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Do we have too many law schools?
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:11 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Subject: From the other (actually countless other) thread Absolutely not. The number of law schools is a function of our free market/supply and demand system. People say there are too many bc it lowers their prestige of calling themself a lawyer, but thats really just tough shit. Ambulance chasers are an important part of the system, its strange that the masses view them in such low regard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908041) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:15 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef ha! THE PROFESSION IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMMUNE TO THE FORCES OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. ITS THE ABA's fucking job to police schools and make sure the supply of lawyer is LIMITED. HTFH. The reason the ABA was first founded was to limit admission. It really takes nothing much to practice law, anyone can learn to do it without law school, law school exists solely as a barrier to entry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908063) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:27 PM Author: hairraiser becky tanning salon You are wise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908142) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:27 PM Author: cruel-hearted aphrodisiac generalized bond Enforcing standards of performance =/= limited the supply of lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908144) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:29 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef yes because in the good old days the old boys who founded the ABA were really thinking about "standards of performance" and not protecting themselves. Is anyone this fucking naive? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908156) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:57 PM Author: Haunting Floppy Theater i think it's part cartel, part standards (at least from an historical explanation). but, i think fear of malpractice should be good enough to provide deterrence, even in the absence of the ABA and bar-accredidation; so these organizations probably are wasteful.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:29 PM Author: black motley gay wizard why is valen so stupid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908158) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:18 PM Author: vermilion theater stage All unaccredited, for-profit, and online/correspondance "law schools" are akin to trade schools like DeVry Institute.
All these TTTs and FTTs might as well give you a free toolbox at graduation.
Face it, degrees from most TTTs/FTTs are just not marketable. Attending these schools is an absolute waste of money, and it takes all the suckers who enroll a full 3 years to figure it out.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:19 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef and roughly half of the non-profit "traditional" law schools also need to go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908084) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:44 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national "and roughly half of the non-profit "traditional" law schools also need to go."
so youre basically saying every school up to and including Tulane is okay, but anything after that is questionable. thats good non-partisan logic |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:24 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm The half-way mark is somewhere in the Santa Clara to McGeorge range, isn't it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908561) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:22 PM Author: black motley gay wizard you're a retard, as always. online school students are usually already gainfully employed when they enroll in online courses. and 3rd, 4th and 2nd tier schools all serve a useful purpose: the graduates of these schools become defense attorneys, ambulance chasers, corporate attorneys, judges, and public interest advocates. the law as a profession isn't merely about biglaw. this is so obvious only an xoxo retard could completely ignore it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908110) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:24 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef do you have any idea how many TTT and TTTT grads NEVER find legal jobs at all? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908118) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: black motley gay wizard i'm sure there are several. but i doubt the percentage is that high. you're too stupid for me to take seriously, so i'm just going to have to go with my gut, which, incidentally, is in accord with common sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908151) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:29 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad since you're so confident the number is really high, why don't you cite us an authority? because i think nearly everyone can find a job for at least 50k. obviously you won't be living like a king with debt and a 50k job, but it's not nearly as bad as never finding a legal job at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908605) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:24 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national exactly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908119) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:32 PM Author: vermilion theater stage "3rd, 4th and 2nd tier schools all serve a useful purpose"
...to make money/enlarge endowments. Keep in mind I never belitted 2nd tier schools (which I believe, as you do...serve a "higher" purpose). I'm mostly referring to the 3rd/4th tier schools with sub-50% bar passage rates.
"the law as a profession isn't merely about biglaw"
Of course it's not, but there are more than enough folks at the Top 100 schools who don't go the biglaw route that can fill all the legal roles you've listed above (judges, defense attorneys, public interest, etc.)
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:36 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national There wouldnt be enough litigators w/ 100 schools (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908206) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:40 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Of course there would. There are currently well over 1 MILLION licensed attorneys in the United States. That's roughly one out of every 250 people in the country.
Keeping in mind: (a) the average JD practicing law (in some form) practices until age 50, and (b) almost all law schools have more than 300 students (total), and some law schools have well over 1000 students...there would be a very healthy supply of attorneys to fill our country's legal needs if we just cut the amount of American law schools in half. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:43 PM Author: black motley gay wizard haha, what a completely vacuous analysis. now tell us "what our country's legal needs" are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908256) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:51 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Imagine you're on trial for your life, who would you want to represent you?
Imagine you have to plan to acquire a new subsidiary corporation, and any wrong legal move can cost you tens of MILLIONS. Who would you want to represent you?
Imagine you are representing a man on trial for his life (bench trial), and all the facts and laws are on your side, but the prosecution has been playing to the court's sympathies for the entire trial. Who would you want on the bench?
If your answer to any of the above is a TTT/FTT over a 1st or 2nd tier graduate...you're just lying. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:59 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national why is it so hard for you to understand that there are other jobs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908359) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:59 PM Author: black motley gay wizard first, you didn't answer the question. it should have been obvious that you can't. that's what happens when you make retarded claims.
