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Prof suspended for criticizing TA who shut down gay marriage deb

ate http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/...
fragrant nofapping national security agency
  12/17/14
...
Awkward citrine senate roommate
  12/17/14
Don't even know what to say anymore
laughsome indian lodge digit ratio
  12/17/14
welcome to the shitlib carnival
fragrant nofapping national security agency
  12/17/14
...
Awkward citrine senate roommate
  12/17/14
jesus christ
Pink Turdskin
  12/17/14
*jaw dropped*
crusty philosopher-king
  12/17/14
liberalism used to be the province of scholars. how far lib...
aphrodisiac topaz native queen of the night
  12/17/14
...
Fluffy shitlib
  12/17/14
...
trip theatre
  12/18/14
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=2761222&mc=1...
boyish hospital cumskin
  12/19/14
no words. no words.
Titillating sound barrier
  12/17/14
isn't marquette jesuit? wtf
talking curious pervert
  12/17/14
JFC, Marquette is Catholic too.
Bonkers passionate spot
  12/17/14
marquette is a fucking catholic school
Out-of-control hell
  12/17/14
isnt marquette a catholic school?
Wonderful Old Irish Cottage
  12/17/14
Isnt this a CATHOLIC school?
Rambunctious Irate Milk Locus
  12/17/14
Doesn't this university bear allegiance to a Christian denom...
Exciting Striped Hyena Stage
  12/17/14
lol
Wonderful Old Irish Cottage
  12/17/14
...
crusty philosopher-king
  12/17/14
...
concupiscible iridescent parlour
  12/17/14
is not Marquette a university educating students in the trad...
pearly frozen wrinkle
  12/18/14
I think this was before they became a catholic school
marvelous public bath
  12/17/14
this is just a side-effect of their zero tolerance workplace...
Indigo Institution
  12/17/14
i hope he ties a stack of the harassment pamphlets to his ba...
claret nowag business firm
  12/17/14
So fucking dystopian. "Prof. McAdams, you are summon...
disrespectful diverse location
  12/17/14
Augustinians loling
Yapping mexican
  12/18/14
Wow, this is nuts. Opposing views are NOT OKAY
Sooty masturbator
  12/18/14
I got to think there is something more to this story
multi-colored weed whacker
  12/18/14
(guy who has been in a coma the past 3 years)
laughsome indian lodge digit ratio
  12/18/14
lets keep tabs on this story
multi-colored weed whacker
  12/18/14
Sure, but nothing unusual about it. (1) A guy was "mean...
laughsome indian lodge digit ratio
  12/18/14
criticizing her publicly on his blog was not very politic
Aggressive At-the-ready Mental Disorder
  12/18/14
his criticism is really civil in tone and is geared more to ...
Stirring menage windowlicker
  12/18/14
I don't understand why some people can't even stand hearing ...
erotic twinkling uncleanness
  12/18/14
make no mistake, shitlibs don't give a SHIT about academic f...
Stirring menage windowlicker
  12/18/14
...
laughsome indian lodge digit ratio
  12/18/14
now they just respond with screeching and incredulous snark
ocher beady-eyed forum partner
  12/18/14
yep, it is remarkably effective because to fight back as a s...
Stirring menage windowlicker
  12/18/14
...
Fluffy shitlib
  12/18/14
It's becoming the same in corporate America.
erotic twinkling uncleanness
  12/18/14
...
laughsome indian lodge digit ratio
  12/18/14
This isn't even surprising anymore
Appetizing ivory hall
  12/18/14
...
Fluffy shitlib
  12/18/14
shit like this is why anonymous grading should be used every...
Mind-boggling drab house headpube
  12/18/14
unfortunately anonymous grading doesn't help when a teacher ...
Stirring menage windowlicker
  12/18/14
it would allow you to openly speak your mind without fear th...
Mind-boggling drab house headpube
  12/18/14
this shitprof would literally have an exam like: Describe...
Stirring menage windowlicker
  12/18/14
I meant in class. everyone knows that you're supposed to re...
Mind-boggling drab house headpube
  12/18/14
OH WHAT A GRADING SYSTEM
Stirring menage windowlicker
  12/18/14
despite what they say the left has always had this sort of s...
Hot garrison
  12/18/14
Any counterarguments are deemed to be a result of hatred, ph...
erotic twinkling uncleanness
  12/18/14
"We need to start a dialogue!" *Starts a dialog...
Sepia hairless cuckold stage
  12/18/14
They really meant a monologue.
erotic twinkling uncleanness
  12/18/14
Open Letter in Support of Cheryl Abbate Dean of the K...
multi-colored weed whacker
  12/18/14
"Perhaps just as important, the harassment she is recei...
laughsome indian lodge digit ratio
  12/18/14
oh shit this guy is getting the Leiter treatment over this?
Jet Beta Property Prole
  12/18/14
so this guy gets a paid vacation and relief from "all t...
Adventurous Violent Telephone Piazza
  12/18/14
literally getting paid to not interact with Marquette studen...
vivacious market factory reset button
  12/18/14


