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McDermott, Will & Emery (Ownership Society)
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Date: August 27th, 2005 12:58 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686573) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 12:59 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping thanks. Doubt I would take them anyway, but good to know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686588) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:02 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686616) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:02 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping Yeah, I definitely will. Care to share where you got the info?
Did you just get a callback there (and is this an attempt to screw up their yield?) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:05 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686654) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:06 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping I saw that Jones Day only gave like 75% last year. I am gonna ding them if they call me back. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686664) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:14 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686756) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:23 AM Author: hot razzle business firm Is this just for Foley's Chicago office? I'm looking at them in Detroit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687696) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:26 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687713) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:32 AM Author: hot razzle business firm So on NALP it says that they hired 5 summers in 2004, considered 2 and made offers to 2.
Shitty? |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:04 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Can you explain why a firm should feel obligagted to make offers to summers? I mean, why is it such bad form not to if you really think your class is a little sub-par? I really don't know the answer, I'm not trying to call you out or anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686645) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:05 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping because if they dont, they wont attract good people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686655) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:06 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Well, that's why its a good business decision for them to do it, but that doesnt address my question, which is why is it reprehensible behavoir for them to choose not to if they're willing to accept the future hiring consequences. Ownership (expressing what is very much the status quo attitude on this, as I've observed) seems to be upset that MWE would have the nerve to not make offers. I'm just wondering if he or anyone else can explain why because I don't know alot about this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686666) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:08 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping if they tell you they have a spot for each summer that they hire, and they dont, they deserve to burn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686687) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:09 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Ok, that's fair I guess. Lying is bullshit. But just because they're not making offers to their summers doesnt mean they lied about the number of spaces. It may just mean they're going to look elsewhere to fill them, no? I assume that's what happened in MWE's case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686700) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:12 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping as long as they are up front and honest about it, its fine, but i bet they werent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686734) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:15 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate B/c the tacit promise is that every summer or nearly every summer who isn't a world class fuckup will get an offer. If they don't live up to that, it's pretty shitty b/c people rely on that in making decisions about where to summer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686768) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:17 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Yeah, I guess the firm knows that many of the people who accepted a summer offer wouldnt have come if they knew that MWE was going to have a big shift it the % of offers made. But going forward, now that this news is out there, should the firm still feel like they need to do it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686788) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:19 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate Yes, b/c presumably the same tacit promise exists with all summers until it's explicitly denied by the firm. It's basically an industry standard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686810) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:21 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Once a firm fucks associates over, it's reputation is ruined. People remember which firms have greedy partners that fuck over their lowly associates the minute things are a tad bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686828) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:10 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686706) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:14 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Ok, bear with me. I'm not trying to prod you, I'm just trying to understand. How is making offers tied to professional development? To me, hiring a bunch of summers and then having them sit in the corner doing nothing would be a violation of a firm's obligation. But if they give the summers high quality training and just chose to look elsewhere for their full-time hires, how is that a violation of the firm's committment to developing lawyers? Presumably, each summer learned a good bit. The lack of an offer doesnt cause their memory to be erased and what they leanred will serve the legal community...just at another firm. I agree 100% that 2Ls should be wary of firms that don't make many offers to summers, but that's purely because we're looking out for ourselves.
Is it your opinion that a firm has an obligation to make offers to the vast majority of their summers? |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:18 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend A no-offer is blackballing someone. It will fuck up that person's career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686796) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:21 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space These were explicit no offers, not that 'cold offer' phenomonon? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686826) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:23 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend I don't know. It doesn't really matter. These people are fucked. People will assume there's something wrong with them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686850) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:27 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Isnt it fairly common for people to look for other jobs after getting an offer? How does a cold offer proactively fuck someone? The new firms they're looking at don't know its cold, right? Or do I not understand this practice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686882) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:29 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend You're understanding is correct. What I'm saying is that if the firm gives out 20 cold offers, the cold offers aren't really secret and word will get around that they are really no-offers. The whole advantage of the cold offer is that other firms think you have an offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686901) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:34 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space So word really gets around that much, huh? That's really interesting. I hadnt thought of that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686960) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:37 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend We gossip on here. Associates gossip on greedy. This shit makes it into the law news sites. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686994) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:15 PM Author: pale roommate People do talk. The world is small. That is why I was pissed about the abolition of community accounts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689214) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:18 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate There's a tacit promise of full time employment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686800) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:18 AM Author: Hairraiser doobsian heaven Yes. 2Ls summer at a firm expecting to work there after law school unless something goes wrong. It is common and widely expected practice for firms to hire all the 2L summers who do not fuck up. If the 2Ls hold up their end of the bargain and do their jobs properly, it's bullshit for the firm to suddenly decide not to make offers anyway.
