. I am inclined to believe you have bipolar not because you know about the consequences of nondisclosure with C & F but rather based on your posts from before that demonstrate crystal clear anxiety/anger issues. The fact that you knew about C and F was just a minor hint at something that I already realized from before.
Actually there is a good chance in the future you will very well see what AIDs is like after banging a few crack whores while your "girlfriend" is being slammed by some black guy in the village.
I have a low IQ and I am stupid but ask your slutty mommy how good I am in bed..... thats all that matters to me.....
She is most generous - pays tuition, gives head everynight....
Every year tens of thousands of wannabe lawyers enter law school. The majority will be extremely disappointed by their career opportunities.
Thus the title of this essay: law school is a big lie. People enter law school with the idea that a law degree is their ticket to a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle. In fact, just the opposite, law school for most is a ticket to a worse financial state than if they had not attended at all.
This news is hard for people to accept, because “everyone knows” that lawyers make a lot of money. Right? Well look at the salaries for government lawyers in your area. They probably start in the 30s. Why would anyone take a job paying in the 30s if law jobs pay six figures? They wouldn’t. After a decade or more of service to the state, you salary will most likely max out in the five figures. That’s a pretty lousy salary for a job that requires three years of graduate school education. There are plenty of people without any graduate education earning six figures, and they don’t have to pay back the student loans that lawyers have to take out in order to pay for law school. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world and he doesn’t even have an undergraduate degree.
There are some lawyers who start out with a good salary. They work for what they call “BIGLAW” on the internet message boards. Big law firms pay their associates a starting salary in the six figures. But here’s the sad news: only a tiny percentage of law school graduates will ever get these six figure jobs at big law firms. Unless you go to a top law school, the six figure big law firm job will most likely not be yours.
There are only 14 top law schools. That’s right. Not 10, not 15, but 14. They are, in descending order of prestige: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago, University of Pennsylvania, University of Michigan, University of Virginia, Duke, Northwestern, Cornell, UC Berkeley, and Georgetown. And that’s it. Go to any other law school, and your chances of getting a big law firm job will be slim to none.
There are also distinct levels of prestige within the top 14. Yale, Harvard, and Stanford are head and shoulders above the rest. Then Columbia, NYU and maybe Chicago round out the top 6. Attending one of these top top law schools will vastly improve your odds. The guy graduating at the bottom of the class at Harvard will have better career opportunities than the guy graduating at the top of the class at an ordinary law school.
Outside of the top law schools, the only law school graduates having decent job opportunities will be those who graduated in the top ten percent of the class and who made law review. Law review and top ten percent are usually the same people because at most law schools the law review members are selected from those whose grades are in the top ten percent at the end of the first year. If like me, your grades weren’t in the top ten percent at the end of the first year, but you managed to graduate in the top ten percent, you are screwed because you weren’t on law review. Furthermore, most big law firms make offers to their summer associates, who get interviewed and hired during the second half of the second year, thus it’s mostly your grades during the first three semesters of law school that determine your entire legal future.
If you are reading this, and you’re a law student who already received your first semester grades, and they aren’t top ten percent, then my advice is to drop out now instead of throwing more money down the law school black hole.
Despite being warned that the only way to get a decent job in law if one attends a non-top 14 school is to make law review and the top ten percent, tens of thousands of suckers will enroll anyway. They think “I will be the one who makes the top ten percent” or “even if I don’t make the top ten percent, things will work out.” Let’s state the odds clearly: 90% of the class will not make the top 10%. You are not the only person in law school thinking they are going to bust their ass to make the top ten percent. 80% of the people start out thinking they are going to bust their ass. And some people from the 20% who are slackers are going to wind up in the top 10% too, because law school grades have a huge random element. One of the biggest slacker/party girls in my first year law school class made the top 10%. She wound up getting a high paying job at a big law firm because the law school gods decided to randomly grace her during her first semester.
