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Michigan $ vs. Harvard
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:22 PM Author: Stirring Bistre Meetinghouse I asked this on another board, and someone suggested I post it here. Honest opinions: I am in at Harvard and got a little aid (I'll graduate with about 80k in debt). Michigan offered me a full ride plus a stipend. Opinions? Advice? |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:24 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone theater How important is "prestige" to you? How averse are you to being in debt and thus having more limited career options? Do you wish to work for a big law firm when you graduate? How important is it to you to be in a city? Etc.
Ask yourself these questions.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:24 PM Author: Sticky Site Ladyboy Go where you want to go. Don't let debt be a major factor in your decision. Quality of education/life should guide you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#93346) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:25 PM Author: Marvelous Disgusting Striped Hyena glad to see u made it here, I was the one who posted the link.
My advice is the same as it ws there. 80 is very little debt for law school, and HLS will be worth the extra cash. plus, youll have a great experience there. |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 12:21 AM Author: aromatic whorehouse Dude, are you nuts. Take the money and run unless you want to be a Supreme Court Justice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#100933) |
Date: April 5th, 2004 12:40 PM Author: Stirring Bistre Meetinghouse Wow, active board. I'm not sure exactly what I want to do. I'm actually going to start off planning not to go to a huge firm, but I'm not ruling it out. I have no idea what it's like to work in different sized firms. From the outset, it seems that I would be willing to take a pay cut to work at a medium sized firm, or one where I could actually be a lawyer, but like I said, I'm trying not to rule anything out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#93566) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:46 PM Author: Irradiated principal's office Have you visited either place? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#93644) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:50 PM Author: Stirring Bistre Meetinghouse I've visited both. Loved both.
Let me be honest. This may sound pretentious and immature; I am leaning toward Harvard because...well, it's Harvard. If I would be "special" at Michigan (that is, IF I do well), that's great... but I'm afraid there would be this voice "I could have gone to Harvard". In the end, I think I'll choose it because of the name. Don't get me wrong, I also like the area, HLS's resources, at least some of the students etc.
Who knows? I might be a mediocre student. And, although I don't plan on it, I'd rather be mediocre at Harvard than at Michigan. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:51 PM Author: Marvelous Disgusting Striped Hyena the "never regretting" issue is real. if i dont go to HLS i will always think "what if..." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#93732) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:09 PM Author: Concupiscible alpha Are you a Darrow? All I can vouch for is that if you go to Michigan, you will be in good company :) I didn't apply to Harvard, but had a similar decision with another top school, and I kind of felt the opposite way in making my decision. If I'm going to be mediocre (which no one really plans on being), I would feel guilty about doing so at Michigan because of the scholarship. However, I would feel much worse being mediocre, worried about getting a job and paying through the nose for my education.
But that's just me. Plus, I took to Michigan more than the other places I visited, and that's what it's *really* about. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:11 PM Author: spruce hairraiser garrison incel michigan is a ttt state school in decline (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#93950) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 3:20 PM Author: Concupiscible alpha Cornell will always be my #1 :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#95356) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:46 PM Author: Marvelous Disgusting Striped Hyena visit hls. I went, and fell in love with the place (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#93652) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:51 PM Author: Lilac Glittery Set Puppy GO TO HARVARD. Law is the most prestige driven profession. If you turn down harvard, i guarantee you will regret it.
My advice would be the same if you were choosing between columbia/chicago and harvard. And plus, its not as easy to get a good firm from michigan as people here say. If you are in the bottom half, it is very difficult to get a good firm.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:19 PM Author: black buck-toothed candlestick maker To show a little bit of the other side...
It goes without saying that HLS is a great school. However, I think Michigan nails HLS on quality of life. While there are certainly people there that love it, I met more than a couple people at HLS that admitted that they were there for the 'H' on the diploma. If you're a Darrow, that's quite a prestigious designation. Put it on your resume, and come to Michigan. You won't be the only one in Ann Arbor that has made this decision. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:20 PM Author: spruce hairraiser garrison incel Right and the reason a bunch of people at michigan went there was for the big M (and they couldn't get into HYSCCN, Cornell, Penn, UVA, Duke, NU, Georgetown and Berkeley)
HTH |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:22 PM Author: black buck-toothed candlestick maker If you say so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#94111) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:23 PM Author: spruce hairraiser garrison incel Your apathy doesn't make my statement less true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#94122) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:24 PM Author: house-broken menage telephone You didn't have to make that decision though did you Deeloo too?
And if you had you prolly wouldn't be freezing your ass of in AA. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:26 PM Author: black buck-toothed candlestick maker I didn't turn down Harvard, but I did turn down other schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#94168) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:32 PM Author: Stirring Bistre Meetinghouse I actually did meet a few people who did choose UM over Harvard while I was in AA. Granted, they were all Darrows. And yes, it is a Darrow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#94237) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:45 PM Author: black buck-toothed candlestick maker Congratulations!
(btw, there are non-darrows that have turned down HLS also, for various reasons.) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:48 PM Author: Tripping Property Black Woman Go to Harvard. I've read your postings on the other board and you are definitley all about prestige (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#94408) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 4:02 PM Author: maroon theater stage goyim You can't go wrong either way. I suggest you do this: Develop a spreadsheet listing every factor that is important to you in the first column. In the second column, assign a weight to each factor, demonstrating its relative importance (I tweaked my weights so that they summed to 1; this forced me to make judgments of relative importance). Make a column for each school and assign a value per school/criterion intersection. Finally, make a column for the school/criterion/weighted value intersection. Sum the weighted values and see how the options compare.
