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Do V10 firms really provide more $$$ exit ops than V100
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Date: May 16th, 2012 8:12 PM Author: 180 Blood Rage Tanning Salon If your in a deal driven practice area, that is. Or is this a LS constructed meaningless distinction for copping dem coveted 200k in house jerbs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706472) |
Date: May 16th, 2012 8:14 PM Author: Snowy Erotic Circlehead National Security Agency depends on the quality of your practice group. shit small practice group at v10 will fare worse than broad deep group at v50. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706488) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:11 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line tc, vault is a general guide (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706876) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:18 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena Vault is generally worthless (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707412) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:50 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line Not quite bro. V5 firms generally are of higher quality than V20, they generally handle more high profile deals. Note I said "generally", it is not going to be the case that V5 > V20 on every deal and in every practice area.
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:04 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena the caveats are so extreme as to make vault worthless.
Worry about practice areas much more than global firm prestige. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:16 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line that's true, but V is mostly used by law students who have no idea what they want to do or what the fuck the firms do, helping law students pick a firm is the main purpose of V, and for that it is quite useful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707887) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 8:14 PM Author: floppy ruddy property gaping In corporate, yes. Less so in litigation because Vault isn't as correlated with prestige. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706489) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:13 PM Author: Provocative pit So Munger Tolles' corporate practice has worse exit options than some random V20 NY firm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706885) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:17 PM Author: Racy light psychic antidepressant drug Almost certainly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706906) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:42 PM Author: Cordovan adventurous athletic conference market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707121) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:20 PM Author: Tantric azn yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707430) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:37 PM Author: floppy ruddy property gaping Not on the west coast but for your standard in-house gig in MFH, then yes, it does have worse exit options. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707571) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:19 PM Author: Comical Rigpig on the balance, yes, but there are exceptions. a lot of west coast firms that have low vault rankings (for example, fenwick, cooley, etc) feed into awesome in-house jobs at the major tech companies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20706919) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:38 PM Author: Mentally impaired burgundy shrine cuck What if you're litigation at WLRK? What are your exit options then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707090) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:51 PM Author: Odious misanthropic parlour abovethelaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707201) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:19 PM Author: aphrodisiac corner moar litigiation. nah, wlrk lit probably has good exit opps b/c they handle a lot of m&a/corporate governance type lit, which is basically like being on the deal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707920) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:22 PM Author: Laughsome haunting dysfunction McKinsey & Company partnership. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707950) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 9:41 PM Author: Flushed chapel if by exit, you mean not another law firm, then your exit opps depends almost completely on the clients your practice group serves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707115) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:17 PM Author: Indecent orchestra pit i'm going to advise yes, because when a sweet inhouse gig opens up for interviews, guys from CSM and S&C have a leg up on Dechert fo sho. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707404) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:52 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line sounds like a bunch of BS. it depends on the particular inhouse gig. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707692) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:21 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena Working at many of the shittier V100 firms feels like another planet compared to the major NYC firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707440) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:36 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot explain this please? i'm at a v5 lit and want to know what it's like at lower ranked places. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707556) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:44 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena haha, bro. I lateraled out after getting lathamed in 2009.
It's a joke. I use a computer that was built in 2003 (it's a pentium 4). It's also desktop. I have been on a waitlist for a laptop for 18 months.
I had to drive for a non-billable firm sponsored activity, and they refused to pay out mileage; I had to appeal the decision.
We didn't have free soft drinks in the break room for about 2 months last year because we were over budget on sodas. I wanted to take up a collection since it probably amounted to 20 dollars a week.
The PPP are still more money than most people could dream of, but it's basically a huge penny pinching joke at a lot of places. And all of the partners have MASSIVE inferiority complexes. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:52 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot describe the partners inferiority complexes. aren't a lot of them lateral from top places?
were you noticeably better than the other associates right from the start? |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:54 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line He got lathamed, which means he probably sucked ass. To think V range corresponds to associate competence shows how clueless you are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707701) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:58 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot you don't think there's a correlation between V ranking and associate competence? v5 associates aren't on average smarter, harder working, and better writers than v80 associates? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707741) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:00 PM Author: Cordovan adventurous athletic conference market how DARE you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707754) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:00 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena No. The only reason vault ranking has anything to do with anything is because higher vault firms tend to get more sophisticated work, which gets those associates experience working on sophisticated work, which allows them to be more valuable.
