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XO Audiophile Poll: Do you believe DACs make a difference?
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Date: October 20th, 2026 1:55 PM Author: Drunken sienna point Does anyone think a 100 dollar DAC and a 2000 dollar DAC sound different? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198401) |
Date: October 20th, 2026 2:02 PM Author: Arousing Alcoholic Indian Lodge of course they make a difference. you know nothing of Engineering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198417) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:07 PM Author: Drunken sienna point Can you tell the difference in a blind test?
What external DAC are you rocking right now? |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:10 PM Author: Arousing Alcoholic Indian Lodge I don't have an external component DAC but I have a receiver and preamp and all that. DACs don't have to external to be quality but there are definitely shitty low-quality ones. that's why Apple Airpods sound better than an equivalent chinky product, because Apple has superior DAC in theirs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198433) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:17 PM Author: Drunken sienna point All the research shows that basically all shitty DACs were phased outside decades ago. We're talking about home stereo setups not earbuds off of Amazon. If you have an integrated DAC that doesn't mean it's bad. I have an integrated DAC. My question is should I upgrade and does anyone believe you can really hear a difference? It's obviously a fun experiment to find out if you can hear a difference at all between a decent or good DAC and an amazing DAC. I'm pretty skeptical that there's any difference. I would be more shocked to learn that in a blind test people could hear the difference between a hundred dollar DAC and a 2000 dollar one. But you seem happy with the DAC that came with your amplifier. I'm sure it's fine. And actually since I'm a DAC skeptic my guess is that yours is just as good as any other DAC and no one would ever know the difference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198441) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:25 PM Author: animeboi (.) I swear by my Bricasti DAC and Machina Dynamica Ultra Signature Version of the Clever Little Clock. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198454) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:27 PM Author: Drunken sienna point What does the Clock do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198458) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:30 PM Author: animeboi (.) The Clever Little Clock is a battery-powered travel clock that's been modified using a number of highly specialized techniques. The Clever Little Clock does not plug into the wall and has no influence on house wiring, audio components, cables, interconnects, power cords or acoustic waves in the room. Yet the Clever Little Clock has a pronounced affect on the sound in the room. In addition, the picture quality any video system will be improved - the video picture will be clearer, with better color saturation and contrast, with blacker blacks, more realistic skin tone and fabric texture, etc.
Place the clock anywhere in your listening room. You will hear less distortion, more information, a deeper, more coherent soundstage and more air. One or more additional Clever Little Clocks will further improve the sound. The Clever Little Clock provides excellent results for the car's stereo/FM radio system.
The Clever Little Clock is pre-set by Machina Dynamica and should NOT be re-set or adjusted in any way.
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:40 PM Author: Drunken sienna point Do you really think an external clock improves the sound? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198471) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:46 PM Author: animeboi (.) Yes whenever I play my Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab Gold CD reissue of Cheap Trick: Live at the Budokan with the Clock in the room I can hear warmer tones and decreased sibilance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198479) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 3:03 PM Author: Drunken sienna point Lmao 180 flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198502) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 5:55 PM Author: FizzKidd (Hah-tuh uh Dah-kuh-ness) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198758) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 2:52 PM Author: Fracture in the Maidenhead (gunneratttt) Huge difference. Like anything else in audio you can reach diminishing returns very quickly, but the DACs in a receiver are usually where you'll see improvement as you step up in quality. At the low to mid range it's often where you'll most improvment per dollar spent. All decent amps work pretty good but a low end DAC can sound like an cassette tape. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198485) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 3:02 PM Author: Drunken sienna point Sure like an ultra cheap Chinese crap DAC that came in a $40 device on Amazon I'm sure it sucks. But if you have a $500 receiver that thing has the exact same chip in it as a $2000 standalone external DAC. There are only something like 4 serious DAC chips in the world and they each have a value of about $10. So what you're paying for is essentially all the components around the DAC, all the additional crap that doesn't actually do any conversion but does... Stuff.
Glad we agree the really expensive stuff is diminishing returns. The super cheap stuff is, well, super cheap. And somewhere between 100 bucks and 1000 is pretty much the entire range of audible differences possible between units that are all using the exact same conversion chips.
I think the question ought to be between a 100, a 500, and a 1000 dollar standalone DAC can any difference be heard at all. My gut says no but I have never A/B'd this. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 3:27 PM Author: Fracture in the Maidenhead (gunneratttt) There's diminishing but measurable returns for any high end product. Can you name anything where you're seeing the same improvment dollar for dollar going from high-end to ultra-high that you see going from budget to mid-range?
This is going to turn into your SACD thread. I think your minds made up and even if someone provides data proving the difference is measurable and perceptible you'll insist it's not. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 3:49 PM Author: Drunken sienna point My mind isn't made up. I haven't A/B'd it yet. I would say based on the research it's very unlikely but not impossible. There's no way for me to decide without hearing it for myself. I saw one study that showed that respondents were literally guessing and had no idea but the experiment did not seem fully scientific so I couldn't trust it outright. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198544) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 4:14 PM Author: Fracture in the Maidenhead (gunneratttt) One of the issues with audio is that it has to do with perception, which varies dramatically, and not just good and bad, but different aspects. There is always a measurable difference, but whether and to what degree that matters is going to vary from person to person.