Also, as others have pointed out, no offer is effectively a blackball. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:25 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686863) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:16 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Who said the class was sub-par? We know damn well that this wasn't the case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686778) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:20 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space I don't know a damn thing about this. At that moment, I was talking mostly in the hypothetical, but you have to agree that this is a reasonable hypothesis to explain the MWE situation for someone who is hearing of it for the first time and doesnt know anyone who worked there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686817) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:23 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend This has happened before at other firms. The firm just makes an economic decision and decides that it has too many incoming associates than it knows what to do with, and decides to blackball these young lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686839) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:24 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Is a cold offer realy a blackball? A straight no-offer surely is. And if they did that, its dirty, because they're seriously hurting the careers of people who did nothing wrong. Only the most flagrantly bad summers deserve a true non-offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686857) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:26 AM Author: big snowy travel guidebook partner I think if a huge chunk of the MWE class gets no offers, then people will know what happened and they won't be totally blackballed, but will probably still suffer some (depending on how many people they did take, how big the class was, etc.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686869) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:27 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Firms will know what happened, but will still wonder about that person, especially if the firm did hire SOME people
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:28 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space A 'no offer' is just cruel though, when the person did nothing wrong. Even if word gets out, its still a huge hurdle. A cold offer seems totally different to me though, if I understand correctly what a cold offer is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686894) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:30 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate You still have to answer the question of why you're interviewing again, so it's not the greatest situation.
I think I'd prefer a well publicized financial disaster at a firm resulting in no offer to a cold offer. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:31 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend What's even worse is what Wilson Sonsini did like 6 years ago. They notified their entire incoming class in the middle of 3L year that they were not welcome and to seek other employment. It was too late for them to go to OCI at that point. That's an assrapong.
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:32 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate Yeah then there's not another OCI to participate in. What a fucking disaster. You could probably sue the firm if they didn't give you some kind of package. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686938) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:33 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Law is employment at will, so they probably aren't required to give anything but did something out of damage control. I'm not sure what they did for these people in terms of a package. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686949) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:35 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate They'd have good reliance damages though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686967) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:37 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend These guys probably all found *some* TTT firm that pays market to take them. Probably no provable damages. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686989) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:47 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy You file to get them to settle. No firm wants to deal with the publicity of such a lawsuit.
If this story is true, I would have banded the other summers together and sued immediately. Then I would have contacted every law magazine in the United States about the lawsuit. Then I would have contacted SV media sources. Of course GA would find out about it.
Then you go to every law school's career services department and tell them about the lawsuit. Ask them to send e-mails to students about it. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:50 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Suing a law firm means you never plan to work for another law firm in your life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687103) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:52 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy Ya think? In a situation this egregious? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687108) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:57 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Yes. Law firms will see you as a troublemaker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687147) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:33 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space now that is outrageous. did anyone consider filing a law suit or something? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686944) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:32 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Is it bad practice to sort of fudge the answer to the 'why are you interviewing again' question? I mean, is it really unethical not to disclose "because i didnt get a real offer"? Couldnt you just say "My interest is in a firm with a stronger [whatever] practice?" Or, "I'm more interested in New York than Chicago" or something?