"If your answer to any of the above is a TTT/FTT over a 1st or 2nd tier graduate...you're just lying."
hmmm. it appears that the answer should be obvious, right? right. so if this is true, then i'm sure no big name corporate defendant would ever hire TTT counsel. and i'm sure no big name defendant accused of insider trading or securities fraud would ever hire someone from a school like . . . southwestern. right? right. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:29 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm Given the outcome of that trial they might want to rethink. But point taken. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908604) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:00 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary it's not about what you WANT. instead, it's about what you can AFFORD.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad now imagine you're filling in some legal forms, or you need to write a very simple will. how much legal talent do you want to pay for? if your answer is that you are willing to shell out $500/hr so a hotshot from the top of his class at NYU can pull out the forms and fill in the blanks... you're just lying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908622) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:55 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national 1 MILLION? thanks for the caps jackass. the number itself is irrelevant, its relative to demand. btw, 1 out of 250 people being a licensed attorney is a complete fabrication. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908343) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:00 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Last I heard there were roughly 250 Million people in the US (granted, last time I even checked this number was a few years ago).
I know for a fact that there are over 1 Million licensed attorneys in America because every major legal magazine ran a story last year when the landmark 1 Millionth license was handed out.
You do the math. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:02 PM Author: black motley gay wizard there are way more than 250 mill people in the US. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908390) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 9:41 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
298,901,118
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:11 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national I dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows, and I dont need your fuzzy stats to know that the ratio is not 1/250. Think for a second about how many people don't even graduate high school. Then think about how many of those dont graduate college. Then think about how many of those dont get anything more than a BA. Add that to your own claims of all these poor people that cant even pass the bar (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908456) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:15 PM Author: vermilion theater stage According to www.census.gov, there are currently 298,899,985 people in America.
At the very LEAST, the ratio of lawyers-to-American citizens is 1:300. Does that number work better for you? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:17 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary does "licensed" mean "practicing"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908503) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:20 PM Author: black motley gay wizard killingyousoftly seems to be very bad with interpreting basic facts. why is this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908527) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:21 PM Author: vermilion theater stage "Practicing" means "licensed", but not the other way around.
However, it would safe to assume that since the JD is a professional skills degree, that does not provide its holders with any special skills outside the legal field, that most people who are "licensed" make their living by "practicing" in some form or another.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:25 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary don't a lot of people leave the profession, due to dissatisfaction? it's likely that they would keep an active license, however, for any number of reasons.
we need to know how many "licensed" lawyers are actually practicing 1) full time, 2) p/t, 3)occasionally, 4)never |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:29 PM Author: vermilion theater stage A lot of people leave Biglaw due to satisfaction, but not the profession as a whole. Many who can't stand firm life move on to government jobs, corporate in-house work, solo practice, etc. They still "practice", just in a different capacity.
Why do we need to know how many "licensed" lawyers are actually practicing? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:35 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary because you were claiming that we had too many lawyers. your support was the number of "licensed" lawyers. but "licensed" does not necessarily mean "available" for work.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:27 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national That might be your worst assumption yet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908590) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Explain to me the logic in paying $150+K to attend a FTT or unaccredited law school, where the average graduate stands to make less than $35K upon graduation.
You might as well have just gotten a job out of college and worked your way up the ladder for 3 years.
The opportunity cost of attending most FTT's these days simply does not justify enrollment.
If a law school is not worth the tuition you pay to attend it...why keep it open? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:36 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national I never said people should go to them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908651) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:41 PM Author: vermilion theater stage touche. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908689) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:36 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary because most of these people are perfectly fine with the shitty pay. they're more interested in saying, "hello, I'm a lawyer." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908654) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:39 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary Subject: and here's another reason Perhaps as a result of competition for attorney positions, lawyers are increasingly finding work in nontraditional areas for which legal training is an asset, but not normally a requirement—for example, administrative, managerial, and business positions in banks, insurance firms, real estate companies, government agencies, and other organizations. Employment opportunities are expected to continue to arise in these organizations at a growing rate.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:40 PM Author: black motley gay wizard average starting salary =/= average lifetime salary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908685) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:45 PM Author: vermilion theater stage That's right, there's always the chance they might strike gold as plaintiff's attorneys with a multi-million dollar tort suit against Big Oil or Big Tobacco.
Please do not attempt to argue that attending ANY law school, no matter how poor, is guaranteed to boost your lifetime earnings.
There are so many other types of grad/professional schools these folks could attend and stand to make more money in the long run. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:49 PM Author: black motley gay wizard here it is again: "average starting salary =/= average lifetime salary." the reason i'm reposting it is because your response has almost nothing to do with it. thus, i'm assuming you misunderstood it. (a justified assumption, i'm sure you agree.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908739) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:55 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Perhaps you misunderstood my response.
I said FTT's/unaccredited schools are not worth the price of tuition (since their graduates make so little upon graduation).
