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Blizzard employees revolt over not receiving >10% pay raises (ink)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/blizzard-...
Comical greedy clown mediation
  08/11/20
One employee wrote that they had to skip meals to pay rent a...
Startled Half-breed Antidepressant Drug
  08/11/20
another scammed reddit for free pizza
Olive Infuriating Spot Queen Of The Night
  08/11/20
...
charismatic mad-dog skullcap boltzmann
  08/11/20
...
laughsome umber orchestra pit
  08/11/20
Sounds like they have lavish lifestyles
Comical greedy clown mediation
  08/11/20
*TMF adding cost of shitty free coffee to their total HHI* *...
dark aromatic background story
  08/11/20
lol you beat me to the "all in" joke
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
...
180 Halford Psychic
  08/11/20
...
Henna kitty cat messiness
  08/11/20
I been following this story (i'm a big MMO-mo though I don't...
heady translucent theatre
  08/11/20
Lmfao at in game membership time being an employment perk jf...
Violet wonderful range
  08/11/20
One guy posted that he has 25 years of WoW subscription. T...
heady translucent theatre
  08/11/20
...
Violet wonderful range
  08/11/20
great link; not one salary aside from the ceo's listed in th...
Soul-stirring Hideous Goal In Life
  08/11/20
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/119RI3oS9XNOjq2X8VLpU...
Alcoholic Galvanic Goyim Personal Credit Line
  08/11/20
is this a joke? I make more than a Senior Project Manager at...
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
This is in Austin too. I didn't realize pay was relatively l...
Comical greedy clown mediation
  08/11/20
I thought Blizzard was in Irvine
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
nevermind, i see now that there's diff office locations on t...
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
Why can't I fucking sort this piece of shit table? Whoever m...
Razzmatazz azure casino wrinkle
  08/11/20
They should be boosting the salaries a bit because the talen...
irradiated opaque university immigrant
  08/11/20
Serves them right for ruining WoW.
Titillating Ape
  08/11/20
...
Odious Misunderstood Masturbator Whorehouse
  08/11/20
Lol.
Splenetic dashing mexican
  08/11/20
why do they think they're entitled to more pay? Japanese gam...
lime vibrant lettuce bbw
  08/11/20
(bobby kotick)
Olive Infuriating Spot Queen Of The Night
  08/11/20
(Kagemasa Kozuki)
primrose piazza
  08/11/20
...
Splenetic dashing mexican
  08/11/20
Pay raise for what? Do they even make games anymore? Whe...
Aggressive Boiling Water
  08/11/20
Tbf, Diablo 4 is in production
Comical greedy clown mediation
  08/11/20
Ugh... diablo is their worst. Just click click click click
Aggressive Boiling Water
  08/11/20
WHAT, U DON'T HAVE PHONES?!?1
primrose piazza
  08/11/20
No, diablo 4 is a legit PC game
Comical greedy clown mediation
  08/11/20
oh dang i was hoping they do more shitty mobile games dia...
primrose piazza
  08/11/20
35k to be a GM in Austin. Good or bad if you're just some r...
Big overrated site selfie
  08/11/20
You can make more bartending on 6th street.
Razzmatazz azure casino wrinkle
  08/11/20
yeah but can u be fat and ugly and feel superior to other ne...
primrose piazza
  08/11/20
...
Splenetic dashing mexican
  08/11/20
whats a GM?
Supple stage internal respiration
  08/11/20
game master, you basically handle customer support in game
Cracking step-uncle's house
  08/12/20
everyone knows gaming has the worst work-life balance and lo...
mahogany school
  08/11/20
Bobby Kotick couldn't tell you how to reload in Warzone, but...
Internet-worthy mother
  08/11/20
imagine if games studios could attract the talent that goes ...
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
It's because videogames are art.
Supple stage internal respiration
  08/11/20
...
puce chapel
  08/11/20
...
irradiated opaque university immigrant
  08/12/20
Because you can already "dominate the gaming industry&q...
Internet-worthy mother
  08/11/20
that was my point though, if you get the talent and pay them...
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
Okay, you risk billions on "something truly unique and ...
Internet-worthy mother
  08/11/20
Apple didn't get where they are by aping the competition, at...
poppy frisky milk volcanic crater
  08/11/20
Gaming is hits driven and it’s hard if not impossible ...
Territorial Box Office
  08/12/20
Nerds: video games::alpha law students:DA offices::young shr...
Marvelous Hunting Ground Marketing Idea
  08/11/20
how has this model of giving millions to CEOs and scraps to ...
Spectacular Coldplay Fan Center
  08/11/20
"For the quarter ended June 30, 2020, Activision Blizza...
Internet-worthy mother
  08/11/20
seems like they cash hoard more than Amazon The CEO of ev...
Spectacular Coldplay Fan Center
  08/11/20
CEOs are STRATEGIC THINKERS aka merge and divest every few y...
soggy fear-inspiring regret
  08/12/20
I don't see what the problem is. The large "discrepanci...
Insanely Creepy Indian Lodge
  08/11/20
It's because video games are art.
Supple stage internal respiration
  08/11/20
It's widely known in the industry that game companies pay ab...
Dead apoplectic hall factory reset button
  08/12/20
The Engineering involved in a video game seems more "re...
Insanely Creepy Indian Lodge
  08/12/20
lol u know jack shit about software engineering
primrose piazza
  08/12/20
I knew a game designer 15 years ago and he was pretty smart ...
soggy fear-inspiring regret
  08/12/20
again u know jack shit about software engineering i know ...
primrose piazza
  08/12/20
Thought this was about Dairy Queen.
talented dingle berry
  08/12/20


