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Watched 1st Ep Of Ken Burns Vietnam
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Date: January 4th, 2018 5:30 PM Author: Godawful Becky it was a good historical primer on the lead up to the war. lots of shit i didnt know much about -- HCM's early years, formation of viet min, the french occupation, geneva accords, founding of south vietnam.
that's the stuff i didnt really know. not sure i'm looking forward to 9 eps about the details of the us war itself and endless vids of shitlib hippies protesting and sad stories of troops dying. i kinda know that part already. still worth watching? |
Date: January 4th, 2018 5:39 PM Author: onyx twinkling uncleanness Weird how lefties adore JFK since he was basically the George Bush of his day (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082100) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 5:40 PM Author: Godawful Becky cr. though the world would be a better place if leading us shitlibs were jfk types not maxine waters and liz warren (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082108) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 5:45 PM Author: at-the-ready office i prefer the series "battlefield: vietnam." it was more facts-oriented and excised all the long boring interviews. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082138) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 5:48 PM Author: Godawful Becky that's old right?
facts about what specifically? beyond the big picture, are the vietnam war battle details that interesting? |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 6:06 PM Author: Godawful Becky we watched ep 2 last nite.
w/o hindsight, were jfk and mcnamara that wrong about the domino theory? the execution in VN was obviously bad, but seems like the intention of stopping communism wasnt all bad at the time. |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:33 PM Author: cyan hideous space Noam Chomsky of all people has claimed that the domino theory worked: after other countries in the region (e.g. Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia) saw how badly we wrecked Vietnam they stomped out their communist movements with the quickness. Cambodia went communist but that were aligned with China, not the USSR, and by that time Nixon had already pivoted to China. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141256) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:36 PM Author: Godawful Becky what's the counterargument to this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141290) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: vigorous masturbator plaza Its a silly fear to think that proximity matters more than culture and unique economic and political situations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141315) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:51 PM Author: Godawful Becky this seems kinda dumb. why would vietnam-laos-cambodia be any more likely to fall into communism than the rest of se asia? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141434) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 6:08 PM Author: dashing brindle mexican liquid oxygen Trent Reznor soundtrack (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090385) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 6:11 PM Author: Hairless native stock car https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oU4ZbLzaqRI (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090416) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:23 PM Author: Godawful Becky watched ep 3. this series is getting a little tedious and TMI with details of every battle that i'm not gonna remember. and the interviews are excessive and repetitive.
it's still pretty good. but i think each ep could have been an hour not 90 minutes |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:27 PM Author: shivering odious halford LOL @ Koch brothers propaganda (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141187) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:28 PM Author: Godawful Becky ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141188) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:28 PM Author: shivering odious halford Koch brothers paid for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141196) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:29 PM Author: Godawful Becky it's pretty anti-war. why would the koch brothers have wanted to pay for an anti-war movie? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141205) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:34 PM Author: cyan hideous space It's very anti-hippie. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141268) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:35 PM Author: Godawful Becky it's very anti-war / anti-military establishment though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141281) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: Yellow Chad Pistol Have you read about how the series is being received in Vietnam? Apparently people there are pissed off that their government 1) covered up atrocities by the communists, and 2) obscured statistics about the death toll in order to promote the idea that the war was worth fighting. As dumb as the war may have been for America, it was a much bigger mistake for Vietnam to not dump the USSR and follow Thailand and South Korea's example. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141325) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:52 PM Author: Godawful Becky no i havent. link?
explain 2. even if they did obscure stats, the fact that they won kinda vindicates the idea that the war was worth fighting. |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:55 PM Author: Yellow Chad Pistol Looking for the link, but can you understand that winning for the sake of winning is not worth 3 million dead plus decades of brutal poverty and starvation? Vietnamese today are busting their asses trying to get caught up with the rest of the developed world. They want nothing to do with communism. "Victory" brought them nothing but misery. There is even talk of letting the US Navy use their port facilities now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141484) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:58 PM Author: Godawful Becky my personal take is that gooks never even wanted communism. they just wanted whitey out of their country. i do think it's alpha that they were able to stand up to both the french and the americans and get their own country. so to me, it's more than winning just to win. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141505) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 3:10 PM Author: Yellow Chad Pistol Here's the only link I could find:
There was a better article I saw but I'm still looking for it.