You responded by saying that salary at graduation =/= average lifetime salary...thereby suggesting that perhaps their FTT law degrees will pay off "in the long run" (read: over their lifetime, if not immediately upon graduation).
My response challenged that presumption, suggesting alternatively that the same folks who attend FTT's/non-ABA schools would likely be better of "in the long run" by pursuing a whole different career, rather than wasting 3 years of income-earning (and $150+K in loans) to attend such a subpar institution.
Is this more clear? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:03 PM Author: black motley gay wizard very bad reasoning. first, if we were to extend your latest ridiculous, badly thought out reasoning a bit, we'd come to the conclusion that everyone should pursue a career in medicine, because they'd likely be better off "in the long run" than if they chose a career in law. this conclusion is so inherently moronic that it defeats itself. perhaps an HLS grad, whose lifetime earnings per year would likely approach multiples of a hundred thousand, should pursue a career as a professional basketball player, because pro basketball players make millions a year, on average, and thus, a pro basketball career is better "in the long run" for HLS grads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908838) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:12 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Wow, and you criticize me for thinking in black-and-white?
If you haven't gathered this fact yet, my posts speak in broad generalities.
Generally speaking, a graduate of a FTT/non-ABA school will ultimately regret their decision to attend (unless the title of "lawyer" is so self-gratifying that they will happily welcome unemployment/poverty to be called such by their friends and neighbors).
Perhaps I have known too many FTT's in my lifetime, or seen them begging for jobs on Craiglist too often...that I have arrived at my "poorly reasoned" conclusions. But they are my conclusions nonetheless. I simply don't see the need to perpetuate the creation of new law schools when so many competent and qualified JD's are unemployed/underemployed in this country.
If you wish to rebut this (or any other) post in this thread, please refer to my concession at the very bottom of the page.
Unfortunately, I have a brief due Tuesday which currently merits my attention. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:28 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm << (a) the average JD practicing law (in some form) practices until age 50 >>
Where are you getting that figure from? I've read that the average lawyer is 47 years old. That means it's possible, but highly unlikely, that the average lawyer also leaves law at 50. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:37 PM Author: black motley gay wizard i have no idea where you got the idea that i think TTTs serve a "higher" purpose. and your last sentence is the most retarded thing i've ever heard in my life. why are you being purposefully stupid dood? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908211) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:45 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Have you ever been to JDJive.com?
Spend a half hour reading threads there, and then tell me (honestly) that you don't think there are too many law schools in America.
When JD's (even decently qualified JD's) have to resort to paralegal jobs, clerical work, temp jobs, and contract doc review jobs...all just to make a living...it's a sign that the market is SATURATED with legal grads.
These new FTT's that are born every year or so (accepting students with sub-140 LSATS and sub-2.5 GPA's) are doing nothing more cashing in on all the hopes and dreams of complete dummies who grew up watching "The Practice" or "Ally McBeal" and are determined to become "lawyers" no matter what...even though, in reality, they don't have the intellect for it, and would likely make a better living in a different "skills" profession.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:54 PM Author: black motley gay wizard that many graduates of a certain school do doc review or other unglamorous jobs doesn't mean that school should be closed. this is an important point which probably bears repeating, as i have no idea why you're not grasping it. the graduate of even the worst ABA law school isn't fatally unemployable, although their job hunt will be much harder than someone who graduated from Columbia. but that still doesn't mean we should close that school, unless you're saying we should close down all schools whose graduates tend to face a tough job hunt, in which case we'd have to close a great many law schools, undergraduate schools, community colleges, and a whole lot of other stuff (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908332) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: vermilion theater stage "that still doesn't mean we should close that school, unless you're saying we should close down all schools whose graduates tend to face a tough job hunt"
There are some students in the T14 who face a tough job hunt (sad, but true).
There are many more who face a tough job hunt at schools ranked #15-#25.
And there are exponetially more students who face a tough job hunt as the schools fall below 30, 50, and 100...to the point where students attending unaccredited schools, online law schools, and rancid FTT's are virtually unemployable at graduation, regardless of their class rank.
Why do you wish to create so much competition among the lower-rungs of the profession? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:09 PM Author: black motley gay wizard not all law school graduates are competing for a slave associate position at jones, night and day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908448) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:18 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Jesus christ, get off this Biglaw kick. I'm not so simpleminded as to think that big firm life is the only possible legal profession.
Believe it or not, some T14 students have problems finding ANY legal employmant AT ALL. Some T14 students NEVER PASS THE BAR.
Now if these few T14 folks, highly academically credentialed, cannot find any gainful employment...what do you think becomes of graduates of schools that are a dozen leagues or so behind the T14 (those with paltry entry-level requirements and bar pass rates)? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: black motley gay wizard just in case it's not obvious yet, temporary unemployment (i.e., looking for a job at graduation) =/= unemployability.