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:16 PM
Author: Comical greedy clown mediation

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/blizzard-workers-share-salaries-in-revolt-over-wage-disparities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739531)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:24 PM
Author: Startled Half-breed Antidepressant Drug

One employee wrote that they had to skip meals to pay rent and that they used the company’s free coffee as an appetite suppressant. Another said they would only eat oatmeal and bail on team lunches because they couldn’t afford to buy food at the company cafeteria.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739621)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:25 PM
Author: Olive Infuriating Spot Queen Of The Night

another scammed reddit for free pizza

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739630)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:27 PM
Author: charismatic mad-dog skullcap boltzmann



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739647)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:55 PM
Author: laughsome umber orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740016)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:25 PM
Author: Comical greedy clown mediation

Sounds like they have lavish lifestyles

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739633)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:39 PM
Author: dark aromatic background story

*TMF adding cost of shitty free coffee to their total HHI* *frowns when he realizes they make more than him*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739836)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:44 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

lol you beat me to the "all in" joke

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739890)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:54 PM
Author: 180 Halford Psychic



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740007)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 11:43 PM
Author: Henna kitty cat messiness



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742214)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:30 PM
Author: heady translucent theatre

I been following this story (i'm a big MMO-mo though I don't play WoW) and they all posted their salaries and it honestly didn't seem that bad to me. There's definitely some shittiness with Blizzard offering perks like in-game membership time in lieu of actual bonuses though, that part is kind of funny. Reminds me of the old song 16 Tons.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739707)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:24 PM
Author: Violet wonderful range

Lmfao at in game membership time being an employment perk jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740276)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:20 PM
Author: heady translucent theatre

One guy posted that he has 25 years of WoW subscription. That's kind of hilarious tbh.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740597)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 7:56 PM
Author: Violet wonderful range



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40741063)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:31 PM
Author: Soul-stirring Hideous Goal In Life

great link; not one salary aside from the ceo's listed in the "entire" article.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739715)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:32 PM
Author: Alcoholic Galvanic Goyim Personal Credit Line

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/119RI3oS9XNOjq2X8VLpUOMpyarcMsNzid-nA1OqbXkA/htmlview?pru=AAABc9xm048*IoWzMOeJOOiSRFAKtwbe_g