(I'm asking because I have no idea) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:34 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate Of course, you'd come up with some answer other than I can't really go back there. But, it's not the easiest question to answer. If you say you didn't like the firm, then you're bad mouthing your old employer and you look like a dick/bad employee. If you say something about location, it begs the question of why didn't you know that last year. It's a tough question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686958) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:35 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space gotcha. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686968) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:34 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend The soft offer thing is an ethical nightmare. Everyone fudges. The firm does and you do. There are plenty of people who reinterview to upgrade as a 3L, so you just give a reason like "I like your location/practice better" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686963) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:31 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686926) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:32 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Don't schools have listservs? People should spam them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686939) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:26 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Shearman did this a couple years ago to actual 1st and 2nd year associates. They were in the shitter and fired a bunch of people. They said that the layoffs were performance based, and those fired associates were royally fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686872) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:27 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate I think black ball is way too strong of a word. If a firm gives no offer to a substantial portion of a class, word gets around. I think the victims are probably treated more as unfortunate casualties of the shitty finances of the firm more than anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686883) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:29 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend If some people got hired, firms will still question the other people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686906) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:31 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate Probably, but blackball is probably too strong a word. It's certainly a bad thing, but not crippling. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686921) |
Date: August 27th, 2005 1:16 AM Author: Tantric Orange Background Story what reason(s) did they give? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686779) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:21 AM Author: big snowy travel guidebook partner What's interesting is that when I interviewed with them last year, they made a point of discussing their financial stability, how no partner has no more than something like 2% of the clientele, or something like that....seemed odd. I don't know anything about this though. What do the greedy boards say? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686824) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:26 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686875) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:29 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space I'm interviewing with them on Tuesday so I appreciate the heads up. I'll pass the word on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686898) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:17 AM Author: arousing mewling reading party pocket flask You should inquisition them about it. That would be fun. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3688283) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:38 PM Author: Purple boltzmann windowlicker Seconded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689028) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:28 AM Author: Talking Trust Fund No offer or soft offer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686897) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:34 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686954) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:34 AM Author: Talking Trust Fund WTF? That really sucks. I would call and ask if I were them, it's worth a shot anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686961) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:35 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space wow...that blows. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686976) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:35 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend So it is a no offer? What about the people who have already had OCI...did they get fucked? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686979) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:36 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686988) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:38 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Did people at CLS who worked at MWE not do OCI thinking they were getting offers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687000) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:40 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687018) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:36 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate What percentage of the class are you talking about? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686983) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:38 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3686999) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:39 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate No, I already graduated and my firm hasn't been known to do things this shitty. I was just curious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687008) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:41 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping Do you think it is appropriate to ask the recruiting office about this before setting up a callback? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687030) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:50 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687104) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:53 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping No offers yet, but 10 callbacks. I am expecting a call from them though, the interviewer took to me very well. Maybe the recruiting people would be the best people to ask? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687116) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:07 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687245) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:40 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space This is probably a stupid question: Is it bad form to ask about this during the OCI interview? Obviously, in a indirect way. But something like "What kind of committment does MWE have to bringing back their summers?" I'd be interested to see if they would be honest about what went on last year, though I imagine they'd fudge their answer and asking them "what happened last year" would be too confrontational. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687023) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:42 AM Author: Rusted fat ankles senate I recall interviewers telling me that they give all their summers offers. Usually, if it's approached properly, the financial stability of the firm is a completely kosher topic for the interview. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687040) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:44 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping I asked the partner i interviewed with and he told me the firm was very diversified, in fact I think he said no single client was more than 2-3% of revenue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687066) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:43 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687049) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:44 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687062) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:45 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687070) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:47 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space good advice. thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687088) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:41 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Wow, that's horrible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687026) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:41 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping how are you doing w/ OCI? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687035) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:42 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Doesn't start until next week. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687043) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:43 AM Author: puce cruise ship gaping Do classes start after that, or is OCI at the same time? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687053) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:45 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Classes start a week after it starts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687073) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:55 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy So I have a question. Do firms like this generally have a pre-OCI reception for scheduled interviewees? I think it would be nice to spend about $1,000 on drinks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687135) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:57 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space They do at Michigan. I just RSVP'd this afternoon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687145) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:58 AM Author: Tantric Orange Background Story you should surreptitiously water the plants with maker's mark all night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687159) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 1:59 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Its not a bad idea. That or just tell all my friends to come crash the thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687162) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:00 AM Author: Tantric Orange Background Story then pay the bartender to write "PWN3D" on the bill before he gives it to them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687172) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:01 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space haha...perhaps some of those screwed over 3Ls will take up this crusade. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687193) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:00 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy Haha, you read my mind. Except it won't be Maker's Mark. It will be the most expensive scotch they have (Macallan 18 generally). And i'll drink a fair share of the shots too. Also, I was thinking about bringing a couple of "friends" (off the street) in, and saying they were in town for a few days. Load them up too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687182) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:00 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687173) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:02 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Cottage Inn on Monday night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687201) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:02 AM Author: Tantric Orange Background Story i would get drunk (on their tab, of course) and do this if i were a michigan student (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687206) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:17 AM Author: Deranged maroon site messiness A recipe for fucking PWN4GE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687315) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:09 AM Author: cobalt stage ceo Ownership, what's your email addy? I'd like some more specific info. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687256) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:10 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687269) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:11 AM Author: cobalt stage ceo IM? No.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687279) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:12 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687287) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:14 AM Author: cobalt stage ceo Ok... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687296) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:13 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Hey Ownership, out of curiousity, was this tactic isolated to a single office or did it happen nationwide? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687292) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:14 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687294) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:17 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Hasn't MWE NY historically not had a 100% rate? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687320) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:18 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space No bad news from the DC office that you know of?