"Believe it or not, some T14 students have problems finding ANY legal employmant AT ALL."
at worst, this is completely false. at best, it is meaningless, unless you define what "gainful" means. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:39 PM Author: vermilion theater stage What I mean is that many JD's are forced to work in NON-LEGAL jobs as a product of being otherwise unemployable.
I know of quite a few JD's working for banks, department stores, and even a strip mall shoe store (none of them in a legal capacity) who all *wanted* to be lawyers at graduation but either: (a) couldn't pass the bar; or (b) passed the bar, but couldn't find a living wage as an attorney, and turned elsewhere to make their living.
If you really believe that any Top 100 law school grad can find a job as a lawyer if they simply *try* hard enough...you're far more naive than I. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:45 PM Author: black motley gay wizard um, graduates who can't pass the bar *shouldn't* be able to find gainful employment as lawyers. you're acting as if it's remarkable that a bar failee should have trouble finding legal work. oh, and NON-LEGAL, even when capitalized, does not mean the opposite of "gainful." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908716) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:51 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Perhaps I should've qualfied my post as "gainful LEGAL" employment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908751) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:49 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national By your claims, one would get the impression that 2/3 of the country has graduated law school.
"If you really believe that any Top 100 law school grad can find a job as a lawyer if they simply *try* hard enough...you're far more naive than I."
Of course not, plenty of idiots can try all day and still fail. Thats one of the few saving graces of the bar |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:55 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary lol, we don't need a nanny state. adults take risks. adults live with the outcomes. the function of gov't is not to protect you from yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908344) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:17 PM Author: Cobalt Godawful Meetinghouse Subject: JdJive I'm a regular on JdJIve and have posted there off and on since I finished law school.
Jdjive is only one small message board. My attorney friends don't even know it exists (and if they do, they are amused by it and don't take any of the BS posted there that seriously).
For all we know, the posts are made by a minority of bitter and disgruntled unemployed law grads..and just need to vent on a public message board. For all we know, it could be 5 people who post 50 messages a day. You can't judge the entire legal profession based on 1 message board, for cripes sake, there is a thread with 200 messages about how Fordham Law is a toilet school...thats as bad as this board trashing schools in the Top 25 as 'toilets'. Give me a break.
I attended what many on this board would call a TT (NYC Tier 2) and turned out just fine job-wise. So did many of my classmates at the T2 and several others from SJU, Hofstra, NYLS and Pace. The ones who are whining on JdJive are the non-ABA grads who feel insecure about their employment chances or the bar retakers who feel the need to create alter egos to make it seem like the profession is worse than it is.
HTH.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:24 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Again, I never said anything about shutting down 2nd tier schools or schools like NYLS and Pace. But non-ABA law schools, for-profit law schools, and correspondance law schools appear to serve no purpose other than to increased the unemployed population of JD's.
They are simply not worth the cost of admission, and therefore, are more of a burden than a service-provider. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:35 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film I would take it further and cut down 3rd and 4th tier schools. 2nd tier ones can take care of private claims. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908645) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:38 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad you also seem to think that third tier and fourth tier law schools should be shut down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908670) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:49 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Not all of them, just those with horrendously low admissions standards and bar pass rates.
If you score below a 140 on an exam scored between 120-180, chances are not greatly in your favor that you will pass the Bar Exam (an exam of MINIMAL legal competence in most states). |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:52 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad what accredited school admits non-URM's with 140s? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908767) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:55 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film 140 should killself. 140? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908780) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:10 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad well that was not responsive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908874) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:46 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film The OP's idiotic argument goes the following:
1) high number of lawyers exist because there is a demand for TTT lawyers. 2) This demand is controlled by market force. Assumption: Anything created by the market force is Good and should be tolerated. Therefore, Ambulence chasers are good.
Something to this effect. The OP equates demand produced by market with being justified.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef the very fact that we call them TTT's indicates that demand is not on their side. Notice how there are no TTT med students or TTT med schools. Even "ttt" doctors make crazy $$$. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908323) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:39 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad alternatively, this could be an argument for opening more medical schools. not everyone wants to or can afford to pay "crazy $$$" for medical care. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908682) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:59 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national The ambulance chaser part was a separate point, not a conclusion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908367) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:07 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Not really. The ambulance chaser thing was further elaboration.
The main point was that we shouldn't cut down the number of law schools.
And the OP's evidence was the market force..oooooo
We don't need TTT lawyers. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: black motley gay wizard aside from the one or two liberal faggots, or the group of trust fund communists, not many people at the most prestigious schools will ever choose to work for a public interest outfit or as a defense attorney in some TTT district. without TTTs and their TTT graduates, huge segments of the population will have their legal needs ignored. this of course will lead to death, because the poors will revolt and inevitably kill each other. after killing themselves, the poors will then focus their attention on the rest of us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908520) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:24 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film You are giving an extremely hypothetical situation where TTT attorneys disappear overnight.
The market structure will gradually change. Harvard students will have to take small cases. And by that time sole practice will not be looked down upon. They will still be called attorneys and highly respected.
