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Stressed Out 0L: taking advice
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 10:45 AM Author: henna lascivious library cuckoldry 0L bound for one of Chicago/CLS in the fall. Stressed b/c I never had to compete with my peers on curved classes while paying sticker in the middle of ITE. Taking wisdom and advice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20816841) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:52 PM Author: spruce razzle-dazzle keepsake machete bro, seriously, the first order of business is to just stop thinking about the peers and focus on your own efforts. second order of business, enjoy our last summer of freedom. finally, third order of business is to find a reasonable alternative to biglaw and work to attain it right off the bat (i highly recommend joining ROTC, which you can as a 1L; you only have a reserve commitment and thus don't have to do JAG, but you can if you want to). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817204) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 2:18 PM Author: Racy Violent Regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817559) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 2:37 PM Author: vibrant gaping can u explain this ROTC option a little more bro? didn't even know u could do it in ls (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817706) |
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Date: June 4th, 2012 3:41 PM Author: spruce razzle-dazzle keepsake machete Fairly simple. As a 1L, you can enroll in ROTC and get accepted into a Reserve officer track (note: not JAG, line officer). You'll get a stipend while in school and you'll have a Reserve commitment after graduation--1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year. If you want JAG, you can apply to the JAG Reserve separately, or you can even apply JAG Active Duty after graduation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20823893) |
Date: June 3rd, 2012 11:21 AM Author: gay menage mad cow disease Estimated debt? Isn't that about 225k these days?
Yeah, I'd be nervous. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 11:21 AM Author: Glittery erotic gas station reading party (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20816904) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 11:45 AM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi Does CLS exaggerate the COL? They put total living expenses at 20.5k. for 9 months. http://www.law.columbia.edu/current_student/financial_aid/cost_billing
They put rent/utilities at 1300/month, for a total of 11.7k. Couldn't you significantly reduce that if you did roommate + 1-hour one-way commute?
They put board at 5k. Board = food, right? But wtf are you doing spending 140/week on food?
Personal is 3.7k. Even including transportation, internet, phone, and other amenities I don't think it wouldn't come to that much. Not for just 9 months.
How much could you save if you lived frugally? I mean SUPER frugal. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:06 PM Author: marvelous cobalt sneaky criminal Super frugal? You don't have time as a 1L to fucking clip coupons and make your own soap, bro. The way I've seen the average law student behave with money (very poorly, lawyers have no concept of value), $20.5k is actually underselling the COL, especially in NY. And the 3 months of summer should be factored in.
OP should DROP THE FUCK OUT NOW. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 11:34 AM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi What were your numbers?
Are you straight from UG?
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 11:43 AM Author: henna lascivious library cuckoldry no worked in a marketing/social media start up for 2 years after ugrad. Yea and total debt will be ~240k (with SA $$ - if I get biglaw) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20816979) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 11:44 AM Author: Talented meetinghouse foreskin yes and what are your numbers? what is your race? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20816981) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:29 PM Author: learning disabled diverse abode crotch lol op dodged this question. he's a dumb who got lucky and got into cls that's why he's worried (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817120) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:56 PM Author: bright metal crackhouse Yep, "marketing/social media" mouthbreather who graduated with a shit degree in Communications from Podunk State. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817211) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:45 PM Author: henna lascivious library cuckoldry white male. 3.9/172 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817182) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:11 PM Author: marvelous cobalt sneaky criminal you are fucking dumb dude. have you actually run the numbers on this? go to paycheckcity.com and see your takehome pay in NYC on biglaw. then go to a student loan calculator and realize your minimums will be almost 3k/mo for loans. then take 2k/mo for rent in a shit hole 1bdrm in the UES. that's instantly 5k out of your monthly takehome with 2-3k leftover for the rest of your expenses and having a life. you will feel poor, because you will be poor. you will be working 60-80hrs a week, hating your life, to have nothing left over. that's *IF* you get biglaw.
keep in mind your OCI will be in Fall 2013. keep in mind we are quite possibly in a repeat of the summer of 2008 economy right now. keep in mind that the economy can quite easily implode in a few months just as you're starting LS. last time this happened? economy implodes Sept. 2008, when class of 2011 was in 1L. Class of 2011 was probably the most fucked law school class in history. biglaw is NOT a given.
$240k at 7% interest. how dumb are you? you can't find a better use for $240k than a fucking law degree ITE? |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:25 PM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi 1.) The investment is ~165k. Everyone is paying residency fees. You can count the interest from residency fee debt, though.
2.) ~75-80% of CLS got biglaw this year.
3.) You will not be even close to poor on 24-36k per year take-home after-rent. Also, take-home will increase every year.
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:47 PM Author: light exhilarant theater Don't forget the three years of salary and advancement you give up by going to law school. Is three years of school plus working 70 hour weeks in a shitty job really worth taking home 36K a year? How fucking stupid are you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817187) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:03 PM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi If you pay 40k on loans first-year, you have 60k take-home total. It will increase every year. 36k is after rent for residence.
Yes, there is the opportunity cost of three years lost wages + debt to get biglaw. The only way to avoid that and make similar comp would be high-end finance (banking/consulting) or high-end STEM gigs. If those are not an option, (or if you are simply willing to sacrifice them because you want to practice law), then the opportunity cost is worth it.