(That's where I'm interviewing) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:21 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687354) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:26 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687381) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:27 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Keep up the good work. Outing TTT law firms is a beautiful thing. People are such pussies. If more people outed law firms who do stupid shit, life would be better for them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687391) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:37 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687459) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:38 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Did they fuck you over personally, or are you just acting out on everyone else's behalf? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687473) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:41 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687493) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:45 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend So you never worked at MWE? I assumed that was your 2L firm or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687512) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:51 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687547) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:59 AM Author: 180 locale so you are basing this on second hand knowledge? lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687583) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 10:58 AM Author: Talking Trust Fund It's very good second hand knowledge. But hey, if you don't want to listen ... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3688249) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:46 AM Author: Claret crackhouse dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687526) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:59 AM Author: 180 locale its obvious you have improper motives. i hope no one takes you seriously. i should forwarded this post to them and they will sue you for libel i hope. if i were you i'd delete the infringing comments and apologize before they see it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687581) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:00 AM Author: twisted multi-colored base Libel, hahaha. Idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687584) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:02 AM Author: 180 locale good comment you drunken manic depressive idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687596) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:02 AM Author: twisted multi-colored base Perhaps he should sue him for breach of contract and murder too! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687599) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:01 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Even if he has an axe to grind, the shit is likely true. It isn't a shocker that a firm would do something like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687589) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:04 AM Author: 180 locale how do you know its likely true exactly? the comment about the guy making a pass at his friend... how would you know that? and he is putting his friend in danger since they can figure out who she is because he gave a location (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687609) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:06 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Why would the guy make all this up? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687614) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:07 AM Author: 180 locale bitter. who knows. some crazy people here post a lot of lame stuff for fun. or maybe he honestly believes it and his "sources" are angry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687627) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:01 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Regardless of motives, you realize that you can't sue for libel when someone writes something that is true, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687594) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:04 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687603) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:04 AM Author: 180 locale wrong. you can sue but you wont win idiot. you, like most other daft law students focus on the trees and not the forest. you want to prevent lawsuits not win them.
hes going to have to prove that its true... and hes said a lot of negative "facts" so hed better pray his sources are telling the truth since he has no first hand knowledge |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:05 AM Author: twisted multi-colored base And how exactly are they going to prove damages? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687611) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:07 AM Author: 180 locale again, a tree.
they can show their reputation is damaged here, a place where future lawyers are getting their info... especially because its about business practices- in a lot of jxns daamges are presumed. libel per se |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:08 AM Author: twisted multi-colored base Damages are presumed, eh? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687629) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:10 AM Author: 180 locale what part of that was unclear? i guess i shouldnt expect much from you b/c i heard you go to a fourth tier school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687640) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:11 AM Author: twisted multi-colored base Just wanted to make sure that's what you wanted to say.
Speaks for itself. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:20 AM Author: 180 locale read up on liber per se dummie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687689) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:07 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687624) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:09 AM Author: 180 locale you sound deranged. you are hurting yoru credibility. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687636) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:07 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687626) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:08 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Actually, the burden is on the firm to prove its false, you fucking douchebag. Not to mention mere falsehood doesn't get you to a win. You have to prove reckless or intentional lies were told.