When is the last time some one made fun of their local family physician just because he doesn't work at a big hospital? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: black motley gay wizard whoa, this is very bad reasoning. if the only options available to a great majority of HLS students was a $35k a year gig at a public interest place, or the arduous prospect of starting a solo practice (i'm not sure you understand what starting a solo practice entails), then attending HLS confers no benefit, or not enough of a benefit to waste $150k and 3 years of your professional earning years. your post really makes no sense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908659) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:41 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Woah. Once again. you are in your hypothetical world. THINK!
By that time a HLS sole practioner will not make 35K. He will make way more since he will get many more cases.
I don't think you have any clue what solo practice is. You probably read shit on this board but that is probably it huh?
Instead of there being 20 local attorneys to call and price shop around, consumers will have only 2~3 lawyers in town.
So ..do the math. And trust me. 35K lawyers are 35K lawyers because they have time left over. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:56 PM Author: black motley gay wizard examine your claim for a moment, becuase i'm not sure you've considered all its implications. ask yourself why an HLS grad (as opposed to a loyola grad, or a student who could only get into a TTT) is deserving of "more cases." ask yourself why a loyola grad doesn't deserve the opportunity to earn the privilege of proclaiming himself a lawyer. beyond that, ask yourself what will happen when consumers no longer have 20 lawyers to choose from, but only one. have you considered these things? or do you even understand them? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908785) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:10 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Yes. The prestige will go up.
Loyola solo practitioners rip people off. HLS student (with so much prestige) will have that conservative noble paternalistic mentality. He will treat his clients like his children.
Arent' you the one who said TTT loyola lawyers are making 35K? This would imply that some lawyers are not really getting enough cases. Why not cut down the number of lawyers and see if there are enough cases.
The negative connotation attached to "solo practice" will disappear.
PReSTIGE! |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:18 PM Author: black motley gay wizard LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908936) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:44 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film solo practice will NOT be the same. It will be kind of like your local physician. that level of respect. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908709) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:33 PM Author: hairraiser becky tanning salon 3rd, 4th and 2nd tier schools all serve a useful purpose: the graduates of these schools become defense attorneys, ambulance chasers, corporate attorneys, judges, and public interest advocates.
judges? you've gotta be kidding me public interest advocates? a lot of these people are highly credentialed. The failing grads who need money are working temp jobs.
I'm not going to continue. You're a moron. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:38 PM Author: black motley gay wizard "I'm not going to continue."
good idea. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:23 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Who gives a shit. So you have to actually do good work to build a rep for yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908116) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:24 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef ha! If only it were that simple. Shitloads of people coming out of TTT's NEVER pass the bar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908125) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national good, then you shouldnt be worried about the erosion of the barrier of entry (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908153) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:18 PM Author: 180 primrose resort boistinker 120 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908080) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:23 PM Author: Transparent persian Lawyers are not pop-tarts or widgets. Please try again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908112) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:25 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Law stopped being a 'learned profession' a long, long time ago. Its a business and all types of people are needed to fill roles. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908130) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:29 PM Author: Transparent persian My point is that not everything can be justified or explained simply in terms of supply and demand. Yes there is a supply of lawyers and a demand for lawyers, but the market for lawyers is vastly more complicated, and its impact more far-reaching, than the market for some meaningless material good.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:34 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national If you believe we have too much litigation, wouldnt it make more sense to change the laws rather than the supply of lawyers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908192) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:38 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef the trial lawyer lobby is to powerful and who the fuck do you think sits in congress? Lawyers thats who. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908213) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:38 PM Author: Transparent persian Economic forces (too many lawyers, not enough work) have a way of subverting or avoiding inflexible codified rules. It's better to control incentives than to attempt to control their consequences. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908218) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:41 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908240) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:49 PM Author: Transparent persian ?? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908300) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:43 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national There is enough work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908252) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:48 PM Author: Transparent persian I wish I could find a link to the paper, but the gist of it is that beyond a certain optimum number, an excess of lawyers are actually a drag on the economy. The country becomes overly litigious, and suffers as a consequence. There is enough work because lawyers create their own work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908293) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:03 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary now there's an "optimum" number of lawyers. you're def. in contention for greatest actor in a comedy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908402) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:05 PM Author: Transparent persian All of your counter-arguments are well supported and on-topic. You don't look like an idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908419) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:07 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary i enjoyed the irony of this post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908435) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:14 PM Author: Transparent persian Keep dodging you clueless retard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908482) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:18 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary why are you so angry? are you one of those ttt grad's doing temp work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908519) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:20 PM Author: Transparent persian I'm not angry at all. I was just stating a fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908530) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:23 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary opinion \= fact (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908555) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:29 PM Author: Transparent persian You were dodging and you are a clueless retard. It is not my opinion, it is fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908603) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary i pointed out that the market is a great regulator of the demand for lawyers. further constraints are unnecessary. i'm unsure as to why this point is lost on you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908626) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:35 PM Author: Transparent persian Where? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908641) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908344 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908664) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:48 PM Author: Transparent persian That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Also, govt has a role in protecting society as a whole, which is what we're talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908735) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:21 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Actually, in 2000 the ABA estimated that only 1/3 of the demand for legal work was being met. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908533) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:27 PM Author: Transparent persian That seems preposterous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908589) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:31 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary Employment of lawyers is expected to grow about as fast as average for all occupations through 2014, primarily as a result of growth in the population and in the general level of business activities. Job growth among lawyers also will result from increasing demand for legal services in such areas as health care, intellectual property, venture capital, energy, elder, antitrust, and environmental law.