It's about the experience, not the inherent value of the meatbags they bring in. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:26 PM Author: cheese-eating sneaky criminal cuckoldry This is just false. Associate quality even more than partner quality is directly and substantially linked to firm prestige and selectivity.
The average V50-100 associate is a blathering idiot compared to a WLRK/S&C/CSM associate. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:30 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena Agree to disagree...a good portion of mid-levels and seniors at crappier firms are alums from the more prestigious firms.
in my office i would say at least 1/3rd of the mid/senior associates started at a V20.
It doesn't take much to be a competent associate, man. Just a willingness to put in the time. Being a lawyer is easy. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:31 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line this is false. from my experience dealing with these guys, associates at CSW, S&C and the like are just as likely to be blathering idiots as guys at random V100 firm.
now, I don't know these bros in real life, it would well be the case that the average v5 associates are much smarter, but they are indistinguishable on the deals. the bar for biglaw work is so low, anyone with a brain can do it, if one fucks up at it, it's not because he's not smart enough. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:33 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20708043) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:34 PM Author: cyan disgusting set this is particularly false in litigation. there are a ton of litigation associates at s&c and csm who don't know how to do shit because those firms often handle massive discovery-focused litigations. there are way more 3-4 year associates at s&c than many other places who have never written shit or even taken depos.
as others have said, law is easy and being a good lawyer is way more about experience than smarts. lots of people at v5 firms in lit have SHIT experience. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:36 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot lol being smarter = pick up things faster. i'd trust a v5 associate who hasn't taken the lead on an important brief more than the average v100 associate who has. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20708073) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:40 PM Author: cyan disgusting set lol at anything in law being hard to "pick up." also, being smarter only goes so far in picking things up faster. for example, a v5 4th year who's done nothing but discovery for 4 years, being "smarter" than a 4th year at a v50 with good experience, might be able to catch up in 1.5-2 years, but he's still going to be way behind. he's not going to just "pick things up" in the first couple of months because he wrote slightly better LS exams. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20708107) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:39 PM Author: cheese-eating sneaky criminal cuckoldry We will have to agree to disagree, but the V5 people I know can talk on a high level about complex litigation legal concepts and most seem to know the law well. Sure, they may not have taken a dep and might suck on their feet (junior partners at top firms are often terrible in court in my experience), but parsing differences and distinctions in the law they are great at. On the other hand, I have had to explain to more than one shitty V50-100 associate why a 33 act claim is different than a 34 act claim and why it matters. Lower vault firms to shittier cases where it is all fact driven and legal issues matter less in my experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20708096) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:45 PM Author: cyan disgusting set i might have bought this until you tried to say that v50-100 firms try more fact-intesive cases and v5 firms try legally "complex" cases. almost all cases of any variety are essentially fact-intesive cases and involve very few high-level legal concepts. the difference between the cases csm and cahill take are dollar amounts [edit: and amount of FACTS], not legal complexity. that you would say differently makes me think you're a law student.
if you want to go on complexity, i'd say IP litigators beat all and that doesn't correlate with vault range at all.
the only place vault might correlate somewhat is antitrust. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:59 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena yeah, most first years deserve to be fired almost instantly; solid take. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707744) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:58 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena 1) you can't make any constructive criticisms, or ask for any changes from the way they do things without pissing people off...the presumption is you're saying/doing things that way because you think you're better than them with your fancy law firm background. Asking for dual monitors if no one else has them will get you labeled a malcontent.
2) No, a lot of the associates are laterals. Juniors can be pretty shitty, but thats true everywhere. plus its biglaw, not rocket science...it's 80% effort, and about 20% actual thinking, most of which you get simply from experience. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:55 PM Author: Cordovan adventurous athletic conference market what about the work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707705) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:01 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena work is much more interesting at shittier firm as a junior/mid.
fewer massive dilligence projects. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:07 PM Author: Cordovan adventurous athletic conference market could that also be because you're now in your 4th year though? it's not like juniors are capable of doing interesting corporate work
also i guess at a smaller firm the corporate arm isn't subdivided into specialties as much or as rigidly, which would give you exposure to more stuff |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:09 PM Author: cerebral plaza striped hyena nah, I was instantly doing more interesting shit when I started.