But on one point, you are correct. You can *sue* for anything. You just won't win. And may be compelled to pay costs for filing a frivilous libel suit against someone who made truthful statements. So I should have said "you realize that you WIN A LIBEL SUIT when someone writes something that is true, right? |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:10 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687641) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:11 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Look man, you're just not seeing the forest for the trees... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687644) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:12 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687649) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:13 AM Author: 180 locale a lawsuit is just one of many things that could happen. and if they are as evil as you say who knows what they might do... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687655) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:16 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy I do think that the burden of proof legally shifts to you. Truth is an affirmative defense, not an element of defamation. Or so it seems from reading Wikipedia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687671) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:12 AM Author: 180 locale um no. please re-read ny times v. sullivan and focus on the public/private figure & public/private subject matter distinction (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687650) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:13 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Are you asserting that a law firm is in fact a private individual? Interesting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687652) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:15 AM Author: 180 locale the individuals he NAMED are private figures. the subject matter doesnt concern the general public. now go back to sports thread and post self congratulatory long winded posts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687664) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:17 AM Author: turquoise immigrant What individuals did he name, the hiring partner? All he did was post her name. And in any case, the statement wasn't made to the general public, it was made on a messageboard geared towards law school admissions and career discussion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687675) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:18 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space He also didnt mention the hiring partner's name until responding to Ursala's libel charge. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687680) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:22 AM Author: 180 locale he also gave a physical description and location of the recruiter who he said tried to seduce a potential employee.
who cares if the statement wasn't made to the general public? LMAO! is that what you think the "publication" requirement means? LMAO! i think you are confused... maybe you are thinking of "false light" |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:24 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Discussing law firm hiring on a message board dedicated to law school admissions and career placement is appropriate. I can't imagine how you can argue otherwise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687702) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:27 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Imagine that ursala is not a law student and read Sullivan in some shitty undergrad class a while ago, and then it makes sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687718) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:28 AM Author: 180 locale yes you would have to imagine that because its false... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687724) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:27 AM Author: 180 locale what does this have to do with anything? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687721) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:28 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Ever hear of quasi-public figures? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687729) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:31 AM Author: 180 locale lmao! what does the fact that the comments were made on a message board have to do with q-p fs?
if i post "john doe the recruiter for xyz firm is a murderer. he killed jane doe" is he a q-p f because i wrote it on a message board? um no |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:38 AM Author: turquoise immigrant The hiring partner is a quasi-public figure because we're discussing law firm hiring, and in that context she is a public figure even though she is a private figure in other areas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687764) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:40 AM Author: 180 locale so if we were discussing who has the worst neighbors in the world, they would be q-public figures because we are talking about them on a message board. please. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687769) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:18 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space He didnt name any individuals at the firm until you posted, you moron. And I challenge you to find a quote about "private matters" or "subject matters that concern the general public" in the Sullivan opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687678) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:21 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687691) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:24 AM Author: 180 locale god you are dumb. read gertz and philadelphia newspappers v. hepps too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687700) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:25 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space yes, I'm dumb. And you're the one who doesnt even realize that the statements have to be proven false before any libel claim can proceed to the stage where private and public persons become an issue. But I'm dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687709) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:27 AM Author: 180 locale wow. all this time i thought people were joking when they said that the michigan students were dumb... you have really embarassed yourself on this thread with your slipshod knowledge of defamation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687717) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:28 AM Author: turquoise immigrant How can it be defamation if it's true? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687723) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:29 AM Author: 180 locale who said its true?
and you are missing the point. we are talking about at what stage of the proceedings falsity comes into play. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:32 AM Author: turquoise immigrant If the statement is true the public/private figure distinction doesn't matter. It's not defamation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687743) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:36 AM Author: 180 locale but it is a DEFENSE for private figures so he would have to prove they are true... which was my point (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687756) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:28 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Man, I really need to read up on that crucial part of the definition of libel and/or defamation where you can sue for truthful but mean statements. Thanks for the heads up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687727) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:32 AM Author: 180 locale like i said in my first comment to you... like most law students you conflate SUING with WINNING A LAWSUIT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687742) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:34 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space Well, I agreed with you there. You can sue anyone for anything, if you're ok with losing on summary judgement, paying the defendant's legal costs and getting bitched out by a seriously pissed off judge. So that's the summation of all these lame ass attempts to cite libel law? That MWE should sue Ownership Society in a frivilous law suit? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687749) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:37 AM Author: 180 locale paying all d's legal costs when you lose almost never happens. another typical law student error
its not frivilous b/c who knows if they are true... he has no firsthand knowledge about their truth and he is still telling everyone about it like its the truth.