In addition, the wider availability and affordability of legal clinics should result in increased use of legal services by middle-income people. However, growth in demand for lawyers will be limited as businesses, in an effort to reduce costs, increasingly use large accounting firms and paralegals to perform some of the same functions that lawyers do. For example, accounting firms may provide employee-benefit counseling, process documents, or handle various other services previously performed by a law firm. Also, mediation and dispute resolution increasingly are being used as alternatives to litigation.
Competition for job openings should continue to be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year. Graduates with superior academic records from highly regarded law schools will have the best job opportunities.
Perhaps as a result of competition for attorney positions, lawyers are increasingly finding work in nontraditional areas for which legal training is an asset, but not normally a requirement—for example, administrative, managerial, and business positions in banks, insurance firms, real estate companies, government agencies, and other organizations. Employment opportunities are expected to continue to arise in these organizations at a growing rate.
As in the past, some graduates may have to accept positions in areas outside of their field of interest or for which they feel overqualified. Some recent law school graduates who have been unable to find permanent positions are turning to the growing number of temporary staffing firms that place attorneys in short-term jobs until they are able to secure full-time positions. This service allows companies to hire lawyers on an “as-needed” basis and permits beginning lawyers to develop practical skills while looking for permanent positions.
Because of the keen competition for jobs, a law graduate’s geographic mobility and work experience assume greater importance. The willingness to relocate may be an advantage in getting a job, but to be licensed in another State, a lawyer may have to take an additional State bar examination. In addition, employers are increasingly seeking graduates who have advanced law degrees and experience in a specialty, such as tax, patent, or admiralty law.
Employment growth for lawyers will continue to be concentrated in salaried jobs, as businesses and all levels of government employ a growing number of staff attorneys and as employment in the legal services industry grows. Most salaried positions are in urban areas where government agencies, law firms, and big corporations are concentrated. The number of self-employed lawyers is expected to decrease slowly, reflecting the difficulty of establishing a profitable new practice in the face of competition from larger, established law firms. Moreover, the growing complexity of law, which encourages specialization, along with the cost of maintaining up-to-date legal research materials, favors larger firms.
For lawyers who wish to work independently, establishing a new practice will probably be easiest in small towns and expanding suburban areas. In such communities, competition from larger, established law firms is likely to be less keen than in big cities, and new lawyers may find it easier to become known to potential clients.
Some lawyers are adversely affected by cyclical swings in the economy. During recessions, demand declines for some discretionary legal services, such as planning estates, drafting wills, and handling real estate transactions. Also, corporations are less likely to litigate cases when declining sales and profits result in budgetary restrictions. Some corporations and law firms will not hire new attorneys until business improves, and these establishments may even cut staff to contain costs. Several factors, however, mitigate the overall impact of recessions on lawyers; during recessions, for example, individuals and corporations face other legal problems, such as bankruptcies, foreclosures, and divorces requiring legal action.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 9:43 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm "Demand," in the economic sense, refers to WILLINGNESS and ABILITY to acquire a good or service. It most certainly does not just refer to willingness. If that were the case, it would have no meaning because who doesn't want everything? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5909954) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:40 PM Author: black motley gay wizard "meaningless material good"
eh. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:43 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film You are being such an ignorant fool. Just stfu and kill self. The market can't explain why TTTs schools continue to produce unemployeed lawyers.
We as a society have a problem. And ambulence chasers do create their own demands (although this is un-econ way of thinking).
Ambulence chasers are not important part of the system. They create their own demand. It's is sort of like digging a hole and filling it up with sand again.
The ultimate question is: Is a market system that produce unnecessary ambulence chasers in itself problematic? yes. Can we fix that? Sure. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:51 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Its understandable why an ambulance chase would be hated by Warren Buffet or Hank Greenberg, but the average worker shouldnt mind them. they are much more likely to be a plaintiff.
