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How often do partners reduce hrs you billed?
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:38 PM Author: Bonkers harsh coffee pot organic girlfriend Like when you spend 10 hrs writing brief, but they only let you bill 8 because it should have only taken 8.
Trying to get an idea of how common this is. Thanks |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:39 PM Author: Thirsty appetizing office depressive seldom, and usually only when clients complain, which is very seldom as well. The greatest myth among summers and first years is that their hours aren't billed 100% to the client. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336077) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:40 PM Author: Supple milky legend indirect expression clients don't complain about specific entries for substantive work on the grounds that something "should have taken" t-3 hours (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336089) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:42 PM Author: Thirsty appetizing office depressive exactly. which is why they get billed 100% for time entered. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336103) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:40 PM Author: Supple milky legend indirect expression only common among 0Ls on here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336083) |
Date: March 8th, 2010 8:41 PM Author: cerise locus place of business almost never unless they have given the client a hard estimate to get the relationship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336097) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:16 PM Author: thriller principal's office I'm sick of the word "relationship" used to mean "business." It's fucking business. They're not making out at the drive-thru. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336977) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:33 PM Author: cerise locus place of business they arent just hoping for the one off business. they want a lasting client who will come back for more deals (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337922) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:43 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma You'd still get credit for the time, they'd just cut the client a break.
But your realization rate will be affected and if that is too low at the end of the year, you may have problems in your review. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:45 PM Author: Tripping trip school Rates are going down ITE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336122) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:46 PM Author: dashing lilac travel guidebook associate This is flat out wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336129) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:56 PM Author: vibrant opaque main people church dood, you just don't understand deeh's brilliant "flame" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336208) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:57 PM Author: Dead Talented Double Fault our rates have gone up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336216) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 8:55 PM Author: effete station I luck out with this... even if they adjust down at my firm, it still counts towards our billables.
... and there's literally next to no work at my firm right now, so... it could be worse. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:10 PM Author: cerise locus place of business for some reason i didnt think you were a lawyer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336349) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:12 PM Author: effete station lol
i get that in real life too bro
it's the highest compliment anyone can pay me |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:18 PM Author: flatulent philosopher-king When I was a first year I had a second year tell me I was the least lawyerly attorney at the firm...then we high fived (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336417) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:21 PM Author: effete station lol, nice bro
All I care about is hitting billables, man - my firm's way more chill than the average firm (it's midsized - ~75 attys), but we've still got dummies who sit at the office twiddling their thumbs for face time... I don't get that. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:29 PM Author: canary market same. I had no clue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337107) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:21 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma Right, though your realization rate will be lower at the end of the year. This is a number they'll pay attention to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336444) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:22 PM Author: effete station I have no clue what this means... the amount I'm billing out, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336456) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:03 PM Author: Bonkers harsh coffee pot organic girlfriend bump. I dont understand this either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336801) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:05 PM Author: dashing lilac travel guidebook associate hours the firm was able to successfully bill divided by the total number of hours you billed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336837) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:07 PM Author: Charismatic ungodly blood rage how much of what you billed that the firm was able to collect on, I believe. basically the money that you actually earned for the firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336861) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:11 PM Author: effete station That's what I was assuming... I've seen the firm accounting sheets, and they do break down on this amount too. Thx buddy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336898) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:12 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma This is correct. Amount collected/amount billed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336915) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:06 PM Author: onyx federal kitty Rare. Happens most often on large cases where 20+ attorneys are billing and they are all billing 30, 40, or 200 hours per month and you bill 1.5. Your 1.5 would tend to be taken off the bill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336308) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:08 PM Author: Motley amber plaza gay wizard All the more reason to pad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336327) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: onyx federal kitty Not on a case like I describe. There you have too many people looking at the bill. If you were given 1.5 hours of work it was likely by a service partner and he is going to want to see that amount of hours and no more. Further, he won't ultimately hear if your hours are struck from the bill. He does not send the bill to the client but he reviews it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336402) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:16 PM Author: Motley amber plaza gay wizard All the more reason to pad.
/thread |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:23 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma No dude, you still get credit for the work you did. If they don't end up billing the client for it, that's a partner decision, but it shouldn't affect your billables. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336466) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:24 PM Author: effete station I think this depends on the firm, from what I've heard from partners at mine... like we don't do it that way, but from what one was telling me there's a number of firms that do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336483) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:15 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma Are you telling me you could spend 5 hours working on something and if a partner arbitrarily decides it was only worth one hour then you lose billable credit for four hours? I think I would go fucking postal on someone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336957) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:17 PM Author: effete station I swear, from what I've heard, I've heard firms in my market do this.
I had a client that got switched to pro bono after I had done close to 20 hours on it... I almost blew a gasket until it got switched back. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:35 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma I don't think I would last in a firm that did this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337170) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:20 PM Author: copper alcoholic shrine headpube Lol at the bullshit in this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336439) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:10 PM Author: Beta Genital Piercing tell us the troof (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336887) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:37 PM Author: Bonkers harsh coffee pot organic girlfriend Whats "realization rate"? is that different from billables. And if it affects your realization rate and thats what matters, then doesnt this have a pretty strong effect.
