The bottom line is that race is self-identified (according to ABA policy). No law school, no state bar character&fitness review board is going to be able to penalize you for claiming URM if you don't "look" like one. If you claim URM, you have met the ABA's only criterion for establishing applicant URM status.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676300)

Think about it... it's quite possible that someone could have a very legit claim to African-American with an Italian name if their dad was italian and mother a black.

There's nothing they can "investigate"... Since there is no minimum blood % one must have to claim a certain race (I've asked this very question to the bars), you can claim any fucking thing.

In the case that you do get "asked" about it, just stick to your guns and say that "I identify with my ethnicity and I am not going to 'defend' my claim to it because the bottom line is that I self-identify". At worst, they'll think you're a dick and won't admit you. The vast majority of schools won't ask though, and instead savor over the prospect of snagging a Native American

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676390)

forget your Las Vegas schtick already, dood?

pick one: stanford/harvard philosopher or lost wages derel

which is it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7682113)

"No."

"Do I need to have a minimum ancestoral percentage to claim a certain ethnicity?"

"No, your choice is based solely on self identification"

Birth certificate doesn't matter. That isn't self identification. You can even self-id as caucasion for undergrad and STILL say that you're a URM for law school. If someone dares confront you, you just tell them that you had some change of heart. Etnicity isn't a genetic trait, it's a psychological state. Psychological states can change.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676417)

This kid is going to make a good lawyer. Nice fuckin loop hole.

What if I say i'm a gay native american. Am I an autoadmit at harvard?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676432)

But for those apps that do ask, you can fucking claim any tribe you want. If some administrator wants to try to verify your status in a tribal community-- guess what-- they can't hold that as evidence against you because this shit is SELF-identified. You're not claiming that you're identified by anyone else other than YOURSELF and therefore there is no falsification.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676457)

Someone can only be determined officially guilty of these violations insofar as it is PROVEN. The burden of proof is not on you, but rather the adcom/bar-fart skeptic.

You can't "disprove" someone's self-professed ethnicity. It may seem common sense that someone "is white", but you can't make a legitimate case that someone lied about not believing they are white ONLY because they look white.

The crazy thing about this is that a person can blatently lie their ass off, but as long as they don't openly admit they weren't sincere about identifying as URM, they cannot be proven to be a liar.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676787)

Anyone who tries to buck the system is not only making an ethicially-justifiable decision, but they are HEROS. If everyone decided they were a URM, then URM would cease to be a leg up and people would start getting judged on merit only--like it should be.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676804)

*edit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7676836)

Would you really want to risk that? Lawyers tend to be risk adverse people anyway, or else they'd be going into a field like business or the arts where the potential for a higher payoff than in law is present but the chances are lower. Why would a person like this want to make a risky decision like lying on an application?

Good luck monitoring every conversation you have with your classmates, etc., as you go through life.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677081)

Oh, do they have remote sensor lie detectors?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677089)

Seems like there would be endless potential for investigation. Good luck with a paranoid life and a craned neck looking over your shoulder.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677093)

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677124)

Even if your ridiculous hypothetical "investigation" happened and parents gave the surveyors contradictory reports about their child's "connections" to their self-identified URM ethnicity, the bottom line remains: the sole ABA standard for minority status--SELF-IDENTIFICATION-- remains met. NO JUSTIFICATION REQUIRED.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677530)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677374)

http://www.eraseracismny.org/html/whatis/race_is_not_a_scientific_term.php

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677133)

I guess they'll just have to start denying all URM claims, just to be safe no "imposters" get through.

PS: You forget about the incentive law schools have for admitting even tenuous URM applicants-- they get to add to their diversity numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of deans responded to you with a big fat "fuck you" letter for doing anything that might discourage an increased number of self-identified American Indians.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677472)

I know you can claim to have watched a lot of Clint Eastwood movies in the meantime, but it seems to be a stretch.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677136)

just check the box. its my impression that the admissions ppl won't have too much contact with ppl at most schools. for example, at my law school i couldnt even tell you who the dean of admissions was. or who was dean of what. and i don't think they had an idea who i was.

just stay out of trouble, lay low, and take your full ride as a native american at a t6 school... LOL

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7679023)

the big problem would be if a scholarship was endowed by a person... like the Chief Whatever scholarship for Native Americans at XYZ Law School. I remember in UG I had a named scholarship... endowed by some doctor who had gone to Princeton in like the 40s. I was supposed to write him a letter and thank him, etc., and I did so.

I imagine that if a native american got a named scholarship, there might be more questions asked if the person was totally white and had a last name of Smith or something.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7679092)

I have a Filipino friend with a Spanish last name who decided he was 'Latino' in college to get scholarships for Latino students. His school found out about the scam and SEVERELY reprimanded him.