Personal injury litigation improves the safety of products and decreases malpractice. Likewise, it opens a door to justice that would otherwise be unavailable to the poor. The fact that ambulance chasers do it for self-serving reasons is simply part of our free market society |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:55 PM Author: Transparent persian There are serious negative consequences that arise from an excess of frivolous litigation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908339) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:58 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Yes, just as there are serious consequences of too many frivolous defenses of valid claims. A blanket rejection of 'too much litigation' favors the powerful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908356) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:01 PM Author: Transparent persian I disagree. I cannot prove you wrong, but I'd like to see some proof from your end concerning the benefits accrued to the poor because your argument in itself is unconvincing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908386) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:09 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national The alternative is to do nothing, or at best less. Personal injury type work increases litigation by people who wouldnt otherwise know they have a right for repayment of wrongdoing in a court of law. Whether thats from segregation, malpractice, radiation, cigarettes etc., instituting a blanket reduction on litigation favors those in power - primarily the govt or large corporations. Its slightly ironic that the corporate attorney from an elite school who represents a tobacco company is highly regarded but the ttt personal injury attorney is villified. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908447) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:18 PM Author: Transparent persian It's your assumption that personal injury is little guy versus corporation that's unsubstantiated. It would be just as plausible that it's little guy versus "mr chow's chicken shack". In this case, little guy gets massive settlement, and mr chow ( also a lttle guy) gets fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908515) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:23 PM Author: Cobalt Godawful Meetinghouse Subject: from a defense attorneys perspective "t would be just as plausible that it's little guy versus "mr chow's chicken shack". In this case, little guy gets massive settlement, and mr chow ( also a lttle guy) gets fucked."
Actually no. The little guy wil take home several thousand dollars as part of a global settlement, while the "Chicken Truck"'s insurance company will be writing out the check. Nothing will happen to the truck man, apart from a rise in premiums. It works like car insurance, the more risk you portray, the more you pay.....
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:34 PM Author: Transparent persian "apart from a rise in premiums"
Sounds like getting fucked to me.
Nor would this be an isolated incident, as every owner of a "chicken truck" type business would eventually have to pay higher premiums to compensate for the higher risk of litigation. The higher cost of running the business would push a certain amount of Mr chows out of the market, and little Chinny Chow would not have any food on her plate.
Why do you want little chinese girls to starve? |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:42 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national If the guy gets sick from Mr Chow serving sweet and sour pigeon, a lawsuit decreases the risk of someone else getting sick both from Mr. Chow and his rival Hunan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908700) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:54 PM Author: Transparent persian Right, but does the guy getting sick deserve a 3 million dollar settlement for "emotional damages"? Especially when the consequence of this settlement is to deprive the respectable huan of huan's spicy chicken feet of a job and consumers of delicious, mobile chinese fare. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908772) |
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Date: June 7th, 2006 8:28 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national A) What one deserves from a given settlement is a completely separate issue. You can have a reasonable settlement without eliminating the lawsuit altogether.
B) While any outrageous settlement is one too many, it stands to reason that such settlements are very rare. Otherwise, you would see more 'prestigious' grads doing personal injury. People sell out for a lot less money and for a lot more questionable schemes than suing a restaurant.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:21 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Wow. A typical ambulance chaser mentality.
Don't you think there are better ways to inform possible victims than to allow TTT lawyers to file frivolous claims?
A devils advocate from a top laws chool is NOT highly regarded. I know that both sides are evil. The plaintiff's attorney files a stupid claim. The defense attorney talks shit on the plaintiff's attorney (calling him evil/douche/TTT/what not) but purposely drags the case for years with an intention of settling after few years. He has to milk the big companies before letting them go ;)
But...there are other ways than allowing this to go on.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:26 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national "Don't you think there are better ways to inform possible victims than to allow TTT lawyers to file frivolous claims?"
Absolutely. But until the system is changed, they comprise a necessary evil. Limiting the supply of lawyers is not the way to change the system.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:11 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Dude. A frivolous defense does not HARM the society as much as a frivolous claim. Think about it. No I am not going to say it. Just think about it. It will help you when you start Vandy in the fall. There IS a big difference.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:14 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national I never said they were equal, dOOd. And if the claim is weak, the market effect of the contingency-fee mechanism will likely prevent a lawsuit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908484) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Nope.
have you heard of settlement? And some times the defendant can't ask for attorney's fee so the losing plaintiff does not have ANYthings pulling him back.
9/10 cases settle outside the court right?
Look, I understand where you are coming from. And I have issues with not only ambulance chasers but the evil big firms too. But frivolous claims are harmful.
How many times did you hear, "ewww.. you are gonna be a lawyer?....aren't there too many of them?"
IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE LAWYERS ARE REGARDED MORE PRESTIGIOUS THAN DOCTORS, you don't hear "ewww. lawyer?" You hear, "ohhh...I will let you fuck my daughter anyday sir."
