Kirkland & Ellis DC Summer Class
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: March 17th, 2006 1:11 PM Author: Thriller hyperventilating psychic selfie Subject: K&E DC Summer Class
Comments....
Harvard 9
Georgetown 4
GW 4
Stanford 3
Yale 2
Duke 2
Chicago 1
NYU 1
Northwestern 1
Howard 1
Boalt 1
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359458)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:15 PM Author: filthy tripping international law enforcement agency clown
K&E's probably in the top 3 or 4 hardest offers in DC. i agree that is a surprisingly good result for GW. it probably reflects their clerkship placement, which seems stronger than the USNWR rank would suggest.
edit: based on what people have said below, i concede that it might be less selective than this.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359495) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:29 PM Author: aqua corner
Well where are all the GULC people going, then? These are among the top firms in DC, so I'm not sure your logic holds.
Kirkland: GULC 4, GW 4
Wilmer: GULC 2, GW 4(!)
Williams & Connolly: GULC 2, GW 1
Gibson: GULC 3, GW 3
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359598) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:32 PM Author: filthy tripping international law enforcement agency clown
not having the covington list yet is a pretty big hole.
for K&E specifically, i'd say the peers would be Jenner, GDC, Sidley, and Mayer, and to a lesser extent Latham, OMM, and Jones Day.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359634) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:36 PM Author: aqua corner
Yeah, Covington #s would be nice to have. I wouldn't be surprised if they hired a lot of GULC people.
At this point, though, you'd be hard-pressed to look at this data and guess which was the better school.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359677) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:03 PM Author: aqua corner
16 + 9 = 25 for Chicago
11 + 13 = 24 for NU
This despite NU's class size being 20% bigger.
And NU, while a TTT, is still a far better school than GW.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359868) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 4:04 PM Author: 180 ocher degenerate factory reset button
Look at that ass kicking. ;)
(Now do you concede my point was correct?)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360860) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:42 PM Author: cerebral maize associate
"for K&E specifically, i'd say the peers would be Jenner..."
You rave.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359711) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:55 PM Author: aqua corner
You'd have to be a pretty hardcore right winger to pick Kirkland over Jenner/Williams/Wilmer/Covington (where you'd likely also have offers) based on politics. Hell, Gibson is more prestigious and has a similar right-wing rep.
And 99% of the work you'd be doing at any of those firms is apolitical anyway. Defending big corporations is defending big corporations.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359809) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:36 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
"Well where are all the GULC people going, then?"
Outside DC? There are lot more options here. This post from above is dead on in my exp and from what I've heard from others:
"We really don't know how "well" GW is doing compared to GULC unless we know how many offers were given. Back in the days when I was a 2L, I attended several offer dinners and noticed that my school had an overwhelming number of people in attendance compared to another local school (joint offer dinners). It was like 10-to-1. However, at the end of the day, the firms ended up nearly the same number of people from each school. For my classmates, this was one of several nice options; for the other school, they were thanking god."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359669)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:38 PM Author: aqua corner
Dude, are you freaking kidding? Georgetown places crappy in DC because its students would rather work in other cities? I've seen some trolling before, but you win the gold fucking medal.
"For my classmates, this was one of several nice options; for the other school, they were thanking god."
Yeah, I'm sure Wilmer and Williams are just one of several nice options for most GULC students.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359691) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:43 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
What makes you think that a person choosing between DPW-NY and Wilmer-DC is more likely to choose Wilmer?
The point is that people at GULC are more likely to have comparable offers in markets outside DC than GW students, or to exclusively seek out markets outside DC b/c they have the option.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359715)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:56 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
1-You have a sample of only 4 firms (UVA isn't even rep. at K&E-DC and Wilmer-DC; I suppose GW places better than UVA in DC??)
2-Unfortunately, you're not very bright, so it's really not worth the time to try to explain things to you.
