Can you teach UG with a JD?
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 27th, 2004 12:15 AM Author: Light location puppy
does this happen? i am guessing very rarely if at all.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#820752) |
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Date: June 27th, 2004 8:14 PM Author: Yapping razzle-dazzle market
JD stands for "Juris Doctor", not "Doctorate". People with JD's are not in a position to go around calling themselves "Dr." as a MD or PhD grad may do freely. A JD, like an MBA, is a *professional* degree (read: trade school), it's not an academic degree.
PhD's undergo years of intensive independant research (sometimes 8-10 yrs), ultimate culminating in a dissertation which must be defended by a panel of scholars in the field. JD's have no such exhaustive requirement.
So basically no, JD's do not meet the USNews "PhD" criteria, and in answering the OP, it's rare to find JD's teaching at universities, and if they are, it's only as adjuncts or visiting profs. JD's cannot be tenured professors, as they do not have the proper credentials.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#824865) |
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Date: June 27th, 2004 10:08 PM Author: cerebral slate boiling water hall
You sound as passionate at Onizuka on this topic. I didn't advocate calling them "doctors," and I'm not stupid - I know what PhD's go through. And as far as their 5+ years of getting the degree being "intensive," I guess that just depends on what their PhD, where they got it, and how much of a slack-ass their advisor allowed them to be.
Quote from USNews on the topic is this: "We also weigh the proportion of professors with the highest degree in their fields (15 percent of the score)" I'll bet that the law schools and undergrads that fill out USNews surveys count a JD as the "highest" degree in the field notwithstanding the LLM and SJD - after all law schools wouldn't want to sacrifice points.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/about/04rank_brief.php
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#825681) |
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Date: June 27th, 2004 10:15 PM Author: turquoise rough-skinned meetinghouse old irish cottage
The JD is clearly not the highest degree in the field. It's the LOWEST. This should be obvious.
"after all law schools wouldn't want to sacrifice points."
They don't. The law school rankings don't include this component.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#825718) |
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Date: June 27th, 2004 10:25 PM Author: cerebral slate boiling water hall
I was wrong about the law rankings. You're right.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#825778) |
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Date: June 28th, 2004 7:15 PM Author: Yapping razzle-dazzle market
Keep in mind that America is the only country where a law degree is considered a "graduate" degree. In most countries law in an undergrad concentration, and people can practice law fresh out of college.
Not that this adds much to the discussion, but its just meant to point out that a garden-variety law degree (without an LLM or SJD specialization) isn't necessarily anything to tip your hat at, and certainly doesn't garner as much respect as those who devote the years to acquiring a PhD.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#833792) |
Date: June 27th, 2004 2:55 PM Author: talented ladyboy useless brakes
i never had a JD as a prof, nor had i heard of any prof at my UG who taught with just a JD.
but i know the local CUNY allows it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#822956) |
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Date: June 27th, 2004 3:01 PM Author: talented ladyboy useless brakes
i think it's because of USNWR, to be honest.
yep, one of my buddies is a super-senior at hunter. i was thinking about CSI though - what a FTT that school is.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#822992) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 7:01 PM Author: talented ladyboy useless brakes
academically speaking, it's an absolute toilet. OK campus though. but in terms of academics, it's like a 4 year community college.
open enrollment means half the school is in remedial classes.
it had USNWR highest acceptance rate at 100% for a number of years. it's the Cooley of UG's.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#844815) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 7:26 PM Author: Pink 180 knife
haha I know a guy at work who just graduated.
he told me his friend is going to Touro, and this guy is pretty excited since "he only got a C+ on the LSAT."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845007) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:27 PM Author: talented ladyboy useless brakes
"he only got a C+ on the LSAT."
classic.
that's like something my old man would say. he still believes one of his friend's kids goes to Princeton Law.
i know someone that got rejected from CUNY Law. it's funny how different the perspective on this board is from real life.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845547) |
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Date: June 30th, 2004 11:02 AM Author: Adventurous Geriatric Ratface
I know what you mean, especially when it comes to arguing about undergrad. Attending and/or graduating from college is a pretty big triumph for lots of people I know.