In all, I'd say a three years of school + loans is worth a ~30-35 year post-biglaw career making comp that would only be rivaled by medicine, finance, or elite STEM. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 2:28 PM Author: light exhilarant theater Paying off 40K a year will mean only ~25K in principal is paid. Enjoy paying $3,333 a month for the next 7 years just to get rid of your student loans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817630) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 2:35 PM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi I only stated 40k to loans because that's what the poster I originally responded to postulated. By all means spend more; get that shit out of the way asap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817689) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:47 PM Author: vermilion federal quadroon "2.) ~75-80% of CLS got biglaw this year."
bullshit |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:09 PM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi No... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817249) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:11 PM Author: twisted exciting indian lodge travel guidebook remember law schools lie. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817256) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 2:16 PM Author: gold razzmatazz field fanboi Yes but the raw stats don't (assuming you know how to read them).
http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/home.aspx
E.g. look for CLS C/O 2011, the worst year on record. Then biglaw + clerkship hiring was ~70%. It's better this year, although not significantly.
Confirmed by TLS. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415 |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:45 PM Author: light exhilarant theater Dude, you should not go to law school. Here is how this will go down. Total debt of 240K after school. You will probably be able to get biglaw out of CLS or Chicago, but your take home pay will still only be ~100K a year. After living expenses and other costs you might be able to pay down ~65K a year. Unfortunately your loans will be raping you with interest. Best case scenario is you live frugally for 4 years and pay off all of your loans. Congratulations, you have now spent 7 years putting up with law school and one of the shittiest jobs on the planet and have exactly no money to show for it. You will desperately want to leave your job, but won't really want to settle for something that doesn't have a great salary, because doing so would be admitting you wave wasted the best years of your life for nothing. So you will waste even more time (assuming you haven't been fired yet) to hopefully save a few thousands and justify your decision to go to law school. Fuck becoming a lawyer man, if you are smart just work your way up through a company - financially you will do much better and the job won't make you contemplate suicide. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817180) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:51 PM Author: twisted exciting indian lodge travel guidebook he might actually like it though. some people do like their jobs and the law (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817200) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:53 PM Author: Zippy locale love of her life lol @ these insufferable faggots (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817205) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:59 PM Author: light exhilarant theater Ok, so he needs to ask himself "I am a boring douchebag who enjoys being bitched around by business people and arguing over whether to use 'shall' instead of 'will'"? If the answer is yes then by all means law school is the way to go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817218) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:03 PM Author: twisted exciting indian lodge travel guidebook i don't think it's that bad. maybe he will hate it if this board is any indication but i don't think it is THAT rare to enjoy being a lawyer and i don't think you have to be a total tool either
that said, loans suck and would probably impact your job experience |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:05 PM Author: Aromatic avocado home haunted graveyard What are you basing your impression on young man? Your real world experience with lawyer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817238) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:06 PM Author: twisted exciting indian lodge travel guidebook yah i actually really like my job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817240) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:07 PM Author: Aromatic avocado home haunted graveyard Really? How long have you been practicing and what do you practice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817246) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:09 PM Author: twisted exciting indian lodge travel guidebook i am not going to say the specific practice area. lit
c/o 2011 |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:12 PM Author: Aromatic avocado home haunted graveyard Whatever man. Give me a call in 2014. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817257) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:28 PM Author: twisted exciting indian lodge travel guidebook rly? the more senior people at my firm seem pretty happy too
and it's not like the alternatives are so great. i know people who have jobs straight out of undergrad and their jobs do not bring them any satisfaction, they get shit shit pay, they're bored, etc. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:35 PM Author: Amber Doctorate Brethren Yeah, this is the truth.
As a med student, you sometimes hear this sort of kvetching and "grass is greener" thinking from doctors too (albeit not nearly as frequently as with lawyers, it seems). The common denominator, however, is that nobody in either of these professions seems to realize that most "straight from college" jobs are absolute shit. They pay practically nothing, provide little stimulation or satisfaction, no opportunity for advancement, etc. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:08 PM Author: Hairless Brindle Jewess Legal Warrant I recommend choosing an attainable backup to biglaw and gunning for it from day one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817049) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:10 PM Author: Zippy locale love of her life man if you're stressed out now maybe you should consider taking a different career path. the stress will only get worse, even if you "succeed" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817052) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 12:24 PM Author: Abnormal razzle whorehouse bbw cr imagine OP during his first final
or even worse during the bar exam |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:03 PM Author: Aromatic avocado home haunted graveyard Don't go. You won't follow this advice and will delude yourself with all sorts of reasons why the people in this thread and probably 95% of the lawyers you meet are wrong or you are exceptional, etc. You might even go so far as to convince yourself that we all really like it and are trying to keep the competition down (a favorite of tls and retards everywhere). But we aren't wrong, you arent the exception and no one is worried about you taking their job. I just hope that in about seven years when you are sitting alone at the bar you shuffled into after being told to "look for other opportunities" and you are wondering how your life has been this miserable for this long that you remember this thread. Be sure to bump when you do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817233) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:10 PM Author: bipolar nowag rigor damn. I thought you liked your work brother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817252) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:16 PM Author: Aromatic avocado home haunted graveyard Where would you ever get that idea brother? To be fair, I have been doing it for far longer than I should have been, so part of it is my fault for continuing to do it. A lot of people seem to think I am good at trying cases and I have to admit that there is a certain satisfaction out of owning the fuck out of someone in court. Other than that it is a horrible fate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817269) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 1:49 PM Author: Gaped voyeur filthpig 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817437) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 2:12 PM Author: Curious lodge clown this. law sucks. dont go. lots of people just want the credential to show off, and tell themselves that if they dont like being a lawyer they can always do something else. you can't. you will get sucked into it and then realize you have spent the best years of your life grinding it out in a shitty profession. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20817536) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2012 9:36 PM Author: adventurous onyx half-breed tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1962588&forum_id=2#20820129) |