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:49 PM
Author: fragrant nofapping national security agency

ate

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/17/marquette-suspends-profs-teaching-orders-him-off-campus/

What do you shitlibs think of this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952623)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:54 PM
Author: Awkward citrine senate roommate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952658)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:54 PM
Author: laughsome indian lodge digit ratio

Don't even know what to say anymore

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952661)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:56 PM
Author: fragrant nofapping national security agency

welcome to the shitlib carnival

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952679)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:58 PM
Author: Awkward citrine senate roommate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952691)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:58 PM
Author: Pink Turdskin

jesus christ

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952698)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 9:59 PM
Author: crusty philosopher-king

*jaw dropped*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952707)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:07 PM
Author: aphrodisiac topaz native queen of the night

liberalism used to be the province of scholars. how far libs have fallen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952775)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:12 PM
Author: Fluffy shitlib



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952821)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 7:53 AM
Author: trip theatre



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955345)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2014 5:27 PM
Author: boyish hospital cumskin

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=2761222&mc=11&forum_id=2

dummbcunt Cheryl Abbate (Marquette Uni) cant tolerate dissent

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=2761223&mc=1&forum_id=1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26963868)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:09 PM
Author: Titillating sound barrier

no words. no words.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952794)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:11 PM
Author: talking curious pervert

isn't marquette jesuit? wtf

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952816)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:12 PM
Author: Bonkers passionate spot

JFC, Marquette is Catholic too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952823)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:12 PM
Author: Out-of-control hell

marquette is a fucking catholic school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952825)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:13 PM
Author: Wonderful Old Irish Cottage

isnt marquette a catholic school?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952834)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:13 PM
Author: Rambunctious Irate Milk Locus

Isnt this a CATHOLIC school?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952836)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:15 PM
Author: Exciting Striped Hyena Stage

Doesn't this university bear allegiance to a Christian denomination?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952847)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:15 PM
Author: Wonderful Old Irish Cottage

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952854)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:20 PM
Author: crusty philosopher-king



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952895)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:22 PM
Author: concupiscible iridescent parlour



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952913)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:32 AM
Author: pearly frozen wrinkle

is not Marquette a university educating students in the tradition of Ignatiation Spirituality?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955696)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:18 PM
Author: marvelous public bath

I think this was before they became a catholic school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952878)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:23 PM
Author: Indigo Institution

this is just a side-effect of their zero tolerance workplace violence kaw, any complaint will trigger this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952918)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:27 PM
Author: claret nowag business firm

i hope he ties a stack of the harassment pamphlets to his back and lugs them around campus bemoaning his rape

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952949)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 17th, 2014 10:32 PM
Author: disrespectful diverse location

So fucking dystopian.

"Prof. McAdams, you are summoned for a Conversation at 10:00a on December 15, 2014 regarding this institution's Guiding Values."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26952994)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 4:07 AM
Author: Yapping mexican

Augustinians loling

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26954886)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 4:07 AM
Author: Sooty masturbator

Wow, this is nuts. Opposing views are NOT OKAY

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26954889)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 7:59 AM
Author: multi-colored weed whacker

I got to think there is something more to this story

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955352)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:06 AM
Author: laughsome indian lodge digit ratio

(guy who has been in a coma the past 3 years)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955621)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:09 AM
Author: multi-colored weed whacker

lets keep tabs on this story

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955628)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:11 AM
Author: laughsome indian lodge digit ratio