my point is that they can make his life hell if they want. you and your gang keep saying "no they can't because it's true" and thats simply not the case. even if he would eventually win, theres a lot of negative reprocussions in it for him. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:40 AM Author: turquoise immigrant And even more negative reprocussions for the firm. What 2L would want to work at a place that would file a frivilous lawsuit against a law student for stating the truth about the firm's summer program? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687770) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:41 AM Author: cerise impertinent trailer park Correct (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687774) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:41 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space "its not frivilous b/c who knows if they are true"
MWE would know. If they sue knowing that the statements are true, its frivilous. And if they did that, and they lost on SJ, there is a very good chance they would pay costs. That remedy is only enforced when the plaintiff has acted in a particularly egregious fashion. Suing someone for libel when the facts they stated are true and you know it would fit the bill. And its not like these facts are ambiguous. Either a handful of Michigan 2L summers at MWE were given no-offers via phon message or they weren't. Its not a subjective thing. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:43 AM Author: cerise impertinent trailer park MWE hates America, trees, and babies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687779) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:44 AM Author: 180 locale um if the recruiter, et al deny the facts and they turn out to be true how would mwe KNOW that they were true? you live in a simplistic fantasy world. i am done with you and this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687781) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:45 AM Author: turquoise immigrant How could the recruiter et al. NOT know that 5 of 23 summer associates were not given offers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687786) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:47 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend It was 5/23? Where'd you get that from? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687789) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:51 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Random. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687805) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:52 AM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Oh OK. Because those numbers would be horrible. The less people fired, the worse it is for those people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687810) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:50 AM Author: 180 locale thats only some of the allegations. and os never gave numbers like that which are concrete (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687799) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:52 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Yeah he didn't give concrete numbers, but concrete numbers aren't necessary. The recruiters will know how many summers didn't get offers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687808) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:55 AM Author: 180 locale and who is to say whether the number of summers who didnt get offers qualifies as those things that os said about their hiring practice- he said they didn't hire a "significant" number of summers for shady reasons... dont forget the part about their "dubious" reasons.
and again thats only one of many negative "facts" is has said aboutthe firm |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:56 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Didn't you say you were going to bed? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687828) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:57 AM Author: 180 locale translation: ive just been pwn3d and cant respond substantively
yeah i was going to because i have a busy day tomorrow but i felt the need to respond. bye. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:48 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space It was you who said that they would sue even if they didnt think they could win. I responded to that hypothetical and now you're blasting me for running with it. You're an idiot and you've been pwn3d about 25 times by about 7 different posters in under 30 minutes. Well done.
But if you think you're still right, I invite you to respond to this post by summarizing your stance on how this suit would go. Who has the burden of proving the statements true? Would the lawyers in question have a claim to sue for libel when they weren't named, and most weren't identified by descripitive characterisics? Are these lawyers private, public, or quasi public figures in their roles as employers in a law firm? Etc. The only point I concede to you is that they can sue even if they don't think they can win. So don't repeat that 6 times. I'm asking how MWE could win. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:51 AM Author: cerise impertinent trailer park He went to bed (see last post). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687801) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:51 AM Author: 180 locale i honestly feel that i completely decimated you on this thread. see my other thread for the summary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687803) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:13 AM Author: turquoise immigrant How is the law firm a private individual in this context? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687661) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:19 AM Author: 180 locale he has referred to individuals. the recruiter person he referred to is clearly a private figure. the partner is as well... they are not public persons.