The law schools will trick prospective students with bogus statistics about the great career opportunities available to graduates. Don’t believe everything you read. First of all, there are the documented lies, like the admissions brochure for my law school alma mater, Arizona State University College of Law (ASU), which listed the average starting salary for graduates with job offers at graduation from private law firms. But what percentage of the class graduates with a job offer in hand from a private law firm? About 10%? Trumpeting the average salary for 10% of the class is damned deceptive.
I further suspect that some law schools outright lie on their reported career placement statistics. Think about public companies. They have a strong incentive to lie on their financial statements, so that is why they have to prepare their statements in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles, and the accounting has to be audited by an independent public accounting firm. Despite these safeguards, companies like Enron are still caught lying on their financial statements.
Law school career placement statistics do not have to be prepared in accordance with generally accepted principles, and they aren’t audited by independent public accountants. Therefore they can’t be trusted. Don’t be fooled into thinking that because they are “non-profit” they can be trusted, or that they are run only for the benefit of the public. There’s no such thing as no one making a profit. “Non-profit” only means that no one owns the residual profits from the law school, there are plenty of stakeholders making out like bandits. Law schools are run for the benefit of the law professors who have cushy six figure jobs, and the money for their salaries comes from the gullible suckers called law students.
How cushy is a job as a law professor? Law professors earn six figures and only have to work six hours a week. And they get summers off too. How much better can it get? That’s right, law professors are only allowed to teach six hours of classes a week. If they taught more than six hours a week, the law school would lose its accreditation. Maybe some of the new law professors have to spend some time preparing for class, but by the time the law professor has a few years under his belt, he knows the material cold. Some of the older law professors were able to recite the entire textbook without ever even looking at it. In class one day, all the students looked quizzically at the law professor while he recited the exact details of a case that wasn’t in the textbook. Finally this was brought to his attention. It turns out that he was reciting from the last edition of the book. He didn’t even bother to look at the textbook in front of him to see that the case wasn’t in there.
The only time that law professors have to do any real work is when they grade exams. And law school exams are only given once at the end of the semester. So we are talking about two weeks of real work at the end of each semester. And in one case, a law professor at ASU, Dale Furnish, was apparently too lazy to even put in his two weeks of work and he made up fake grades for the students in his class. When his deception was discovered, all he got was a temporary suspension, and a short time later he was back at law school teaching law.
So we see, law professors have cushy jobs, therefore they have a strong incentive to lie on the career placement statistics because those are equivalent to a for-profit company’s financial statements, and it’s what the prospective law students look at to decide if they want to “invest” in the law school education.
Another fallacy that prospective law students hold onto is that the law degree has some kind of value outside of law. They think, “if I don’t practice law, at least it’s a prestigious degree that will help my non-law career.” This is completely false. Having a law degree hurts your chances of getting non-law jobs. No one wants to hire you if you have a law degree. Because “everyone knows” that lawyers make so much money, they can’t understand why someone with a law degree would want to do anything else but practice law. If you say “I couldn’t find a job practicing law.” which is probably the truth, they will think “this person is a loser because everyone know how easy it is to find a job practicing law, and we don’t hire losers around here.” If you say “I was just exploring my options but decided I didn’t want to practice law,” then they will think “this person has no idea what he wants to do, we want to hire people who know where their career is going.” There is absolutely no way to spin the law degree in a way that it helps you get a non-law job. Hiring managers are looking for cookie cutter resumes, not resumes where people have education unrelated to the job. From their perspective, they’re not hiring a lawyer so they don’t give a crap if you know how to synthesize appellate cases (assuming they even know what “synthesize appellate cases” means, which is unlikely). The only way I have been able to find any jobs outside of law is to leave the law degree off my resume. Whenever the law degree has been on my resume, it has been the kiss of death that prevents me from finding a job.