Thanks again. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:15 PM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma Amount collected/amount billed. Simple example. If you bill 10 hours and partners ultimately collect on 9, that's a 90% realization rate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336972) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:09 PM Author: Charismatic ungodly blood rage for some of our firm's smaller clients that have been with us for years, and know how much certain shit costs, my boss cuts the fuck out of my hours. Then again, I am pretty new at this still, and take forever on most things that I do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336875) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:12 PM Author: effete station That's how it's been explained to me, man... at the start I was trying to be too efficient, and kept messing stuff up. The partner in charge of my group explained to me that he'd dock the hours the client got, and it's expected to be slow at the start. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14336911) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:28 PM Author: Charismatic ungodly blood rage me too. I tried to be "fair" and cut my own hours at first, but then my boss told me to just list everything and he would cut it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337097) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:30 PM Author: effete station Absolute man, it's better that way because, apparently, it's what everyone else does. So it's a huge competitive disadvantage not to, unfortunately. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337111) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:37 PM Author: mahogany frum windowlicker yarmulke This is a classic baby associate mistake. Always bill all of your hours and let the partners sort out how much of that to charge the client. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337975) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:39 PM Author: Marvelous menage psychic i disagree. you have to compensate. if you wrote a 5 page, double-spaced memo and billed 25 hours, unless it's on an extremely esoteric topic, you're screwing yourself. and if it's that hard to write about, you should spend 10 hours and then go see the partner and let him/her know that you're having difficulty and if you should continue or do something different, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14338015) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:42 PM Author: mahogany frum windowlicker yarmulke If you're having difficulties or its taking you a lot longer than anticipated then you should go and tell the partner so as to confirm he or she wants you to keep going. But ultimately you should write down the actual hours you spend. It's the partner's decision how much of the time should be billed to the client. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14338065) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:43 PM Author: Marvelous menage psychic yes, but if you don't go see the partner and you write down 25 hours for a five-page memo, you're screwing yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14338094) |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 1:38 AM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma no you're not. If that's what it took, that's what it took.
If you jacked around for half of it, spent time chatting and on XOXO then of course you don't bill for it. But if you spent the time, did the research, wrote a polished memo and it took 25 hours - they you bill the 25 hours. If the partner doesn't think it was worth the time, they'll sort it out on the bill. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:31 PM Author: Marvelous menage psychic depends on the client, fee arrangement, potential for more work down the line, etc.
most times they'll cut off a dollar amount, not specific hours. and if they do cut hours they'll cut them off the top and not for specific tasks.
n00bs. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:34 PM Author: cerise locus place of business exactly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337927) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:36 PM Author: mahogany frum windowlicker yarmulke At my firm your billable hours aren't reduced as such but the partner might decide for whatever reason to not charge the client for all those hours.
The reports the partners get show them how much each associate has billed in hours and how much of that has been charged. Strictly speaking your target is billable hours not charged out dollars but if there was a lot of your time that wasn't being charged out then questions might be asked. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:37 PM Author: Marvelous menage psychic agree, but if the partner is writing off a lot of your hours you'll be counseled on the issue right away. it's not like a quarter of your hours will be written off and you only find out about it at the end of the year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14337982) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:39 PM Author: mahogany frum windowlicker yarmulke Yes. Unless there is some special fee arrangement with the client then it's pretty unusual to not charge time out as recorded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14338024) |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 1:23 AM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma Beware of partners who are too quick to write off your time. At the firm I was at - certain partners had a bad reputation of doing this particularly to associates who weren't yet aware of it. They did so to keep a particular client of their's happy - but you take the hit as it looks bad in your review (partner's also have to justify why they didn't bill out your hours, but for them, it's easier since they get to say whatever they want). Anyway - you end up looking bad at the end of the year because of it.
This seems to happen on deals that the Partner takes even though he knows there's not enough money in it to really justify the amount of work that will be involved. Often it'll be some task that they'll say spend and hour or two and realistically ends up taking 20 hours.
When you see these partners in the hall - learn to duck and cover. |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 1:27 AM Author: dashing lilac travel guidebook associate I got this vibe from a partner I worked for last summer. Dude quoted the client some absurdly low estimate without doing any research into the client's underlying issues. When I relayed that number to the midlevel associate who was supposed to be supervising me he told me to close the door. He then proceeded to cuss the partner out for being a "dumb fuck lateral piece of shit." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14339275) |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 1:32 AM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma yes - midlevels can be your friends for identifying these partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14339328) |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 2:05 AM Author: chartreuse sweet tailpipe digit ratio Jesus, what kind of piece of shit firm dings associates' hours when partners cut their hours on the bill? Now, that being said, if you're notoriously slow or an overbiller, you're going to get a talk and it's going to hit you in your review or a supervisor may choose not to work with you again. |
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Date: March 9th, 2010 2:13 AM Author: Sable Godawful Theatre Friendly Grandma This. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1245143&forum_id=2#14339561) |