anyway in order for what he said to be true it would have to be a public matter as well- and its not- which you dont seem to be contesting. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:25 AM Author: Bateful bespoke space You do, of course, realize that you haven't addressed the fact that libel cannot be claimed when the facts are true, regardless of a person's private status, don't you? Did you not catch that element of the Sullivan case? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687704) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:33 AM Author: 180 locale see above (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687745) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:21 AM Author: swashbuckling dysfunction brethren Actually, falsity is not an element of defamation of a private individual. In order to prove defamation of a privte individual, you must show: 1) publication, 2) of a defamatory statement, 3) of or concerning the plaintiff, 4) damages (which are presumed in the case of libel and slander per se). (Truth is an affirmative defense)
If the issue is of public concern, then the plaintiff must show also 5)falsity and 6) fault (malice if public figure and negligence if private figure). |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:27 AM Author: 180 locale thank you. and these losers think that they are right... thats what gets me so mad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687915) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:02 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687597) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:07 AM Author: Claret crackhouse dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687622) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:09 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687632) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:09 AM Author: Claret crackhouse dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687637) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:11 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687643) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:15 AM Author: 180 locale he is a 2L at michigan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687669) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:13 AM Author: Deranged maroon site messiness What's your e-mail? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687659) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:15 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687667) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:16 AM Author: Deranged maroon site messiness I'm going to shoot you a note right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687670) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:28 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687728) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:30 AM Author: Deranged maroon site messiness Yeah, that would be me. Thanks for the response. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687733) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:30 AM Author: Claret crackhouse dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687736) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:08 AM Author: 180 locale why would she discuss it with you? it doesnt involve you you ninny. MYOB (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687628) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:14 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687663) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:15 AM Author: 180 locale but really- how does this involve you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687666) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:17 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687673) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:20 AM Author: 180 locale translation: it doesnt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687688) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:23 AM Author: Deranged maroon site messiness Are you, by chance, a partner at MWE? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687697) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:20 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy i appreciate the information. i obviously wouldn't do oci with a firm that screws people over. your question is equivalent to asking, "why do public interest work when the clients' problems don't involve you?" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687685) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:25 AM Author: 180 locale "i appreciate the information. i obviously wouldn't do oci with a firm that screws people over."
this quote will be helpful to mwe if it decides to pursue its case |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:27 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy oh yeah, i'm sure. megadamages from not having me interview with them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687719) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:02 AM Author: Talking Trust Fund They have no case, even if they sue (as you insist they will despite having no case), it will get dismissed very quickly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3688255) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:51 PM Author: Cracking toaster stage Quit being mean, you doodie head! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689082) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:25 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy By the way, it's clear that the OP need not delete the "infringing comments." The OP can just state clearly that the information is secondhand and in *his opinion* it is credible. I think this is clear enough from the original post.
I don't know who you are, but if you represent the firm, you represent it poorly. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:35 AM Author: 180 locale you are an IDIOT. how in the world could you possibly think that i represent the firm. i dont think you need to worry about working for any firm not just ones with shady hiring practices (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687754) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:41 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy you're right, i'm an idiot. my logic was deeply flawed. i made the preposterous assumption that nobody browsing this board unconnected with mwe would e-mail the firm or threaten lawsuits. this assumption is tantamount to assuming sanity and sensibility--patently inappropriate given your posts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687773) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:44 AM Author: 180 locale go suck a lemon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687783) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:28 AM Author: swashbuckling dysfunction brethren Ya, it doesn't really work that way. You can't simply say something is your opinion and then state a fact. And, simple defamation does not require any level of fault. In the case of a first amendment defamation case, then a credible source would likely be enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687916) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:06 AM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy I think you're wrong, and if you're right, the consequences to society would be so detrimental that the law would quickly be changed.
"A defense recognized in most jurisdictions is 'opinion.' If the person makes a statement of opinion as opposed to fact, the statement may not support a cause of action for defamation. Whether a statement is viewed as an expression of fact or opinion can depend upon context - that is, whether or not the person making the statement would be perceived by the community as being in a position to know whether or not it is true. If your employer calls you a pathological liar, it is far less likely to be regarded as opinion than if such a statement is made by somebody you just met. Some jurisdictions have eliminated the distinction between fact and opinion, and instead hold that any statement that suggests a factual basis can support a cause of action for defamation."
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:25 PM Author: swashbuckling dysfunction brethren I am not sure how your definition supports your position. He is making a statement of fact, that MWE did not make offers to a significant number of summers. Clearly, he is presenting himself as being a person in a position to know the truth of this statement. A statement of opinion that would not be actionable would be something like, I think MWE is a horrible firm and nobody should work there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3692595) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:44 PM Author: Purple boltzmann windowlicker "i have forwarded this post to them and they will sue you for libel i hope."
Ooooh! Only two supoenas away! |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:31 AM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687739) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:33 AM Author: 180 locale someone has their panties in a HUGE bunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687748) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:52 PM Author: Cracking toaster stage Nonsense. I'm not wearing any. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689089) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:56 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689738) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:06 AM Author: Shivering potus why not share it now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3688266) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:42 AM Author: 180 locale i need to go to sleep. i am through with the mediocre law students on this thread and this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687777) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:27 AM Author: arousing mewling reading party pocket flask TWO SUBPOENAS AWAY!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3688290) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 12:16 PM Author: Aromatic menage Just go kill yourself... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3688409) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:32 AM Author: glittery hall weed whacker So, are you saying I shouldnt feel too bad about not applying? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3687923) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:30 PM Author: big snowy travel guidebook partner You know, the more I look at this thread, the more I have to believe that the OP got a ding after being a summer associate there. I can definitely see passing along financial trouble/firms that don't give offers to summers...I can see anecdotes like attys making passes at people, even if that stuff speaks less to the firm as a whole.