Sure, but nothing unusual about it. (1) A guy was "mean" to a woman in a work environment and (2) he supported the right of anti-gay marriage advocates to voice their views. Those are two things that are very NOT OK in America 2014 so there's really nothing to be incredulous about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955635)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:29 AM
Author: Aggressive At-the-ready Mental Disorder

criticizing her publicly on his blog was not very politic

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955690)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:50 AM
Author: Stirring menage windowlicker

his criticism is really civil in tone and is geared more to draw attention to the issue and point out the logical inconsistency after the student tried to go through the academic hierarchy with his concerns and was blown off

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2014/11/marquette-philosophy-instructor-gay.html

he did nothing wrong, this is a standard case of shitlib MAF and yet another person is getting loaded onto the boxcars with shitlibs chanting NEVER AGAIN NEVER AGAIN

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955768)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 8:17 AM
Author: erotic twinkling uncleanness

I don't understand why some people can't even stand hearing or engaging opposing viewpoints (assuming the kid wasn't actually saying anything hateful). It shouldn't make you uncomfortable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955365)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:54 AM
Author: Stirring menage windowlicker

make no mistake, shitlibs don't give a SHIT about academic freedom or encouraging debate. the only reason to allow apposing viewpoints is if you think it will provide some insight into higher truth or whatever. academic shitlibs are not trying to clarify and strengthen their positions by responding to criticisms. they are trying to ensure that the only voices that get heard are their own.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955783)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:00 AM
Author: laughsome indian lodge digit ratio



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955812)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:05 AM
Author: ocher beady-eyed forum partner

now they just respond with screeching and incredulous snark

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955837)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:11 AM
Author: Stirring menage windowlicker

yep, it is remarkably effective because to fight back as a student or prof you have to withstand ostracism and possible suspension/job loss. and for what? to argue in class that maybe we shouldn't have mandatory peggings?

classic monopoly issue: the benefits to shitlibs as a whole are tremendous and easy to protect by screeching/snark, but the potential gain for any individual fighting back is very small.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955867)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:19 AM
Author: Fluffy shitlib



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955903)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:28 AM
Author: erotic twinkling uncleanness

It's becoming the same in corporate America.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955930)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:29 AM
Author: laughsome indian lodge digit ratio



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955935)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 9:18 AM
Author: Appetizing ivory hall

This isn't even surprising anymore

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955502)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:20 AM
Author: Fluffy shitlib



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955904)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:28 AM
Author: Mind-boggling drab house headpube

shit like this is why anonymous grading should be used everywhere.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955681)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 10:58 AM
Author: Stirring menage windowlicker

unfortunately anonymous grading doesn't help when a teacher is an all-out shitlib carny.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955805)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:22 AM
Author: Mind-boggling drab house headpube

it would allow you to openly speak your mind without fear that your grades would get dinged as a result.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955916)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:30 AM
Author: Stirring menage windowlicker

this shitprof would literally have an exam like:

Describe the social and moral benefits that would accrue to the United States if homosexuals and other marginalized groups were no longer repressed and discriminated against.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955936)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:33 AM
Author: Mind-boggling drab house headpube

I meant in class. everyone knows that you're supposed to regurgitate the prof's shitthoughts back at them on exams.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955949)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:38 AM
Author: Stirring menage windowlicker

OH WHAT A GRADING SYSTEM

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955975)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:14 AM
Author: Hot garrison

despite what they say the left has always had this sort of strong fascist streak. they tend to be so convinced of the rightness of their motives and intentions that they're convinced that people who disagree with them are basically evil and not worth listening too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955880)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:26 AM
Author: erotic twinkling uncleanness

Any counterarguments are deemed to be a result of hatred, phobia or ignorance, and not worth listening to.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955922)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:20 AM
Author: Sepia hairless cuckold stage

"We need to start a dialogue!"

*Starts a dialogue*

"That is NOT okay!"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955911)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:29 AM
Author: erotic twinkling uncleanness

They really meant a monologue.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955933)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:38 AM
Author: multi-colored weed whacker

Open Letter in Support of Cheryl Abbate

Dean of the Klingler College of Arts and Sciences, Marquette University, Dr. Richard C. Holz, richard.holz@marquette.edu

Interim Provost, Marquette University, Dr. Margaret Faut Callahan, margaret.callahan@marquette.edu.