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739738)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:35 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

is this a joke? I make more than a Senior Project Manager at Blizzard and I'm only a lowly engineer at a startup.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739789)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:36 PM
Author: Comical greedy clown mediation

This is in Austin too. I didn't realize pay was relatively low there

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739800)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:38 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

I thought Blizzard was in Irvine

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739827)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:40 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

nevermind, i see now that there's diff office locations on the sheet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739848)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:03 PM
Author: Razzmatazz azure casino wrinkle

Why can't I fucking sort this piece of shit table? Whoever made this deserves to be fired for failing at basic excel skills. I was making pivot tables in 8th fucking grade.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740095)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:33 PM
Author: irradiated opaque university immigrant

They should be boosting the salaries a bit because the talent leaving is a big issue - they should embrace the tech company catered free food thing IMO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739756)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:37 PM
Author: Titillating Ape

Serves them right for ruining WoW.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739805)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:43 PM
Author: Odious Misunderstood Masturbator Whorehouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739875)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:01 PM
Author: Splenetic dashing mexican

Lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740483)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:39 PM
Author: lime vibrant lettuce bbw

why do they think they're entitled to more pay? Japanese game developers don't get paid a whole lot of money and they make better games on average than Blizzard. this just seems like a lot of entitled BS to me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739838)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:45 PM
Author: Olive Infuriating Spot Queen Of The Night

(bobby kotick)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40739899)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:53 PM
Author: primrose piazza

(Kagemasa Kozuki)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740003)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:01 PM
Author: Splenetic dashing mexican



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740488)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:56 PM
Author: Aggressive Boiling Water

Pay raise for what? Do they even make games anymore?

Where’s Starcraft Ghost? Warcraft 4? Starcraft 3?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740023)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:56 PM
Author: Comical greedy clown mediation

Tbf, Diablo 4 is in production

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740028)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 4:57 PM
Author: Aggressive Boiling Water

Ugh... diablo is their worst. Just click click click click

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740033)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:00 PM
Author: primrose piazza

WHAT, U DON'T HAVE PHONES?!?1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740064)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:06 PM
Author: Comical greedy clown mediation

No, diablo 4 is a legit PC game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740118)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:08 PM
Author: primrose piazza

oh dang i was hoping they do more shitty mobile games

diablo franchise died with diablo 3.

they should make a warcraft 4 RTS game. or fix hearthstone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740134)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:04 PM
Author: Big overrated site selfie

35k to be a GM in Austin. Good or bad if you're just some random high school grad?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740104)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:06 PM
Author: Razzmatazz azure casino wrinkle

You can make more bartending on 6th street.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740125)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:09 PM
Author: primrose piazza

yeah but can u be fat and ugly and feel superior to other nerds in a virtual world on 6th street?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740142)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:01 PM
Author: Splenetic dashing mexican



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740489)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:23 PM
Author: Supple stage internal respiration

whats a GM?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740260)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:12 AM
Author: Cracking step-uncle's house

game master, you basically handle customer support in game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742354)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:11 PM
Author: mahogany school

everyone knows gaming has the worst work-life balance and lowest pay per hour in the software industry. the execs take advantage of loser nerds who aren't willing to stand up for themselves by forcing long hours, ridiculously tight deadlines, and low pay on them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740162)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:13 PM
Author: Internet-worthy mother

Bobby Kotick couldn't tell you how to reload in Warzone, but he can tell you how to fire hundreds of employees after a year that saw record profits. That's why he makes $40M and the monkeys churning out the microtransactions live off break room coffee.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740169)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:21 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

imagine if games studios could attract the talent that goes to Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. I don't know why they haven't tried to do this and dominate the gaming industry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740238)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:24 PM
Author: Supple stage internal respiration

It's because videogames are art.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740274)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:25 PM
Author: puce chapel



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740278)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:36 AM
Author: irradiated opaque university immigrant



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742424)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:40 PM
Author: Internet-worthy mother

Because you can already "dominate the gaming industry" paying poverty-level wages to nerds who will grind themselves to death for the privilege of making your product?