For the sake of our prestige! For gods sake, we don't need TTT lawyers. Trust me. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:46 PM Author: Ivory personal credit line national Trust me, I wish it was more prestigious but unfortunately thats not reason enough... those other countries are also more prone to getting railed by the govt and big business... If it was that great elesewhere, why would you want to practice in the US? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908722) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:54 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Because of three reasons:
1) english is the only language I speak 2) I probably can't pass other countries ridiculous hard bar 3) I probably will make more money here.
don't you think asking me why I won't practice outside the US is childish? Come on. You know that's immature. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:35 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film usually the plaintiff harrasses the defense to settle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908640) |
Date: June 4th, 2006 5:20 PM Author: comical puppy we don't have enough law schools. firms are so desperate for lawyers they are willing to pay 145k to people with no experience. the ABA needs to get in gear and start accrediting more schools (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908089) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:23 PM Author: Transparent persian Joke? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908115) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:25 PM Author: black motley gay wizard it's his shtick. sometimes his sarcasm is sweetly subtle; sometimes it's retarded and comes off as bad humor. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908128) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: hairraiser becky tanning salon Only a FAG would refer to himself as "enchilada". hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908150) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:29 PM Author: black motley gay wizard this is true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908162) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:31 PM Author: Transparent persian He's an excellent poster, so I give him the benefit of the doubt when I diagree. You, on the other hand, are off to a shitty start. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908170) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:27 PM Author: iridescent stain sanctuary he means we don't have enough QUALITY law schools (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908147) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:46 PM Author: Vivacious parlour fat ankles To equalize supply and demand, the ABA should eliminate 22-100, T3, and T4. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908277) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 5:57 PM Author: Mind-boggling mediation even that really isnt necessary, make the number a nice round 100. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908352) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:00 PM Author: black motley gay wizard haha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908376) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:34 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm Prices (i.e. salaries) will have no trouble equalizing supply and demand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908639) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:51 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad nah, let's get rid of all of 3-187. yale and stanford, one on each coast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908757) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:57 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Now THAT is going against the market force . We need more lawyers than that.
We don't need TTTs.
Good luck at vandy. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:12 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad no way man, lawyers just sue people which is inefficient because it's like digging holes and filling them in again. therefore the fewer lawyers the better. cut it back to these two schools and you only get about 370 new lawyers per year. THAT IS HYPER-EFFICIENT!!!!1 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908890) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 10:30 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film You need more than that! 200+ lawschools with 70% bar passage rate is ridiculous. But having 2 schools sounds as ridiculous. Try to find a middle ground! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5910325) |
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Date: June 7th, 2006 8:43 PM Author: brilliant marvelous chad no! litigation is a drain on society! your analysis is flawless! only about 375 lawyers per year means litigation would be even more expensive and therefore there would be less of it! HOLY TESTICULAR ELEPHANTITIS BATMAN, IT IS SO FUCKING EFFICIENT! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5933861) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:14 PM Author: Tantric digit ratio yes, but it's a moot point, because aside from about 6 or 7 schools we won't have to come across people from the vast majority of law schools. well, you might. but i won't. hahahaha losers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908485) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 6:25 PM Author: Useless pisswyrm It depends what your goals are. If you have goals more like the public's goals, then there might not be enough law schools. If you have goals more like those of someone who is or will be going to a decent law school, then there are probably far too many law schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908575) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:05 PM Author: vermilion theater stage Bull Connor, mirror, and J. Cohen win.
There are clearly not enough law schools in America, and so long as the market is willing to bear the creation of new law schools, everyone else should just deal with it.
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:11 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film The market is obviously not willing if there are many 35K TTT lawyers (according to Bull Connor). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5908888) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:14 PM Author: vermilion theater stage You can handle these folks, somatic. Regrettably, I have a brief to write this evening and cannot pursue this argument any further.
God speed in fighting the good fight. |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 7:55 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film I have to go too. READE! Are there. help me out! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5909231) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 9:58 PM Author: Purple Rigpig Church why do you faggots care if some crappy lawyers will never get jobs? It's none of your concern. There's no need to regulate how many law schools because people can't practice unless they pass the bar. But in any case, allowing more lawyers is never a matter of life and death. At least for doctors, allowing more doctors could literally be a matter of life or death because of the nature of their profession. All the talk about the drain on society is stupid bullshit, but if for some reason it's necessary to reduce the number of lawyers, it makes more sense to make the bar more difficult than pick and choose which schools should choose (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5910067) |
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Date: June 4th, 2006 10:28 PM Author: Irradiated rose giraffe stag film Bar in US=joke TTT attorneys=damaging general prestige of REAL attorneys. |
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Date: June 7th, 2006 7:55 PM Author: Stimulating Fanboi anyone who thinks we should shut down T3 and T4 schools has obviously never been bitten by their neighbor's dog, had trouble getting a security deposit back from a landlord, or been sold a lemon by a used car salesman.
This isn't mocking. Day to day shit like that happens ALLLLLLLL time time and a TTT lawyer is still 1000 times better equipped to deal with it than a non-lawyer.
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Date: June 7th, 2006 8:42 PM Author: aquamarine idea he suggested french chef and there are more than enough T2 and even T1 lawyers handling cases like this that the t3 and t4 variety have one hell of a hard time even getting work like this. There are schools where 9 months after graduation roughly 1/3 of students or more are unemployed, these poor people have basically wasted 3 years and 100k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=427849&forum_id=2#5933855) |