The final answer won't be nearly as important as the process behind it; the process will illuminate the factors that are most important to you, force you to research those factors at each school, and force you to compare those factors between the two schools.
I went through the same exercise for Stanford vs. full Darrow and Yale vs. full Darrow. I decided I would take the Darrow over Stanford and Yale over the Darrow. Harvard was not an option for me, but I imagine it would have been a more difficult decision.
Best of luck. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 4:27 PM Author: Stirring Bistre Meetinghouse "your definitely all about prestige"
Hmm, I guess maybe. But what makes you say that? I'm not being defensive, I just want to know what tipped you off.. maybe you see something that I don't. It might help me "find myself".
My problem is, this whole decision process has made me so confused. I started thinking I knew what I wanted to do, but whenever I said something like "I'd like to go into litigation" I'd hear "It doesn't make any money."
Then, "I'd like to go into public interest." I'd hear "You're an idealist, and I'm sure you'll decide to go to a big firm."
Fine, "I think I'd like to practice in a large firm." To which I get the response, "You'll be miserable."
What do people do anyway? I don't care about making a gazillion bucks a year. And if I did want that, I could handle working 70 hours a week to do it. Then I hear it's hard to get the best public interest jobs too (to which I do not argue).
It's this cruel dichotomy; either i'm a money-grubber or an idealist. Argh!! Maybe I don't care if I'm altruistic or materialistic. Every job has its good side and bad side. I gotta do something.
No need for a response, unless someone can provide some clarification. Or else just vent with me.
EDIT: So my plan is this: I want to work in a large firm for a few years, and not buy a new Mercedes or a huge house.. but just live quasi modestly (I come from a middle-middle class household). If I love it, I'll continue. If I hate it, I'll do something else, like work in a smaller firm. And if someone thinks that is impossible, screw 'em. It sounds desireable to me. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 5:36 PM Author: razzle-dazzle fanboi Subject: same decision, same conclusion I was facing this exact same decision (full Darrow at Michigan vs. little-to-no $$ at Harvard), and I chose Harvard. I actually DIDN'T like Michigan that much, even though I wanted SO BADLY to like it because it would have been great to graduate with no debt. I feel like you can't go wrong with Harvard, though, because if you aren't making enough money to pay back your debt (i.e. you're in the public sector), LIPP will cover you, and if you are, then you're bling blinging anyway, so it ultimately doesn't matter. I have felt 100,000 times better when I wake up in the morning since making this decision and sending my deposit in.
I think your plan sounds reasonable and I look forward to seeing you at H-vard in the fall. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 6:00 PM Author: Stirring Bistre Meetinghouse This helps me. I've met people at both schools say "You should definitely go here!" I think it all depends on the KIND of person you are, that's why they end up there. The guy at UM said he chose Michigan over Harvard without even thinking.. but it fit HIM better.. and I'm about 99% sure that was the right decision for him. I think I'm a Harvard guy... Ann Arbor would get on my nerves after awhile...although it is a great place.
I'm not totally confident about LIPP. But then again, I don't care if I have a Mercedes....as long as I can get by. So, I think I'll come to the same conclusion you have.
By the way are you a current 1L or incoming? |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 6:12 PM Author: razzle-dazzle fanboi incoming.
i don't know exactly what the michigan or harvard "kind" is, per se, (other than what i've heard about harvard students being asses and michigan students being laid back), but i get what you're saying. what bugged me about michigan was the whole being nice to each other ethos -- which even pervaded the classroom -- it's not that i'm not a nice person and i don't like a congenial/collegial environment, but i definitely think that there's a time and place for it, and in the classroom is not the place to close oneself off to intense debate for fear of hurting someone's feelings. i'm sure this is highly controversial and will start a flame war, so let me add the disclaimer that this is just my IMPRESSION from what i observed and i could be TOTALLY wrong.
it's not that i didn't like michigan, it's that i didn't like it ENOUGH. ann arbor was cool, and i had a great time there, (they have a place called "sake bombs depot" that only sells sake, sapporo, and sushi! hottt!), although i think 3 years could get a bit taxing. also, the library horrified me, and libraries are extremely important to me.
listen -- i'm fairly sure that harvard was the right choice for me (we'll see if i'm still saying that come next september when i get skewered by professor warren in contracts). i think that the resources that will be available to me coming out of harvard and during my time there are invaluable, as is the network and the name and even the "we're harvard, muf**kas" ethos. i think that's the type of person i'd like to be, whether it's false bravado or not. and ultimately, just as you said, i didn't want to wake up one morning next year or 10 years from now and think "dammit, i could have gone to harvard!"
if it's helpful at all to talk about it with someone who is going through the exact same thing, (although ultimately it's only you who can make the decision, no matter how much good or bad advice you get), i'll email you my contact information. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 6:46 PM Author: Pontificating space What horrified you 'bout the libary? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#97612) |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 12:10 AM Author: razzle-dazzle fanboi It was like Ronald McDonald's playland, but in purple, dark green, and red velour, gone horrible wrong. And it was like 1960's prison-inspired furniture. And -- this is a big one -- it was underground (what the f?). The reading room was really pretty, though. I guess I'm an aesthetic snob, but I really just couldn't deal with it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#100815) |
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Date: April 21st, 2004 5:40 PM Author: Ebony orchestra pit weed whacker Bumpity bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#256164) |
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Date: July 16th, 2004 1:40 AM Author: Mahogany Nursing Home Dog Poop Subject: bump ... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6310&forum_id=2#975719) |