Crappier firms get smaller deals, with way less pointless diligence. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 10:55 PM Author: Provocative pit i worked at a prestigious boutique and now work at a typical v100, i've typed out the differences many times. it is really night and day. the tldr is that the typical v100 i am at has much lower expectations in terms of quality of work and is generally a much easier job to sustain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707718) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:01 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot what about the people?
i want to lateral but one of my fears is that the people won't be as cool, funny or nice as the people at my v5. i also like having a lot of young associates around. at a smaller place it might be harder to relate to people since there will be fewer young people. |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:14 PM Author: Provocative pit your fears are well founded. i dont know how to best describe the people at my old firm...but they were a lot more like me. I really liked a lot of them and a few are still good friends today.
the people and culture at the new firm are very different. much more of an emphasis on appearance, dress, following sports, being normal, viewing this as a long term job, not just i need to pay my loans and get the fuck out of law forever. i have plenty of people here to talk to about nba playoffs, but no one to talk about politics or random shit. there are really no aspies or weirdos. any one who is midlevel or senior associate level is generally a huge grinder and striver with expensive tastes. there are a lot of cool and nice people here, but also a lot of cattiness, aggressive personalities and, weirdly enough, arrogance and inflated egos.
i feel like the difference in schools etc hurts me here, people just look at me differently, assume im an aspie nerd, incapable of doing anything besides drafting appellate stuff or staring at IP shit all day |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:17 PM Author: Aquamarine irate juggernaut haunted graveyard yea no arrogance or inflated egos at sullivan or cravath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707900) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:19 PM Author: Provocative pit i didnt work there, i worked at lit firm full of nerds and ex clerk types (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707919) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:20 PM Author: Aquamarine irate juggernaut haunted graveyard right. none at susman or munger either (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707930) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:20 PM Author: Provocative pit only steve (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707937) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:23 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot you'd be surprised at how few people are shitty even at those places. there are always a couple of truly horrible people, but a lot are complete 180s. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707964) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:21 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot FUCK. i really like the "in the trenches" camraderie i have right now. we can all joke about the partners or about our cases and it's all in good fun. i suspect this is hard to do at a smaller place where everyone is serious about their long-term career at the same office. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707943) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:22 PM Author: Aquamarine irate juggernaut haunted graveyard everyone jokes about the asshole partners they work for everywhere (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707959) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:25 PM Author: Thirsty rambunctious friendly grandma idiot not when it's a 40 person office and the associates you work with are all gunning for partner... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707968) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:28 PM Author: Aquamarine irate juggernaut haunted graveyard yea even at most small offices no one is gunning for partner, at least before year 4 or 5 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707993) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:45 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line at bigfirm no one is gunning for ptner until maybe 7 yr or higher (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20708159) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:24 PM Author: Provocative pit there is some of that here, but it's different because as a lateral you're an outsider trying to skip to the front (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707966) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:27 PM Author: Arrogant personal credit line good info breh, you meant your crappier firm has a more rigid dress code and more striver/assholes? How can that be? ain't people supposed to be more relaxed at crap firms? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20707988) |
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Date: May 16th, 2012 11:35 PM Author: Provocative pit idk man, i was pretty surprised by it at first, and then i realized that this place was really all appearance over substance. i guess my old firm prolly had plenty of strivers, like the ones on ptrack, but i didnt really ever interact with those guys socially. but at the new place it's smaller (satellite office) so i know everyone, and there are a lot of grads from lower tier schools who really fought their way into biglaw and are trying to scrap their way into partnership. the arrogance thing is the biggest shock. there were arrogant tools in law school but usually they were the dumbest ones, and there were arrogant people at my old firm, but they were also superfucking smart and pwned me at life. here it is just arrogant megastrivers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#20708063) |
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Date: July 21st, 2020 1:44 PM Author: pearl swashbuckling principal's office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1950247&forum_id=2#40639834) |