Edit:
Let me add to your table based on the SA thread:
Kirkland: GULC 4, GW 4, UVA 0
Wilmer: GULC 2, GW 4(!), UVA 0
Williams & Connolly: GULC 2, GW 1, UVA 4
Gibson: GULC 3, GW 3, UVA 1
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359814)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 1:58 PM Author: aqua corner
I agree that we need more data, but your attempts to rationalize GULC's poor showing so far are truly pathetic. GULC isn't losing more top students to NYC than other top schools.
I'm sorry you didn't take the scholarship money at GW.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359832) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:03 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
Check my edit for an update to your table.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359867)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:07 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
The table: Please explain to us how much better GW is than UVA. It's 12 (GW) to 5 (UVA).
Hint: don't argue size, because GW is only about 25% bigger than UVA.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359908) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:13 PM Author: aqua corner
Imcomplete data? Maybe a shitload of UVA people are going to Covington this summer? Or maybe UVA is a bigger TTT than people realize?
Time will tell. But I bet the UVA students won't try to fly some chickenshit excuse about how all their top students suddenly decided they wanted to go to NYC.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359978) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: fuchsia private investor church building
Funny that he thinks the results of 4 firms means GULC is getting "pwned" whereas it is insufficient data for UVA. I know a couple of people that turned down K&E for other DC firms (like Skadden or Arnold & porter) and (gasp!) lower ranked firms not even mentioned in this post. I'm sure that happened at GW too.
this data doesn't mean anything without more information. Making the assumption that people always pick the highest ranked (or most prestigious) offer they get is retarded.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361969) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:33 PM Author: aqua corner
"the most competitive firms in DC require the same rank (top 10 or 15%) from GW and GULC"
This is the whole point--top DC firms consider GULC and GW to be equivalent.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360141) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:36 PM Author: salmon antidepressant drug internal respiration
Yeah, I agree for the most part. The very top DC firms only take top 10 or 15% of either school.
I'm not saying that other firms in DC (and in NY) don't go deeper into the class at GULC than they do at GW, but for students at the top of the class the schools are pretty much the same.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360176) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:20 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
"i don't think he suggested it's surprising; just that people might plausibly be indifferent between the two."
Something like that
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360050) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:20 PM Author: Nudist gaped theatre
It's not "surprising."
It was apparently one of the assumptions of the other guy that students from GW and GULC typically prefer a top DC firm/office over comparable firms/offices elsewhere. But we have absolutely no evidence to indicate that so I was pointing out that his assumption has no basis.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360047) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 3:40 PM Author: navy idiot
I'm at GULC and I chose a DC firm not listed over one of the firms listed.
Not all of us want to do appellate litigation.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360681) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 3:48 PM Author: navy idiot
Some of those firms don't have much of a corporate practice to speak of.
I chose a firm with a comparable corporate practice to one of those firms, but in the end one in which I thought was slightly better and more national than the firm I did not choose.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360751) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 4:21 PM Author: aqua corner
Skadden doesn't even make the list.
http://www.chambersandpartners.com/us/?action=frame&lf=sfrt&rf=spe&eid=73
EDIT: Skadden's DC office appears to be less corporate-focused than its other offices. According to NALP, only 40 lawyers do "Corporate" work there, compared to 86 doing "Litigation."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360980) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 5:16 PM Author: salmon antidepressant drug internal respiration
Outside of xoxo, I don't think it's considered to be unimaginable that students would choose a lower ranked or so-called less prestigious firm over a top ranked firm, especially when there are other factors at play - e.g. strengths in particular practice areas, location, lifestyle differences, etc.
However, people on this board like to believe that no student would ever choose Kirkland-DC or Sidley-DC over Covington, for instance, when I know of a few people at GW that made that choice (or one similar to it). People have different priorities that factor into their decisions, and not everyone has prestige as their top priority, contrary to conventional wisdom on this board. So the numbers of SA's at top firms isn't always an accurate reflection of how well a school did at those firms.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361388) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:29 PM Author: Pungent floppy black woman
ok, let me get this massive pw3age straight here. you're providing data that show michigan as placing the 2nd best out of the 3 T14 midwestern schools? isn't that par for the course? also, why did you conveniently leave out Williams & Connolly? their info is in the same thread that you referred to 3 times.