But the OP seems really motivated to make sure as many people as possible get the idea that this firm is both financially and ethically shaky. The only way I could picture myself this upset at a firm is if they personally slighted me, i.e. gave me the no-offer blackball for a pretty crappy reason.
Until I hear something similar from another source, I would tend to disregard or at least downplay the significance of this information. |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:36 PM Author: Wonderful forum titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689011) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 2:57 PM Author: Buck-toothed appetizing rigpig really tough guy That's true. But if the information he's saying is true, the worst you can say about the OP is that he's (quite reasonably) avoiding outing himself. Someone said that FIVE Michigan students didn't get offers. If that's true, this firm seems to deserve the vitriol.
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:12 PM Author: Plum bat-shit-crazy scourge upon the earth I don't see what the big deal is with the OP. Denise sounds like a self-righteous lunatic. I am going to file suit against "denise" for being so fucking annoying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689199) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:18 PM Author: Wonderful forum The problem is we dont know if MWE acted badly or, if for some reason these 5 kids (all from the same school) were engaged is some kind of outlandish activity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689224) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:20 PM Author: pale roommate If they were, chances are it would be out there by now on GA's or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689232) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 3:20 PM Author: Plum bat-shit-crazy scourge upon the earth We don't have any actual numbers do we? Also, whatever the number, I don't think they were all Michigan students. 5 was a number that was just used as an example.
EDIT: from the OP "MWE decided to not make offers to a significant number of summers this year" |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:25 PM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend What are the odds that the entire UM summer class at MWE decided to go for a naked drunken swim> (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689534) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:29 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689544) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:30 PM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend If this is true, people will remember it for a long time. These things don't go away. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689547) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:32 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689558) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:33 PM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Did he talk to anyone in person, or just avoid everyone? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689565) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:34 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689578) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:36 PM Author: Sienna Awkward Locus Roast Beef classy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689587) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:36 PM Author: Cruel-hearted haunted graveyard legend Wow, that's fucking pussy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689591) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:38 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689601) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:31 PM Author: Wonderful forum Wait, i know this (257C43)/(8!+pi) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689555) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:22 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689526) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:24 PM Author: sooty sex offender Dude is it that bad? I mean c'mon. Its not like they're THAT fucked up with their offers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689531) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 4:27 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3689540) |
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Date: August 27th, 2005 11:19 PM Author: Passionate Brindle Range I might have info on another firm who dinged for no reason. I'll post about it if there's anything there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3692564) |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 8:18 PM Author: Bateful bespoke space FWIW, the people at the McDermott reception tonight said they made offers to "95% of all summer associates". So, if they hosed people at the Chicago office, its very isolated.
They also gave a whole spiel about how they love Michigan students. For the comedic value of it, I kind of wished Ownership Society/Veritas jumped out from under some table at that moment and went on a tirade. |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 8:27 PM Author: well-lubricated french chef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3701302) |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 8:27 PM Author: magenta dilemma macaca how was the reception? were there a lot of students there? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3701305) |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 9:26 PM Author: razzmatazz principal's office That means that if there are 50 summers total, 47 or 48 of them got offers. Sounds like a completely reasonable number. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3701742) |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 9:14 PM Author: Sepia Lascivious Mad-dog Skullcap THE REAL STORY:
McDermott realized what a TTT Michigan has become b/c all of the summers from there were fucking idiots. They cut their losses. Sorry losers! |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 9:26 PM Author: Plum bat-shit-crazy scourge upon the earth yawn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3701743) |
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Date: August 29th, 2005 9:30 PM Author: razzmatazz principal's office I guess a particular Michigan student is pissed that s/he didn't get an offer and has been claiming that tons of people didn't get offers, for economic reasons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=247539&forum_id=2#3701765) |
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Date: September 9th, 2006 2:11 AM Author: turquoise immigrant Looks like an update to this saga:
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=486430&mc=48&forum_id=2 |