His defense? 'The Phillipines were colonized by Spain just like Latin America'

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677155)

P.S. you can show that someone does not self identify with an ethnicity through a blended showing that (i) they do not belong biologically to that ethnicity, (ii) they do not have a significant famiial connection to that ethnicity and (iii) they have not formed social connections to people of that ethnicity. Also, it would be perceived as a manifest fraud if the person had no cause to show that they lived and endured the struggle identified with that particular ethnicity, and you would be an idiot to try to make that point fly past law school administration. Also, I have never met ONE person who has tried to claim that they belonged to an ethnicity because they read a lot of books, etc., about people of that ethnicity. This is because most law school applicants possess the gift of common sense. Oh, and some survival skills.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7677805)

I just fucking called LSAC, told them I was doing research on Affirmative Action, and read off your "disqualifiers" verbatim-- with the exception that I replaced "ethnicity" with "American Indian". I then asked:

"If these three things were true about an applicant, and they still self-identified as American Indian, would they be breaking any rules?"

She was initially confused, but then I clarified that the applicant would theoretically never publicly claim to lie about the self-identification. She put me on hold, and then said this (again verbatim):

"We don't have any 'race' rules. If you feel like you're a certain race for whatever reason, you can mark down that race. Does that answer your question?"

Does that answer your question, you stupid slut?

Don't believe me? Call yourself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7678758)

But I'd bet dollars to donuts that you don't have the stones to try and pull a scam like this. So what's your fucking point?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7679099)

if you have the stones, do it, and don't act like a schmuck then you're solid material for biglaw... a true self-serving asshole willing to press the letter of the law beyond common sense when it is spelled out to benefit him. and the reason they are not worried is because none of us really do have those stones to do it.

and if you have submitted race to your UG or lsac or on lsat and its not what you say on app's I do think they'd look at you suspiciously. if you worked in finance or something they'll reject you. but if you worked nonprofit and shit and called yourself a latino you'd be in. I wish I had as an italian with an anglo last name. "self-identify" is a psychological question. if you self-identify for a stupid reason besides biology or parents, your sanity, personality, and sense are subject to question, though, I suppose.

I guess wiggers or as good as in, huh?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7682284)

DNA test can be > LSAT & you don't have study.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7683572)

Anyway, I am all set to claim my new Inuit "self-identity".

Now which personal statement do you think carries more weight:

1) Living in an igloo with my dog "Makes-Good-Soup" (I think you can see how this story ends...)

2) Exploring the inner conflict of believing very strongly in animal rights, while at the same time taking great pleasure in harpooning the shit out of Narwhales.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7679074)

Becoming a big lawyer takes BALLS! If you want something you've got to TAKE IT! That philosophy has certianly worked well in my dating career (except for that one incident in Oregon, but I was 17 at the time so it is sealed... and actually, that other incident in Thailand... but a bribe took care of that... ah, Thailand...)

Anyway, I am all set to claim my new Inuit "self-identity".

Now which personal statement do you think carries more weight:

1) Living in an igloo with my dog "Makes-Good-Soup" (I think you can see how this story ends...)

2) Exploring the inner conflict of believing very strongly in animal rights, while at the same time taking great pleasure in harpooning the shit out of Narwhales.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7679126)

i think as a native american you could get a t6 with ~158 LSAT ... meaning that you're talking CLS vs Brooklyn or HLS vs U of Tennessee. stuff like that. 158's wont even get you into some tier 2 schools. and it wouldnt get you into even Fordham in NYC, nor BU in Boston, nor GWU, GMU, or American in DC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7679165)

158? maybe that has happened. they'd have to have real good grades, though, right? but is a 168/3.0 native american even a lock at Harvard/Stanford/Columbia?

if had a shitty LSAT and was looking at being locked out from tier 1, then I'd spend some time living with and identifying with minorities.... Oh wait! I already did that, year on poor indian reservation, year in asia, year in harlem. Wrote about it, but I'm far too honest to check a box. Even though I grew up being made to feel like a black just because I was a bastard Italian in a nice town.

this ABA AA policy and the clamoring to slurp minorities is really a joke. what is the benefit of a law school being ethnically diverse, anyway? I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but as long as the city and school are racially diverse and the classroom has a diverse group of personalities, geography, experiences, then you have diversity. there is no reason for there to be more than the quanititatively deserving blacks, AmerInds, etc at YHS. Poors of all races should be given a lot of credit for overcoming that... but race checked in a box is complete bull shit. especially when on basis of self-identification. every asian dude at my UG back in 2000 thought they were black... maybe thats how columbia, cal and stanford got so yellow?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=586831&forum_id=2#7682381)