All the same, I have never heard of anyone getting rejected from CUNY Law.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#849878) |
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Date: June 30th, 2004 4:04 PM Author: talented ladyboy useless brakes
yep, apparently it's possible. even FTT's want a 145 LSAT and a 3.0ish GPA nowadays. apaprently 70% of their applicants don't have that.
IMHO, getting rejected from CUNY Law is quite possibly the least pretigious thing on earth.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#853864) |
Date: June 27th, 2004 3:06 PM Author: Curious Home
There were a couple of JDs that taught classes at my UG, but they were adjunct, and their classes were highly specialized.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#823037) |
Date: June 28th, 2004 3:02 PM Author: self-absorbed trailer park quadroon
yeah, occasionally JDs teach. the Dean of my residential college, who taught an English seminar and was Director of Undergraduate Studies for the "Special Divisional Major" (make your own major dept) graduated from Columbia w/ her JD. i went to yale. while admittedly her role was more administrative/counseling than academic, she still did teach. i assume she wasnt tenured (most deans aren't).
she is now affirmative action dean at columbia.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#831184) |
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Date: June 28th, 2004 3:20 PM Author: Navy house
yeah, a lot of college these days have AA deans they sometimes call "diversity" or "multicutural awareness" deans.
it's total bs.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#831400) |
Date: June 28th, 2004 3:04 PM Author: House-broken bearded stage
Yes, you can, and I had several UG professors with just JDs.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#831207) |
Date: June 28th, 2004 3:21 PM Author: Navy house
if you want to be a tenure track prof, you have to get a PhD in addition to getting a JD.
no reputable school would let you teach with just a JD.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#831416) |
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Date: June 28th, 2004 7:18 PM Author: Yapping razzle-dazzle market
You sure they weren't tenured at UVA Law, and just taught some specialized UG classes on the side as adjuncts? I'm highly skeptical that a school as reputable as UVA would hire a JD to be a tenure-track prof in any major dept. (like PolySci, History, etc).
Citing to a link would be nice.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#833803) |
Date: June 29th, 2004 6:36 PM Author: effete temple
By the way, universities can grant tenure to whomever the hell they want.
In the vast majority of cases, that's PhDs -- but not always.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#844537) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 6:59 PM Author: effete temple
"if you want to be a tenure track prof, you have to get a PhD in addition to getting a JD."
You can look for that one all by yourself.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#844786) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:03 PM Author: effete temple
It also says "no reputable school," dipshit.
If you don't grasp the implications of that, you're not bright enough for this conversation to be worth the energy it takes to depress my short-stroke laptop keys.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845345) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:21 PM Author: turquoise rough-skinned meetinghouse old irish cottage
It's funny how quickly you resort to ad homs when somebody challenges one of your many worthless and unhelpful posts.
There's nothing in Nutella's post that indicates that anything you've wrote in your OP is news to her. However, as ewelty points out, there is a post by someone else above that does state that JD's can't be tenured. You could have simply pointed that out instead of behaving like a petulant jackass.
However given the frequency with which you post non sequiturs, I'm beginning to doubt whether you ever bother to read more than the thread title before dumping your verbal diarrhea.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845482) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:24 PM Author: effete temple
"You could have simply pointed that out instead of behaving like a petulant jackass"
The conclusion would have been the same. I'm glad you agree.
"given the frequency with which you post non sequiturs"
I don't think you know what "non sequitur" means. Please, never again use a term until you know what it means or you are inquiring about its meaning.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845516) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:25 PM Author: turquoise rough-skinned meetinghouse old irish cottage
It means you post shit that is irrelevant to the discussion or debate at hand.
EDIT: I suppose you will object that this is not the technical definition of "non sequitur," but it is in line with the common usage.
HTH
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845530) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:27 PM Author: effete temple
No, actually it doesn't mean that. It refers specifically to conclusions that do not follow logically from the preceding premises. In short, it means "does not follow." It does not mean "irrelevant." It comments on logical relationships among propositions.
I told you to look it up.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845556) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:33 PM Author: turquoise rough-skinned meetinghouse old irish cottage
Unlike "irregardless," which is a mistaken and unnecessary conflation of two words, use of the term "non sequitur" in this context is, in my view, not an error but a reasonable extension of the original meaning.