Finally, this essay would be incomplete if it didn’t discuss the burden of student loans. Whatever salary you make after graduating from law school has to be discounted by the cost of your student loan repayments. The student loan payments are not tax deductible (except to a very limited extent which will likely not apply to you). Your marginal tax rate will probably be around 45%, which means that for every $100/month in student loan payments, you need to have a stated additional salary of $182/month to cover the student loan payments. This means that if your law school education adds $500/month in student loan payments, you are paying $6,000/year in student loans and you need to earn an extra $10,910/year to cover the payments. This means that a $40,000/year job as a law school graduate gives you the equivalent disposable income of a $29,090/year job if you didn’t have a law degree. And it’s a lot easier to find a $29,000/year job with a bachelor’s degree than it is to find a $40,000/year job with a law degree.
Even if you are one of the rare and lucky law school graduates who can obtain a six figure job at a big law firm, those jobs are rumored to suck. I can’t say much about this because I never worked at a big law firm, but according to what I’ve been told, a large percentage of the partners at big law firms are assholes who treat their associates like crap and make them work ridiculously long hours. Some of this may be unjustified whining, because I was treated like crap at a job where I was making $9/hour. Nevertheless, one needs to consider that the ultimate goal of law school, a big law firm job, attained by only a small percentage of law school graduates, may not be the great reward it’s supposed to be.
I predict that some prospective law students will find this essay, read it, and not believe it. Because no matter how much you try to tell a prospective law student the truth about law, they don’t believe it. “Everyone knows” that lawyers make a lot of money, how can this be true? Believe me, it’s true, and if you attend law school you will learn this the hard way. Don’t waste three years of your life and go into tens of thousands of dollars of debt that can never be discharged in bankruptcy to find out that your career opportunities suck after all that. For the love of God, learn the truth now.
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:25 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
Sounds interesting, but I'm not reading all of it. I'm top 5% at a top school and have accepted an offer with a Vault 5 firm for the summer. Unless I end up one of the 5% or so who don't get a full-time offer, my starting salary will be 125k + bonus.
Date: November 26th, 2005 7:31 PM Author: angry 180 mediation queen of the night
I'm directing it towards coolboy - for the record I don't buy all of it (I don't believe a JD hurts you for other jobs, though I don't think it helps much either) - I just don't feel like typing out a full serious response to these posts and would rather cut and paste something that's vaguely similar to what I believe
Date: November 26th, 2005 11:47 PM Author: Adventurous Stage
notice how dim minds think in terms of how long it would take them, not someone like yourself? it's as if they translate everything into canadian dollars.
Date: November 26th, 2005 11:51 PM Author: Onyx Razzle-dazzle Coldplay Fan Clown
Hahah. I enjoy their slack-jawed bewilderment at how long this must have taken, how I must have read through a thesaurus to come up with "big" words. For many of these fuckers, a post of this length would be a term paper. I relish the posters telling me it's "bad writing," as if I spent more than 10 minutes (after a few drinks) on this manifesto.
Date: January 21st, 2006 9:05 PM Author: Shimmering thriller station ape
But not all TTTs fit the mold you described above. Most TTTs are as you describe and your theory is not only dead on but fucking hilarious.
But, there are a few of us that are TTT but really aren't. For example, I am thoroughly TTT in every sense including penis size, but I dont make excuses for it. Im a fuck up, loved drugs in high school and college. I never studied and probably wont in law school, yet, I'll hack my way through, sue a few people, make good money and be content with my TTT'ness and hope my kids do better!
Perhaps some part of my wishes I were smarter, going to Harvard but I'll settle for a good golf game and a wife that likes to suck me off.
Date: January 31st, 2006 12:11 AM Author: cerebral pink blood rage
has 174 posted anything good in the last few months? i'm still convinced he's got an imposter as of late. the new guy is a total fucking moron (as opposed to just being a stupid asshole).
I recently read an article on this board that ibanking associates will soon be driving off the lots in cars costing upwards of $40,000. Do you know anything about this, and if so, what are your thoughts?