Think of something like color and clarity. One person can perceive color spectrum extraordinarily well but has poor clarity, and the other has a poor ability to see the color spectrum but excellent clarity. If there are two paints, one was superior color consistency and one with superior adhesion, the spectrum guy might say the consistent paint is better because the other is wavy and looks smudged. The clarity guy will think he's crazy, the color is perfectly consistent to him, but the paint with poor adhesion applies all bumpy and is covered in craters and imperfections.
Likewise, you may sit down and A/B something and think they're identical any everyone who says they hear a difference is lying. But they truly might be able to and the data could prove it. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 4:26 PM Author: Drunken sienna point That's why I phrased the question as is there a difference rather than is one better than another. The enthusiasts who buy lots of DACs claim to hear a difference. But there is also countervailing data suggesting that the differences are imperceptible and audiophiles are hallucinating (wouldn't be the first time).
Interestingly the companies who make DACs typically suggest consumers don't look at the raw data and instead say you should rely on the feel. At a certain price point the stats are all good but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a great DAC. Another major selling point is the method of conversion such as R2R. People make claims like a ladder DAC sounds better with bright speakers because it smooths out the top end.
Who knows if any of these claims are real though? There ought to be better studies on this. Some studies say for sure that no one can reliably tell the difference. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 4:36 PM Author: heady address gay wizard i think diminishing returns start earlier in dacs than almost anything for reasons mentioned above but it depends on the quality of the rest of ur systenm and what kind of listening u do. if ur investing a lot into ur system anyways and ur doing "serious listening" (lol) then u don't want a shit dac to be the bottleneck.
even as someone with a high end system i acknowledge that basic consumer audio has caught up a lot. for someone casually listening while they're cooking dinner or something a stereo pair of sonos fives goes a long way. investing a lot into a sound system probably made a big difference 50 years ago when u had to deal with the finnickiness of vinyl and technology was generally shittier, like the term "high fidelity" must have really meant something in the past in the same way "hdtv" really meant something in 2000. now u can get great clarity very easily, and u might a/b test two components against each other and decide that u like one more but if ur just listening casually u won't really be able to tell the difference.
good speakers still make a difference and a nice preamp can add a lot. if u're using a preamp i'd put $$ there first and let that color the system instead of the dac. if u're using ur dac as a preamp or just using a passive preamp in between then a nicer dac makes more sense. also dacs depreciate faster than any part of the system besides transports so there's a built in penalty to investing a ton into an amazing dac. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 4:49 PM Author: Drunken sienna point This seems pretty cr.
What DAC should I buy? I just want want to try an external DAC. I have a pretty good amplifier and speakers. My transport only has optical out, no coaxial. I'm looking at the Schiit Modi but I could be swayed to get something different. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 4:58 PM Author: heady address gay wizard out the rest of ur system (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198670) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 5:05 PM Author: Drunken sienna point No I don't want to get into the weeds I just want a DAC rec. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198682) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 5:24 PM Author: zarathustra like i said it depends on the rest of ur system, "pretty good amplifier and speakers" could mean anything depending on who ur talking to. if ur looking at schiit modi that's probably fine and honestly a good transport with a good dac is probably sufficient at that point, i wouldn't necessarily get an external dac on the notion that a separate box is necessarily better.
if ur listening on expensive focals then maybe something better but i assume ur not. denafrips is pretty good for "entry level high end" with a very liquid used market with decent prices, and imo that's as much as most people could possibly need even on a great system, again unless u're going no preamp. old version of the ares u could probably get for like $500 used. |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 6:15 PM Author: Historical American I'm honestly not that into the hobby to put that much money down. I got like two hundred bucks but if I was really crazy I'd go up to 3. I don't think it would matter to me much. Going from the integrated DAC in my transport to any external DAC is like a space age leap forward from where I am now. Not so sold that I would go all out and spend real money. Let's see how I feel after the first step. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198793) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 6:16 PM Author: The Penis I used to have like a really fucking expensive dac, and multiple pairs of audiophile headphones and all that other stuff, but then I got old and braindamaged and dull and less into music. I suppose a lot has died inside me since those days. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198796) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 6:19 PM Author: Historical American That's why I'm here to rebuild your confidence and get you out on the road. Pussy is gay, Zozo even gayer. But Art really matters, fren. Art gives people meaning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198799) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 4:38 PM Author: Lilac Boyish Giraffe Market No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198643) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 5:19 PM Author: The Penis There are legitimate technical Engineering differences between the high end ones and the mid to low. But whether that translates into perceptible difference, I'm not sure. I think the difference between $50-$500 is probably meaningful. $500 to $2000 is doubtful in terms of audible difference, but you are getting other improvements in functionality and build quality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198706) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 5:22 PM Author: Historical American A $200 DAC has lots of inputs and functionality. It's also built like a tank. Everyone agrees going from 500 to 2k is imperceptible. It's pretty much there are ultra shitty DACs and now really good ones that start at around a hundred dollars. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198711) |
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Date: October 20th, 2026 5:28 PM Author: Fracture in the Maidenhead (gunneratttt) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5914159&forum_id=2#50198720) |