I'd love to argue about this more, but I'm off now. Flame away (not that you need any encouragement).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845604) |
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Date: June 29th, 2004 8:42 PM Author: effete temple
"...not an error but a reasonable extension of the original meaning."
No, if you're going to use Latin terms about logic, don't try to make yourself look smarter than you are. Don't fuck up and misuse words. Sometimes someone will call you on your bullshit.
"I'd love to argue about this more, but I'm off now."
Do be sure to bring back some more misused logic terms when you return.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#845688) |
Date: June 29th, 2004 11:31 PM Author: Twisted pearl lodge
I had an adjunct at Iowa State that taught a course in the accounting department called legal environment of business that was required for all business majors that only had a JD.
I think its more common than you think.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#846991) |
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Date: July 1st, 2004 1:21 AM Author: Twisted pearl lodge
If you mean the chicks in the state of Iowa in general, they're very average. Typical midwestern girls. Now at both major state universities, Iowa and Iowa State their are loads of hotties though Iowa seems to have a deeper roster of sluts because the majority of their student body comes from Chicago.
I actually live in Chicago now and am disappointed by the women here, don't get me wrong there some hotties, but its certainly not better than it was in undergrad, except the bitches are more stuck-up here.
Hope this helps
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#859028) |
Date: June 30th, 2004 10:22 AM Author: arousing shrine
at most research I-type universities (top 50 or so), you need a phd to teach in the traditional arts and sciences depts. there may be exceptions here and there, but you'll be at an enormous disadvantage competing with the hordes of phd students who've been preparing for that job for the past decade. the same holds true for most top-tier LACs.
i don't know much about community colleges and comprehensive universities. it is probably easier to teach there with a jd. but why would you want to? no time to do research, weaker student body, and really low salaries.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#849322) |
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Date: June 30th, 2004 11:58 AM Author: House-broken bearded stage
Well, at NYU for instance:
http://www.law.nyu.edu/ils/facbios.html
Please, give it a rest.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#850689) |
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Date: June 30th, 2004 12:02 PM Author: arousing shrine
this is not a traditional arts and sciences dept. it is an interdisciplinary unit that draws professors from other departments (sociology, polisci) and schools (law). you'll notice that virtually all the profs who only have a JD have a primary appointment with the law school. the ones with PhDs and PhD/JDs are drawn from FAS-type depts.
i don't mean to perpetuate an argument here, just trying to be helpful that's all.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#850747) |
Date: June 30th, 2004 4:07 PM Author: Racy halford
Not that this applies to most would-be UG teachers, but at Harvard, profs in any field can be appointed University Professors, which means they can teach in any school, including the college. Michelman and Tribe, who only have JDs, are University Professors. Horwitz, with only a JD, has taught a course in Harvard's undergrad Core.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#853909) |
Date: July 2nd, 2004 10:30 AM Author: Stirring Faggot Firefighter Heaven
Many "top" UGs have a con. law class at the UG level which can be and often are taught by JDs.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#870298) |
Date: July 2nd, 2004 2:31 PM Author: sickened ebony school cafeteria
We're gettin' a lot of love from jd2b lately
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#872825) |
Date: April 19th, 2005 5:24 AM Author: provocative infuriating principal's office
there's a constitutional law course at my school taught by a prof. from the faculty of law & a lawyer. It happens. It's also a very popular course because all the prelaws take it expecting to get the prof. to write a rec. As it's a top law school as well, it would be quite a good rec...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#2590991) |
Date: April 19th, 2005 11:53 AM Author: Azure Spot
off/topic but related:
does anyone have statistics regarding % of LAW PROFESSORS that have PhD in addition to JD? what % just have a JD?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#2591603) |
Date: April 19th, 2005 12:56 PM Author: thriller red associate site
Basically, if you want to teach undergrad, don't get a JD. Only get a JD if you actually want to be a lawyer. A lot of people on this board are still under the illusion that a JD is a flexible degree. They will learn soon enough.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#2591943) |
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Date: April 19th, 2005 1:02 PM Author: Azure Spot
you can do plenty of things with a JD
like write novels about law cases in a contrived and predictable format that will sell millions!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=50152&forum_id=2#2591974) |
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