Dear Dean Holz and Provost Callahan:

I write to express my deep concern about the behavior of Professor McAdams and to offer my support to Ms Abbate over the events reported here: http://dailynous.com/…/philosophy-grad-student-target-of-p…/

The one-sided public attack on a graduate student by a professor over classroom behavior is a threat to academic freedom. It does not appear to me, from reading the blog post of Professor McAdams, that he made any attempt to get Abbate’s side of the story. Instead he took up the motivated report of a student and based an attack on Abbate solely on that student’s testimony. http://mu-warrior.blogspot.in/…/marquette-philosophy-instru…

I hope that you will offer your support to Ms Abbate and take steps to ensure that Professor McAdams learns the rudiments of professional behavior in the future.

Yours respectfully,

John Protevi (PhD, Philosophy, Loyola University Chicago 1990)

Chair, Department of French Studies

Phyllis M Taylor Professor of French Studies

Professor of Philosophy

416 Hodges Hall

Louisiana State University

Baton Rouge LA 70803 USA

------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen the libelous posts made by a tenured professor at Marquette and the misogynistic harassment Ms. Abbate has received as a consequence and feel that that university should act at this point to protect her as both a student and a woman. As a late stage graduate student in a field known to be very unwelcoming to women in general, her career is clearly in jeopardy from the unsubstantiated comments made by the tenured professor and the conservative news sources he has contacted to support his attack. Perhaps just as important, the harassment she is receiving as a result targets her as a woman, meaning this has now reached the level of a hate crime. Misogynist attacks are orchestrated and are intended to frighten and silence women as a group. It is tactic that is unfortunately very effective. I believe it is the responsibility of the university to protect the safety of minority students and faculty from discriminatory and violent groups.

It appears that the campaign against Ms. Abbate is problematic for a number of reasons, and it concerns me that nothing has been done to protect her or to end the abuse. I hope for the sake of ethics in academia and the safety of women in university systems that Marquette acts and acts quickly.

Corey Lee Wrenn, M.S.

Instructor of Sociology

Colorado State University

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Dean Holz and Provost Callahan,

Doubtless you have learned of the case of Cheryl Abbate, her student, and the unprofessional behavior of Professor McAdams. I write to express strong support of Ms. Abbate and to encourage you to demonstrate your support, as well.

The current case is especially distressing as a graduate student, as a gay man, and as someone raised in a devout Catholic family. I am a doctoral candidate (at a different institution) who studies political and social theory. I study politics because I am interested in who has power, how they wield it over others, and with what ethical consequences.

The current case at your institution cannot be ignored precisely because it demonstrates, in the clearest terms, how those in positions of power (both formal and informal) can bully those who do not have the same power. And let us call Professor McAdams’ behavior by it’s right name: bullying.

Professor McAdams’ behavior is unprofessional and counts as bullying not because not because of the substance of his views on gay rights (which are not even in question), but because it is designed to be both aggressive and intimidating toward a graduate student in a different department, violating the values and traditions of graduate education. In his bullying, Professor McAdams exposes Ms. Abbate’s pedagogy to the risks of public arbitration while taking on none of those risks himself.

Smear campaigns on unofficial campus blogs are easy and juvenile—they are made worse when they recount only one actor’s version of events (tangentially, the recording of that single account is most likely illegal). I encourage you to take steps to ensure the professor understands key tenets of academic freedom, and in so doing represents Marquette in a way befitting its reputation.

Respectfully,

Ryan A. Schowen

Ph.D. Candidate

Public Policy and Social Change

Union Institute and University

http://proteviblog.typepad.com/protevi/2014/11/open-letter-in-support-of-cheryl-abbate.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26955977)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:42 AM
Author: laughsome indian lodge digit ratio

"Perhaps just as important, the harassment she is receiving as a result targets her as a woman, meaning this has now reached the level of a hate crime."

Convene the grand jury!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26956001)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:44 AM
Author: Jet Beta Property Prole

oh shit this guy is getting the Leiter treatment over this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26956007)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 11:45 AM
Author: Adventurous Violent Telephone Piazza

so this guy gets a paid vacation and relief from "all teaching duties and all other faculty activities, including, but not limited to, advising, committee work, faculty meetings and any activity that would involve your interaction with Marquette students, faculty and staff."

oh noes this is as bad as a police officer being investigated

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26956014)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2014 12:53 PM
Author: vivacious market factory reset button

literally getting paid to not interact with Marquette students IRL, sounds like heaven to me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2759573&forum_id=2#26956283)