Anyway yes, they were primarily fighting whitey. But bear in mind that Vietnamese are just as susceptible as anyone to irrational jingoism, xenophobia and paranoia. Appeals to patriotism only go so far after 30 years of starvation and suffering. Vietnamese today seem more interested in making a quick buck and going to the mall than resisting western imperialism. There was always a big divide between North and South Vietnam even before the French arrived, and South Vietnam under the French was more prosperous and developed. Over time the South Vietnamese attitude has become dominant, and now Hanoi seems fully on board with their way of thinking even though official propaganda still lauds ho chi minh as a demigod. |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 3:13 PM Author: Godawful Becky why was the north more of a shithole even before colonialism? werent the north more in the sinosphere and more educated and the southerners more of an ethnic mishmash?
now, vietnam is just becoming another GC pawn |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: vigorous masturbator plaza I think it’s just really anti-The Vietnam war as a thing. No one comes out clean and that’s why KB is so good. He just presents all the facts, places them in the actual context, and personally doesn’t care about which side was right because he is a historian. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141335) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:38 PM Author: Yellow Chad Pistol It challenges conventional wisdom on a number of counts and promotes the view that we had the gooks by the balls after the tet offensive but that domestic politics held us back. It places blame for the political reaction primarily on the Johnson administration for perpetually lying about how well the war was going, so that any setback challenged the official narrative and made Americans distrust any truthful reporting of American successes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141302) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: Godawful Becky hasnt that always been the previous conventional wisdom -- that we lost the war because we lost the american people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141314) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: shivering odious halford We lost the war because the enemy defeated us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141327) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:42 PM Author: Yellow Chad Pistol Not at all. Many people believe there's really no such thing as an effective counter-insurgency against an enemy who knows the terrain. They think the gooks just had the upper hand militarily. The documentary points out that our soldiers were just as badass as the guys who fought in WW2 and that gook losses were more significant than most people believe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141341) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:54 PM Author: Godawful Becky i see.
i'm not far enough along, but were the draftees who didnt volunteer as badass as the volunteers who went early on? |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:59 PM Author: Yellow Chad Pistol According to the documentary volunteers and draftees fought heroically early on. After Nixon announced that we were withdrawing they refused to fight and started fragging commanders who ordered them to do foot patrols in the jungle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141519) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:39 PM Author: shivering odious halford https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/vietnam-war-ken-burns-us-imperialism (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141309) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 5:00 PM Author: Multi-colored Angry Wrinkle Partner Nice. Never mentioned Korea once. That takes some effort. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35142451) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:38 PM Author: vigorous masturbator plaza It’s incredible. I’ve watched most of it twice and will watch again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141307) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:55 PM Author: dashing brindle mexican liquid oxygen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141483) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 4:00 PM Author: haunting university love of her life American and western conceptions of war were misinformed and I thought that was the takeaway from the documentary. Americans thought you could fight another country's civil war without accounting for the popular will of the people. They thought winning was all about body count. They let ideology govern policy while ignoring practical consideration. There's also no doubt notions of racial and cultural superiority played a role. I think after Vietnam and Korea, Westerners were done fucking with Asians and decided to stick to picking on Arabs and Latin/South Americans.
The irony today is that Vietnam is closer to the US than it is to China. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:43 PM Author: Godawful Becky we're 7 eps in. this got MUCH better and is now 180. first 2-3 eps were a little slow/dull. the action really stepped up and the interviewees are much more compelling and the footage is much better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245178) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 2:01 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle Garrison Cuckold Unforunately for the south Vietnamamese (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245357) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 2:04 PM Author: Godawful Becky ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245387) |