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=359417&forum_id=2#5090633
jenner + wilmer + gibson + williams =
chicago: 10
michigan: 7
northwestern: 0
yeah, michigan did so poorly
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360119) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 3:05 PM Author: Violent toaster people who are hurt
i didnt include williams bc it wasnt mentioned in the post that i was responding to and while mentioned elsewhere, seems to be discussed mainly in the GULC v GW posts. I included GDC because that seems to be what comes up in the "peers" posts above.
If you want to include Williams thats fine I dont really care. Even still, did you know that Michigan's class is 380 and Chicago's is 190? Do the math. 10 to 7 when the 10 is from a class half the size seems like pwnage to me.
As for "massive," that adjective was in reference to hells bells being a umich troll. all i said was PWN3D and I stand by that.
I am not concerned with nu's placement. As for the midwestern schools part, I don't think there is any argument that all three have great placement - I'm just poking fun at hells bells here (I posted specifically to elicit a response from him bc he posts anytime someone says something about umich's placement). But to be exact, Chicago has better placement numbers nationally than the other two and on par with nu in chicago, both of which are better than umich in chicago.
I will leave the national placement umich v nu for someone else to argue. I'd say they're equal, but then again I don't care.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360439) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 3:37 PM Author: Passionate tan stag film faggot firefighter
"I'm just poking fun at hells bells here (I posted specifically to elicit a response from him bc he posts anytime someone says something about umich's placement)."
Do you really expect anyone to believe that? It's not even close to being true, as I am much more likely to bash Michigan than to praise it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360649) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 3:44 PM Author: Passionate tan stag film faggot firefighter
"i didnt include williams bc it wasnt mentioned in the post that i was responding to and while mentioned elsewhere, seems to be discussed mainly in the GULC v GW posts."
Uh, the post you responded to was the original post. Which post are you claiming to have responded to? You are, of course, full of shit.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360709) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: Passionate tan stag film faggot firefighter
You're not making any sense. You know you've been PWN3D. The man asked you why you chose the firms you did, without including W&C. You have no response.
You're a douche who was dinged by Chicago and Michigan.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361715) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 5:57 PM Author: Violent toaster people who are hurt Subject: wow thats some ignorance
I am a uchicago law grad (and turned down umich for law school - since I attended undergrad at michigan).
And I did explain, I'm sorry that you don't understand.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361754) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 6:03 PM Author: Passionate tan stag film faggot firefighter
Ooooooooooooooooooh, snap! You said I have OCD! Oh no, you didn't!
I just washed my hands about 5 times, and then wondered again how you came not to include W&C.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361824) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 6:20 PM Author: Passionate tan stag film faggot firefighter
Yeah, I'm unoriginal. But you can't stop posting, and you can't answer the question. I bet we can get this thread to 200 posts before the 7 pm games begin.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361978)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 5:21 PM Author: Pungent floppy black woman
Your response is so fuckin lame. What you really want to do is troll for Northwestern but you can't so you cling onto UC beating Michigan. In this case, Northwestern is not even on the comparison chart.
Among the firms that have been brought up, UC pwns Michigan pwns Northwestern. Fair? Why bring up placement in Chicago? B/c it's the only major legal market that Northwestern beats Michigan in? Do you so badly need to say something good about Northwestern? Give me some data on San Fran, LA, DC, and NYC placement for Michigan and Northwestern. If not, STFU and stick to the DC placement topic.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361428) |
Date: March 17th, 2006 1:28 PM Author: henna boiling water native
I know from a pretty reliable source that there were 9 offers extended to GW people for this summer. Most of those people were at the top of the class, and those that did not take K&E took other very competitive DC Firms.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5359589)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:16 PM Author: boyish godawful idea he suggested azn
Have fun. My friend who summered there last year worked constantly, from day one.
What a pleasant way to spend the summer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360014) |
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Date: March 17th, 2006 6:15 PM Author: snowy laughsome meetinghouse
At least they have a more realistic impression of their future employer than anyone else in town.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5361928)
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Date: March 17th, 2006 2:26 PM Author: Vigorous free-loading theater
Uh oh.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=381385&forum_id=2#5360097) |
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