Most games being made today are lowest-common-denominator slop stuffed to the gills with microtransactions. You don't need Google engineers making $300k to churn out a Warzone battle pass every 60 days or update the roster in the next FIFA game.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740368)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:43 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

that was my point though, if you get the talent and pay them well maybe they can make something truly unique and forward-thinking and make you obscene amounts of ca$h

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740387)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:48 PM
Author: Internet-worthy mother

Okay, you risk billions on "something truly unique and forward thinking." Meanwhile, Activision will print billions selling digital hats and gun skins to the mass market of retards willing to buy them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740411)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:51 PM
Author: poppy frisky milk volcanic crater

Apple didn't get where they are by aping the competition, at least not directly. it's a risk, yeah, just surprised no one has pounced on it yet. it's not like there's a shortage of money in the games industry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740436)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:34 PM
Author: Territorial Box Office

Gaming is hits driven and it’s hard if not impossible to algorithmically determine what’s is a hit (look at Netflix). cos like google succeed from being really good at math and tech, they are autists who don’t have what it takes to make engaging content

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744384)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:26 PM
Author: Marvelous Hunting Ground Marketing Idea

Nerds: video games::alpha law students:DA offices::young shrews:PR

Jobs that are desirable type work to certain people so they can get away with paying absolute shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740630)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:41 PM
Author: Spectacular Coldplay Fan Center

how has this model of giving millions to CEOs and scraps to employees been sustainable?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740376)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:44 PM
Author: Internet-worthy mother

"For the quarter ended June 30, 2020, Activision Blizzard’s net revenues presented in accordance with GAAP were $1.93 billion, as compared with $1.40 billion for the second quarter of 2019. GAAP net revenues from digital channels were $1.59 billion, as compared with $1.09 billion for the second quarter of 2019. GAAP operating margin was 39%."

https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-details/activision-blizzard-announces-record-second-quarter-2020

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740395)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 5:46 PM
Author: Spectacular Coldplay Fan Center

seems like they cash hoard more than Amazon

The CEO of every corporation is essentially a slush fund golem socking away wealth for the future

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740405)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:44 PM
Author: soggy fear-inspiring regret

CEOs are STRATEGIC THINKERS aka merge and divest every few years to take advantage of synergies or focus on core competencies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744483)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 6:20 PM
Author: Insanely Creepy Indian Lodge

I don't see what the problem is. The large "discrepancies" I am seeing are between Engineers making ~$150k and Losers averaging like $46,600. The moral of the story is to have a Clique, e.g. to be a Nerd and Engineer things. The Losers on the staff probably grew up playing video games passively like idiots whereas the Nerds were coding games in BASIC at age 7.

Sure, some of the Engineers make $110k and some make $160k but for all I know the latter is experienced in coding WoW expansions and the former is a n00b or Peter from office space.

Also a 10% average raise would just average out to 20% for Nerds and 0% for Losers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40740598)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 11th, 2020 7:51 PM
Author: Supple stage internal respiration

It's because video games are art.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40741035)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:01 AM
Author: Dead apoplectic hall factory reset button

It's widely known in the industry that game companies pay absolute shit. Go work for a real tech company if you want to make any money.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40742323)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 10:34 AM
Author: Insanely Creepy Indian Lodge

The Engineering involved in a video game seems more "real" than NFLX or a shitty website like AMZN or facebook. Physics and Game Engines and shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40743690)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:26 PM
Author: primrose piazza

lol u know jack shit about software engineering

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744320)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:45 PM
Author: soggy fear-inspiring regret

I knew a game designer 15 years ago and he was pretty smart and took a lot of grad-level comp sci and math

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744498)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 12:52 PM
Author: primrose piazza

again u know jack shit about software engineering

i know a smart PHD quant friend working at lowe's. doesn't mean they need to boost lowe's salaries to google/netflix levels.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40744540)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 12th, 2020 11:19 AM
Author: talented dingle berry

Thought this was about Dairy Queen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4601694&forum_id=2#40743930)